Similar theme to a few other recent threads. Pretty straightforward question. Which of the MCU Defenders do you consider the most heroic?
So, options are:
Daredevil
Iron Fist
Luke Cage
Jessica Jones
I personally feel it's between Luke and Matt, but kind of on the fence, because both have flaws that prevent them from being the ideal hero. Luke, especially in s2, can be rather stubborn and cocky sometimes, even when taking a step back might be a better plan. And Matt is actually somewhat of a sadist. It's pretty clear from a lot of his fights that he enjoys inflicting violence against bad guys. Especially if he's in a bad mood.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying a good fight. Thors the same. Same with Wonder Woman. I don't think any of it actually stems from wanting to inflict pain. They probably just love what they do.
Matt is the most heroic defender, and IMO he's more heroic than a good amount of Avengers. He's a a character who fights for justice both in and out of the costume, and thats admirable.
There is a bit of a difference between enjoying a good fight and what Matt sometimes does though. Don't get me wrong. I love the character. But sometimes, he does go a bit overboard. Like during DD s2, after the Punisher trial went totally to shit and Foggy and Matt had it out with each other. He gets into a fight with a couple of Hand ninjas after that. And he clearly could have taken them down very quickly if he wanted to, but he let them get back up just so that he could keep beating on them, and then eventually ends the fight by collapsing a bunch of scaffolding on one of them IIRC, which was not even remotely necessary. He just wanted to vent, and those guys were unlucky enough to land on his radar.
That being said, based on his various conversations with the local priest, he is aware of this fact. So, he does at least acknowledge that he has some flaws.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
That's a good point, and something I completely forgot about. In that case he probably does get carried away in his anger sometimes. I'd still say he's more heroic than Cage though because of Cages "I'm no hero and mind my own business, just don't mess with me and mines" attitude.
On the other hand, Cage seems to be a little more sympathetic towards his enemies since he usually just resorts to a slap on the head to knock them out (with the exception of that guy who beat his family; Cage was a step away from killing that dude and only stopped because the family was watching). He actively limits himself so he doesn't seriously hurt people. It's also important to note that Cage needs to limit himself more than DD does since DD operates on a more even playing field. Cage could seriously hurt anyone punching at a fraction of his actual strength so he has to have self imposed limits.
It's also worth mentioning that I haven't seen Luke Cage season 2 though (I'm two episodes in), so if he improves on the hero front there I'm not aware.
I actually think it's Danny. I mean, he can be a jerk and is still pretty immature but I feel like his heart is in the right place, more righteous anyway than the other 3.
Thing with Danny is he has one very big black mark against his name. Literally abandoning his post as the Iron Fist right after he got it in favour of pursuing a personal agenda. And we saw at the end of IF that it had consequences. Also, his actions helped push Davos to the dark side, so to speak. But I think we will see a better Danny in IF s2.
At least I am pretty sure we can all agree it's definitely not Jessica lol, especially after s2 of her show.
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I'd say Jessica is out of the running, no offense to anyone who likes Jessica, I really like her, but come on, it's obvious. If something's happening she can't help but get involved, but she's reluctant to unless she get pulled into it.
The rest have character flaws. Danny is immature and there are things he runs away from dealing with. Luke can be cocky and stubborn and shit as shown in season 2 of Luke Cage [SPOILER - highlight to read]: As evidenced in his conversation with Claire where she got the **** out of there, and again at the end when he put himself in a precarious position as the self-appointed "sheriff". Matt repeatedly lies to his friends, albiet with the intent of keeping them safe but he certainly goes overboard with it. They also all have some violence and anger issues, Iron Fist going ham on the drunk dude and then attacking the other defenders and often losing his cool under pressure, Luke Cage beating the shit out of that dude and punching a hole in Claire's wall when she confronted him about her concerns, and Matt's violent and sadistic tendencies have already been mentioned.
For me what separates Matt from the others in regards to his character flaws is that he's much more willing to grapple with them and question himself. Those scenes in every season he appears in where he goes to confession are very important for demonstrating this fact. He struggles with the nature of what he does, actively seeks out guidance and counsel for parts of himself and moral conundrums he's struggling with, and repents and begs forgiveness for what he does that crosses a line. Luke [SPOILER - highlight to read]: had his girlfriend, someone close to him actively confronting him about his flaws and he wasn't taking her criticism seriously until he drove her off by punching a hole in her wall, and Danny seems to lack the self-control to actually be more self-critical.
For that reason I'd consider Matt Murdock the most heroic defender.
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To be fair to Luke, the Cockroach incident was a pretty extreme case. He came in there while the guy was busy beating up his wife and kid. Because we know that's not how Luke normally operates. He often just disarms opponents before slapping them on the head for the quick KO. But because he is so much stronger than a normal human, if his control even slips an inch, he could mess someone up horribly.
I mean even with Cockroach, it's not like he was riddling the guy with haymakers or anything. He was mostly just throwing him around (though he did choke him a bit towards the end), and that was enough to leave the guy a broken, bloody mess. If Luke had to lay into Cockroach like Matt sometimes lays into guys, there would be little more than bloody mush left for the crime scene guys to clean up.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Gender: Male Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Fair enough, I still think Matt is more self-critical and willing to grapple with his own character flaws though.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
I'm surprised no one brought up the biggest black mark of Cage's character, namely [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Cage coming within moments of murdering the man he thought accidentally killed his wife. He came very close to murdering a civilian who was powerless to fight back with his bare hands in the name of revenge.
I don't even think Jessica has a black spot in her career that big.
Jessica was pretty awful in s2 of her own show. Like literally to the point of [SPOILER - highlight to read]: giving some people a pass on murder (her psychotic, superhuman killer mother, and even Trish to a large degree. Giving someone the silent treatment is not adequate punishment for kidnapping someone, which triggered a chain of events that saw other innocent people die, and then finally killing someone in cold blood herself) while kicking others to the curb for far less (like Malcolm, who got played by Trish, who took advantage of his sex addiction), depending on her level of emotional attachment to them, putting someone in the hospital for making her angry... with words (Pryce Cheng), and making use of someone's personal attachment to her and their specific highly illegal skills to smuggle one of said previously mentioned murderers out of the country. Oh, and a more minor one, but she saves a guy from having his store robbed, only to try and rob some of his booze immediately afterwards as some kind of compensation. And she does kill someone (granted, it was somewhat self defense), but then covers it up.
They kind of nuked a lot of JJ characters for me, personality-wise, in S2. Whereas Luke has grown as a hero since his debut on JJ S1, Jessica herself has seemingly backslided.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Jul 20th, 2018 at 07:36 AM
Jessica [SPOILER - highlight to read]: killed that guy by accident right
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Well, [SPOILER - highlight to read]: pretty sure she just blindly lashed out in defense, focused on surviving more than anything else. But it's more about the fact that she then went and covered it up. Along with all the other crap I mentioned.
Eh, I dunno. I just really didn't like the direction they took a lot of characters in JJ s2. But will see how things play out in the future.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
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Jul 1st, 2018 03:38 PM
