Digi wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 12:15 AM: Digi Writeup #2
Thanks in advance to Curry and the judges. Good luck to PG.
Team
Ultimo - Body
Dark Angel - Mind/Equipment/Prep Location
Havok - Powers
General Strategy
I. For the sake of any new judges, I'm going to reiterate the massive, ridiculous amp I'm pulling with Dark Angel and Havok. Her suit can and will amp Havok at or beyond his highest levels ever in comics, making him alone a herald-busting energy wielder.
II. It's ironic that I get to face Iron Man, because pretty much the only thing Ultimo does in his appearances is no-sell Iron Man. PG has three decent picks, but no amp whatsoever for any of them. Thus, his most powerful attacks won't even harm me.
III. I have two tricks up my sleeve. The first is detailed in my prep below, and will render his entire amalgam completely non-functional even before I attack him properly. In her Darkmoor base in England, DA has access to a black box that creates a localized null field that renders technology inert. I will use it on him, causing his...everything to stop functioning.
IV. The second trick is neutralizing the drainer gun that PG is likely bringing. Basically, I'm going to phase the gun into intangibility so that PG can't grasp or use it. It will be removed from the fight before it is a factor. Scans below as justification.
V. As ever, I enjoy having the initiative in fights. To do this, I will be employing my invisibility (that he won't be able to detect with any of his sensors) and phasing. This gives me first strike, and it allows me to dictate much of the match flow. Most importantly, it will allow me to neutralize the drainer gun before he has a chance to use it on me.
The Fabric of the Universe that comprises Dark Angel’s powers IS cosmic energy. As in, an endless source of the stuff that amps Havok to impossible levels. http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5930/x9ik.jpg
…it’s referred to as cosmic energy several times. I can provide more as needed.
And those amps are nothing compared to what I can feed him via Dark Angel’s power.
With this power constantly pouring into Havok’s power set, I can absorb, overpower, or deflect any energy produced, destroy any shielding, and I’ll be able to melt city-sized areas as needed, or smaller areas to fry my opponent or his equipment.
So my plan is simple. Phase the drainer into intangibility. My invisibility and phasing will allow me to get close, and this takes care of his trump card. Actually, the Black Box takes care of it, or the fact that he might not have access to it in his prep...but if you needed a 3rd way that I beat the drainer into oblivion, this is it.
I determine when and how to attack. PG does not. All of my strategies remain viable, and the most likely way this fight will unfold.
Psychobabble
On the surface, it looks like Psycho has done a nice job drafting. However, there's are certain limitations and dubious things he is asking judges to take for granted.
- The overlap between Machine Man and IM is strong. Both strong picks, but it limits his overall power and diversity when they do many of the same things.
- I do not believe PG has adequately justified that Stark would have access to the drainer gun in prep. Dr. Harrow created the gun, and Stark is never - NEVER - seen using it. PG's own scans confirm much of this. Judges, I have answers for the drainer gun, as you've seen. But he needs to adequately prove he'd have access to it, or he doesn't have it at all. Not that it matters, because I account for it, but I'd be remiss in not calling it to task.
- The speed cap is Mach 10, and as such is something of a joke. Ultimo at a swift jog could do about half of that. Angel and Ultimo are capable of space flight. So, moral of the story, please keep in mind that PG does NOT get Northstar at anywhere near his full capacity. He self-neutered himself in drafts by taking a character he can't fully utilize.
May the Odds Be Ever In My Favor
Thanks again to all reading this, and good luck to PG.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c...light105-22.jpg
^ Travels 1200 mph here only, meaning in just the 30 seconds allotted he can cover 10 miles if only relegated to such a feeble pace. At mach-10 he can cover 64 miles, however this nerf is only for preventing speedblitzes in battle, so who knows.
So all that speed stuff is just to move around his HQ that was modified by Curryman to house his resources even better than even in comics, so it's almost not needed.
Don't like to mess up a good thing so he will grab a Stark tech power drainer* (more on that later) and then utilize his body's ability to bond with technology to draw in and control machinery to wear the Extremis plates. Here X-51 adding the weapons of Post to his own arsenal, this will happen with the Extremis plates and connect with them:
As you can see, not only are the cannons his to control, but he can use them as if they were attached to him. Same will occur with the Extremis parts as Tony is the Pilot/mind, and will come together like the Patriot armour does the NON-Extremis Osborn http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums...zps5909472e.jpg
He will then don the armour, any proportion differences will be fixed due to the nature of X-51's customizable nanotech form.
All that's left is to synthesize the antidote, activate shields/psi-blockers, and then activate the drainer which can be left on long enough for Luke Cage's delicate heart surgery: http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums...zps734386d2.jpg
So we have powersets of all types affected by that, and they all get left as nauseous, confused people without powers, Sentry even reverting all the way
back to Bob.
Just read the entirety of my OP. The last part at the bottom in quotation was supposed to be omitted per a later pm (Curryman can post it for proof), so ignore it (?)
Basically, Digi's guy has invisibility and all that, cool, but his energy emission is giving off a thermal signature as well as other wavelengths that will be the same as Superman using his x-ray vision on an area looking for a bomb and a ticking slab of lead catches his eye. Ultimo's so stupidly big that that signature will be unavoidable, after all Havok's power has to be accounted for in the scan you put up as it's an added element not present in Dark Angel's feat.
Won't amount to much. At best it works temporarily and never works ever again, but you won't even be able to utilize it effectively even if Ultimo is able to somehow hold it. My character is too fast and already attacked you from within.
'One hundredth of a second" for the anti-beam shield to erect and nullify that mutant power from causing damage to him forever, actually, you will be adding more power to my character. Cyclops is immune to his brother's powers and vice versa, so it's not without precedent. We know that all it takes is for mutants to generate a harmonious field of energy to negate the effects of their own powers or that of their kin/siblings: Sunfire, Cyclops, Havok, Pyro (once the flames are under his influence), etc but the speed is not set at that...
http://s80.photobucket.com/user/A_F...8-0203.jpg.html
My character's processes are all sped up so .01 is not even accurate anymore.
Northstar's mind isn't relegated to mach-10 like his travel speed is. Every nanite is in turbo mode, every single process.
Well...shit, your plasma is used against you as well as sustenance if it somehow bypasses all the shielding and anti-mutant shielding specifically erected for your character.... My guy cannot be harmed, and even if he is it's easily repaired
intangibility
It's interesting but mostly keeps the heat off of you until you have to make your own moves.
Digi plans on rendering my character also intangible, however with shields erected it's dubious as her power is over the molecular spaces and must be applied to them directly. I highly doubt she'd be able to alter my character's density like that. X-51 even has power over gravity himself. Here he turned Blob's power into a cures by ADDING gravitational attraction to him, so I'd wager he could adapt a means to repair himself even if struck with Dark Angel's field of intangibility. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...Man_02_pg13.jpg http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...Man_02_pg14.jpg
I'd go so far as to say he might be able to get your character out of phase, he's even got more power backing him now as well.
Adapting to anything used on him just takes some time per on-panel showings, now with the addition of Northstar's power that time is almost gone. He attacks within the span of heartbeats, and Tony's tech makes everything easier
My character is a faster teleporter cause his mind is far faster, and has reacted to fractions of a second level situations on-panel. you cannot escape.
__________________
Last edited by psycho gundam on Aug 30th, 2013 at 01:57 AM
PG fortunately didn't try anything new here. Merge together, speed boost, yadda yadda, then grab the drainer.
I, on the other hand, catered my prep and tactics specifically to that strategy in addition to my base amps and powers. And I haven't even finished outlining all my methods of victory...I saved a couple for this post.
Stark Tech Wreck
I want you to look at these instances of Tony (all during or post-Extremis, btw) being rendered non-functional by electrical or EM blasts:
But wait, what about X-51? http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6856/ptkr.jpg
I'm not saying it's a OHK. What I AM saying is that he's far, far from immune to these attacks. And I can specifically wreck him or the drainer with them.
All Your Base Are Belong to Havok
Alex does two things, absorb solar energy and emit and manipulate plasma energy. He can also absorb other types of energy, it's just slightly more difficult.
PG's amalgam is a walking battery for Havok. I can drain him of everything he is, absorb his best attacks, and make his entire offensive strategy moot. Judges, don't let this escape your view because it deprives the fight of its other craziness. The writing is on the wall. I will suck the lifeforce out of his metallic veins.
Like a Fox
You've seen the invisibility, but it's more than just invisibility from sight: http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7003/5bnl.jpg
That's her shielding them from Mephisto's senses. MEPHISTO. PG had some half-hearted attempt at saying something about energy signatures, but I am completely, utterly, invisible.
So, initiative to me.
Second, why is PG acting like I'm going to be blundering about waiting for the perfect time to strike, and allowing him to detect me? I'm not. My entire strategy can be enacted in seconds. And I'll be invisible, phased as needed, and teleporting in order to maintain initiative. He's got a severely depowered speedster (remember, Mach 10 speed cap in the tourney) and no way of making his plans happen.
Outside the Box
Originally posted by psycho gundam "The black box"
lol
It's the size of a Grapefruit. How is big ass Ultimo going to hold that again? Even before you pump him with heat he is too large to hold that in any fashion, now it's laughable, not to mention the heat melting the damn thing before you even get to use it. You also have to slam it into my character's brain stem or something for it to do it's trick, and even then it's not at all powerful enough to do anything
Sorry, but how will he HOLD it?! That's your main counter?
Ok, sure, I hold it with a remote shield around it using Angel's powers: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9140/grrj.jpg
Hell, I could activate it that way too. That takes care of your gripes about collateral damage to it, activating it, and holding it. Weird counter.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Won't amount to much. At best it works temporarily and never works ever again.
That's fine by me. That's all I need it to do.
Again, it's not an EM attack (I already have those...see above). It's a null field that shuts down technology. You WILL be affected by it, and your entire amalgam will go into shutdown. Enjoy that.
....
A lot of other stuff is, imo, still accounted for in my writeup. I could say more, but that's enough for now. Hopefully we don't have any long lapses again at this point.
You'd have to get him that way in the first place and the little field of Dark Angel's isn't enough. you said she could activate the weak black box with it, where? She can hold it without burning it up that's all, you still have the obstacle of getting as close to you need it to be to attempt to take my character out, but he's shielded, too fast, a faster teleporter, and in your character's torso.
-Control-
Your ultimo body can be taken over in a few ways: straight up interface, or nanotech
Of course they will be programmed to do the opposite and take over the mind of your character; they will alter the mind and deconstruct. Just have to be near you to dust you with them, but thankfully my character is in your torso. Tony doesn't even need to reprogram anything manually, just make the nanites that now comprise his body to do as he wishes
-Mephisto-
He sucks sometimes
Marvel demons are bound by deceit. They cannot read minds or any type of stuff like that so him being blind to the presence of DA for a few seconds has no bearing on how formidable your invisibility truly is. Here Satannish, his other, gets surprised to see the full aspect of Mephisto in his presence when he was there the whole time under his nose within Hawkeye. http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/p...5b9c4d.jpg.htmlhttp://s1099.photobucket.com/user/p...8c8056.jpg.html
Demons are limited like that. They can be tricked, Mephisto has been tricked MANY times, and if his 'brother\twin' cannot simply feel his presence greatest enemy's power by a simple trick like that....really doesn't lend credit to DA. Satannish being an arch Demon to boot. Top 5
Your character will be giving off high temperatures and other wavelengths of radiation while being invisible. Those things cannot be masked and they will have a source, especially the omnidirectional stuff you want to use. guess who's faster than you.
-Other stuff-
Havok is neutralized, and the drainer would phuck you up anyway. Plus shields.
absorbing plasma is cool but in only one showing X-51 used that, doesn't mean it's his primary attack type...oh but that's Havok's and his power was countered with ease. Your guy feeds mine. pause.
All of Digi's character's attacks, even the light based ones are perceivable as a thrown football. It goes for his teleporting and everything else. All your attacks are sluggish as they travel outwards.
The speed limitation does ring true, but teleportation does counter that, but what the speed limitation doesn't hamper are non-travel usages of speed, like RPMs for example. Northstar's power can allow my character to physically attack his at stupid levels of speeds.
Short posts aren't bad. I'm saying everything I need to. To go longer would just bloat my posts with unnecessary stuff. Hopefully we can maintain the brevity.
Phase Out
First thing, I want to get rid of a straw man that PG is attacking.
While I might point out that it DID temporarily disable him, that's not the point. The point is: I never used phasing as an attack. As PG's scan here (and another he's used) show us wonderfully, X-51 is incapable of hitting a phased opponent. Sure, he does the little teleport trick with Vision, but that wouldn't even put a scratch on Ultimo.
But Kitty goes right through him, as does Vision. My phasing is a defensive tactic, not an offensive one. It's to ensure that the fight exists on my terms, not PG's. Even if he sees through my invisibility (he won't), he's pretty impotent to hurt me until I say we're fighting.
So, get rid of this straw man. I have at least half a dozen other ways to beat him. I don't need to wade into this shallow trap that PG thinks he's sprung.
Speed Limit
PG's point that he keeps trying to make is that Northstar is fast. That's cool and all, but to reiterate:
- I can keep up with him in terms of travel speed. Both Ultimo and DA are capable of space travel. So any speed edge is ONLY valid at point blank range.
- But, at point blank range, he's in a lot of trouble, because that would allow me to activate the null field...ya know, the thing that can and will nullify his entire amalgam.
Didn't I Already Beat You...
For those that don't follow every tourney, I've actually beaten PG with the drainer gun.
At low meta.
It's not the world-ender he wants it to be. Or rather, it only is if I'm dumb.
Let's go over the ways it's useless:
- My primary plan involves targeting it first and phasing it out of PG's grasp, effectively making it worthless. He has NO counter to this, and I have numerous feats supporting the tactic (see writeup).
- The null field generator that I grabbed in prep will also be useful on the drainer if needed.
- Ok, so Ivo stole it from Tony. Does that make it "standard" for Stark? Judges, use your discretion. A he said/he said back and forth won't get us anywhere. But please note my objection to it as anything approaching standard for Tony's armory. If you don't believe it would be, please remove it from your considerations of PG's prep.
Phase Two
These nanobots. Once released, do they retain Northstar's speed?
Yeah, thought not. Just some common sense there.
Second, what happens when I phase while being attacked by nanbots? Oh, right, they fall to the ground and I'm back to normal. And that's only if your plan goes exactly as your script it, which it won't.
We both teleport. Only I can phase.
Responding to PG
Originally posted by psycho gundam The Shutdown attempt
I'm not doing something like this. I'm generating a null field and/or attacking you with powerful EM blasts, which have been shown to work on both Tony and X-51.
Another semi-straw man. This time he does nothing to refute the numerous instances I've shown of his amalgam being susceptible to my EM attacks (see Digi Post #1 for scans).
Originally posted by psycho gundam You'd have to get him that way in the first place and the little field of Dark Angel's isn't enough. you said she could activate the weak black box with it, where? She can hold it without burning it up that's all, you still have the obstacle of getting as close to you need it to be to attempt to take my character out, but he's shielded, too fast, a faster teleporter, and in your character's torso.
"Weak" is a guess. You have no evidence to suggest it wouldn't temporarily render your amalgam a vegetable.
I can teleport like you. And your vaunted speed won't help you stay away from me if I'm attacking. Remember, travel speed is exactly the same. You're not escaping me if I don't want you to.
Originally posted by psycho gundam -Mephisto-
He sucks sometimes
Marvel demons are bound by deceit. They cannot read minds or any type of stuff like that so him being blind to the presence of DA for a few seconds has no bearing on how formidable your invisibility truly is. Here Satannish, his other, gets surprised to see the full aspect of Mephisto in his presence when he was there the whole time under his nose within Hawkeye. http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/p...5b9c4d.jpg.htmlhttp://s1099.photobucket.com/user/p...8c8056.jpg.html
Demons are limited like that. They can be tricked, Mephisto has been tricked MANY times, and if his 'brother\twin' cannot simply feel his presence greatest enemy's power by a simple trick like that....really doesn't lend credit to DA. Satannish being an arch Demon to boot.
Your counter is to show someone that ISN'T Mephisto being unable to detect Mephisto. That's ridiculous. Not only does it not prove anything, but it doesn't even suggest what you're trying to say or provide a shred of evidence.
It would be like showing Baldur getting smacked around, then claiming Thor would too bc they're both gods. It's just silly.
I must be missing something here. Re-explain it if you must.
Anyway, I only need invisibility long enough to phase the drainer gun. Then I honestly don't care if you find me. We're talking about a few seconds into the fight; then we can throw down like men.
But, back to the main point, Mephisto is a boss. I don't see anything to suggest my plan isn't lock-tight.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Havok is neutralized
He is?! I must have missed that part. Because all I saw was me showing how I could suck the energy right out of your amalgam, and how your most powerful attacks would not only be useless, but would make me stronger (Digi Post #1).
Firepower
Take a look through PG's posts. He's not entirely without offense. He has the drainer gun - PG's prayer to the heavens that he hopes can drag him through the bracket. He's also got some impressive but inconclusive nanotech scans.
He's lacking anything that could do actual damage to me. Like, at all.
The probable response to that battle is that it wasn't against PG's amalgam, which will be much more powerful overall. Obviously we don't have scans against amalgams, so comparisons like these offer our best evidence. But it's an extremely relevant smackdown for several reasons:
1. To show the initial gap in power. Ultimo was tanking about a dozen legit armors and acting like he was swatting away bugs.
2. To remind you that PG has no strength amp, no massive power amp. I can tear him apart with ONLY Ultimo. And that's before strength-amping via Havok, and DA's more esoteric powers.
3. To remind everyone that this is my power level before my own amps. Before adding a herald-buster Havok to the mix. Before a speed and versatility upgrade. I can tear him in two like Sentry did to Ares, then atomize the halves in moments.
Originally posted by Digi These nanobots. Once released, do they retain Northstar's speed?
Yeah, thought not. Just some common sense there.
Second, what happens when I phase while being attacked by nanbots? Oh, right, they fall to the ground and I'm back to normal. And that's only if your plan goes exactly as your script it, which it won't.
Yes, they would retain his power of superspeed (a true speedster) as the nanites are his own body now like Dust, Amelia Voght, and other mutants that can turn into less substantial forms and retain their mutant power over each particle. The main thing is the data processing speed as it will take a fraction of a second for the them do what they need to do, a fraction of a second faster than your character's neural synapses. Everything my character can do is faster than your character's neural synapses, and the beating he can deliver to Ultimo's insides will be effective
Like, lets get into this for a second....
http://s80.photobucket.com/user/A_F...005qg7.jpg.html
Norsthstar blitzes the x-men. Cyclops' beams are useless as he cannot hit him due to his neck and visor being to slow to act, and Emma Frost's Diamond form power transitioning to psi is too slow to activate even though it's described as only taking "a hundredth of a second." Every single thing Digi does is in slo-mo.
Now, add that to the ALREADY fast actions/reactions of X-51 " in a heartbeat" feats and you cannot hope to do anything proactive without it failing before you realize it did. Northstar also packs a punch unamped by this amalgam merger
Note how he was too fast for their energy absorption to be an issue and acid that made wolverine and Hercules have doubts (both Wolverines get skinned alive by the acidic air surrounding them whereas Northstar was completely fine), they even absorb kinetic energy so that stuff you were saying is moot since physical rape is all that's required and will happen in a thousandth of a second. Teleportation is added to that swiftness and the amalgam's boosted durability and strength likewise.
Hercules and Wolverine had difficulty hurting them where Northstar succeeded.
So basically, he's faster a lady who can sift through powers and a guy who fires lightspeed beams from his eyes, both cases attacking in between the window separating the thought and the action, then we have him ripping through a powerful machine that absorbs energy, heals too fast for wolverine/Herculese, and was too fast for it and it's passive Wolverine(s) melting aura to harm.
Digi has no time to act accordingly. He cannot attack, not to mention the drainer's ever present threat
Originally posted by psycho gundam Yes, they would retain his power of superspeed (a true speedster) as the nanites are his own body now like Dust, Amelia Voght, and other mutants that can turn into less substantial forms and retain their mutant power over each particle.
So, skin cells would retain his power?
See, I'm dubious. Those nanobots aren't going to have the same protections against speed that NS has. They'd probably vaporize themselves trying to do anything that fast - yes, including computations.
But it's a moot point. See "The Bigger Problem" below for why.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Like, lets get into this for a second....
This was a bunch of speed feats. Which is fine. But I want to make one big point:
A few of those are travel feats, not reaction ones. Like busting through the Sentinels. You've thrown lightspeed around a few times, like it has any bearing on this match. Let me reiterate: the speed cap is Mach 10. Any feat that involves travel speed, I can match you, because you picked a speedster in a tourney where speed is nerfed more than any other power.
As such, you're not nearly as untouchable as you'd like to be.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Digi has no time to act accordingly. He cannot attack, not to mention the drainer's ever present threat
...which responds to none of my attacks on the drainer gun. I guess you think they won't work. But hey, if you want to keep going with business as usual, I'm not going to stop you.
Originally posted by psycho gundam All the rest of what you mentioned is nonsense
Ok, you're obligated to say this, but that's a LOT of "nonsense" you're sweeping under the carpet with this comment.
Judges, skim my last couple posts to see just how much isn't being rebutted here.
The Bigger Problem
PG's biggest problem is one of visualization. It's not an uncommon problem in tourneys. Because I have my version of the fight, and he has his. Obviously they don't match up.
BUT. The biggest error that can happen with this is when one person ignores large, obvious powers or counters of the other side. In this case, PG's blinders are a bit shocking, because there are several things he hasn't even tried to account for, including the biggest one...
My amalgam is a 500-foot tall energy battery, with an endless source to draw and amp from. And I'd be stupid not to use this to my advantage. So once the opening chess moves happen (my invisibility, drainer phasing, etc.), I'm going to be emitting waves upon waves of omnidirectional energy. It will be everywhere...I'll be bathing in it.
What does this mean for PG? It means he needs to be able to counter it just to get close to me. He can't. I can suck the energy right out of his amalgam, or overwhelm his shields, or shut him down with my null field generator.
What else does it mean? How in the world are unprotected nanobots NOT getting vaporized anywhere near me? Inside, outside, it won't matter. Do they have portable shields capable of withstanding herald-level energy output?
But in PG's version of the fight, I'm a static robot with no defenses that will just sit around and let nanobots infest me without phasing, teleporting, or vaporizing them before they're even near me. It's dumb.
This is the biggest reason I win. I am simply overpowering. Once the drainer is negated (one of about 3 potential ways), he does not have the means to harm me. At all. Ever. The power gap is just too big. Any speed edge he might have (which, again, is only applicable in a couple very specific situations) makes up for none of it when I doubt he could even get close enough to touch me without being burned into ash.
Originally posted by Digi So, skin cells would retain his power?
Those nanobots aren't going to have the same protections against speed that NS has. They'd probably vaporize themselves trying to do anything that fast - yes, including computations.
His brain is super-humanly altered to take in and process incoming data at superspeed, and his cell processes as enhanced, such as platelet generation and mitosis (healing factor). All translates to my amalgam's structure. I've already posted his healing factor and superhuman durability both from high speed forces + air turbulence and straight up toughness as he broke through obstacles without substantial super strength
Originally posted by Digi A few of those are travel feats, not reaction ones. Like busting through the Sentinels. You've thrown lightspeed around a few times, like it has any bearing on this match. Let me reiterate: the speed cap is Mach 10. Any feat that involves travel speed, I can match you, because you picked a speedster in a tourney where speed is nerfed more than any other power.
As such, you're not nearly as untouchable as you'd like to be.
No. Northstar's power is being severely under appreciated and it's your loss. His acceleration, physiology, and psyche is what makes him a speedster, not just his top speed.
Your character is the one that's hampered by the speed limit as you lose a lot more, Northstar can still utilize his myriad speed applications outside of his top travel speed, but that is circumvented by teleportation anyway. I've already posted him being untouchable from Cyclops' lightspeed optic blasts, attacking within the "hundredth of a second" span switch between Emma frost's durability and psi powers, and him being too fast for an Exterminator bot to harm him even with radiation/kinetic energy absorption as well as an aura of high PH acid that was strong enough to put Wolverine on his ass, and he has one of the fastest healing factors in science fiction None of that stuff is even teleportation that X-51 can do, and now Tony's arleady superhuman mind is accelerated to process lightspeed events, arguably making him faster than Northstar....AND his brain doesn't even require the caloric intake for any of these processes to take place any longer (if that even was an issue).
Originally posted by Digi My amalgam is a 500-foot tall energy battery, with an endless source to draw and amp from. And I'd be stupid not to use this to my advantage. So once the opening chess moves happen (my invisibility, drainer phasing, etc.), I'm going to be emitting waves upon waves of omnidirectional energy. It will be everywhere...I'll be bathing in it.
What does this mean for PG? It means he needs to be able to counter it just to get close to me. He can't. I can suck the energy right out of his amalgam, or overwhelm his shields, or shut him down with my null field generator.
What else does it mean? How in the world are unprotected nanobots NOT getting vaporized anywhere near me? Inside, outside, it won't matter. Do they have portable shields capable of withstanding herald-level energy output?
Save it, it was apparent the second Havok was drafted not to mention when the teams were revealed. I commented on how obvious it was , remember?
http://s225.photobucket.com/user/Ma...2_pg07.jpg.html
Anyway, in my OP I made it aware what you want to do was predictable and compensated for it. Simply, the reason Havok himself is immune from his own powers is what X-51 can reproduce in a "hundredth of a second", just like Alex's brother Cyclops (whom X-51 copied).
Originally posted by Digi This is the biggest reason I win. I am simply overpowering. Once the drainer is negated ......
Hold up....when and how? You already oversold you null field, now your means of taking down my drainer--which you are not immune to by the way, just sink past my character's shields and somehow slow him down and such? Get out. My character is too fast for you, it's an in-and-out job you cannot perceive.
The stuff you said that "isn't rebutted" was, doing it over again is annoying.
Originally posted by psycho gundam No. Northstar's power is being severely under appreciated and it's your loss. His acceleration, physiology, and psyche is what makes him a speedster, not just his top speed.
That's again involving some travel stuff. Besides, if your movements can't match your perceptions, you don't actually have the lightspeed feats you're claiming.
Meh, w/e. It's mostly in the judges hands at this point.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Your character is the one that's hampered by the speed limit as you lose a lot more
That's an odd claim. What do I lose exactly? I can still teleport, and can fly up to the speed cap. You have a damn speedster, and you're arguing that cutting his top speed by hundreds of times hurts ME more?!
Judges, he doesn't get the Northstar in any of his scans. He gets a severely nerfed one. Of course there's still advantages to the speed. But the overstatement in PG's posts is ridiculous.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Save it, it was apparent the second Havok was drafted not to mention when the teams were revealed. I commented on how obvious it was , remember?
No, not really. But I wasn't exactly hiding what I was doing. Guessing a strategy is hardly defeating it.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Simply, the reason Havok himself is immune from his own powers is what X-51 can reproduce in a "hundredth of a second", just like Alex's brother Cyclops (whom X-51 copied).
MM isn't a power copier. He adapts, sure, but he isn't rewriting his own DNA to create an immunity in himself.
Basically, your energy is solar and plasma. I've explained this. And when it comes to those two, Havok basically has no equal at this level. Your energies are mine to manipulate.
And the channeling feat, while impressive, is irrelevant. I can exceed that output by a LOT, and redirecting any amount of it back at me won't do anything since it's my very mutant power that allows me to manipulate said energies.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Thanks for the power lol.
Right back atcha.
Originally posted by psycho gundam Hold up....when and how? You already oversold you null field, now your means of taking down my drainer--which you are not immune to by the way, just sink past my character's shields and somehow slow him down and such? Get out. My character is too fast for you, it's an in-and-out job you cannot perceive.
The stuff you said that "isn't rebutted" was, doing it over again is annoying.
By oversold, do you mean "utilized?" Because you don't have a reason why it wouldn't work. You attacked my ability to hold it.
Nanobots would be vaporized. They lack the shielding to even come near me, or exist inside of me (the energy is omnipresent, remember).
The drainer is getting phased out of existence before you know where I am. You haven't shown a counter for this outside of "lol, speed" that seems to be your only possible advantage in the fight. My attack is too well-planned, negates your biggest weapon, and counters the rest of your amalgam thoroughly.
Extra Points
Remember guys, the aura of energy surrounding me will prevent any intrusion. I gave you one example of a visual. Here's another: http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2960/uj7t.jpg
...and again, I'm 500 feet tall and considerably amped. So take that visual and multiply by a LOT.
- Any speed edge is mostly negated by my ability to teleport.
- He can't avoid me phasing the drainer, which is (and has always been) my opening attack after being invisible.
- I've shown numerous scans proving my phasing abilities.
- I've also showed 7-8 instances that prove PG's amalgam is susceptible to EM attacks. That remains on in force, and I can produce massive EM attacks (also shown at length earlier with numerous scans).
Not much that hasn't been covered. I'll try to drag up a couple scans I didn't post earlier and resurrect some points that I didn't focus on for too long.
I.
I don't think this has been posted. It's Angel taking out some attackers in "milliseconds" http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8672/nhds.jpg
My supposed lack of speed has been somewhat overstated.
II.
PG's shields have been his excuse for ignoring, oh, probably half a dozen or so of my attacks that can and will take him out. But I have shields of my own: http://imageshack.us/a/img822/9601/udi4.jpg http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9030/1bvv.jpg
...as well as those from an amped Havok. I still have yet to see the means by which he does anything close to me.
III.
Point of order: Ultimo isn't exactly hollow. I'm not quite sure how that teleport in me thing is supposed to work. Of course, even if he could, he'd be porting into ground zero of my herald-destroying, city-melting energy field. Good luck with that.
IV.
On my phasing:
To clear up a misconception, DA has two kinds of phasing. The first is more traditional; she can reduce the density of herself to phase through things: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/340/t75v.jpg
She can also make her suit (which covers Ultimo's entire body) into a void...essentially a portal, similar to Spot's powers: http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/644/20hv.jpg
I'll use whichever favors me to avoid and/or swallow attacks.
V.
Another point of order: PG lacks amps. He's got a high meta armor on top of a high meta robot, plus a heavily nerfed speedster. Of course they compliment each other in some aspects. But he falls short of greatness.
VI.
As a reminder I have:
- A null field generator that he has no answer for.
- Remote phasing powers that can take his primary weapon from his control.
- Proof that X-51's energy sources and most powerful attacks are basically batteries for Havok.
- Powerful omnidirectional EM attacks.
- A wealth of evidence that both robotic elements of his character are weak against such attacks. Seriously, Tony's been shut down by such attacks half a dozen times SINCE Extremis. X-51 has less showings to draw from, but has also displayed a weakness to them.
I've been providing visual references. Here's another for the EM attacks: http://imageshack.us/a/img96/4773/8bu8.jpg
...so again, imagine that omni-directional EM blast, but multiply the size a few hundred times because of Ultimo's size. Remember, the suit scales with me. It won't necessarily be more powerful (it's already plenty powerful) but it will be much larger and will certainly be able to affect PG.
And again, that's unamped. If you have any questions about who's going to drain whom, or overpower whom, ask yourself if any of his characters could do that. Now remember that Havok is MORE powerful in this fight.
I own him.
VIII.
Lastly, let's remember that PG didn't alter his strategy, he just hoped his regular one would work. Mine was catered to him; included both the null field and phaser draining, and included me getting the drop on him via my mystical invisibility.
That's strategic portion of this. It's the cleverness, the trickery, etc. I out-prepped him with my writeup. If you still think he wins, then I never had a chance, because he stood flat-footed while I adapted to the situation.
The other portion is the overwhelming, inevitable power I possess.
So if you think I win with my opening moves, this match is over before it starts. And if you think he somehow survives, he's still without a drainer and up against a force of nature. He's got an overmatched, if quick, high meta robot that is impotent to touch or harm me.
But please, don't assume I don't win with the null field just so you can consider the rest of our arguments. That's all it takes, really. But if it has to go beyond that, well...
Already posted Iron man shields that laughed off several nuclear class bombs as well as shieldless tanking off a nuclear explosion, and as all these matches X-51 has his own shields that are tailor made for each attack used against him.
'One hundredth of a second" for the anti-beam shield to erect and nullify that mutant power from causing damage to him forever, actually, you will be adding more power to my character. Cyclops is immune to his brother's powers and vice versa, so it's not without precedent. We know that all it takes is for mutants to generate a harmonious field of energy to negate the effects of their own powers or that of their kin/siblings: Sunfire, Cyclops, Havok, Pyro (once the flames are under his influence), etc but the speed is not set at that...
http://s80.photobucket.com/user/A_F...8-0203.jpg.html
My character's processes are all sped up so .01 is not even accurate anymore.
Northstar's mind isn't relegated to mach-10 like his travel speed is. Every nanite is in turbo mode, every single process.
Well...shit, your plasma is used against you as well as sustenance if it somehow bypasses all the shielding and anti-mutant shielding specifically erected for your character.... My guy cannot be harmed, and even if he is it's easily repaired
Same reason Havok's own powers don't kill him at normal levels or at amped x 1,000,000,000 is what X-51 can surround himself in no time. Like I posted he gargles plasma in the morning and cleans his boots with it without shielding, so....
Operation: Uraboros
You simply get tore up from within; all your outer defenses bypassed/avoided
Digi tried to say that the nanites would burn up in the heat, well what does he think X-51 is made of? His nanotech body IS what withstood and absorbed the plasma and he didn't lose any mass while doing so = his body not breaking or losing nanites from the heat.
His black box is nothing compared to the power drainer and he knows it. The black box's range it miniscule and he need to place it right on my character to have any effect. Not the case for my character.
Ok, I'll try to do this keep this short and sweet:
Strategy.
PG improved and tweaked his previous strategy here and there, it was still straight to the point and despite the redundancy I think sticking to his guns was not really the bad choice to make. The one thing I felt wasn't accounted for enough was the phasing, it was ok, but a more solid rebutal could've changed the match to me. Digi did a good job highlighting the fact he had tailor-made his plan against PG, but to me the saving grace of his endeavor was the time spent explaining how things would go in his favor in case things went sour. I think he did this better than PG in a few ways, so I give Digi a slight edge for that.
Digi 1.
Amalgam.
PG's amalgam is again, good in it's simplicity. Teleporting while using the speedester mind and a mechanic body is an elegant way to get around most physical limitations. How much exactly Northstar should be above regular computing to begin with is a bit hard to tell, but the idea of a highly performing teleporting is not bad. Digi did think through a combo to make his amalgam more broken and beyond the stat limits, as far as I'm concerned and in the context of the match, this is a pretty important element of it. Also, Havok is simply an excellent choice.
About split: Digi 2, PG 1.
Debating.
Digi is a pretty throughly debater, so it's really pretty hard to have him beat here. I mean, he really covers lots of ground, and while I don't buy everything he says, the effort and the variations of each argument is part of what makes the body of the match interested. PG wasn't a sitting duck though, he questioned things, brought his own arguments (the question of how to hold a device, when the opponent is counting on cloaking is an unexpected deconstruction, and while maybe it was the right choice to drop it, I welcome the dialectic skill to throw it out there).
So, yeah, about split to me. But under the current rating, Digi still edges out thanks to general strategy.
Just want to apologise for the lateness of my voting. Really didn't mean to make it drag on that long.
Any way, the first thing I have to say is well done to both of you. You both put on good shows, and you both wrote well-structured, layered arguments.
What the hell, then, that I didn't end up agreeing with either of them, and found things that I honestly didn't see as viable on both sides. That's not to say I'm right; I'm just giving my opinion and what I feel is that neither argument, to someone that has the opinions I have, seemed that viable.
So I went about my usual method of trying to distance myself from my own knowledge, and did my best to take things at face value. I realise that my post so far might have seemed hostile, but that isn't my intention, so please don't take things I say here personally.
Okay, so the actual match:
I liked PG's approach from the start, and in the opening posts, he honestly seemed stronger to me. He laid out something that, at first glance, came across as a hard-hitting, strong strategy that could take Digi down. The use of Northstar alone impressed me, and I was happy to see him used in what initially came across as a very clever strategy.
The more I read, though, the more I began to come across to Digi's way of thinking. All jokes aside, I wasn't buying his use of Havok (in terms of the actual scans you posted in support of him at face value), but he made up enough with his other members that it really didn't matter. Why? I honestly felt like PG's reliance on speed (which to me, wasn't as strong as was claimed) left him vulnerable to not just the adaptability of Digi's tactics, but also the power that came with it, which, even with me not believing in the viability of Havok to the extent he claimed, was still enough to get the job done.
So, to summarise, DIGI wins, but only maybe 6/10. PG gave a great account of himself, and it was actually REALLY hard for me to decide. That was how close it was.
Existere wrote on Oct 11th, 2013 06:54 PM:
Interesting match. I think power drainers were a waste of time- in the end, I wasn't totally convinced that either drainer would work. In Digi's case, he just was able to anticipate and prepare for that attack, and in PG's case, it might be one of the clear benefits of such higher processing/reaction speed that he would be able to quickly respond to that particular attack (the Black Box).
It was spelled out for me though that that was the only attack that higher processing and reaction speed was really going to come in handy for though. I love amalgams that can adapt, improve their options of the fly and possess a speed edge, but nothing that I was shown indicated that anything in the X51/Iron Man/Northstar combination would have a response for the overpowered Havok. The ruby quartz shielding was a particularly odd response, given that ruby quartz is, as far as I know, only ever a shield against Cyclops' energy blasts, and so I would have liked to see why that was relevant in this instance and why the whole sibling-power-immunity was even brought up as a point of argument.
As for X51 redirecting plasma blasts, that's well and good, but the scans did emphasize that while he did last out the blasts, it wasn't easy on him, and nothing X51 was shown to do would be substantial evidence against the colossal amount of energy that judges were allowed to just accept that X51 would be going up against.
I would have liked to see greater calling into question the Dark Angel/Havok amalgam strategy. I didn't feel 100% confident in it working upon first reading the strategy but it was never really contended in match.
I also feel like Iron Man was under utilized. He has his own host of energy absorbing/redirecting feats and lots of other weaponry that could prove useful in a match like this.
Anyways, I think there were just clearly benefits to an amalgam that meshes well with little overlap as well as a strategy that is customized and hard to anticipate.
Omega Vision wrote on Oct 10th, 2013 03:53 AM:
Omega Vision's Ruling.
I don't have all that much time at the moment, so I'll make this ruling short and sweet.
I vote for Digi.
Both Psycho and Digi had strong picks and good strategies, but the difference was that where Psycho had two or three ways of beating Digi, Digi came up with half a dozen. Psycho also didn't effectively (to me) challenge Digi's claims of invisibility, phasing, and raw power output. The one claim that I think he successfully challenged was the Black Box--I also didn't see any cause to think it would be a OHKO.
However I also didn't buy that the power drainer was standard equipment for Iron Man when Psycho couldn't come up with a single scan that showed Iron Man using it, and even if that wasn't the case, Digi's phasing it out of reach seems viable. There's Psycho's ace in the hole gone, and while I also discount Digi's black box, that leaves him a slew of ways to put Psycho in the dirt.
In short: Digi's amalgam was just more powerful and his strategy more multi-faceted and multi-layered.
DarkSaint85 wrote on Oct 5th, 2013 10:24 AM:
Good writeup, after reading the whole thing, I have to give it to Digi for his prep, and his powerset as well. Stacking the amps on top of each other, PLUS negating PG, PLUS that Spot void that DA has....
PG, whilst he had a good character, didn't IMHO answer fully the points raised by Digi, who tailored a strategy specifically for him.
That said, neither side seemed to have indulged in any defensive strategies beyond LOL, shields/absorption.