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He's more experienced than Luke, has the better weapon as I think it has a dual phase function, he is more durable, has better stamina, and in this battle will actually be using his force powers. Also I think we all know how ESB battle between them ended. Just saying as a reference.
Luke was more experienced in Rotj. Luke is more powerful and beat the shit out of Vader as soon as he pissed him off. Vader is also much slower than Luke. To never beat Luke and he has the powers as well.
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He was more e perished than his ESB self. ROTJ Luke was more experienced than ESB. Didn't 3 years pass before they met again. Well with this he won't get pissed of as with this I'm assuming vader knows about Leia and there is no Emperor to pose for or anything. That didn't seem to affect him in ESB when Luke was actually trying and it seemed like vader had some speed on him in ESB I don't see him getting even worse after 3 years. Vader has the more honed and better powers. I'm not sure Luke has a powerful force sheild so couldn't Vader just force choke him.
it's unanswerable. we'll never know if luke could have squashed vader in rotj or vice versa. probably because neither was trying to kill the other...except when luke flipped out and almost turned the darkside, but i think vader was just caught off guard by such ferocity. anyway, both sides could argue that the other was holding back and thus they only appeared weaker. stalemate.
__________________ Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.
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Just because you have the same force powers, it doesn't mean you can apply them with the same amount of magnitude. Vader has more experience than Luke, and Vader has shown more sophistication with the ability and the force in general. So with that I say Vader is more powerful. That doesn't mean he's going to get angered in this one though.
Both were holding back but Luke did state that he did not believe his father would destroy him. Luke would win in a saber combat but all out he would lose to Vader in an all out battle due to Vader's superiority in the use of the force and battle experience.
we dont know that vader was more powerful with the force by that point. thankfully nobody counted luke's midichlorians, so we never will. however yoda and obiwan seemed confident in his abilities, and they trained anakin as well, so they were experts on the matter. luke did a lot of training in the year after esb, and vader even said that his skills were "complete' and that he was powerful.
i also have to disagree about the saber dueling. vader liked to utilize the force with his fighting tecnique (remember when he threw it at luke like a boomerang). who knows what dirty tricks he had hiding up his sleeve for a real fight to the death. im not putting vader over as the winner, just pointing out that there's too many unknowns to judge.
its unresolvable, but mostly due to the initial point that they both went into the fight with no intention of killing the other.
__________________ Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.
Last edited by Bashar Teg on Jun 25th, 2015 at 02:10 AM
By Luke's own words we have an idea that Luke felt that it was in his father's power to kill him if he wanted to. Was Luke ready to face Vader I agree but more powerful no. Luke had potential while Vader's potential was realized. Then again we have Luke's own words.
The most powerful does not always win but Vader was a trained solider and really there is no way Luke would beat Vader due to his experience in combat and realized power.
As for the saber battle by your own words Vader would most likely use some of his experience to do a dirty trick but to fight Luke straight in a saber contest he would lose as he did in the movie. If this was Anakin that would be a different story.
i dont recall luke saying anything to suggest that. i remember him telling vader that he wouldnt fight, and that vader would thus have to decide whether or not to kill him, but no statement of any kind to compare/appraise his power.
agreed that in a 'fair' (for lack of a better word) saber duel, luke would slice him up.
__________________ Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.
Last edited by Bashar Teg on Jun 25th, 2015 at 02:26 AM
Gender: Male Location: Heavens of Mystic
The Birth Place
Well if you look at Luke's force choke and Vaders Force choke. Luke while being a Jedi used it on two opponents. Vader used it on two as well however he used on with his hand and the other with his mind. In Star Wars the new hope [url]https://youtu.be/aV2DLkDPwM8 0:53-1:10 he force chokes one of his Admirals without hand gestures and not even in the same room. Luke hasn't demonstrated that power.
Force choke is actually a powerful ability whether you think so or not. It has been used on many different scales on a different number of opponents at once. Whether he is or not depends on whether or not he goes into that angry state.
we dont know that force choking is effective against another powerful force user. in fact of all the jedi/sith fights (regarding film eps 1-6) there has never been a single attempt at it. ...though im not familiar with the clone wars stuff, or if its admissible.
__________________ Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.
had to watch the fight again. good one, i totally forgot about that. a flaw in the evidence however is that he does the levitating before the choke, so it could be that this left obiwan vulnerable where he otherwise wouldn't be. could also just be a delayed reaction out of shock and he was being choked from the start. tough to tell.
1:44
__________________ Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage.
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I'd have to go with a delayed reaction to the shock. Also kenobi is known to have a weak force wall as he is known for getting ragdolled on many occasions. Also Dooku is known for using force lift in conjunction with his force abilities as seen by how he tossed Anakin with lightning with TK in AOTC, how he repeatedly pushed Savage oppres with lightning, also used with force push, how he lifted and chocked the queen in TCW of the slave empire, and how he shocked and levitated Ventress and the nightsisiters in TCW.
So it took Vader that long and yet you say that gets him the win ?? Why wouldn't he use the force choke against Obi then ? You honestly are borderline slow to suggest a mere force choke beats Luke.