Each team will be given twenty minutes to prepare. The contestants will be approximately 1 kilometer apart (.62 miles). The battle will take place in the Mohave Desert.
LET THE BATTLE COMMENCE!!!
The judges for this match are pending…
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
A quick thanks to BD and the judges. And good luck to bran/goober.
Digi’s Post #1:
This will accompany the writeup. Due to size constraints, a few things had to be left out of the writeup concerning specific strategies and justifications. The first part of my post will be dedicated to that, then segue into the battle itself.
….
A. Power Sharing
The Surfer stuff is well-documented and we’ve done it before. And for those of you asking “does SP know Firelord and Stardust, or even BP”, we have all of Surfer’s memories from AW’s soul-link with him. We know all the heralds, and Thor is well-acquainted with BP from his Avenger days.
Also, to answer something from the last match that MM brought up: Warlock can soul-link outside of soul world, and without his gem. Like I said, we have concrete evidence (like the Strange link posted in the writeup) of everything we do.
B. Telepathic Defenses
If I need to, I can post scans of pretty much everyone contributing to our defenses. We have psi-blocks from Nate Grey that we set up in prep. Warlock’s a telepath. Surfer has telepathic powers to enhance Warlock’s own. Sentry has tp skills. Thor can absorb psychic energy directed at him.
I’m guessing they’ll want to make you believe that they’ll mind rape us with Despero and possibly Adaptoid as well. But between our defenses, and the fact that controlling someone’s mind is nigh-impossible when you’re getting beat down, this will mean nothing.
Furthermore, Warlock’s “invisibility” will extend to the psychic realm. If someone with the IG (which includes the Mind Gem, total control over the realm of the mind) can’t detect him, neither will anyone else. He’s completely “cloaked” and will only be known as soon as he decides to strike.
The scan is also useful because it proves it has no effect on Mjolnir.
Our surfboards will be coated in anti-metal because of Warlock’s transmutation copy of BP’s claws (using Surfer’s knowledge and power). So we have nigh-lightspeed weapons coated in stuff that utterly annihilates all metals.
If bran/goober do anything with metal, this is a ridiculously easy win for us. Not, “Oh, nice try, but here’s what we do now…” No, just pwnage.
D. Taking Out EXAM, a comprehensive look:
SP(Sentry) will be fighting him initially, so I won’t discuss Scoob’s territory. But Sentry isn’t the only way we have of beating EXAM. Thor has a rich history of beating AM:
…via BFR: http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=creel1uo0.png
…or via transmutation: http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?...utation1ld9.jpg
Thor, fed up with AM, simply uses Mjolnir to turn him into harmless helium. If Thor brawls AM, it becomes a problem. But if he’s smart about it (which he will be, because Warlock will be giving orders) he has many ways of taking out EXAM.
So basically, any of our 3 characters are able to take him out, and this doesn’t even mention our anti-metal boards. If EXAM is any metal, we won’t need any of this, and will beat him even sooner.
E. Thor
While Warlock and SP provide the theatrics for our team, Thor is still probably the most powerful. He has Firelord’s power cosmic added to his own power. His strength, durability, and energy powers will increase exponentially.
Also the board from Warlock, adding to his speed, and also covered in anti-metal.
He can still absorb psionic energy (see writeup for scan) and we have psi-blocks in place from prep, and skilled telepaths on the team. Telepathic attacks from Despero will mean nothing.
Surfer’s power added to Warlock’s own, in addition to AW’s intelligence and skill, probably makes him the most powerful person in this fight. Adaptoid is versatile, and no doubt bran/goober have something clever planned. But the sheer power they’ll be up against, in addition to our anti-metal boards, means that very little they can do (if anything) will bother Warlock in the least.
G. Final Thoughts
1. We’re stacking power onto Warlock and Thor to the extent that bran/goober won’t be able to keep up, regardless of what they try with EXAM and Adaptoid.
2. We have the greatest tactician in Marvel coordinating us, so if anyone’s battle plan is more likely to be pulled off efficiently, it’s ours.
3. If EXAM and Adaptoid use metal to guard themselves, or to attack us, this will be a quick fight. And since they can’t use metal at all, at least EXAM will be limited to much less powerful forms, and will never pose a threat. And Adaptoid will be limited as well, and will be up against the most skilled person in the fight (Warlock) with all of Surfer’s power.
…..
…..
Bwahahaha!!
I just read their writeup. A giant chunk of their prep is dedicated to making uber-sweet armor for their team. But there's only 1 problem.
It's all metal.
Our anti-metal boards will rip through them utterly, and Despero's trick of encasing Mjolnir in adamantium won't work either because of this (not to mention Mjolnir can teleport straight back to Thor).
...
They're also assuming they can "get the jump" on Warlock, who won't be detectable by any means they have. And they aren't accounting for Thor's power boost (Or Warlock's).
We're still determining matchups due to Warlock and our speed. ...I'd also say more but I suppose it can wait.
...
Oh, and since they're all "Absorbing Men" now...that transmutation stuff will be a viable attack for any of us, and Thor/Warlock both know what they're doing with transmuting EXAM (or the others)
....
Basically, their prep is shot to hell by anti-metal and they're in some DEEP trouble. Good luck digging out of this one guys.
Well Digi/Scoob‘s, that battle plan of yours is quite impressive to say the least. But let me show the problems inherent in your plan…
Problems with the Soul Link
1. It’s not easy. Now while it’s true that Warlock is capable of the Soul Link, the fact of the matter is that it is in no way shape or form an easy process for a someone to handle(probably one of the many reasons why Warlock doesn’t do it very often). Here we have the Soul Link between Warlock and Surfer inside of the Soul World… http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/503/tollke2.jpg
Notice that both of them are holding their heads and seem to be disoriented immediately following the transfer? This implies that the link itself takes a toll on those subjected to it. Warlock’s never shown the ability to link a group of people(only individuals), and since the Link itself seems to be difficult to handle, I’m having serious doubts about Warlock’s ability to accomplish such a transfer.
2. Skill/ability transfer. Now you say that the fighting skills and knowledge possessed by all of the individuals involved in the link will be transferred to everyone else correct? Prove it. While it’s true that the experiences of the recipients of the Soul Link are shared, there’s no proof(at least that I’m aware of) that things like fighting skills are transferred. Let me subject you to some logic, that way you’ll understand just what the problem is with the assumption you’ve made.
Adam Soul Linked with Strange before he did with Surfer or Thor, correct? Well if EVERYTHING is shared as your saying, wouldn’t that mean that both Surfer and Eric Masterson are now equal to Strange in Sorcery? Think about it, if Warlock picked up all of Stranges skills, and then linked again with Surfer and Thor, that would mean that those skills got passed on to Norrin and Eric as well. Now how much sense does that make?
Need further proof? Take a look at the third panel of the scan I’ve already posted above. Surfer flat out states that illumination and understanding are not one and the same. Your team may know all about each other, but there’s no proof that they’ve actually gained the abilities you’ve credited them with(including things like the nature of Surfer‘s powers).
Problem’s with Warlock and the Surfer’s powers
1. Well as we’ve already established, there’s no real proof that Warlock actually has all of Surfer’s abilities.
2. In the issue with the power transfer between Surfer and that guy, it’s true that Surfer got his powers back upon the death of the guy he shared it with. However, there’s no proof that such a death was necessary for Surfer to reclaim that power. Point me towards the statement where it’s covered that such a death was actually necessary, and I’ll accept such a claim as fact(until then, it falls under the heading of speculation).
3. The Surfer’s power cosmic isn’t Surfer’s to give away permanently. This was best demonstrated in the arc where Surfer had tired of his life as a hero, and sought to rid himself of the power cosmic.
See? His powers are a part of him that CAN’T be given or stripped away(except possibly by Galactus). That means that as soon as Space Phantom surrendered the form of Surfer, Surfer got back all his lost power. So everything in your prep period involving the Surfer is null and void(including your boards).
Problems with Thor and Firelord
If there’s one thing that Firelord has shown since inception, it’s that he ain’t Surfer. Assuming that Firelord is capable of the feat preformed by Surfer, is very similar to assuming that someone like John Steward is capable of everything that Hal or Kyle is, just because they technically possess the same powers(and John has actually been at it longer than Kyle, unlike Firelord who was granted the power cosmic LONG after Surfer). And there’s once again no proof that Thor would retain that power in the first place.
Other problem’s
1. Like everything else you’ve no proof that the shields put into place by X Man will stay in place after X Man’s powers are returned to him. The power of those shields comes from X-Man himself, and I’m sure he’s going to be plenty P.O. at you guys for stealing those powers in the first place. That means that he’ll in all likelihood take back that power upon escaping from Limbo.
2. Once again you have absolutely zero proof that Warlock is actually capable of concealing himself from EVERYTHING. All you have is a single vague incident, in which Warlock was able to stay undetected by someone who wasn’t mentally up to dealing with the IG. Don’t believe me about her mental inadequacies with the IG? Well here, maybe you’ll listen to Thanos… http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/264/nebulana1.jpg
Plain as day he says “Her Intellect is not up to Godhood”.
Need further conformation? Well take a look at Nebula’s battle with the abstracts… http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8916/cbbattlepk3.jpg
So now Thanos points out the fact that she’s in a state of bewilderment, and that her grasp on her power is light.
She was in no way adapted to the power she possessed, so Adam hiding himself from her doesn’t really mean that much. Show me a single instance of him using that particular ability against someone possessing cosmic awareness on the level of Mar-Vell, and your strategy might actually hold water. Because as is, I can come up with numerous scans of Warlock having to sneak around using pure stealth, as opposed to some all concealing sensory effect.
3. Digi/Scoob’s assessment of Super Adaptoid. Yes it’s true that Super Adaptoid can only use the power of a single individual at a time without risk. But unfortunately for Digi/Scoobs he’s only using the power of a single individual at a time. He’s not copying multiple opponents powers, he’s copy the improved powers of his individual team mates. So he’s in absolutely no danger of using all of those abilities he‘s acquired, so long as he doesn‘t try to use Despero‘s or EX AM‘s powers simultaneously.
4. Speed Advantage. It’s non existent for the other team. Light speed was the cap on both speed and reflexes, and at this point our team has those. That means that NONE of your characters are capable of having any kind of speed advantage over us.
So I don’t really see all that much changing from our original plan.
1. We’ll still be using Mar-Vell’s Cosmic awareness (until more proof is given as to the range of Warlocks ”concealment” ). Also we’ll still be using tp to scan for your location(until proof of some kind that Nate will for some reason allow you to retain the shields that HIS power put into place.
2. Our match ups will still go the way we want(since we were able to find your location and teleport behind you).
Despero vs. Thor- Thor’s hammer and arm get stuck in a block of pure admantium. Since Thor doesn’t have Firelord’s powers Despero let’s loose with alternating energy and mental blast until Thor goes down(which won’t take long since Thor’s not in much of a position to defend himself) and then help out whoever‘s in need(probably Super Adaptoid).
Super Adaptoid vs. Space Phantom- Space Phantom will still get the drop on Sentry and pound him with energy blast(and the occasional mental blast) until Sentry goes down or one of Super Adaptoid’s teammates arrive to help. Super Adaptoid has the speed advantage over Space Phantom(unless I happened to miss Sentry being upgraded to having light speed capabilities). So all Super Adaptoid has to do, is use his superior speed advantage to avoid Sentry’s attack, while firing off attacks of his own until Despero arrives. He can even use the power of the Nega Bands to increase his already impressive physical strength.
So how much will his powers increase? Well here’s Mar-Vell using his amped power to throw a beating to Drax the Destroyer(who had defeated him before Mar-Vell realized his ability to augment his strength)… http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/...raxowingbw2.jpg
I seriously doubt that even Sentry could withstand that kind of punishment for long.
So when you run out of plans, you try to damage your opponents' credibility. Fortunately, I know goober has a working knowledge of Warlock and was expecting to have to defend each of these points....which I can. Shall we?
Only one problem ace. We retain knowledge of our past tourney matches (I already checked this with BD). The soul-link happened last match. If you were our round 1 opponent, maybe this would have some weight. Right now, it doesn't have any.
Gladly.
"I didn't realize the things you've seen..." quoted directly from Strange's transfer. Thus, Strange has seen (experienced) everything Warlock has. The same is true of all soul-links.
"Understanding" referred to the way Warlock views the universe...his beliefs. Surfer says as much about a panel later. That comment has nothing at all to do with power/experience.
"Now you know all that is Adam Warlock."
"And you Norrin Radd." It doesn't really leave any room for debate. ALL that is Norrin Radd.
Next.
Yeah there is. I just showed you.
As stated in our writeup, we point out that the power cosmic transfer creates a telepathic bond between the two, so the man knows the entirety of Surfer's struggle, and knows what he must do. Surfer, fully capable of knowing of his death through this link, couldn't summon his power to save his own life until it came on its own.
The burden of proof is with bran/goober here, people. We showed proof, and they have no better defense than saying "Well, despite your on-panel evidence, we can't consider it truth until Stan Lee writes us a letter!"
....
goober's next few points are similar, and deal with the transfer stuff. I've justified our position sufficiently, and I'd just be repeating myself a bunch if I answered all of it.
....
I also have yet to see anything about what bran/goober will be doing, probably because they need to regroup after the anti-metal c*ck-punch we gave them in our prep. Curious though....I thought 6 people were in the fight, not 3.
Imagine I'm "Helmet Man". My body spontaneously grows helmets. I give you a helmet, then hop to a different dimension. Your helmet stays.
We had Nate give us "helmets". The psi-blocks stay in place without his constant concentration....the power is no longer an intrinsic part of him, it just originated with him. It's like that with nearly any energy/wielder or telepath.
On the level of Mar-vell? Apparently "on the level of IG" isn't enough for you.
Thanos' comment was an ego-driven rebuttal that has nothing to do with this. The fact is, she had total command of all aspects of reality, she BEAT the abstracts, and still couldn't see Warlock.
Furthermore, the comments from Strange/Surfer, affirming that he was undetected because "he is outside the realm of chaos and order" leave it in no doubt. He can do it, one time or not. Without the gem, outside soul world, current version. He's undetectable until he strikes.
And thanks for the reminder of the stealth feats. I'll post those soon.
So you're admitting that he can't use more than 1 at a time? Cool. So judges, go look at their prep....and you tell me how much Adaptoid's doing.
I guess you didn't get the memo. I'll get you a copy of it.
*send anti-metal-boards-pwns-everything-they-try-with-metal memo to goober*
...see my first post for the scans. It's really quite uber, and you guys are in tons of trouble because of it (i.e. that fancy-ass suit they built in prep is vaporized as soon as the fight starts).
Speaking of Thor-v-Despero, let's not forget the (planet-busting) power of FL: http://img42.imagevenue.com/img.php...605_meteorr.jpg
...which directly attacks Despero's burning weakness, and also increases Thor's strength and durability.
...
Basically, I'm seeing a lot of "sticking to the plan" when we just out-prepped them and have the clear advantage. Goober apparently isn't even ackowledging the anti-metal, which throws off a good 30-40% of their prep.
All he tried was to discredit us, which isn't happening. Everything we have is backed. And the speculation goober accused us of is really on his end of things...since he's just trying to fudge his way through most of the counter-arguments, using the same scans I'm using for definitive proof.
....
Speaking of discrediting, bran/goober have some questions to answer too. But Scoob was telling me his plans on this, and they seemed more complete than mine, so I'll leave the initial strike to him.
Digi has shown that Warlock is capable of everything we claimed of him.
About Nate/Warlock implanted mental blocks - Xavier implanted similar, though weaker, blocks in Wolverine a long time ago and, even though Xavier lost his power, the blocks are still there.
Which is proof that psi-blocks still exist even without the power that created them.
And the people shunted to Limbo have no memory of it after they are returned to wherever they came from ... so no need to worry about Nate being annoyed.
Likewise, point out where it says it wasn't.
Once the power has left his body it is no longer part of him... true, he constantly regenerates the power within himself and is fueled by the universe which means that he will always be connected to the power cosmic, but that doesn't change the fact that the power he has previously given away, blasted out or used to transmute elements is no longer a part of him
Actually, due to the fact that we have all of Surfer's experience to draw from, it's more like saying that if you put Hal's mind in John's body that he would be able to pull out all of Hal's feats ... which he would as it's all a question of knowledge (and willpower in their case)
It's simply a matter of power cosmic transfer, individual powers/feats of various heralds, don't enter into it.
Far beyond lightspeed actually ... he travelled from the earth to the sun in seconds in New Avengers #20
One punch and one throw don't exactly have us quaking in our boots... there's no way to tell from that scan if Drax was even dazed by that punch and every member of our team is stronger than/can fight better than Drax.
The simple fact is that the Super Adaptoid is not a good fighter, he has no imagination and always relies on power rather than skill to overcome his opponents.
Here's a couple of examples of this.
After gassing Cap, he copies his abilities and steals his shield and is then attacked, only to be beaten by a guy that the real Cap instantly pwns:
With only a light-weight team of Avengers to draw from (Hercules was the most powerful guy there) he overloaded himself ... Despero or Absorbing Man would cause him to explode .. especially if you're throwing the Nega Bands in there.
Adaptoid cannot become more powerful than our guys so he must rely on his skill ... and every time he does that he loses.
But most of that doesn't really matter as the Anti-Metal covered boards we have will cause Apadtoid to dissolve as soon as we get near him.
__________________________
Loki claiming AM can become anything he can think of is BS, is there a single example in any comic of Absorbing Man taking on the properties of something he's never come into contact with?
__________________________
Despero becoming the Flame of Py'tar means that he is not exposing his biology to it ... if he is the flame then he can't walk through himself.
Not to mention that the flame is totally random and may destroy him if he enters it again.
And Thor w/Firelord powers could easily control, absorb or destroy the flame of Py'tar at will
___________________________
So
As there's no way AM can replicate the potion used to create his powers half your prep goes out the window.
As Absorbing Man's physical limits are far below Sentry's full power there's no way he can become strong enough to put up a fight against him.
As Adaptoid can only hold so much power at a time before short circuiting then there's no way he will ever be a threat to a herald level being.
As Adaptoid and Absorbing Man have metallic properties then both will be slaughtered by our teams Anti-Metal boards.
As Despero has a weakness against heat based attacks there's no way he can stand up to a Firelord enhanced Thor.
Bigbran post #1
My characters are Super Adaptoid, and Absorbing Man.
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Then, just to say something... I find it funny that you guys have used NO scans, for this entire thing on Space Phantom. Just assumptions, is it? Who cares if he has turned into Hulk? Has he fully used his powers? Also, AM has turned into Hulk to, no stress on him at all. But when he tried to turn into Sentry when Sentry wasn't holding back, he got creamed (it doesn't matter because you have shown it). So, that shows that Sentry has by far, more power in his system than Hulk. So, just because you can turn into Hulk, doesn't mean you can turn into SS or Sentry. They both have more sources of power than Hulk, whether you say “infinite extra dimensional source of strength”, or not. Fact is, that Sentry, and Surfer have more power than him, and just because he can absorb Hulk, doesn't mean anything, unless you can SHOW us him doing the same thing to a herald level, or hell, give me Surfer's power absorbed.
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Your prep:
OK Soul Link, but I still don't see where you specified how SP's powers work. Based on what you told us, and shown, you could say that he could turn into Galactus.
You know, it is funny, "However, when he attempted to dimensionally displace the Asgardian god Thor, he himself was dispatched to Limbo since his power could not overcome Odin's various enchantments on Thor." Taken from here: http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-spacephantom.html
So, are you trying to tell me, that he can overcome GALACTUS'S power given to Surfer, or Firelord? So, unless you want to go to Limbo, I suggest switching your character. Plus, it would seem that you don't have to touch a character to turn into him, I am almost certain that this is wrong. Can you prove me wrong?
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SP sharing powers:
Ok, let’s say that he can turn into Surfer (no proof), what makes you think that he can share his powers? Are you forgetting that Surfer has had years of experience with his power? How is SP going to master Surfer’s power in a couple minutes? Plus, Warlock can control Surfer’s board, that is all he has been shown to do. He has never made Surfer give up all his power, and it would almost be foolish to say that he can. That would mean that he has complete control over Surfer, which he doesn’t. Also, wasn’t Warlock’s soul link BEFORE Surfer shared all his power?
SP won’t be sharing his powers, nor will he be getting powers from Surfer.
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Firelord:
Same as SP turning into Surfer. Plus, Firelord, to my knowledge has never gave up some of his powers. http://server6.theimagehosting.com/...&fullsize=1
That is why, Firelord isn’t sharing his powers. Just because Surfer can, doesn’t mean Firelord is doing anything of the sort.
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Black Panther:
He has little anti-metal claws, but, you are going to have to slash at us to make them succeed, since they aren’t as good as the big stuff (the things that destroyed Ultron). Plus, when it destroyed Ultron, Hank beat on him, to put him down. Plus, as my partener has pointed out, Warlock won’t have every power of Surfer, and hasn’t shown it. Also, how will SP get Black Panther’s power in the first place? Just because Thor knows him? Well, Thor doesn’t know everything about BP. Plus, you have never explained how SP’s powers are going to work. Imagination? Well, if that is the case, then based on Thor’s imagination, SP won’t get those anti-metal daggers. It really makes no sense of what you are trying to do with SP. Doesn’t he have to touch, or be around someone to use their powers? If that is the case, then you can only be Warlock, and Thor (oh wait, you can’t be Thor). So, SP is nothing, nothing in this battle. Or can he use powers that he previously had? If that is the case, then you can be Hulk, or Giant Man (a few others, but these are the only good ones). Wow, SP, is really less than a nuisance in this battle.
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X-Man:
Just because Thor knows him (check last point), doesn’t mean that SP will be turning into Nate (Darth has pointed this out and other things if you could turn into him). This all goes back to no proof for the things you want SP to do. Also, just because he COULD (not saying he can) take these powers, he still doesn’t have the experience to use them like Nate could. He won’t make powerful psi-shields, because he doesn’t have experience. You think he will instantly master his powers? He would be more like a child Frank Richards (I say this because he was more powerful) with his power (no understanding). Sure he might be able to pull something off (not what he wants though), but he won’t have the ability to just whip up a shield. Hell, even Franklin Richards would have more experience, and all of his powers were random, how do you expect SP to function?
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Stardust/Mjolnir + shields:
Completely ignoring all of the past things about SP, so, um, you expect all these powers to come from the soul link, right? Well, Surfer/Warlock’s soul link, was way before Stardust came onto the scene. Meaning, that, the soul link would transfer no knowledge of Stardust, whatsoever. Hell, Surfer first met Stardust last year; the soul link was way back in the IG saga. So, even if SP’s powers worked like you think they do, you still aren’t turning into Stardust.
OK, you threw up shield with JUST Warlock you mean? Because Warlock isn’t getting Surfer’s powers.
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Undetected/fights:
Um… in the same scan, Surfer, Thanos, and Strange all saw Warlock. (Darth has already dealt with the other things).
Actually, we are equal in speed.
(Darth has already said some things about your powers if they work anyway) How exactly are you going to add in Antarctic Vibranium into the board? I mean, no one really knows about Black Panther on your team, and they wouldn’t know everything about him, but that isn’t all, you haven’t even shown how SP uses his powers. If it is like you are implying, then Thor should know really nothing of these claws, and how they work. Plus, if all SP needs is an image of the character, then how would he get their powers, and such. It makes no sense, unless he has to touch his opponent (which would make him useless, like I already pointed out).
Plus, Warlock won’t gain Surfer’s powers (I already pointed this out), and even if he could, and everyone had boards, only Warlock could use it.
Here’s why: http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/...ersboardjr3.jpg
So, unless you are going to have Warlock control his own board, and the two others, they are completely irrelevant. I don’t think you want Warlock to focus on everyone else’s board, while he is in the midst of a battle. That would make him completely vulnerable. The good news for you though, is that you won’t have to focus on these nuisances, since you won’t get Surfer’s powers.
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Thor/anti-force blast + Thor’s reaction times:
You guys forgot what happened to Thanos about two pages later. http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?...lowned3tka3.jpg
He came out completely unscathed.
Also, since you didn’t funnel any energy into his hammer that blast will just not be participating in this battle.
That wasn’t reaction time, that was him swinging his hammer doing something. Thor didn’t dodge anything, all Thor shown, was that he can carve something at speeds faster than mortal eyes can follow. Are you going to have Thor carve something?
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Thor’s powers:
Thor has no control over his board. Thor doesn’t have Firelord’s powers (I already explained), and if he did, he would also have to carry around Firelord’s staff… kind of negates his strength? He would have both hands full, and most of Thor’s powerful blasts, come with him holding on with both hands. But, you can also thank me on this one, since Thor won’t get Firelord’s powers (previous comments).
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Sentry:
Same thing as Stardust. OK, SP has turned into Hulk. How about we use the scan that you so politely put up for me? AM has easily used Hulk’s power, easily. He has also used Sentry’s powers easily. As soon as Sentry said he wasn’t holding back though, he completely overloaded him with energy. How in the hell is SP going to handle that kind of energy? Throw Hulk’s power out the window, since AM has also been there, and done that. So, no proof then?
Plus, no one on your team really knows anything about Sentry (soul link), so even if we have Space Phantom’s “mysterious”, unexplained power, he still isn’t turning into Sentry.
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EX AM:
Well, since YOU brought up him beating no one. Why don’t I just go in for your hypothical situation (since that is what I see your SP turning into people as), of you turning into Surfer? http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/...rsex1207em2.jpg
Also, none of your team has the same ability as Vision, so it doesn’t matter who he lost to.
And again, you won’t be turning into Sentry.
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Rundown:
Actually we are the same speed, and Warlock won’t be undetectable. Oh, and we have better reflexes and we have one of the best cosmic awareness’s ever witnessed in Marvel.
Actually, when I think of it, Thor can only really travel the top speed in a straight line, and Warlock can travel it. SP has nothing, but, two of our guys have the top speed, and Darth has dealt with Despero.
I already dealt with the boards. For your next statement, it is UNKNOWN of what Anti-Metal does to Uru, but hey, it doesn’t matter since you won’t use it.
Nope, no advantages, just Thor, and Warlock, and whatever you want to switch SP into, since your strategy won’t work.
Darth already dealt with this. Plus, you won’t have any psi-defenses, and the only person you can argue this for really, is Thor.
Since SP is just a waste of space, that gives us another advantage. It is two against one basically (unless you turn him into Hulk, I would).
After that, we win.
Bran is a good debator and also a good guy, but it's obvious he either didn't read through our explanations fully or simply didn't understand much of it.
Also, quite honestly, I'm getting tired alreayd of unfounded attempts to discredit us. Bran/Goober have barely started arguing for THEIR team...all they do is bash us.
I can spend all week defending our strategy. It's all completely legit. But it's getting a little bit ridiculous.
....
I will say this: We still have the power advantage due to our power meshing. I'm about to shoot down all attempts to discredit our strategy, and they're not even trying to deal with us at full strength. And that's because they can't.
....
Sentry's powers were energy-based. Hulk's are purely strength. It's comparing apples and oranges. But both are "potentially infinite" (what isn't in comics these days).
And as to "Has he used Hulk's powers?" Yes, he's punched and stuff. But he has centuries of battle experience and skill via the soul-link. If you're trying to make an argument that he lacks skill, it's flat-out wrong.
...this is the 2nd time we've fielded this. It was the magical enchantments that blocked SP from becoming Thor. We knew this and didn't hide it from anyone...SP can't do magic. He's like the anti-Black Alice. So you're just beating a dead horse...the entire tourney knew this during drafts. It's not a new "tactic" to use against us.
Er, the scans we showed where he did exactly that.
Soul-link, from round 1. The entire basis for our prep...which we've been over probably two dozen times.
We're not making Surfer do anything. SP becomes him, does the transfer that he learned via the soul-link, etc.
...bran beats this theme to death some more. But again, he accuses us of "not posting scans of support" when we have proven evidence of everything we're doing. It's bran/goober taking shots at our prep that aren't backed by anything other than speculation.
This is where I'm thinking he didn't read. We copied the anti-metal, but not the form of the claws. Our entire boards are covered in it....so yeah, we have 3 nigh-lightspeed weapons coated in anti-metal that are just as powerful as the stuff that utterly destroyed Ultron.
...look at the rest of it though. It was disintigrating all metal in the area.
I...um...I'm not even sure this makes sense. SP's powers work because they're his powers. He becomes people. It's what he does. And unlike your shady EXAM = GL arguments, it's actually in his power-set.
And what does Thor have to do with our anti-metal? BP comes with his standard equipment, as per KMC vs. forum standards. And I posted the official Marvel bio of BP that states he has the claws.
Once again, he's not flying blind. He has the telepathic XP of Strange, Surfer, and Warlock (also a telepath) will be guiding him through it.
You're thinking too small bran. Warlock is a former wielder of the IG, and was one with the entire Marvel universe...past, present, and future. For proof, I could post scans where he talks about his own future.
So he knows everyone in Marvel ever. Everyone. It doesn't matter when Surfer met Stardust, because we're not using Surfer's memories here. Same with BP, although Thor most certainly knows of him as well.
They were his allies. Are you saying he can be invisible to a wielder of the IG but not a few herald-level people?? Please.
Besides, the invisible thing is just to determine matchups and have the element of surprise. You're agreeing to Thor vs. Despero, and Warlock's invisibility will ensure we determine the other two.
But it barely matters. Any of our people can beat any of yours. It's just picking your poison.
He's loaning the power the same way SP gave it to Warlock. He won't need to control all 3 boards. Yet again, just a completely wrong assumption.
Yeah, Despero.
...
The rest of bran's post uses his erroneous assumptions, so they're not worth responding to.
...
Other stuff.
1. We can still simply transmute EXAM into helium (or an element of our choosing) with either Surfer or Thor. We've posted both of them showing their transmutations abilities with great skill (in my Post #1, for reference)
2. Scoob explained our stance on their prep better than I could, but in a nutshell, EXAM "becoming the potion" that he was made with is utter bullocks. Also, the whole imagination hypothesis is just that...a guess. They don't have 1 scan of EXAM understanding Loki's message or putting it into use. It's complete and total speculation.
3. Speed might be roughly equal. But Warlock's invisible, so advantage us.
4. Anti-Metal boards are still a b*tch to deal with. They can't become any metal and most of their tricks won't work. But I see they were smart enough to stop talking about that suit we vaporized that they spent so long building in their prep.
Thor has read the Avenger's files on all allies and enemies ... it's compulsory for every Avenger to do this.
He has all of Warlock's expertise in telepathy to draw from, as well as the Surfer's... and Space Phantom has a decent level of control over the powers of everyone he mimics.
Thor, while fighting two Enchanters (beings close to Odin's power level who can use Mjolnir) he has microseconds to KO Magnir before their enchantment over Mjolnir fries him.
Thor is fast enough to reflect a telepathic bolt ... those things travel virtually instantaneously.
Not at all, Firelord has flown and fought many times with only one hand on his staff (that sounded way more deviant that was intended) ... in fact, the addition of power cosmic to his own might will increase his strength beyond anyone on your team's ability to handle him.
Anti-Metal doesn't effect Uru ... Digi already showed Thor standing in it's effect field and then being the one to put the anti-metal back into it's container ... all the while carrying Mjolnir.
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I realise that you feel your only chance at winning is to discredit our team's abilities but, unfortunately for you, everything we have done is perfectly within the scope of our character's powers.
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Not too much to add, offensively speaking.
Your metallic Absorbing Man and Adaptoid are taken out easily by our anti-metal boards.
Despero can't handle intense heat .... we have Firelord's power.
If Absorbing Man drops the metal in time to survive the board attack then Sentry will pwn the hell out of him.
__________________
Do you even KMC???
Last edited by Scoobless on Feb 1st, 2007 at 02:57 AM
Ok just so everybody knows, I honestly didn’t try to damage ANYONE’S creditability with my previous post(nor am I trying to do so now). I’m simply unconvinced that some of the actions taken by the opposing team could actually be preformed in the way they described them(I honestly meant no offense to anyone). Anyway….
(Since there are many things to which I need to respond to, but only so much space to work with, I’m going to have to do it this way.)
About the soul link…
Whether or not strain of the initial soul link was to great for the opposing team to have initially complete such a link in the first round is still very relative to the current match. Because if they where never really able to pull that off in the first round, then their team is still short of the info that they’ve been credited with.
Dr. Stranges statement of "I didn't realize the things you've seen...", doesn’t really prove anything. Don’t get me wrong, it is possible to interpret what he said the way Digi’s describing, but it’s also possible to interpret it in other ways too. It’s a vague statement that isn’t in and of itself proof. Show me Warlock actually using Strange’s spells. For that matter, show me Surfer or Eric Masterson using Strange’s spells(since they both soul linked with Warlock after Strange, they’d have Strange’s totality of experience too). I’ve yet to see ANYONE try to credit Surfer or Masterson as being equal to Strange in magic in a single vs. thread, and I’m willing to bet that the reason behind that is that everyone realizes that there’s no real proof that those kinds of things are transferred.
"Now you know all that is Adam Warlock.", "And you Norrin Radd.” unfortunately DOES leave room for debate. It COULD mean what Digi’s saying, or it could mean that they saw everything that happened to them, or it could mean that had a ride along flash back of each others lives, or any number of other things. I’m not saying that it’s not possible, I’m saying that there’s not enough actual proof to make the determination.
About Warlock and Surfer’s powers….
While Surfer may have possessed a telepathic bond with the man he split his power with, his not recalling that power still doesn’t prove anything. Surfer was beaten and battered when the man died, and was barely even conscious.
The fact is that Surfer COULDN’T really afford to take his power back before the man died, because the man needed that power to complete the mission that Surfer sent him on, and died completing it(so if Surfer had taken the power back, the man wouldn’t have accomplished his mission).
So the man died and Surfer got his power back. It’s still never covered whether or not that was necessary, and the defense that Surfer COULDN’T summon his own power is weak considering the fact that Surfer was so battered that he probably wasn’t capable of coherent thought until he got that power back.
His powers are a part of him that CAN’T be given or stripped away.
Wrong. The burden of proof WOULD be on us, except that you never really proved anything. The proof you provided is circumstantial at best ”Well, the guy died before Surfer got his power back, so that must have been necessary”, and it directly contradicts the proof that I provided of Surfer realizing that he CAN’T give his powers away permanently.
Warlock’s “invisibility”…
Warlock being undetectable by Nebula still isn’t proof that he’ll be able to remain undetectable by Mar-Vell’s cosmic awareness. If Nebula had actually demonstrated some big act of awareness that would be one thing, but she never really did that. With her having the IG, she should have known the minds of everybody present even if Warlock where hidden from her somehow. So she it seems that she wasn’t really aware of anything that wasn’t overly obvious. Our opponents are trying to build a case over something that seems to be nothing more than ill defined plot device that isn’t well defined enough to count on/
Firelord using Surfer’s feats…
Galactus gave Norrin more power than the rest of his heralds, and Surfer has shown to be capable of more. Firelord's done nothing to indicate that he's capable of EVERYTHING that Surfer is. He MIGHT theoretically possess that ability, but it’s never really been covered. And it's really inconsequential since no one’s proven that the effects would linger after Firelord got out of Limbo anyway.
And SA DOES get the fighting skills of people he's copied, it's just that skill isn't always enough. In one of the scans that Scoobs actually posted, Cap explains this http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22gt5.jpg
As far as Super Adaptoid, the number of powers is in fact the limit of his abilities. He’s only shorted out when he attempted to use multiple people’s abilities at once, it‘s NEVER happened unless he did that). As far as the POWER of the people he’s copied, he’s got guys like Blastaar, Annihilus(the guy that just killed Quasar with ease), and Captain Mar-Vell(with the Nega Bands) to his credit. And he’s also got this guy… http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6651/cubewz4.jpg
For those who don’t know, that’s an evolved cosmic cube Adaptoid just copied.
About Despero…
He doesn’t have to walk through the flame again. He’s taking on the properties of the Flame itself, along with his body from that time period. There is no “Fire” for Firelord to control(though no one‘s actually proven that Thor will still have Firelords powers, or that he was able to aquire them in the first place), the energy is internal.
Now the reason why I don’t seem concerned about the anti metal surf boards I keep hearing about, is because it still hasn’t been proven that the surf boards are even present. In order for the surfboards to be present, Warlock would actually have to have Surfer’s skill with the power cosmic. It still hasn’t been proven that he actually has that. The closest thing to proof that’s been provided, are the statements "I didn't realize the things you've seen..." And "Now you know all that is Adam Warlock.", "And you Norrin Radd.” , and those just aren’t concrete enough to base such an assumption on. Once again I ask, who here is willing to back Surfer or Eric Masterson in a vs. thread as being the equal of Dr. Strange in sorcery based solely off of those statements?
To Digi/Scoobs, once again I’ll take the time to say that I’m in no way trying to damage either of your creditability, I’m simply unsatisfied with the evidence that’s been provided at this point. There’s really no point in my responding to anything other than the holes I see in your prep time until those issue’s are resolved, because those are the very things that have the most bearing on this match. I’m not trying to spite you or anything like that, but there’s no point in my debating what happens in the fight between Sentry with an anti metal covered surfboard and Super Adaptoid, will I don’t feel you’ve actually shown that he’ll in fact HAVE that anti metal covered surf board in the first place.
It's becoming painfully obvious that their main strategy is simply to discredit us in every phase of our strategy. I would too in their position, because they have no other options. We're dominating the exchange, unless you buy into the unfounded arguments against our prep.
Most of the stuff I dealt with in my last couple posts. Between Scoob's SP scans and me shoring up the vailidity of everything else, there isn't much more to cover. Still, I'll respond to a few points just to drive it home.
No worries bud.
I realize it's arguments against our strategy, not us personally. And the same goes for anything I say (except for that filthy bran guy )
Strange was fine moments after. Surfer holding his head was momentary, at best. You're trying to make something out of nothing. And as stated before, the link happened last match, so any strain on us is completely gone.
Except that he has seen the things Warlock's seen....my point exactly. Moving on.
Why? So that we can have Warlock use his spells in our match? I didn't know you wanted MORE of a beatdown.
Anyway, here's your proof: Without ever asking, Warlock later innately knows that Strange can teleport them places (during the IG arc) and that he can negate the affects of the IG momentarily (when Nebula tries to kill them). He has knowledge of Strange without ever talking to him....it's all via the soul-link.
Warlock controlling Surfer's board (Scoob posted it earlier) is another great example of experience learned.
You're making the argument for me. Flashback, a series of thoughts, visions, experiences, etc. Any of those accomplish what we need to, because they're still seeing ALL of the things that the other one has.
...except we have our scan where he does exactly this, gives his power away. Kinda defeats the argument that it "can't happen".
Sure it is, because:
A. IG-endowed senses >>>>>>>>>>> Cosmic Awareness.
B. Cosmic awareness is predicated on the reality that is the Marvel Universe, but Warlock stands outside normal reality.
So this should lay it completely to rest. I'd rather not have to defend this a 4th time.
Bran/Goober have already admitted SA can't use more than 1 power at a time. This severely limits him. And no one power that he could copy and/or use is anywhere near powerful enough to tangle with the likes of Warlock(with Surfer's power) or anyone on our team, really.
He's outclassed even if he could use multiple powers.
Moot point. Despero is still vulnerable to normal fire, and Thor has all the power of FL, Marvel's most harcore fire-wielder. FL can bust small planets (scan posted earlier)...and he's directly attacking Despero's weakness. Add that to Thor's speed on a board, and his own power and fighting prowess, and you have yourself a beatdown.
Well, um, they are. We already proved all that.
And even if we didn't make boards (which we did), we'd still have the anti-metal.
And the anti-metal, as I'm sure you know, can BBQ-Pwn your fancy suit for EXAM, EXAM himself, and all your adamantium tricks.
...
Hopefully I'm done justifying our prep. But it's cool if I'm not. Like I said, I can defend our strategy all week, and bran/goober may not have much choice because they're so solidly outclassed.
So since I have some posts to play around with, I'll make a brief statement that summarizes my thoughts on the battle so far.
...
A. Offensive firepower
Thor at base levels, and Warlock with Surfer's power, can both simply transmute EXAM out of the fight by turning him into a harmless substance. See my 1st post for scans. Our anti-metal-covered boards will tear up his suit of armor, as well as tear up EXAM himself since they've been doing metal-related stuff with him.
B. If you believe the nonsense about EXAM becoming the potion that made him (you shouldn;t...they have no proof beyond Loki's speculation of what he's capable of...EXAM has never displayed such powers) we can still simply transmute whoever they give AM's powers to.
C. Questions
Scoob has proven the SP stuff with concrete evidence. I have proven Warlock's capabilities with logic and scans. Feel free to peruse the MANY times they tried to question me if you need further justification. They don't have a solid strategy in this fight, so they had to attack ours. It's their only option, and it's not working.
D. EXAM will be boned by Sentry even without all the other stuff I mentioned. He's simply beyond AM's ability to absorb.
E. Adaptoid's the weakest person here. He gets out-fought by Cap on several occasions, can only use 1 power at a time, and isn't nearly as good as bran/goober would have you believe.
F. Who's thinking of that?
We have Adam Warlock, the best strategic mind in Marvel, and with full knowledge of our team due to the soul link, leading us. Who exactly on their team is supposed to be thinking up this insane (and not doable) strategy? Adaptoid? The man who gets punked by Cap all the time. Despero? A smart enough guy, but more about punching things than out-thinking opponents. Creel? Our plan is doable, because we have a believable means by which our team will think of this strategy. But there's no way in a thousand years that if you threw together bran/goober's team that they'd think up that nonsense.
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To me, it's about looking at what WILL happen, not what could happen. We have them beaten regardless of what they do, but they're standing on tenuous ground to begin with, and a far-fetched plan, or a lack of a plan (as evidenced by their single-minded devotion to attacking our plan) isn't the way they're going to win.
But yeah, they haven't posted in a few days, and have gotten about 5 votes in the poll during that time.
...in the future I'd vote for just 5 judges. I have no problem with losing if they legitimately beat us, but when it seems like not posting = votes, I start getting a bit upset. I'm not blaming bran/goober....they've been good opponents, and I'm sure they have their reasons for not being around as much. But judges who are going to read through everything are in my opinion perferable.
Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been on in a while but my mom had to go to the hospital the other day so I've been spending time with her there. But she's checking out tomorrow(which is why I'm back on now), and I'm working on my next post right now. So if it's possible, I'd appreciate it if the judges would be good enough to refrain from voting until tomorrow evening, that way it gives bigbran and I time to make our case(I don't really know where bigbran's been cause I haven't talked to him in a couple of days, but he probably has a good reason too). I'll understand if the judges would rather just go ahead and vote at midnight(after all, we DID agree to the timetable), I just thought I'd ask.
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Jan 30th, 2007 10:30 PM
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