Well, where to start...Such a bunch of plans. "Seeing through" my plan is not an accomplishment - it's transparent since I was lazy and used a rehash of things from Delph's tourney. On illusions and clairvoyance
First of all, Vic Sage is an "urban shaman". He links to the "spirits of cities" due to their hallucinogen gas. Not to actual population. All the information his meditations gave him are "overheard street conversations" etc.
Communicating with city spirits is nice and fine, probably a route to Jack Hawksmoor'esque powers... but I fail to see how this translates to true omniscience. Let alone manipulating Earth's magnetic poles.
And speaking of clairvoyance... I've already posted a "spider-sense" scan. Now... psychometry time! http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/136/nxma25zf2.jpg/
Ems' sister is a psychometry specialist but Emma herself can also learn some stuff that way. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...n496012el4.jpg/
Instant learning about Celestial. In fact this is better clairvoyance feat that ones you've showed. I got all the intel on your character, not the other way around.
I'm also faster on the draw (see scans in my writeup) and you have NOTHING to protect your mind against the telepath of my caliber. Welcome to the vegetable-state, darling.
I won't even comment about stretching from "connected to city spirits" to "manipulating the Earth's magnetic poles". That's so absurd that I can't help but LOL. But if more proof of THIS kind of power is provided, I'll give a rebuttal.
Here's some more scan. Some dude thought he was smart enough to mess with top-class telepath via some parlor tricks involving hypnosis. That's what he got: http://s13.photobucket.com/user/age...064013.jpg.html http://s13.photobucket.com/user/age...14-015.jpg.html
And here's Emma's skills to assist the process. Frankly, darling, you are so doomed here.
This link was broken (so I repost it for judge's viewing pleasure) but here's a passive thought projection, not an attack on someone actively trying to resist. Just like Hawksmoor'esque "city-speak" abilities, it can in no way be viewed as a proof of getting into one of the most guarded minds there is.
I have shown you the scans of Emma no-selling THREE kinds of illusions (psionic one that engulfed the WHOLE San Francisco, magic-amped assault on X-Mansion and tech-based one from reprogrammed GenX Danger Room).
What more? http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-3179187/
That feat was given as proof of clairvoyance. Here he lists the sins of a person. Hardly a useful thing here. Not to mention it being given without context...
As for city connection - here it is clearly seen that Vic connects to the spirits of city - not to each and every soul that inhabits it. http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...sort=3&o=28 "Metropolis. Gotham. Central Hub. Star. My Chicago and more!"
He lists CITIES, not their inhabitants. Later he "talks' to city spirits as well.
And the city sends him visions back http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...sort=3&o=30 http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...sort=3&o=34
In fact, what you attempting here is somehow amalgamate Justice "sin-seeing" and connection to the "spirit of city" into connection to the souls of each and every inhabitant of the city. Better settle with what you know, since information overload kills and NOTHING in your powerset prevents you from going insane due to that.
I have shown some clairvoyance feats on my own, BATTLE-related, mind you. Not just listing some random facts to random dude (which may have been gained by mundane investigation). And I'm still waiting on proof of whatever you planned with Earth's magnetic fields. Cities do not control it, AFAIR.
At the very best your guy is Jack Hawksmoor-lite with some unspecified energy projection. Not too scary, frankly.
And sorry for 2 posts in a row, I decided to go at it as quickly as possible with opponent's scan analysis. And since my respectable opponent has 5 scans left instead of my 3, that will give him a chance for detailed outline of his plans. Which is surely needed.
Correct, and if I were only using Vic I would be so limited. However I have combined this leaned ability with the power of Tenison. His power gives him the ability to "see everything you've ever done" when in your proximity. Vic's "urban Shaman" ability simply means that proximity will be the entire battlefield, or as demonstrated with his linking to the earth he has actually accessed the areas of Chicago, Hub City, Gotham, and Seattle as well all while in Metropolis. http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...Page12.jpg.html
Here are two of the scans of Tenison simply seeing everything that an individual has ever done. Literally knowing them as intimately as they know themselves. Imagine that extended due to an Urban Shaman's ability to tap the energy of an area. Yes Vic links to the "spirits, or energy of cities or areas" but the ability to know how to do that extends the range of the power of Tenison. That's where the "all seeing" comes in. As I said Not Omniscience ( that was why I wanted Jarred Stephens to activate his sight with my mind pick)
That's Superman being fooled by Vic's Illusions, And I really can't think of too many people more amped than that. Do you have any idea just how many telepaths Superman has had as enemies?? Of the level of Power they've wielded?? Manchester Black, Dr Bedlam, Brainiac, Ultra Humanite, Hector Hammond, and Validus are but a few that come to mind. Most are on Emma's level and above Meggan's by quite a bit, but they could not fool Superman as completely as Vic Sage could. AND that was without the addition to his power combining that and enhancing that ability with the power of Tenison. Yeah, I'd say that is a benchmark worth noting not ignoring.
Not to mention that before Vic "assumed" the guise of Psychopomp, he killed him. With zero experience and self taught as an "urbane Shaman" he defeated a powerful Psionic and mystic and destroyed him.
Oh and let's also remember that these same "learnings" have allowed Vic to be Equal and in many ways a match for the newly powered up Phantom Stranger. The Same Vic who During Flashpoint ( as part of the olde Universe) was judged for his sins and has walked the earth for Centuries. He can pervade and fool a being of vast power and senses who can fight the Spectre of this new universe and you think this amalgam of yours is in with a chance of fooling him?? he has the knowledge of untold mellinium ( having walked the Earth for all time)
Underestimate him if you wish, but it will prove costly.
I have no problem with Emma accessing the Abilities of the bodies of others and doing well with them. I do however have a question, when has she ever done so to a completely alien life form. Martian physiology is different to that of humans and even mutants. Their race evolved to survive completely different conditions. How does Emma handle that, what experience does she bring to bare to deal with that. Does the Martian brain even work the same way that a human one does? Food for thought, and I'm curious. Let's say she masters it, does it take her greater concentration to do things that are unnatural too her. She may even require a certain level of focus ( detracting from her normal mental levels and abilities) just to breath. The way in which a martian breaths ( having come from a totally foreign atmosphere) is likely very different. MM may even need to focus to breath a certain way to be able to handle our atmosphere.
You say you'll bring up your TP defenses later. may I ask Why, I'm not using TP, my illusions are not TP based and TP defenses will do nothing to protect from them. I specifically wanted the ability to collect knowledge and create illusions in a way that didn't use the normal methods so that the normal defenses wouldn't work.
I see no way that you can determine where I actually am to attack. While I on the other hand who can perceive through even protections of those like Phantom Stranger ( and NOT the old hands tied behind his back one) can determine your location.
the ability to phase through my energy blasts is meaningless if you don't know fro where they come, or you perceive one coming from a different direction and timing to direct your prepared defense at the wrong way.
You have also shown nothing to counter what altered memories can make of your whole combat style. A little tweak here and a nudge of memory there and you'll be fighting like an untrained novice.
Phantom Stranger? That's New 52 feat and shall not count towards pre-Flashpoint pick. "Trinity of Sin" only appeared post-Flashpoint, and the feats of that Vic (who is actually powered one there, a "Wandering Jew" of sorts) have no bearing on post-crisis pre-new52 Vic. I do not remember Question being called Barry Allen or Hal Jordan so he is a new character who happens to be called Vic Sage. I noted that back at Comicvine you did not differentiate between character "eras" when debating, so Vic Sage is Vic Sage is Vic Sage to you, but here it seems you drafted "pre-Flashpoint" Vic. If you drafted New 52 one, then Phantom Stranger feat is legal, but "urban shaman" feats are not available for this era.
You can either have "urban shaman" powers or "cursed to not being able to be recognized by anyone" powers. Those are mutually exclusive. "Wandering Jew" Sage is a different beast from "Urban Shaman" one. That would be like me claiming Ultimate Emma feats for 616 one.
OK since it appears I'm not getting picked up for work for another 1/2 hr now .
For the record, I had and have no intention of claiming those feats for Vic Nu52. I've just been dying to showcase them since I read the issues since of all my fav's so far Vic is the only one who got a COOL reboot. I liked the changes made to Vic for the "urban Shaman" thing and this was a very cool extension.
Judges Charlotte was right to call it and please disregard.
The "Superman is weak to magic" is a widespread and popular misconception. Weak implies that he is more susceptible to it than anyone else. this is simply not the case. He is just as susceptible as anyone else having no specific immunity. So his being susceptible to a magical illusion doesn't translate to anyone with a said specific immunity fairing any better.
Let me know when you can showcase Emma or Meggan seeing through such illusions, or able to counter magic spells. In the scans of Vic with Superman Clark was clearly acknowledging ( or certainly didn't counter) that Vic's Rattles and rituals were able to do him harm, the only thing that might prevent that is Superman's speed. Well I'm afraid you don't have Superman's speed here, not even close. Plus with the dimensional travel capability that my amalgam has combined with his precog, I have an answer to speed
And speaking of reality warpers... Legion? Scarlet Witch? Next time, please
Remember such a nice event as House of M? Well, here is this: http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7281/unledyh.jpg
Emma together with Dr.Strange were the only ones who were able to protect heroes in the end of event from memory warp caused by reality warp. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...ts24page21.jpg/
She was also unaffected by Legion's reality warp in Age of X arch. Legion created whole illusory world where all the X-Men "lived" for the decades of their subjective time. Emma and Xavier were kept under strict supervision during the event since they would have seen through the fake world immediately. In this scan Emma is not amused after learning that Scott was forced to live these illusory decades happily married to Frenzy.
In fact THIS is what you trying to replicate? Sorry, darling, but this is complete unproven speculation. Analysis of Superman ordeal http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...sort=3&o=19
Superman here is NOT attacked. He is shown a glimpse of spiritual world. Nothing that states "erase the lifetime experience etc".
Dr.Strange equated Emma's defense against this stuff to his own, and she was simply NOT affected by Legion's massive memory warp in Age of X (DECADES of illusory life).
Your other scans? Some cheap mind tricks. And PROJECTION of images to someone's head (the scan does not work from this link, BTW, it needs to be copypasted in the browser to be viewed properly). Not "altering a lifetime of memories of top tier telepath".
And I again repost this: http://s5.photobucket.com/user/CATM...510p12.jpg.html
Lady Mastermind's powers were mixed with and amped by the magic of Goblyn Queen. Yet... "Class dismissed".
And this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...n496012el4.jpg/
Gaining knowledge from "psychic osmosis". http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...16gr9.jpg/?sa=0
Combat related precognition. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a...s048-page13.jpg
Everything is completely proven. My clairvoyance feats are more combat-relevant. Multitasking while controlling body functions is child play.
You have NO proven mind defenses. Neither you have ACTUAL feats proving you can mess with either my memories or Earth's magnetic fields. And you still get trashed.
Controlling alien body (more powerful than a young Martian one since White Martians were never dimension destroyers even at height of their powers).
No-selling all kinds of illusions (including tech-based and magic-amped ones)
Combat-related clairvoyance and "osmosis" information gain. I know every move of yours as soon as you think of it, and to me, thought is execution.
Some memory projection, hypnosis and showing spiritual world to Superman. Wow, how scary. I'm so shaking in fear, darling. Entertaining fight, nevertheless. I like it.
Nicely played my lady, but I do believe you've over looked something.
All the these feats are of the power level of Emma. Yes you have Emma's mind but you can only use that to unlock the power of Megan. The choice of Emma gives your the ability to use MM's TP but only hers. Queen of the Emeralds only has access to the levels of power that Megan's body provides. Unfortunately all these wonderfully fantastic feats just don't apply. I will grant that her expertise in the use of TP will make her more efficient. Better able to craft control over others but the actual power level of TP shown by Miss Martian is let's face it, down the rung more than a few pegs from Emma.
And EVEN if you had the abilities of Emma's full power level you would have required the power of Stephen Strange to reproduce this feat. he clearly said in your own scan " those protected by Emma's Frost's psychic defense AND my spell casting". Unfortunately my dear you don't have Stephens spells to draw on ( which would have been over the limit in any case). So this is yet another invalid feat.
Yes i know what your going to say, but isn't that exactly what I'm trying to do with my amalgam. To say that one adds onto the other etc etc. Well the simple case is all the abilities of each of the characters I'm trying to use actually come from the part of the of the character I have for my amalgam. Vic performs ritual magic and has his clairvoyance and connections to spirits and the very planet because he learned how. He taps into the Ki of the planet because of his knowledge on how to do so having taught himself. All of Tenison's abilities are part of his power set. His power comes from his "aura" or Ki, of which Vic's tapping the ki of the earth is a perfect extension and build on.
I am curious how you intend to fight someone who while casually talking to you can do battle with your very life essence on the other side ( the death side of "two worlds"). And this is against someone trained and capable of battling the same way, yet he was destroyed at the hands of Vic. It's also the sort of person who wields such power that he's one of the "go to guy's that gets called upon when you want to put out a contract on someone like Superman.
Or can kill you from afar with attacks that aren't even of a physical nature attacking your life force/essence without you even knowing they were being made let alone a hazard or able to dodge or defend against them.
How will you attack one who can react to and deflect bullets without even knowing they're fired ( and this is without the physicals of Shield enhanced by the added healing of Tenison, or his energy shields, or dimensional travel. Not to mention this is without Tenison's ability to simply know everything about you every aspect of your life.
This is my last post, and I attempted to do my best to summarize the defense of my strategy and my routes of attack\defense.
Nice match, beatboks. May the best debater win this. It was entertaining to duel you.
She quite clearly states in one of those scans that it was the hardest thing she's ever done, it also showed to be a strain on her as she was in tears over the event. This IMO showcases even further that that her power level is no where near that shown by Emma in many of the feats you've presented. I have no doubt that Emma has more skill and concede that she could use Megan's TP better than she does but to say that she can make it have the power level to see through the manipulations of reality warpers is a vast stretch. Megan simply lacks the power to do so. As skillful as Emma is she can't do things beyond the level of the power she has to use and I just don't see how she can accomplish those types of feats with only Megan's level of power.
Statements are great but really not proof of anything. Batman has stated that Wonder Woman is faster than Superman. We all know that isn't the truth. We also have no idea of what Jonn' is referring to when he says "immense telepath". The fact is you presented a feat that shows Megan's limits and finds them IMO wanting.
Seriously a plot win where Emma uses the passion, rage and emotion of her opponent to defeat her?? This isn't an example of Emma defeating someone of greater power, it's an example of her making the person of greater power defeat themselves. Vic is a lot more shrewd than that. He's a lot more in tune with himself. His training under Richard Dragon, finding enlightenment, using his hallucinogenic state ( caused by the gasses that bond his mask) to actually teach himself the ways of magic. these are just some of the things that take this type of win off the table. We are talking about a mind who has outwitted and out maneuvered one of DC's better prep masters ( Lex Luthor). A plan Lex had that was months in the making for the final destruction of Superman was undone by Vic with Guile, cunning and know how.
Impressive to be sure but when you combine clairvoyance with dimensional transport ( teleport) at will just not much of an issue. That's what Xan brings to the table. Vic's knowledge and ability to acquire more will mean full control over Tenison's teleport and as shown he can react even without the enhanced stats of Shield before he's really even known/seen what's going down.
no argument what so ever. Emma's skill will make Megan's TP more dangerous than with Megan using it. Unfortunately Megan just isn't that big a threat so the skill increasing it just IMO doesn't cut it. Against neophytes who rush in blindly and are driven by their emotions ( ^^) yeah but that just isn't Vic. I also concede any point I made about Emma potentially having an issue controlling Megan's alien form.
On this i could NOT disagree more. The Cuckoos area after all, ALL clones of Emma. Their power level is above that of anything EVER shown by Megan. the fact is you have shown Megan's best feat, she stated " it was the most difficult thing i've ever done". She was even in tears relating it, clearly a strain to perform. The Cuckoos all have feats at this level without such strain. hell they have even briefly IIRC held the Pheonix force when Jean died once. If I remember correctly the struggled to contain it and then split it into each of them. That is still WAYYYYYY over breaking the programming of the Dark Side club. The fact that Vic can use his shaman ways to deal with a trained shaman without too much trouble I would say shows a greater level of "programming" than a group using standard programming methods.
Actually I gave an answer to that. You disregarded it as preposterous (I think because I haven't made it clear). Vic's magic is earth based. Based on tapping and manipulating the Earths chi. Tenison's power is based on using the energy of his chi and shifting it. What I proposed was the merger of the two would allow a manipulation of the Earth magnetic field. Where i wasn't clear was that this will obviously be a subtle change. I'm not suggesting for a moment that I can swap magnetic poles or anything major like that. But subtle shifts that will affect the control of Polaris' magnetic power. Combining the precog so that I will be aware when these attacks are going to occur and how will mean I can affect your control enough to be an issue.
It's just a shame that power Emma has to back that skill and make that happen isn't a part of your amalgam.
1. You have presented a counter to my illusions that I believe is left wanting in power to support.
2. You have not presented any defense to the magic attacks in the spirit world I presented last post.
3.My precog gives me enough to counter any speed advantage you may have, and whilst Superman may have been concerned about hurting Vic if that Vic has teleport it would not have been an issue.
4. Instantaneous transportation means i can also be anywhere in the battle field in an instant so your reflexes have to be vastly superior to compensate or even to tag me.
5. I will have a superior knowledge of the battlefield due to Vic's "talking to cities" and them "telling him their secrets". this is also another advantage I have over you.
With all this in this debate I haven't even touched on Shields physicals or the combination of Tenison's healing with his own. I haven't really introduced the feats for that and it would be unfair to do so when Charlotte has no reply available
Beatboks' old man justice vs Charlotte's queen of emeralds
This match was not so much back and forth as the others, but more two debaters who had a plan ready and wanted to stick to that plan. No one was swayed from what they set out to do.
Beatboks; The Shield, The Question and Justice
His spirit attack is really powerful, and its curious nature makes it really difficult to mount a defense against it. It might have been a bit risky bringing it out in the first match, since I believe it's one he'll want to come back to, but the nature of the attack means that it will be hard to find scans of characters resisting. He also didn't let Charlotte shift his focus too much away from his own plan, a tactic which many people seem to fall prey to.
Defences man! There was one, big, glaring weakness in Beatboks' strategy and that was his biggest weakness. I didn't see a lot of arguments against Charlotte's powers, and when she's fielding a powerhouse like Polaris, you're bound to need some specific defences.
Charlotte; Emma Frost, Miss Martian and Polaris
Charlotte's made one of hell of a draft and meshed it into an even...heller..amalgam. Like ID she picked up on the potential for unlocking abilities and powers with your mind-pick. This not only allowed her to front a powerful telepath, but also a really mean defence. When you're bringing a heavy-hitter with an almost sure-fire way to detect your opponent and some really solid ways of either tanking damage or avoiding it, well...it's strong!
You did your best, but had a hard time dealing with Beatboks' spiritual attack. Even with this I think it's hard to point out a particular flaw in your strategy. You let Beatboks send you on the defensive, something which can be devastating.
This was a match with few flaws, which makes it difficult to pick a winner. Either way I think both contestants come out of this one looking real good. I hate to say it, but a part of me wonders if Beatboks lost this one in the drafting stage, being a bit too humble because of his recent brush with judge-lockdown. In my mind, this plays out as a double K.O, with Vic launching his spirit-attacks, leaving the Queen an empty husk. On the other hand, once the Queen has actually sent her attack, there's absolutely no chance of Vic surviving it. I thought Beatboks was going to bring this one home eventually, but the versatility and all-rounded power of Charlotte's amalgam is the reason why I am voting for her.
@judges, when this thing is done ( or when I'm fully eliminated - which will likely be when or if I face chip guy), if you would care to offer suggestion via PM on where I might have improved with these characters that would be appreciated.
In hind sight maybe I shouldn't have held back a few other ideas I had to save for potential later rounds. Just thought I'd given away too much in the main thread during the period I was "dropped out" and couldn't afford to divulge too much more in one match. In doing so I probably hung too much on selling the limitations of my opponent than pushing the envelope on my own character.