Aahh... a very paranoid battle plan if i say so myself, can't be good on the mind and energy reserves.
You intend to erect a shield and keep your nanites levitating throughout it in efforts to snag my characters, well it looks like Victor's "shield" is based on catching projectiles electromagnetically using his senses to do so right? And might I add he blocked those missiles at the last second. You will probably be able to take out Harrow's missiles since they will be coming at you obviously and directly (assuming you can do this while concentrating on levitating and holding your alien guns without frying them trying to defend yourself ), but the meat of the matter namely the sniper bent on killing you with the technology to indiscriminately radiate a power draining effect without the wielder's innate concentration is out of reach and ready for the kill shot(s).
Dr. Harrow is also a capable code hacker, and though Victor was smart enough to have a fire wall in his programming after the New Pride hacked him, who's to say he could withstand Harrow's uncanny skills for long, the guy casually hacked the Iron Patriot armour and Victor is under constant threat of an Ultron take over at all times. He's not totally shut out from the outside.
Back on the shields. Victor doesn't have them, he can direct his ability to isolate metallic objects but that's not a true blue shield like say magneto has. Victor need's a target to manipulate, it's not just some field surrounding him in the form of a shield that blocks things with anything close to having the perimeter Blair's trying to say he does. I'd like to see him block a full velocity bullet without seeing the gun.... and add being preoccupied, and already using his powers to float his nanites around.
He's still a "kid", in time he might be something on the battlefield but experienced he is not. A big thing though is, even if you could take the power drainer like you said, good luck controlling it since you'd be de-powered, It's repeatedly proven range is greater than your supposed range and it's proven effects are FAR stronger than your supposed effects. + your nanite control has no means of taking out the drainer, it would just effect Pip the Punisher....though, how much spit do you intend to imbue into your "shield"? Looks like you would need a huge wad of it to amount to the desired effect. A dispersed amount should be proportionately less impressive, what's the point?
Noh-Varr isn't even a fast flier, his flight capacity coupled with Mancha's still isn't anything to right home about, just a target floating in plain sight... in Frank's home turf... slowly blasting the area...yes slowly.
Pip can throw Goblin gas bombs with his ten ton strength now, and use the grenade launcher on the rifle's hard-point to rattle you while teleporting from rooftop to rooftop, mid-air teleport hops, etc but all of that is secondary since the drainer has her by the overies.
Lastly, the supposed frying of my drainer by being near your team is false since it's effects are constant, more powerful, reach out farther, and most importantly make your guy stop working like you want him to... assuming you have a field in the first place...and one that will work in concert with your other powers being used frantically due to paranoia.
My guys don;t even want to get near you, just shoot you and Pip the Punisher is well equipped for that, he could even teleport back into the van and get more equipment from various villains to further bust you up so.....
My shit works, yours might work but mine makes yours not work completely.
Last edited by psycho gundam on Apr 1st, 2010 at 03:58 AM
Some were small from the OP also, and some didn't work so I'll re-upload the only ones that were posted above and nothing else. They had brief descriptions of what the scans entailed so I'm not cheating ftr.
1) Let us assume that the drainer has a perfect sphere of influence (for your benefit). Now, we know for a fact that we start off one kilometer apart. 1 km =3,280.8399 feet. The tallest building in NY is 1,250 feet. If the Avengers were OUT of range of the power drainer on a random building in NY, then we can validly assume that from our starting positions your power drainer will have no effect on me.
2) By flying high into the atmosphere, and you staying away from us like you have said you would do [exact quote: My guys don;t even want to get near you, just shoot you], you again leave us out of the range of the power drainer. So all you are doing is carrying around an extremely fancy peice of hardware in a heavy backpack for no reason
3) It takes time to work, yes? If you decided to actually come near me to have the power drainer try to take effect, my powers would still be operating. As you so clearly put, "he can direct his ability to isolate metallic objects." What is the power drainer but that such object? I never said I had a true blue forcefield. However, for lack of a better word here is a description: anything technological in nature, metalic in nature, or anything I may be able to manipulate will be in my control if it so decides to come near me. So, come near me with the power drainer, and it will be fried to kingdom come before it can do much good.
Not only that but he needs to be able to reach me for the drainer to take effect. By my being so high up, he would have to teleport near me. And then proceed to fall, as he is not a flyer. Here is the kicker and how he shot himself in the foot: Each time he teleports, the drainer's affect is gone. It's really simple:
He cannot stay in the air long enough for the drainer to affect me unless he wants me to take it over
Since he cannot fly, he would have to continuelly teleport to reach me, thus ending the effect of the drainer. And every single time he teleports, the signal would be gone.
4) [Quote Above Referenced] Now, being that we are in a post-NY setting we are the only living beings in this environment. If I go and fly up so I can see the city, and having a general idea of where you are (1 KM away, which is not that far considering the ariel view I have. Consider being on an airplane and looking down. How much can you see? Tons!), then when you start moving in that little van of yours I know exactly where to shoot. Now, I'll touch on my assault in a moment, but I won't need to aim at you directly to hit you. My attacks all target mass areas.
In addition, what are you going to lock on? With Judomaster's aversion field, you will not be hitting anything of any kind. That includes Pip the Punisher and his long range rifles.
5) You have Pip the Troll going around teleporting from place to place. I have my guys shooting wide spread, heavy damage attacks. Sooner or later you will be hit if you keep teleporting - especially if you are teleporting as you said [exact quote] "while teleporting from rooftop to rooftop."
My Plan: Heavyarms
Now, my plan consists of flying up high and blowing the crap out of Central Park by targeting my foe. Simple and effective.
These are just sample scans, with commentary, on what Noh-Varr's weaponry can do. The first opening post contains more scans on a variation of weaponry we have access to [since his gun(s) can change shape, we have different configurations].
List of reasons why my attacks will do massive amounts of damage:
They have no real superhuman durability to speak of
They are choosing to stay close to the ground/city
They cannot target me with my aversion field
My attacks are wide area effecting shots with high power output
The range of the drainer is not enough to reach me. Especially in a post apocalyptic NY where the buildings are probably in ruins.
Not only that, but my magnomorphic abilities make sure that any tech in my field of influence is fried to a fine crisp. And the spit? If you come close enough to get hit by that, I tell you to punch a hole into the drainer and plummet to your death.
Since I am known for my longer posts, I will keep this short and summarize succinctly:
My plan was to gain the upper ground and force you to move. Whether you teleport all around, or ride around in a tiny van, I have the height advantage and my weaponry can affect huge areas. By continuelly bombarding you with attacks I force you to teleport or get hit (which will of course eventually happen)
Not only that, but if you teleport near me, you have no flier, thus must continuelly teleport. Every time you teleport you cut the signal from the drainer. The signal which I have already proven does not have the range necessary to reach me, but for your sake, even then, the signal would not be effective.
In the end my long range approach will work because you have no real flier or someone who can even get close to me. Taking into account my ability to rain down havok on you, there is no other alternative for your characters but to die.
That was a short post, but I will one up you with a shorter one.
Harrow was intermittently activating the drainer, more aptly he did it (from a safe location) when opposition sprang up. So following that logic, the supposed sphere of influence is unknown, both of us just lazily attempted to gauge it but it's still unknown, we're most likely low-balling it (especially you lol)
Also, and here's the kicker: Pip can teleport anywhere that includes out of fire form any of your FLASHY WEAPONS, plus a gun fight with Castle even without the power to insta-port and de-power is asinine to say the least, it's like an 8 year old boy trying to fight his dad.
You drafted youths with little true battle experience, their nerves will be shot (and Cerabelums) and the frantic OP you made is def proof of that. You're in over your soon bullet ridden head (your amalgam, not you bro)
you don't even have the visual acuity to target frank from up there, especially with just the distant van as your only apparent target, Pip will never been in plain sight to you, nor will you be able to hit him thanks to my uber teleportation abilities. Move to the opposite side of the battlefield cause one is being slowly torched..... cake, move back to an ALREADY DESTROYED AREA THAT YOUR GUYS WILL NOW OVERLOOK.... cake.
Anyway, the drainer rapes and your guy is a sitting duck in the air wasting his ammo/energy against a hunter that can take you out anytime.
You can't even make me believe that you even have a real shield, especially one the is sustained while you do other things, and other things with your hands holding fragile alien weaponry (which you will scramble with your electro-magnetism, unless your powers are weak as shit amirite? lulz
The drainer is working and in concert with tele-hops + sniping from your blind sides + an obvious target in battle van attacking you flat out, your amalgam will feel fulfilled in destroying it and most likely think the fight's over and lower it's guard (providing your plan succeeds and you're not de-powered and missing brain matter) you will be even less likely to even think about Pip and make things worse.
Your amalgam will be busy causing property damage, a teleporting sniper is the last thing you'll find amongst mass ruination and fire/smoke, Ever seen Hurt locker?
Seriously, lol at the drainer not working.
Nice try kid.
Last edited by psycho gundam on Apr 2nd, 2010 at 05:51 AM
I apologize for the lateness. I've been out almost all day and I only just got back in time to finish this post.
His scenario flaws
The main focus of his, and this, debate is that of the power drainer. Why? Because my plan is not in question as it is both simple and effective. Ill get to that later, but for now, lets focus on the flaws of his plan, which happen to be numerious. So many things have to happen in tandem with eachother for his plan to work, but I digress. Let me prove my point:
1. Power Drainer Range
So you admit that you have no idea the actual range to this device, correct? I mean, I gave you a pretty wide margin for which to work with, but if you have no idea how big the influence is, how can anyone else be sure? Either way, you have no proof of the actual range since every single person that was affected by it was within one little tiny area.
Not only that but if the sphere of influence is so large that no location I go allows me the opportunity to be free from its grasp, then you just described an indefensible attack which as you well know is banned from this tournament.
So either, the device has a limited range - freeing me from actually being hit by it due to my action of flying high into the atmosphere from the moment the battle started - or its range is infinite, for the purposes of this match, and thus a bannable attack. You choose
2. Teleporting: Not the ultimate technique
Has anyone argued this point? I certainly have not. However, just because you can teleport anywhere does not mean you are safe. Why? Let me list some reasons for you
Unless Pip has cosmic awareness, how will he know where the hell to teleport to? With my advanced mass effect weaponry I could hit the building NEXT to you, and still HIT YOU. Or you could teleport into a disintigrating area.
It is not like you have a huge amount of area to be teleporting around. Central Park occupies roughly 1.2 miles. From an aircraft cruising at 10,000 meters (about 33,000 feet) you can see 357 kilometers = 222 miles to the horizon*. Now, you can assume all you want about where I am in the sky, but the fact of that matter is that I AM in the sky, therefore I can see pretty damn far, no? And with Marvel Boy's tech [helmet included] I would have targeting sights to be able to see you clearly.
Multi-teleporting like you are suggesting will cut the power drainers signal over and over and over and over and over again. Your greatest asset suddenly becomes a liability because you did not think logically about the tactics you were using to bring your strategic plan to life.
3. The Tech is Metal
No one is asking you to believe I have a real shield. But I am asking you to believe that if there is something technological in the area, Victor's powers will allow me to exploit it.
This includes your power drainer, if it by chance actually got near me. This also includes your weapons and whatever you choose to unsuccessfully through at me do to Judomasters powers. To show you again Victor's powers:
Take this into account: any weapons you fire at me I can most likely just take over and redirect at you. Not only am I hitting you with the full force of my weaponry, you are getting bombarded by the ammo you so graciously provided me with. This leads directly to my next point:
4. No Defense
You have two humans and Pip. Are you serious? You get tagged once, just ONCE, and you go down for the count. That includes flying debris. My weapons would make short work of your team.
I mean, they have proven to be effective on buildings, city blocks, Sentry, etc etc. You get my point yes? If it can make Sentry cry in pain, it makes you dead. Period.
My plan is extremely simple. I fly up high and shoot death down at you. But not only is it simple, it is effective. I've done nothing too complicated, have not overreached in any plans, and yet I still have the advantaged in power, weaponry, and battle strategy.
^ Stanley talking about hacking microchip from the van, again Harrow hacked the Iron Patriot armour without prior knowledge of his arrival so it was a quick job.
Now that that's out of the way......
You are still using the same lame scan that don't show anything more than the ability to catch incoming metallic objects. you have to be aware to do that. And again your inflating the radius of said "field", i mean, how much energy do you think victor would have to use in order to attempt to make your idea's real? He's not going to be able to run at high capacity (and then some to do things he has never come close to doing) without losing power.
But this is all distraction for m the meat of the matter: The power drainer and it's reach.
"So you admit that you have no idea the actual range to this device, correct? I mean, I gave you a pretty wide margin for which to work with, but if you have no idea how big the influence is, how can anyone else be sure? Either way, you have no proof of the actual range since every single person that was affected by it was within one little tiny area."
What i know is that it's omnidirectional, and that it's a large area, but yourself and me are in the dark to it's maximum range. The characters that got smacked by it were in the middle of attacking their intended target so therefore in self defense (or craft) Harrow activated the device. But the funny thing is.......YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHERE HARROW IS....EVER Like...you never see him in the same physical proximity as them, all you see are diversions or the Avenger's going after some random Hood goon's. THE OMNIDIRCTIONAL STARTING POINT IS UNKNOWN... YOU HAVE NO BASIS.................................
(I'll get to the middle section later)
"So either, the device has a limited range - freeing me from actually being hit by it due to my action of flying high into the atmosphere from the moment the battle started - or its range is infinite, for the purposes of this match, and thus a bannable attack. You choose smile"
I went back and fourth with this match several times. But in the end I chose to give my vote to PG. Here's why:
- First off, the power drainer. While I was not convinced that it had the ability to affect an extremely large area, I was convinced that the area it could affect was large enough that immediately as the battle began, PG's amalgam could teleport somewhere in the general vicinity of the other team, whilst simultaneously activating the drainer as he materialized there -- effectively depowering Blair's team. Why? Because in the time it takes to teleport (nigh-instantly) and the time it apparently takes for the draining sphere to spread outward (very rapidly) I don't feel that Blair's team would be able to avoid/outrun it before they were 'struck' (for lack of a better word) by the sphere. And after this happens, Blair's team is rendered almost completely powerless, and the battle becomes a horrible stomp in PG's favor.
-The drainer aside, even if Blair's team were able to fly to the extreme altitudes he mentioned before the drainer was used, I was not convinced of his team's ability (or lack thereof) to accurately view PG's team from said height -- especially given the fact that PG's team could be constantly *poofing* themselves all over the place. I mean, how can a character accurately be targeted if said character is a.) in a perpetual state of teleportation, and b.) can't be clearly seen (if at all) by the opposition, even if they weren't teleporting? Personally, I didn't buy the "close your eyes, point the gun somewhere in that direction, unload as quickly as you can, and hope to God you hit something" part of the strategy.
-As far as the tracking gun, I don't think that would work well either (again, due to PG's teleportation.) As soon as it locked on, PG's team could simply teleport out of the way.
-Victor. It seemed like a few of his abilities were being stretched a bit more then they were worth (especially where potentially controlling the drainer is/was concerned.)
-Judomaster. I don't feel that she would be very effective here. I understand full well that she went "x" amount of rounds with Wildcat without being touched, and I also understand the theory behind her aversion field. However, she has never faced a teleporter. And I've seen her owned by omni-attacks (akin to the draining sphere) in the past.
All in all, Blair's team had superior overall firepower, along with a better rounded defense. But in the end I was just not convinced that he would be able to avoid the initial power-sapping-sphere as quickly as he would need to (or at least I never saw evidence that his characters were fast enough to do so), and I saw nothing solid which led me to believe he could get around PG's teleportation.
Congrats to both. Excellent match.
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Apr 4th, 2010 at 11:49 PM
Let me just say I enjoyed reading the points and counter points made by each competitor. In a nutshell, I felt that the match hinged on two main stances: PG's power drainer and BW's ability to take control of tech. Granted, PG also had teleportation on his side as well as the skill and armory of the Punisher, but when placed up against the likes of BW's Victor, Judomaster, and Noh-varr rolled into a single amalgam, it quickly becomes a fight I really had to double take with. In the end, I had to ask myself "which is more likely to happen? BW's powers being shut down, or BW taking control of all the nifty tech goodies PG has at his disposal?"
The power drainer itself seems to be an intregal part of PG's overall strategy; and because it was shown to effect even the fuggin' Sentry, there's no reason why it shouldn't be. That being said, I was skeptical of some of things said about it. I think Blair did a good job casting just enough doubt to make me believe that the drainer, while effective in its own right, isn't packed with the range that Gundam claimed it was. I also think that Blair's team was more capable of operating on the fly and wasn't too entirely dependant on one aspect of what his team had to bring. Conversely, I felt that if Gundam's power drainer strategy did not go off as planned, he would be severely disadvantaged. I wouldn't say it was a "one trick pony" strategy, but outside of removing powers, I really didn't see Gundam as having the raw power to put down Blair's team.
In the end, I had to make a critical choice: do I feel that the power drainer would work and to the degree Gundam wants it to? Provided he could actually catch them with the field, I'd say yes. After all effecting Sentry and his whacked out abstract crab powerset is a good sign of effectiveness. Now would he actually be able to get them in that field and its very vaguish level of range? I'm not entirely sold on that. Teleportation certainly helps in this indeavor, but not enough to consistantly remain a viable threat to Blair who has superior battle field control. And because I think that Blair's team is more well rounded and capable - also packed with stuff to mess up Sentry - and able to work around a variety of issues on the battlefield, I have to give Blair Wind the vote.
I think that Blair's team controlled the pace of the match as well as boasting superior offense and defense. I think him having a simplier (in comparison to PG's) plan with a "meat n' potatoes" feel to it. I think this was one case of effectiveness prevailing over creativity and ingenuinty (not to say that Gundam's plan was uneffective at all; just not as effective as Blair's in this case). It also didn't hurt that Blair could either dodge pretty much anything, shield himself from a lot of things, or take it over outright.
It was a good match, with both guys making excellent points to force me to make a decision, revaulate it, and change it, all multiple times. Great job, guys.
I've read this twice over trying to come up with an answer, and to be honest, i almost didn't. By the slimmest of margins, though, i have to go with PG.
Firstly, i felt both competitors reached so far that in the end, their reach exceeded their grasp. Neither plan really hit me as being foolproof or entirely effective anyway, and god knows i think people overcomplicate things as it is. That said, both competitors worked their asses off and i can't fault them for their effort or their ingenuity.
In the end, though, Gundam's plan just seemed more, i don't know, adaptable, maybe? It goes back to what Galan said to about the teleportation and Mancha's abilities being stretched somewhat. I (sadly) share the same opinion, and the more i read it, the more my gut tells me that PG is the winner in a long drawn out fight.
That, and the electromagnetic field Blair had set up was just too ill-defined for my liking.