I took this challenge, but now I sit here wondering as I type, why the phuck did I agree to battlezone with these characters? Things would have been much more interesting, using manga characters who are melee base.
The battlefield is not leveled. King Thor does not present enough assets in his repertoire of abilities, to garnish good odds. And so the following 3 factors will weigh a heavy constant in Mordru favor.
Mordru is more powerful. Just prior to the wide-scale reboot. Mordru ascended to become Lord of the Sorcerers World, harnessing the magic across the DCU. Its bad enough that he is quite possibly the most potent Lord of Chaos, who actively sought, and gained the powers of the Lords of Order. If you know your DC, and follow its history. Than you would know that, and that alone places him above Elite Heralds. Tapping into those vast repositories of magical energy, far outweigh Thor with Odin Force, dwindling Thors odds for victory. (please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)
Magical Vampire. The Wizard Shazam learned first hand; Mordru does not wield Magic. He is magic. And as such, he is notoriously known for feeding off mystic energy as a fight runs rampant. This would only lead, with Thor faced with values of diminishing return, while Mordru strength increments as his power scales of as he absorbs the Odin Force. (please log in to view the image)
Functional Immortal. Mordru immortality is unique as a being with no beginning, and no end. A being that predates the universe. He was never born, nor would ever die. He is destined to outlive everyone, to the very end of this universe. I will be deeply amused to see how Quanchi will fend of such attribute. Since this is one of his favorite points brought up, ever since Thanos gained immortality himself. Even in the recently made King Thor vs Thanos topic. (please log in to view the image)
Few Note: Thanks to Galan for a few of the scans I borrowed from his Mordru respect thread. Thnx
And I find it Cheek, and Peachy of Quanchi asking for me to post first. Setting up for a counter argument is definitely not your thing. We all know, no matter how hard you try, you fallback to aggressively back peddle, unnecessarily pot shoot, and low balling every moment that presents itself.
When I offered this challenge the bait was so cleverly laid out there for anyone to fall victim to my trap and you came waltzing right in. Apparently, so overconfident and assured of the outcome you aren't going to see this coming. Your rude awakening begins. Now.
I will agree with one point but flip it on it's head for you. The field isn't level at all. But not in the manner you foolishly claim. Mordru is out of his depth here against King Thor. Thor grew up with one of the most clever mages to grace the pages of comics, Loki. Loki can't seem to ever best Thor so what chance do you think Mordru has against Thor with the odinforce and the conviction to kill/maim/destroy/dominate/subjugate his foes.
I hope you brought your "A" game because Mordru is going to be destroyed.
More powerful, eh ? Really ? Really ? Really ? I will definitely get more into Thor's power in one of my own posts in fine detail I just can't believe you'd say something so utterly foolish.
I do believe I do know Mordru well enough to know what you claim is not only utterly and undeniably false but absurd as well.
So let's just examine this a bit closer shall we. You used a manipulation feat in which he road off the coattails of Captain Atom due to his immunity/resistance to magic in Soulworld to assume himself this world's new monarch. If I had a dime every time Loki manipulated his way to the top through the manipulation of others I'd be a very rich man. This is unbelievably common place for any self respecting mage and it just so happens Loki who is Thor's inferior since practically birth has done so time and time again himself yet just can't seem to best Thor minus the odinforce.
Since Loki is on my mind why delay further and show you what he's capable of.
Loki's transmutation of Bor. This is entirely relevant to your scan with regards to Mordru keeping his identity hidden but unlike Loki in this scan you see before you Mordru needed another to do the deed since he was incapable of it himself.
Due to her enchantments made to mage he'd have no chance. But enough about Mordru and his dependence on others witness Loki's magic. Loki releases him when he needs him to further enact a means to and end.
Bor is also a being on the level of the Odinforce and easily capable of destroying Thor minus the odinforce. Thor himself here admits he'd be dead if not for the odinforce.
Loki taking on a being capable of snuffing out the stars and galactic damage with his Twilight sword. Surtur is roughly/give or take an equal to Odin so Loki holding his own here is very impressive considering the Twilight Sword is a huge amp.
This isn't true most of the time. What benefited Mordru in this situation is Shazam unloaded his magical attacks on him which weakened his cage; the Rock of Eternity. Shazam had the Day Of vengeance Spectre on his way and didn't have time nor the energy to clash with Mordru any further. So it's clear to see Mordru benefited from the situation at hand more than anything else. Mordru is a manipulative jerk and he manipulated Shazam here based off of his fear and paranoia of the Spectre situation made this the perfect opportunity to make a prison break.
Yes, Mordru has thus far been very difficult to permanently kill but death isn't the only way to skin a cat.
I never argued based on unkillability alone because without the power to back it up it can be useless. Thanos the power feats to back up my claims but let's not waste another moment on an argument for another thread. This is my battlezone and you have your own personal Rock of Eternity waiting for you. Enjoy the moment.
His fate is to lose over and over again. No matter who he faces he finds a way to lose. His ultimate fate is being imprisoned. Who wouldn't choose death over being buried alive so to speak.
I think I have definitely countered your opening post, your lack of context, and the fact defeating Mordru doesn't necessarily have to revolve around killing him especially since he's lost many times before and is slated to lose no matter who the opposition is before he achieves his ultimate goals. No matter who Mordru faces another random hero or group of heroes will always be there to shut him down.
On this day he stumbled onto Thor's playground. Bad Idea. Really bad.
I am going to more than prove you wrong I am going to stain your soul forever.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Feb 23rd, 2012 at 10:36 PM
King Thor's advantages
1.Power--The Odinforce makes him extremely powerful based off of the combat feats I will later show you along with increasing his senses as well.
2.Capabilities--Thor has the power to absorb and redistribute energy in with relative ease with his war hammer, mjolnir.
3.Combat experience/Skill--Thor is from Asgard. These are a people who live for combat and battle. Thor is the greatest warrior of all his people who has many, many, many years of combat experience. Thor relishes in combat while Mordru tends to avoid it when he can or tip the deck in his favor when the situation arises. Basically he's a Loki type character.
4.Familiarity with Loki/mages--Loki is Thor's stepbrother so he is used to fighting a manipulative mage who seeks out any advantage or manner in which he can handicap Thor to ultimately defeat him and seize Asgard for himself.
5.Opposition--King Thor has looked far superior with regards to who he has gone up against under his own power. Mordru is constantly looking for artifacts for his own personal aid and has been defeated by the very artifacts he's sought after. Mordru also can be kept off balance and needs to focus to keep his onslaught of spells underway if he is under constant duress it breaks his concentration.
1.Loki (amped)
I'd like to really show off some of Thor's feats of power before the Odinforce upgrade. 'Id" seems pretty confident Mordru is on another level playing field so let's just test this theory of his.
This is Thor vs. an amped Loki who has the strength of the Wrecker on top of his normal sorcerer abilities. To make matters more bleak for Thor Loki uses innocents as leverage while Thor has to worry about reverting back to a human being if he's without his hammer for sixty seconds. Thor prevails despite all the odds/advantages in Loki's favor and only when Thor finally becomes enraged at Loki's reckless behavior with innocents does Thor unleash his power which saps Loki's godly essence.
5.Pluto/Ares--A war god and a death god come after Thor thinking he's an easy target in his current unbalanced state of mind. They couldn't have been any more wrong. In the end they flee from his wrath they weren't the only duo who fled from Thor.
6.Silver Surfer/Adam Warlock--The pair takes on Thor during the same state of mind. Thor was unbalanced and didn't hold back an inch which is why you see him a lot more formidable than he usually was since heroes generally hold back. For this entire arc he didn't hold back and was just dominating most of his peers when they got into his path. The Surfer and Warlock both flee from his wrath as well at the end. This is very impressive imagery of Thor's clear power advantage over these two.
1.Destroyer--This suit of armor was originally created by Odin as a counter to the Celestials. Odin also had other skylords put in a portion of their power such as Zeus, etc. into the armor making this a really powerful weapon against any threat. (please log in to view the image)
To be created to combat the 4th host for the Celestials makes it easy for even the mentally ill to see this armor is powerful stuff. The Destroyer armor has the power to take Odin's life and here in these scans has to act before the visor lowers and attack Loki.
This is further proof the Destroyer is simply above elite top tier in terms of raw power and durability. Look at the ease in which the Destroyer armor shakes off both Thor and the rest of the Avengers attacks. This first confrontation ends with classic Thor's death.
The battle then resumes with the Avengers fighting on minus Thor. They eventually get worked but Thor returns to life and bfr's the destroyer armor safely out of harm's way. This is a pivotal feat showing off Thor's advantage due to his capabilities. When Thor realizes brute force won't get the job done he uses his capabilities with his war hammer to rectify the situation. Thor doesn't always pound away at something to make it go away contrary to popular belief. Thor usually is powerful enough to beat most foes if he pounds away at them long enough but occasionally when the situation arises and his power isn't enough Thor still uses his capabilities to deal with the problem.
Now keep in mind I just showed another example of classic Thor minus the Odinforce fighting someone out of his league and still coming out on top in the end.
2.Desak--A being with an immunity to the powers of the gods. This guy was basically built to kick the gods teeth in. Desak is a threat to Oympus, Asgard, and pretty much gods everywhere.
Here are the scans further elaborating on what kind of threat he is to the gods as a whole not just a particular pantheon. This is the threat he poses to Zeus and all of Olympus according to the Silent One if he isn't stopped.
3.Perrikus--A powerful dark god whose brethren overran Asgard and were on the brink of victory only to have it snatched from the jaws of defeat due to Thor's timely interference. This dark god later returns and binds Odin. He later takes on and Thor and even partially destroys Thor's hammer with his own weapon.
These are King Thor's major/most powerful enemies he squares off against later with the Odinforce. As you can see they are all teamwreckers with some pretty impressive feats under their belts. I want you to pay close attention to Desak as the most impressive foe King Thor will ever face due to his immunity to gods powers. I haven't even gotten to King Thor's impressive feats yet. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Feb 25th, 2012 at 06:25 AM
Back Peddling. Your attempting to bring up a point that fails to counter...well anything really. Nothing you said, takes away the fact that Mordru walks in as the new lord of the Sorcerer's World.
Thank You for wonderfully omitting the fact that, Nathan was needed due Mirabai Hex magic. Which dwindles opposing mystics of their magical ability. Dont forget both Loki, and Mordru are Godling who's essence tap into magical energies. Loki himself would not have fared any better.
Setting up for a fail comparison between Mordru disguise, vs Loki matter manipulation??? Your making a serious attempt to deflate Mordru, and raise Loki stock just to establish a skewed abc logic? Really Quanchi? Really?
A better comparison would have been Mordru matter manipulating the entire JSA vs Loki on Bor. Mordru being the clear superior since Sentinel was among the effected, and in the heat of battle. Where Loki relied on some deception, to conjure his spell.
Pot Shot. Taking a jab over a comment, that can be said about just about virtually every major mainstream villain is unbelievably stupid. In case you didn't know, on these forum encounters characters are removed from PIS. As in the case with Mordru, and his losses. Losses that are largely due to extravagant plot devices, that are not present for Thor to replicate.
And who are these teams of people he lost to? Modern JSA, and Legion of Superheros. Hardly a cookie cutter team, which depend on PIS to establish said victory.
Though PIS is largely, look down. Its understandable for you to seek out, and shield yourself with it.
Low Ball. Every one will get tagged by those in the lower weight class. Its just the nature of beast, when you have strong characters filled with weak opposition.
Case n' Point. Captain America rocked him, and Mystic stone powered Ironman went on a trading contest with King Thor.
In the end little was established, and nothing was countered. King Thor is not beating an Immortal Magical Vamp. Not when said character is vastly more powerful than himself.
Quanchi. I targeted key points. Broke them down. And explained why they are not worth bringing up. This is how you counter a post. Not your mindless dribble, with a wall of text, image spamming a characters abilities. If I want see how potent a character is. Onedumbgo respect thread does a much better job. Tell you what? Take a break. Ask him if he could argue for you?
What does Mordru taking over Sorcerer's world have to do with a one on one fight with King Thor ? Absolutely nothing. It's another carefully thought out manipulation feat just like Loki's. I am just saying using that is a pretty poor attempt at anything relevant to a one on one fight with King Thor. I used Loki as an example of a similar mage who uses his carefully thought out plans as a way to attack Asgard and Thor. Thor is used to these kind of sneaky types but it really doesn't matter in the end as there isn't any prep involved so Mordru won't be sneaking around.
I never once said or implied Loki would have fared better in this situation I simply used a Loki feat in which he took out a much more powerful character than himself. Again it doesn't matter if Mordru became the monarch of Sorcerer's World as it has no bearing on this fight whatsoever. It's cool and all but then again so is King Thor ruling over earth for over a century.
Your example isn't relevant to a one on one fight between the two characters and is centered around the fact Mordru had prep.Mordru doesn't have prep here so once again irrelevant to our battlezone.
I could have used Loki taking on the Thor Corps and handing them their asses but I went for an example of Loki taking on a much more powerful character than himself through prep and by surprise. If you missed it the key word is prep.You seem to want to skim over the most important details of these feats revolved around careful preparation. You want to ignore both of these feats revolved around meticulous preparation. Neither situation is relevant to the thread but I wanted to one-up you.
Mostly all characters in major arcs go down to plot devices it's a flawed argument. I mean Thor's hammer has been used as a plot device as has fate's helmet. We don't just ignore losses just to make it convenient for your argument. I will explain how Thor is going to win. If my case is so ludicrous you have nothing to fear and I won't be arguing for anything outside of Thor's abilities.
It's just silly to use his fate as some sort of proof of anything over King Thor. Mordru can lose. Mordru will lose. Killing Mordru isn't the only avenue to victory here.
I never said they were cookie cutter teams I simply said his fate is to consistently lose and to be trapped/confined which scares the sh-- out of him.
It's understandable for you to use the old PIS excuse. It's one thing you won't ever hear me say. Ever. All we have is what the writer gives us and to make exceptions on what counts and what doesn't is entirely subjective. Argue based on what he's able to do but don't cry PIS because that will never erase his losses. What's canon is canon. Imprisoning Mordru has happened how many times now ? You want to just dismiss the manner in which he consistently goes down to sell your argument. You brought up the fact he's immortal so don't act like it isn't fair for me to bring up the manner in which he was defeated from the same friggin' arc.
Captain America and Iron Man didn't defeat him or seriously injure him. Iron Man used a material empowered by King Thor as a plot device against him. Iron Man still wasn't going to win. Captain America also went up against him later on in the future in an end game type fashion. One man died one man lived. One man wasn't even fully powered.
King Thor is far more powerful than Mordru and has the ability to beat him. You didn't prove anything about Mordru's power advantage you just made a random claim and forgot the number one rule of debating. If you make a claim back it up with evidence. You just assumed Mordru is more powerful while I already gave and broke down Thor's power feats at a classic level. People need to see examples of Mordru's power to validate your claim.
That's how debating is done. I claimed Thor was more powerful and I am going to continue to cite examples as proof. You can believe words like "Immortal Magical Vampire" means he wins but you still have to prove it.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Feb 26th, 2012 at 04:55 AM
Through the Odinforce Thor will ascertain what is needed to defeat him. It's well within his range of abilities. Thor can sense great evil and can determine what's going to take to defeat him. Death isn't the only option to send Mordru buh byes.
King Thor also realizes over time to see it's potential (as I have already cited through proof in this very response) and becomes more powerful over time with it. It's plain as day when comparing what kind of power it's capable of against Cap's shield in their first encounter to say their last encounter when he runs into Reigning King Thor in the future.
King Thor
1.King Thor's early Desak battle--Desak is the same character a seer stated could lay waste to Olympus with Zeus if he wasn't dealt with. Zeus has always been compared to Odin as roughly his equal in terms of overall power so it's easy to see this guy is a heavy hitter. This fight takes place immediately after Thor merges the Odinforce.
2.Attitude change--These next scans will show the dramatic change in character after the Desak kill. Thor has since lost his humanity since he earlier expelled his humanity from his person and merged the Odinforce so he handles things differently from here on out. King Thor is far less tolerant since these events have taken place and will only only get worse in time.
3.Containing energy--King Thor directly responds to a threat while in the midst of a conversation with Spiderman to easily stop the nuclear threat and safely transport the energy from the blast away with mjolnir.
4.Perrikus' battle with King Thor--Perrikus is sent by Zarrko in a failed assassination attempt. This won't be the last assassination attempt which fails to take King Thor's life.
5.King Thor's energy used against him--King Thor creates an energy resource far more advanced than anything available on earth which Iron Man later uses to power his own suit against King Thor in battle.
6.Odinforce restoring fallen structures, life, and increases senses--The Odinforce shows it is capable of restoring buildings lost to destruction along with breathing life into a person.
8.Death of Thor's humanity--A failed assassination attempt creates the rift between humanity and King Thor which results in him symbolically and literally destroying his humanity.
9."The Assassination Attempt"--Years into the future after King Thor rules over Earth the assassination attempt of all assassination attempts takes place. Thor's former friends led by Strange come at King Thor with murder most foul in mind.
10.Odinpower forcibly removes mjolnir from Magni's grasp--King Thor uses the Odinpower to rip his old war hammer from it's new owner's grasp. Magni is King Thor's son and is worthy to wield mjolnir. Magni is referred to as the god of strength.
11.King Thor's Final Battle--King Thor's final battle in which he becomes worthy to wield his infamous war hammer of the past and begins to atone for his past sins. Desak is immune to his powers and later combines with the Destroyer in order to destroy King Thor.
***King Thor tanks the blast which incinerates Loki as the Sorcerer Supreme. King Thor then resists the blast and throws his hammer through it even shocking Desak who inhabits it. King Thor slags a being immune to godly energies while in the Destroyer armor with one hammer toss.
What I have shown you illuminates a few different key factors I will now further break down in this specific matchup in my next post. Thor has the power to defeat beings of great power who are capable of mass destruction while specifically created to destroy Thor's kind; powerful gods. King Thor is more than powerful enough to damage and weaken Mordru. King Thor can bfr energy/foes to any location. King Thor can sense great evil and the Odinforce knows no bounds in the face of great evil. Mordru is great evil. I know it's ripe with hyperbole but it perfectly fits the bill for this specific matchup.
1.Use immense power to weaken Mordru.
2.Use the Odinpower to ascertain the appropriate manner in which to defeat Mordru.
3.Bfr Mordru while weakened to win this matchup.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Mar 6th, 2012 at 06:34 AM
This is some serious Red Herring, on your behalf. Are you reading what I post, or do you simply post with blind stupidity? Since its the later rather than the former, I will dumb it down for you.
In no part did I bother to explain Mordru of taking over the Sorceress world. Only that he is its established Monarch, and benefits from a state of farther empowerment.
King Thor contends his contest of combat against Mordru Lord of the Sorceress World. Point. Blank. Period.
Use the Old PIS excuse? are you reading what you type? You monologue a comment, and twist it to present a PIS poor point.
Let me break it down to you.
This is not DC comics, but a forum versus board. And King Thor is by far not a DC hero that fits the description, of the heroes Mordru is fatted to lose.
King Thor is no JSA, or Legion of Superheroes lacking its resources to even replicate the scenes that lead to its defeat.
And there is a heavy content plot devices used to provoke such defeat. Many that are circumstantial to specific plot moments that couldn't possibly replicated here, and now.
Do you understand why post carries little weight? If not Quanchi, your an awful debater.
It does not take away the fact that, he was tagged by those lesser than himself. Its my way of pointing out, how transparent you are in pot shotting Mordru, when Thor has suffered from similar embarrassing moment.
You debate by turning this into a respect thread, loosely establishing any points, inflating your posts with loads of straw mans, and red herrings.
Your comments are all over the place. Nothing is connecting. How does Thor stop Mordru?
Mordru is a bigger beast.
Mordru single handily defeated the JSA with Fate, Hourman, and Sentinel among its ranks. If not for PIS, he can atomize an entire planet, along with Legion of Superheros. Crush the Helm of Fate with his bare hands. And had the upper hand against Nabu, who is above the likes of Odin or Zeus.
Unlike Thor, Mordru would never tire if it comes to a prolong battle. And being unable to kill him, makes it that much worse as the effects of Spell of Onyx Hunger will devour any rampant energy attacks tossed by Thor.
The only possible outcome is Mordru will rip the Odin Force out of Thor in the form of his heart, and feast on it.
I really had hoped you weren't going down this fruitless road but silly me you went there. Nothing on panel suggests his power in relation to combat as him having an advantage over what he's previously held prior to this takeover. To me it's like having access to a power station. The power there directly supplies the entire city but that doesn't make the guy who runs it more formidable in combat just more powerful in station with greater influence and resources. Once again nothing combat related to substantiate this shot in the dark.
I never said he did but these foes are hardly of King Thor's caliber. King Thor doesn't share a weakness for wood either. I've seen Loki up against greater threats with his own bag of tricks and that's someone Thor has routinely beaten into submission Thor's entire adult life.
You made one excellent point King Thor isn't any of these dc he's far greater and more powerful. What do you mean he lacks the resources ? The guy wields the Odinpower. This far exceeds the magic used to defeat Mordru up to this point. I will definitely break this down in my next post. If you pour on force/power it weakens Mordru. Far less power than a wielder of the Odinforce has weakened him with much less experience. What do you mean can't be replicated here ? Thor can weaken him and bfr him out of harm's way. Mordru is just energy in the end and Thor can manipulate energy quite easily with his war hammer.
I went about backing up what I am going to claim. Thor is far more powerful. Thor has familiarity with mages due to his experiences with Loki. Thor's superior power will weaken him while far less has weakened Mordru prior to. Mordru's concentration which is in the end what makes him so formidable crumbles under constant force/pressure. Mordru is just basically energy which I have already proven is a simple task for classic Thor to manipulate for a bfr victory. Mordru won't be killed but he will definitely lose here.
There's a clear difference. Thor's durability isn't dependent on specific enchantments like Mordru's. Mordru needs to keep focused and cast spell after spell you seem him dizzied when his concentration breaks and someone catches him off guard.
I cited various examples of his power showing he's going to weaken Mordru who in fact is energy. Thor can bfr said energy after weakening him to win the battle.There's a reason Mordru can't just come back immediately after he's defeated. He needs the appropriate power and planning to escape his confines/predicament after he's defeated.
1.Pouring on the power through his attacks, breaking Mordru's concentration, and then bfring him to win the battle. Mordru won't be stopped for all time but in terms of the thread he definitely loses.
Absurd. You haven't even begun to prove Mordru is more powerful the only thing one can determine from your scans is that he's a highly skilled/formidable mage. You haven't even proven he's more powerful than classic Thor let alone Reigning King Thor.
That pales in comparison to defeating a being on panel being stated as big a threat as the Celestials or Galactus in Desak. Desak was busy running a train on every god in his path and without being checked was going to rape Olympus which included Zeus himself.
Atomizing an entire planet may impress you but with the likes of these two combatants being discussed I don't even feel it should be addressed. It's like posting a Gladiator feat of him smashing a planet and acting as if this suddenly vaults him past his peers not only that but Mordru never actually did so on panel.
Mordru was also imprisoned within the helm of fate at another time. The helm of fate also reformed in this particular instance as well. Mordru failed in destroying the helm of fate while King Thor completely destroyed the bloodaxe on panel.How is that for a comparison ? If I crack a rock and then rock reforms I really wasn't very successful in destroying the magical rock now was I ?
Nabu formed without a host body which was a desperate maneuver. Nabu wasn't at full power and there's nothing to suggest he's above the likes of Zeus or Odin just another baseless claim. In a battlezone you have to prove these things.
Mordru will tire and his concentration will break beneath the onslaught of Thor's attacks. Good thing Thor has his hammer as well. Energy attacks have hurt Mordru as well while his spells will all come to a halt when his concentration is broken just like it has on panel. Thor also tried energy attacks against Desak and when they failed he didn't persist either. The Odinforce will increase his senses and lead him to the proper solution.
I hope you're excited I know I am.
The only possible outcome is Thor beating him senseless then bfring his broken body to another place of existence for him to stew over yet another defeat. Unlike Mordru Thor hasn't faltered in combat. Thor has bested foes specifically immune to his powers comparable to Celestials in terms of threats to the asgardian people. This is al stated on panel. So yes Thor has fought far more powerful threats specifically created to defeat his kind and come out on top. Mordru has been defeated by far less powerful foes than King Thor and with far less experience.
Every claim I assert I will back up with scans to validate my claims unlike with your claims.
I am sure Id is feeling really confident about now. Saying I haven't even formed a coherent thought just yet and it's just basically a respect thread I put up. I wanted to back up my claims timeline based as to how powerful Thor was, how powerful he became, and through his abilities which will in the end defeat Mordru.
What he doesn't know is I have him exactly where I want him. I like to build up to the moment where you don't see what's coming next. Here's that moment where I go for his throat.
1.Weaken Mordru--If you meet Mordru with powerful force like most foes it weakens them. Mordru is weakened against far less than the power we have seen from King Thor.
An example of an energy attack working against Mordru. Notice the constant immediate force keeps Mordru off his game and temporarily bests him. By forum standards this is a loss.
2.Breaking Mordru's concentration--This cinches the entire debate for King Thor. Using lightning disorients Mordru so he can't utter one single spell in defense. Mordru relies heavily on his concentration as a mage and without it isn't formidable at all. A team far less powerful than King Thor who happens to still be the god of thunder can easily disrupt his concentration with lightning next bfring him thus making this an easy victory.
Mordru can't benefit from the spell of Onyx hunger create if the battle isn't prolonged to begin with.
3.Odin Force--The Odinpower increases his senses to lead him to this solution. I provided the scans earlier in the thread. The power of Odin also knows no bounds in the face of evil; Mordru. Mordru is about as evil as they get. We see the Odinpower slag a being previously immune to godly powers such as the Odinpower on top of being in the Destroyer armor. This feat is far more impressive in terms of power and what it went up against than anything Mordru has done on panel. Play that song one more time, quanchi.
4.Bfr/imprison him-- At his ultimate core he is energy. He inhabits a corporeal body which can be imprisoned. Thor can manipulate energy at it's core easily and can confine someone within an energy prison easily as well.
Thor here displays the ability to use an energy prison showing he can confine someone if he so wishes under his own power. I placed the scans all right next to each other. Looks like my case is coming together there, Idmeister.
Another example of a bfr victory over Mordru. Nabu keeps him off balance constantly changing the landscape in order to buy time and for his allies to deal with him such as Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt easily bfrs him out of harm's way.
^^With each spell you've thrown I've siphoned your magic. I am STRONG ENOUGH to best you. Mordru isn't even as powerful as Dr. Fate let alone King Thor while he needed a prolonged battle to siphon off Fate's power to gain an advantage over a relative noob as the new Doctor Fate.
In the end he's imprisoned and defeated within the artifact of power he originally sought ownership of.
In terms of experience Hector was noobish compared to Mordru and despite Hector's powers just starting to evolve in a mage battle he held his own against Mordru while in the end coming out on top.
You can clearly see from the reasoning how it's easily within Thor's power and abilities to defeat Mordru. Thor has the raw power, the awareness through the Odinforce, and the capabilities to disorient Mordru through lightning while weakening him into either an imprisonment bfr or just a standard bfr. Mordru's a formidable mage but he's been beaten by inexperienced and less powerful foes than King Thor. King Thor took control of his earth while defeating his opposition which consisted of his friends. Thor is used to dealing with manipulative mages trying to stack the deck in their favor through prep and ultimately always managing to defeat Loki. There's no prep here and Thor is a lot more powerful due to the Odinforce than Mordru is capable of dealing with. To break a mage's concentration is to break a mage.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Mar 8th, 2012 at 09:35 PM
A huge case is being build on Desak. For being a foe that had its abilities augmented, and immune to Godly Energies. One has to realize that Mordru was introduced as a JSA villain by the death of Fate. A character with physically augmented abilities, who is immune to all magic was easily taken care off by Mordru. (please log in to view the image)
Mordru owns Infinite Man, and absorbs half of his 'infinite' power [sharing the other half with Glorith]:
Thor's lightning is magically conjured by his Godly powers. Not of natural/scientific elements. The last point of reference where magical lightning was used against him was easily withstood, and absorbed.
After becoming 'bloodlusted', Shazam uses almost all of his power in a single attack against Mordru.... An attack which Shazam was sure destroyed him:
But despite Shazam's best [and I do mean best] efforts, all he managed to do was release Mordru, who then leaves the all but powerless Wizard to face Spectre:
In short, even one of Shazam's most powerful attacks [from within the RoE] didn't even come close to harming Mordru. Uber.
Note: Again credit goes for Galan the scans/explanation.
Desak is the biggest victory is the one over Desak w/destroyer armor. However Mordru took on Nabu head on, and bested him. Nabu who happens to be a God on Abstract level. Not a mere Skyfather.
So he bfr'd the jsa into 8 separate dimensions thus conceding he can't best them. Mordru states on panel through experience he has learned he needs to separate them to best them. Thor cut off from the Odin-power beat the life from the Hulk and the Thing in combat while resisting death/defeat from earth's best with one-sided prep. Mordru didn't even best Alan one on one.
The Destroyer can easily destroy earth when it's visor is open. King Thor tanked the blast and threw his hammer against it's force destroying someone capable of the same kind of destruction. King Thor is a lot more powerful than the Destroyer. I just want to show the Destroyer is capable of what has "Id" rock hard.
(please log in to view the image)
What was this character capable of ? Was this character capable of taking down all of Olympus which included Zeus ? Was this character in the same tier as Galactus or the Celestials on panel in terms of power ? What did Mordru do to kill him ?
Ok, once you answer these questions now let's take a look at someone who is highly resistant (some might argue immune) to magic. Let's see how Mordru fares against Superboy Prime.
^^Not only does Prime literally laugh off his blasts Mordru also ends up following his lead. I am not too impressed with this supposed alpha male.
Ok, through someone else he takes another being down absorbing their power. Cool. Too bad for Mordru that Glorith won't be here to aid him but in the end it probably wouldn't matter anyway.
I already put up the scans. You keep just making statements saying King Thor is a small fry compared to the 5 D-Imp. I'd love for you to provide evidence to back any of your claims.
The imp easily bested him. The only reason he didn't sooner is due to Mordru taking care of Jakeem's vocal cords. This entrapment was a defeat by forum standards. I don't care if Mordru eventually breaks from from his imprisonment he needs to come back within a reasonable amount of time in order to stay in the battle. Later in another arc Thunderbolt easily bfr's Mordru. Here I will use a thumbnail so you can't ignore it.
Merriam Webster's definition of magic--the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces. Thor creates a storm through supernatural means but the properties of the storm are still those of a storm occurring naturally. This definition fits the situation perfectly but read the three thumbnails it's clear this is just a really powerful storm Thor as the god of thunder can easily create. To suggest otherwise shows an ignorance of the character bordering carver level tbh.
False. First off you need to prove it's different but whatever I will put another thumbnail up since you ignored these scans before. You didn't think I was making a case. In the end you didn't see any of this coming before it hit you.
^^^***The atmosphere seems to come alive as the air becomes thick with electrical energy.
Thor--Then I shall call on the winds to blow harder, the lightning to strike with e'en greater force.
The Rock of Eternity has been breached your spell of imprisonment has been shattered. The magic unleashed breached his own spell of imprisonment. Mordru deceived him into attacking in order to break free. Mordru then leaves him to the Spectre after he's broken free.
This was all part of his plan. Mordru allowed him to use his best offensive magic to in effect destroy the very prison he had Mordru locked in. Shazam was weakened while Mordru walked right out the front door.
This interpretation is flawed. Mordru used deception in order to weaken Shazam and to also destroy his own spell of imprisonment. Shazam can't destroy Mordru anyway so it was really stupid on his part to weaken his own spell. This was a great manipulation feat for Mordru above all else.
Mordru never bested Nabu. Mordru took on Nabu who formed without a host's body which reeked of desperation. I already posted the thumbnail. Desak was comparable to Galactus and the Celestials on panel in terms of as a threat to the Asgardians. Not only this but he was immune to godly energies so he's built to kick Thor's ass. Thor showed immense power through the Odin-power with his war hammer overcoming Desak's immunity.
You haven't even proven Spectre is on abstract level. Secondly, here's another character in the end losing willingly to the Spectre. Does this make him abstract level ?
^^^Going by your criteria holding your own for a time and purposely losing to the Spectre puts you at abstract level. I will just for a moment forget you placing the Spectre at abstract level to show you how ridiculous this notion is with this on panel showing which directly mirrors your logic. Atom Smasher is abstract level, right ?
I already debunked this earlier. Mordru had the advantage since he had a host body while Nabu didn't. This was an unprecedented feat but one of desperation in which Nabu needed time and the proper allies to best Mordru.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Mar 12th, 2012 at 06:29 AM
Now the difference between this and the Odin-power is the Starheart is a physical construct of energy you can physically touch. The Odinforce is no such thing. Look here as Alan's friends return the Starheart to him.
The Odin-power is shut off by Dr. Strange's meddling. Here Strange knows something Balder doesn't in the fact that he's taken the necessary precautions to shut off the mighty Odin-power through specific means to make such an incredible feat possible. This is a prep feat Strange needed outside cooperation in order to pull off.
Odin needs the Council Elite of the Pantheons of earth in order to do so.
*****A mage cannot do so under his/her own power. The mage would need Thor's peers of earth's pantheons permission along with the mage's own magic in order to separate the Odin-power from Thor.
1. More Powerful--I wanted to briefly touch on Thor's awesome feats of power at his classic levels along with his Odin-power increase. I think I showed through scans he's clearly the more powerful of the two. I don't think Mordru is a slouch per say but more or less a highly skilled mage who depends on his enchantments to be fluidly cast while under the duress of combat to be effective. Mordru has sought powerup after powerup including Fate's helmet among other things to bolster his power showing he's less powerful but probably more skilled than Dr. Fate.
2.More Durable--King Thor is a lot more durable. Mordru's durability is dependent on his spell casting in combat. King Thor has tanked the Destroyer incinerator beams which fried Loki as the sorcerer supreme to the bone. Mordru is too reliant on his enchantments to maintain his durability while King Thor's is not. That pretty much sums it up.
3.Superior Opposition--King Thor has been been stuck in more desperate situations than Mordru and against certain foes specifically created for the purpose of destroying gods with built in immunities to godly powers/energies. Mordru is usually squaring off against mages which ultimately comes down to higher skill level. We've seen more than once Dr. Fate shoving off the rest of the JSA to face him alone. Thor was never killed in combat. Even when his former friends used whatever treacherous means at their disposal King Thor always came out on top. King Thor always overcame the obstacles which resulted in the death of earth's greatest heroes while he was depowered in a failed assassination attempt. King Thor's greatest foes such as the Destroyer and Desak were compared to the Celestials and Galactus on panel.
4..Familiarity with Mages--Once again Thor's entire history growing up and later combating Loki shows his competence in dealing with a manipulative/formidable/highly skilled mage.
5.Disorient Mordru--I wanted to show how a character can dominate Mordru with electrical energy attacks. The scan made it clear it addled him and kept him confused to the point of being beaten without using a single spell in his defense. Thor is the god of thunder and can easily create legendary storms at classic levels while hurling the collective force/lightning/electrical energy at his foe. This tactic would spell certain doom for Mordru who relies on quick timing and concentration in order to be effective. This is just what the Quan ordered.
6.Weaken Mordru--King Thor has the offensive power output to weaken Mordru through energy attacks. His hammer can redirect/control the energy intended to harm King Thor as well as pack a whallop when it levels/strikes Mordru head on.
7.Odinforce--This power of Thor's increases his senses and leads him to solutions through increased awareness. This would be critical in him determining the road to victory here.
8.Bfr/Imprison--King Thor has shown the power to imprison his foes. Thor at his classic levels realized beating on the Destroyer in the end would get him nowhere. King Thor bfr's Mordru after he imprisons/weakens him.
Conclusion--I have given numerous examples to support my case and my counter argument. What I saw from "Id" was mostly unsupported claims throughout our debate. Every claim I made I supported. It's all based off of comic book showings. The only logical conclusion one can reach is a King Thor victory based off of this debate. To break Mordru's concentration is to break Mordru. His reliability on his concentration is vital to his success in combat. Take this away from Mordru and he's just a punching bag. King Thor is not only more powerful but one of his natural abilities is to hurl lightning/electrical energy at his opposition. This will lead to Mordru's beatdown which results in his bfr imprisonment.
I'd like to thank "Id" for accepting this challenge and to let him know this isn't personal for me. I talk trash and I do it often. It's just in the spirit of debating and would hope to see you in another battlezone again someday.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Mar 13th, 2012 at 05:50 PM
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