I respect my opponents and wish them luck. That said:
(please log in to view the image)
Some Basic Problems with My Opponents’ Prep
I’m not a big fan of attacking one’s opponents on legal grounds – it is a tactic that, to my mind, seems effete and cowardly. But as the judges can plainly see, large portions of my opponent’s stratagem are clearly invalidated on legal grounds. The rules clearly state that no character shall be summoned who is above high meta, and yet my opponents claim to be able to summon Joseph — an unbelievably silly proposition, considering that he is not only Magneto’s clone, but would by virtue of Kabuto’s zombification ritual would be immortal. This is an important point, and one that was missed in the match between Based Gods and Mutant X. Inimalist was generous enough to allow Kabuto’s summons despite the fact that they break the immortality rule, but what was ignored was the fact that the power of immortal regeneration also affects the tier level of the beings summoned. My opponents would have you believe that someone who can regenerate better than Mr. Immortal and who can also level a city with gravity manipulation (Nagato), or uproot a mountain (didn’t catch that one’s name), is merely meta-tier — which is absurd. Aside from a few of these ninjas who, with their immortality power, are clearly above the summoning limit, most of my opponents ninjas appear to have no significant powers, or at least, I couldn’t get anything out of the artwork that he scanned (such primitive drawings confuse my futuristic mind).
Using DNA samples from the last fight is really cool idea. Unfortunately for my opponents, the samples he acquired were from technologically merged beings. Has Kabuto ever resurrected such an entity? Even if he were somehow capable of separating the genetic material from the cybernetic components they were merged with, the fact remains that at time of death, Cable was above the summoning limit, and Kabuto has never brought back (unless there are scans I missed) a technoorganic entity like Warlock, which at best leaves Multiple man.
Now, I don’t really know anything about Naruto other than what I’ve read on the wiki pages and what PG has said. But one thing that http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Summon...ld_Resurrection says about the ritual is that the individuals revived must reside in the pure world. Within the context of the manga, it is not unreasonable to expect that the dead would end up there. However, in the case of non-Buddhist marvel characters, like Multiple man, Cable, it is pretty reasonable to assume that, on death, they would not go to the pure world at all. In short, my opponents’ inability to summon these characters is so overdetermined it’s not even funny.
Some Basic Problems with my Opponents’ Strategy
Magneto is being used to simultaneously create a contracting forcefield around the battlefield, and shield and cloak both himself and Kabuto. Given the sheer volume of the attack that is being unleashed against their team at the moment the battle starts, this means that either a)Magneto’s defenses are insufficient and he is eliminated in my initial assault, or b)Magneto is fast enough to give up the whole crushing the island strategy and devote all of his powers to staving off my team’s opening assault. My opponents are offering scans of an energy form Magneto to make the claim that his shields can incorporate external energy to make them stronger — but their Magneto is not in energy form, which makes that feat meaningless for their case. Furthermore, this would ignore the rule stating that the limit is “regular” magneto — the same Magneto that has broken into a sweat holding off a squadron of fighter jets. In other words, the best case scenario for my opponents’ team is one in which Magneto abandons their attack plan in order to defend himself and Kabuto from the initial attack, and is severely exhausted by the effort. What’s more, the attack is so massive that even if devoting all of his energies to defense, it still uncertain whether or not Magneto could hold it off.
Legion is supposed to jump into the middle of my forces and disrupt my tech, using his telepathy and precognition. I know he is supposed to have some degree of precog from killing destiny. What exactly are his feats with said precog? How is his telepathy supposed to help him when he is confronted with a giant wave containing an hour’s worth of chronal energy, when only a few seconds are sufficient to scramble one’s brain? http://imageshack.us/f/62/marvelteamup01016.jpg/ Besides the unlikelihood of Legion being able to pinpoint an attack, the scale of my initial assault is such that Legion would be foolish to do anything except try and help keep his team-mates alive (not just the bombs and time-blast either, — remember, my tank blasts from the future are all targeted directly at them). Even if you wanted to believe that Legion was willing to sacrifice his team-mates to make a kamikaze assault on my team in the first second of battle, and that he was able to get past the thought-scrambling time-wave, the limbo-shield around the cube, and was able to locate the correct position of the cube’s bridge within the endless miles of its interior, any attack he made would just be turned against him. In that setting, it would be child’s play to immobilize, depower and kill him, at the same time that his offensive gesture makes my initial assault all the more effective. From there, taking out the rest of my opponents’ team (if they can even withstand the initial assault) is simplicity itself.
In short:
Most of my opponents’ summons are simply illegal. At best, they have a small handful of regenerating ninjas with no discernible accomplishments. The Joseph, Cable, Warlock, Multiple Man resurrections are insupportable on multiple grounds.
Their offensive strategy is totally impractical, and even if it worked it actually plays into my hands, since it leaves them open to my initial assault and delivers Legion to me like a gift-wrapped sacrificial offering.
The best strategy available to my opponents is to retrench and take a defensive position, in which case I still swarm them with high-metas, break down their defenses, and immobilize, depower, and slay them.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
before proceding i think we need to have the legalities cleared up. i'd also like a ruling regarding being able to remain in the time cube, which, as a prep-base is fine, but i don't see how it becomes part of the bf and something they can remain hidden within.... does that mean i could--if we chose next round--bring avalon to the bf and remain there? just curious.....
inimal, if you could make a quick decision on these issues we can sort out what we are able to do and not have to worry about debating something that was illegal.
I asked Inimalist about vehicles before we did drafts. His response:
"In terms of spaceships and such, I'll use an example from Kandy's tourney. Blair drafted Nero from the star trek universe, seemingly for the use of his ship. In a circumstance like this, it is the ship that must be below the limits, regardless of whether the character is (so, you can't draft a meta character that has trans level equipment)
Basically, everything is allowed so long as it doesn't make whatever character you are using stronger than magneto."
In this case, Zarrko and the time-cube together are still nowhere near as powerful as Magneto, so there is no legality problem. Of course, trying to get Avalon with Magneto is problematic because of the stips: because Magneto is the power-cap, any amp to him, however minor, is by definition illegal.
only thing i did that was wrong was saying cable amps through warlock, my mistake. joseph is not as skilled nor touches any of magneto's feats at all, he's a high meta character.
other than that everything else is legal. deal with it
in the scans magneto is enveloped in a field that allows him to traverse the distance between earth and the moon comfortably, and renders him undetectable from two of the best molecular sensors in comics. he then creates a shield around a large tower to seal off the rest of attilan from his intended targets within just because he's magneto and he rolls like that, and that field is good enough to stop the vision from phasing through it, the kinetic impacts of karnak and gorgon, and the hex powers (chaos) of scarlet witch. magneto's shields can block nuclear explosions as well so.....yeah
it's not a stretch for magneto of all people to use his powers to make multipurpose fields, and all the effects i need are easy for him to do, and as you can see it took a simple gesture and the deed was done.
on top of that your tech cimplodes/explodes or shortcircuts due to legion's presence, and then he vaporizes your entire squad. all your efforts are sealed up, and you can play with legion in there.
__________________
Last edited by psycho gundam on Jul 19th, 2011 at 08:00 PM
like i said before: all of simbon's (working) arms get reflected and sent back inwards towards his entire team, and the mach-stem effect will multiply the force of the blasts as they ricochet off of magneto's force-field. magneto is tireless so he can put a lot of concentration and effort into it's integrity.
legion like all the zombies will simple reform after destruction so he can continue to cause havoc till nothing is left within it.
The ship is legal. There is a size limit to this stuff, so like, I wouldn't let God Cable actually bring providence with him, but if you want a solid ruling on Avalon I would look it up
Chronobombs are banned though, no offensive use of time manipulation
EDIT: joseph doesn't have the feats to put him above Magneto or even at low herald
we might be able to infer that from who he was supposed to be, but in terms of versus forum feats and such, I don't see a problem
Unfortunately for Leo and PG, making denials and waving one’s hand dismissively do not actually constitute counter-arguments. Like I said, there are multiple reasons why some of their summons are illegal, all of which would have to be refuted in order for them to be brought into play. The only kind of defense PG has mustered is that Joseph’s feats are inferior to Magneto’s, therefore he is high-meta. But even if you accept that, the simple fact that he can now recover from anything would put him well into the low-herald category. Even more importantly, none of the marvel characters can be resurrected because Kabuto’s ritual only works on souls in the pure world, which means that the only marvel characters he can resurrect are buddhists. Finally, many of those ninjas can’t be summoned because they are low-heralds. The notion that indestructible characters capable of lifting up a mountain or leveling a city with a blast are only meta is absurd. So again, my opponents have given no reason to believe that they have any summons aside from a few ninjas, who appear to have few assets beyond regeneration.
My opponents’ also claim that Magneto is tireless. He is not. (please log in to view the image)
Not only is Magneto not tireless, but there is absolutely nothing my opponents could do in prep to make him tireless. The tournament cap is regular Magneto, and one of the most important limitation’s on Magneto’s powers is the fact that he tires. Anything that got rid of this limitation would be an amp that, by definition, violates the power-cap restrictions. My opponents have also not provided any evidence that regular Magneto can make the reflective force-field they want to make, nor have they shown evidence that, even if they could, that it could reflect the kind of force I’m throwing at them. Not only have they failed to provide evidence that Magneto can do these things, but they would simultaneously have him create a giant contracting bubble (great mental image, BTW) that, if it were done in a comic, would be one of the most impressive feats of his career. In other words, there is no basis for this claim whatsoever.
After the initial blast, and I swarm them with my summons, Magneto’s defenses will be broken like an old pot — my folks with ebony blades can slice right through his shields, Nullitor can turn magneto’s shields back against him, Uroc can absorb them, Deathunt9000 can break them down by latching onto their frequency, the Flying Dutchman can slip through them (his ethereal state is magical, and he is considerably more advanced than the vision in this regard — he one-shotted an insubstantial vision with a hand through the chest), etc. In other words, Magneto and Kabuto are going to have a hard time staying alive just against my summons. When Kang and Epoch attack the fight will be over almost instantly.
As for Legion, his solo attack on the cube only plays into my hands, since my characters can just turn his attacks back against him, immobilize him, depower him, and kill him. The best case scenario for Legion’s suicide mission would be to damage the time-machine in Zarrko’s cube — which still doesn’t touch Zarrko’s other summoning device, the time-displacement dial, and which would also be too little too late, since my most important summons have already been brought in.
@Inimalist: I am saddened by the time-bomb ruling; I thought because they were AoE it would be OK. I can still use the one bomb to power-up Tempus, though, right?
you can use time manip to do anything but directly attack your opponent
you can use it to freeze your opponent, or to slow them down, etc, its just that the time bomb appears to de-age your opponent (or something similar), which is not allowed in the time rules, or in the "unblockable" rule
in terms of the summons, most of what you said is argumentative rather than a question of the rules, I will just say, there is a major difference between indestructible and regeneration *cough* especially for someone who has a team full of time controllers *cough*
so yeah, i'll have joseph pour some power into the shield just in case, though some of the energy you use to try and attack is ironically helping to keep you in jail. oh well.
GG simbon
__________________
Last edited by psycho gundam on Jul 19th, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
good lord..... my condolences to the judges in this match.......
ok, so, the chronal bombs are nixed, no fear of reverting to our reptilian forms. your big bombs really aren't anything for us to concern ourselves with since went in with our shields up, mags is tireless, he has joseph aiding him AND because we've on-panel proof mags can deal with REAL nukes, let alone 'almost nukes':
he's actually handled two of them and STILL had plenty of power left over. now, as i said, he's tireless AND has help. the bombs won't be a problem at all. our shields are and continue to be invulnerable.
i did find this to be a tad disingenuous: I’m not a big fan of attacking one’s opponents on legal grounds – it is a tactic that, to my mind, seems effete and cowardly. But....
you've done it a lot, while simultaneously summoning guys like apocryphus (last and mightiest of the eternals in his world), uroc (who thor has been unable to defeat), achilles (tyndar) who is completely invulnerable to all harm, and giving yourself martian powers (which, with his own tech would place him FIRMLY in the mid herald-low high herald tier).
just sayin.....
anywho, on with the show.
so, since the bombs can't harm us, we have the 'assault teams' still to deal with. hrm. let's review:
team A--robots
team B--anachronauts. they bear a little closer look. apocryphus has metal bracers. raston (this is REALLY COOL) has the ebony blade. ssith has a sword. raa has a spear. tyndar is in full body armor. the fireteam guys all wear full armor.
see where i'm going with this yet....?
team C--unliving legion. again, let's look (most are worthless and no threat whatsoever) wonderman, solid enough, our summons handle him with tp assaults. torch=android/robot. dutchman has metal claws. the others are worthless.
team D--robots
team E--sentinels (robots whom have been destroyed COUNTLESS times by mags)
team F--tempus (see below)
team conscripts: most are fodder to be taken our by even simple tp attacks from our summons or legion. ironman 2020 with his metal armor is helpful for us, as is the second black knight....
damn, that's a lot of guys. however, as is readily apparent, most are less then useless--in fact, many are HURTFUL to their team.
he actually sent full assault teams of ROBOTS and androids against a team composed of TWO MAGNETOS! not only do we shred them, we turn their parts into weapons to use against ALL of them. each robot or android is like a little bomb we can detonate, effortlessly. we then use the parts to kill anyone still moving. even the anachronauts are covered in metal that we could easily control. mags has even controlled MJOLLNIR itself! how helpful will a NON-ENCHANTED uroc (made completely of uru) be a TOOL to be tossed about and used as a club to wipe out huge numbers of our foes! he could be controlled (and WILL be controlled) to block/hamper/club-down tempus for the couple moments it takes to..... take TWO EBONY BLADES away from our foes! i LOVE that attack. the blades will fly through the air, ripping and penetrating ANYTHING! none of our foes will be able to shield themselves from these flying blades. they will be driven straight through tempus, killing him first, then we'll just control them to kill anyone still in our way. there will be so much metal flying around non one will even know what's happening! we'll be stabbing, crushing, and blowing up everything around us, while our summons use tp to confuse and control where possible to enlarge our own forces.
so, your bombs are handled. your assault teams are used as weapons AGAINST you. we've gained a pair of ebony blades that we can use to kill.... pretty well any of you. so..... thanks.
all the weapons you mentioned--diode thing, inverter thingy.... none of them are bothersome to our shields. the diode ko'd some unshielded, unsuspecting avengers. the ss one hit (ko'd??) an unshielded ss who was just dumb. nothing to suggest that any of those things pack more power than NUKES. which, you know, STILL aren't powerful enough. especially since we are untiring..... and there are TWO magnetos.
that containment field thing--i'm curious, where does it come from? have you scan that indicates it is something he can personally deploy as a weapon? how was it created? and are you proposing to encase us while we are inside our own shields? byw, what kind of proof do you have of resisting tp? LOTS and LOTS of tp that is REALLY powerful....
so, for all the text, all your numbers and fancy weapons, you really don't have much.
our shields are invincible. we have one of the most powerfuls telepaths around along with a whole host of other cable-level tp-users (each able to shield themselves, btw) and a veritable smorgasbord of metal to use as weapons against your own team (many of whom will be tp controlled to our side anyway).
kang's own armor can be used against him, or mag's can use his powers to weaken or outright shut down his force field, and epoch is ALSO sheathed in armor.
your guys are taylor-made for us. bad match-up i'm afraid.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 19th, 2011 05:14 AM
