ok, so a low herald BZ for the low herald title belt? oh yeah..... thanks in advance to the judges who will be following this, and to phil for taking up the challenge.
*****btw judges and onlookers, the rules we are following are the amended rules in the rules discussion thread pinned to the top of the vs forum board and opened by id. phil and i have agreed to the rules in play here so there should not be any question regarding what is and isn't legal--i hope.... if issues of legality DO arise, phil and i can hash them out in thread or via pm's so you can focus attention strictly upon who you feel won the match and not concern yourself with legality or illegality of tactics....
prep time: 30sec battlefield: amazon rainforest
now, to business. so, for this match i've elected to use.......duh-duh-duh....... KANG THE CONQUEROR!!1! i figure the guy needs a little respect, so i'm hoping i don't get him killed here.
limited prep time can be an issue for some. kang however has the ability to use even a very short amount of time very effectively because not only does his armor provide him with powerful, integrated offensive and defensive weaponry, but also, because it is a part of his character to use and call forth a vast array of tech from different time periods, mainly from the distant future. kang has always made use of his future tech and has a special ability to reach through time almost instantly to obtain....whatever he would like. here is just one example of kang pulling out a random weapon in the middle of a battle with wolverine and the avengers:
here is another example, this time he doesn't grab his own tech, he gets stark's:
so, with that little fact established, kang sets about getting ready for battle. the first thing he does is summon to his righthand, the ULTRADIODE RAY. here he uses it to ONE-SHOT the avengers. please pay close attention to the effects the ray has on those it hits:
the ULTRA-DIODE RAY folks. oh, and just to eliminate any confusion--i realize that was rama-tut holding the ray gun, but rama-tut IS kang, just kang in his past. he's grown well beyond that young version of himself. to further settle any issues that anyone may have with using rama-tut in the scan, here is proof that kang has full knowledge of ALL the different versions of himself:
so not only does kang possess the knowledge of his younger selves (like scarlett centurion, rama-tut and iron lad), but he also has the knowledge of all his ALTERNATE versions as well. yeah, he's complex, but he is cool as sh!t.
anywho, with the ultra-diode ray in his right hand, to his left he summons this little beauty, capable of burning a hole through the SURFER himself:
with his weapons selected, (and the knowledge that he can swap out weapons at any time or simply fall back on his own armor's weapon systems) kang will enter the battle with his sensors set to detect any signs of life so as not to be surprised. here we see the armor can detect life signs, even if they are time shifted! http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/...ternateKang.jpg
with guns in hand and sensors up, kang does a couple final things. first he calls up his flight pack, as seen here:
****NOTE: as added bonuses of the scan, please take careful note of 4 things:
(a) kang DOES have a flight pack that enabled him to interact and keep up with reed's time sled,
(b) notice how he also demonstrates the ability of his armor to ABSORB an energy attack via a NULL ENERGY SHIELD he called up in the middle of the blast (thor even knew IM couldn't do anything to harm kang!)
(c) the energy shield actually served to POWER UP kang's armor. recall as well the scan i showed of kang possessing all the knowledge of ALL the versions of himself. and lastly, and perhaps most importantly:
(d) the scan shows that kang clearly possesses the ability to TELEPORT. here is another more recent showing of his ability to simply pop in and out at will:
with the screen set, for the final piece of his prep kang activates his own famous personal FORCE FIELD. here are a couple feats showing the power of his force field. here it withstands a close range blast from the SURFER himself:
there are other scans that show his force field's power that i can show later if necessary. suffice to say his personal force field is REALLY strong...
so, to review:
(a) kang summons the ultra-diode ray and the gun that blasted surfer.
(b) kang gathers his flight gear.
(c) he activates his anti-matter screen and his personal force field.
this may seem like a lot perhaps, but as shown kang is able to instantly summon weapons and raise shields, so all of this literally took just seconds to accomplish. the last thing i would like to bring to your attention is his possession of THIS little guy....
i show those scans simply to prepare for the match ahead. i don't unleash him yet, but i wanted the judges and my opponent to know i have already got him, and that i can use him whenever in the battle i choose to do so. and to avoid any possible legality conflicts that may arise--(a) i am ONLY using the version of GROWING MAN that existed PRIOR to hydra getting their hands on it. at this point it is purely a robot construction of kang alone and, (b) kang has been building stimuloids (of which growing man is one) since he was very young. he has used him MANY times in the past, often enough that i firmly believe GM can be considered a part of kang's "standard gear". i could always just reach through time to grab him if needed, i just wanted to be clear in my justification for having him ready.
and that's that. all set defensibly, with scanners up, kang enters the battlefield.
behind his shields, kang immediately scans the surroundings for his opponent. if my foe attacks via blitz, he will be destroyed by the anti-matter shielding. if for some reason he is not, he will be hurt, badly. at that point kang will unleash the ultra-diode ray to further weaken and depower my foe, and finish him with the other gun.
if my foe instead hangs back and waits, i will unleash the growing man robot into the forest. GM will stay close by as an added defense and will begin to strike the ground to gain power and size:
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
phil's opening salvo!
First of all, I wish good luck to Leo and I hope we'll have a good time.
The character I've drafted is Dr Light.
I assume most of you are familiar-ish with the character from Identity Crisis. Moving on from the rape part [for more on that, see Mindset], what you need to know is:
a). He controls all forms of light [more on what that means later]. Absorption, discharge, manipulation, everything that entails.
b). He was basically a loser before Identity Crisis, but was restored to his peak when he regained back his memory.
In my 30 sec of prep time, I will do the following:
I'm more powerful than usual [we'll see what usual means when I go at it]
He is blind not only to me, but to his entire surroundings.
I'm physically immune to damage, and everything that he tries as far as energy attacks will be thoroughly under my control. [that will be demonstrated throughout the fight]
b). Energy forcefield?
Remember how I said in my opening post that it's a bad idea to used energy....anything at Dr. Light? Well, it is. He is, for all intents and purposes, the master of energy, and he's shown that to top-tiers energy manipulators. Let's start with the basics.
He has total control over the electromagnetic spectrum:
He's basically the dude energy wielders wish to avoid since he either straight up takes control of the energy you're throwing around, or just absorbs it to increase his power. He's done this to the Ray [also a top-tier energy manipulator. you might notice a pattern here]:
So, Kang's' attacks are based on two energy based guns. Why is this a terrible mismatch? Because they are based on some very important factors:
a). The corporeality of the opponent. I'm not corporeal. It won't affect me, but it won't even hit me because...
b). The relative stationarity of the opponent. I'm moving at ridiculous speeds around the battlefield [more on that in a moment]
c). They're guns. You know what happens to guns? They can be easily removed. Now, Reed may have failed when he tried to do so here: http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/...radioderay3.jpg
...so finding him is not a problem (that, and the fact that he hasn't tried to cloak himself one bit).
Once I easily get pass his defenses using one of the previously elaborated methods (either as light, or straight up manipulating it away), I knock him out/kill him. Let's take a look at what an omnidirectional one did:
Suffice to say, a focused blast like that is basically a one-shot for, well, everybody.
Need more reasons?
a). I'm much more powerful than there as I've been powering up most of the prep time
b). He doesn't actually see me come. It might aswell be a sucker punch (not that him seeing me and saying "OH Shit!" would change much.
Last edited by Philosophía on Aug 3rd, 2014 at 08:16 PM
so...needless to say, i have some problems with this. lol at a glance that first scan makes light look odd, no doubt. it appears that maybe he is just an energy form. but, the second scan DISPROVES that claim utterly as we can see him actually TACKLE kyle into a building! were he ACTUALLY an energy entity, he'd simply PASS THROUGH kyle, NOT strike him physically. i guess you could MAYBE infer that he WAS energy, and that he just couldn't get through kyle's shield? that seems unlikely to me, AND it's just as good for me as it would then show kyle's force field DID keep light out. either way, those scans aren't showing what phil wants them to show. then there is also this little bit that throws some, er, 'light', on the reasons for light's strange appearance and seeming change in power: http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ia/gl1.jpg.html http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ia/gl2.jpg.html
light had JUST broken out of the power battery, and so his power level was altered. he even says he had never so powerful. so, even if you believe he WAS some form of 'living light', that state was NOT long lasting, nor was it a standard form for light. by the time identity crisis happened, and the titans issues he was showing, he no longer had that ability. if that idea is wrong, it shouldn't be any problem at all to show OTHER scans of him fighting and 'super-speeding' around in a 'living light' form......
conclusion 1: without further support, light has no energy form. even phil's scan shows light striking kyle PHYSICALLY, and even if you want to think he really was energy, it wouldn't matter as that was NOT a natural OR long-lasting state, but rather it was a direct result of his having been in the battery. ergo, no photonic form for him. that, of course, also negates the notion of any sort of 'ridiculous' level of speed--not that the scan showed him moving fast anyway. if you look at it, all we see is light...following kyle out of his apartment.....? after that, the we see him slowly getting....sucked away?? not sure what was going on there, tbh, but again, that is certainly NOT a typical/standard dr light ability--whatever it was.
that out of the way, let's move on to his 'powering up' strategy. again, a special circumstance. in the scan you can see light URGING the titans to keep striking him with their energy attacks, before he finally drains the light in the building to help himself recover from the beating. in THIS case, (A) i am NOT feeding him energy that he can absorb--certainly nowhere NEAR the levels the titans were unloading on him, and (B) he is in the RAIN FOREST! we never specified day or night, but if it is DAY LIGHT there is no chance he is going to be able to absorb ALL THE AMBIENT LIGHT and make me blind. we're NOT in an enclosed space. this is outside, and absorbing enough light to turn day to night is something well beyond him--at least beyond anything he has shown. and if it is night? well, that is self-explanatory......
conclusion 2: no power-up as i'm not blasting him with energy, and we're outside so no, i'm not blind.
conclusion 3: what's that leave? a typically powered, solid form dr light, whom i can see via my sensors just fine. and of course, all he did was try to take away the ambient light--my sensors that can detect even opponents who are hidden in TIME, could EASILY sort through....regular darkness? to find him. in essence, nothing he did in his prep has any effect or bearing on this match.
MY ADVANTAGES:the battlefield--it is very likely we are NOT in direct line-of-sight of each other--rainforests are enormously dense. now, it's possible he could sense my arrival, but i REALLY doubt he could find me quicker than my sensors (which were already scanning the instant i arrived) would find him. with no immediate blitz imminent, and with him unable to superspeed around, i lower my shields, release growing man, then simply teleport behind him and get off a blast of the ULTRA-DIODE RAY with one hand, and with the other, i release a blast of NERVE GAS:
radiation from the ultra-diode gun is also invisible, so nothing for him to actively or immediately control. even if you think he CAN avoid it.....somehow, he has absolutely NO answer for a gas attack. not that he would know i was there or have a chance to react to the blast. i have a sensory and a manoeuvrability advantage in this setting. he has to move around physically and find and target me while i can pop in and out via teleporting at will. but let's say he DOES still somehow manage to get off a blast of some sort. even with my shields DOWN my armor is UBER durable:
as you can see, GM was proof against several types of energy attacks against the avengers and the omni-blast would likely just make growing man even tougher. growing man has a lot of trees he would be able to use. he could just start swinging them or start bringing the whole forest down on top of light.
2. along with growing man though, i also have my NULL ENERGY shield:
reaching the battlefield, i scan and find light among the trees. no blitz is coming so i lower shields and teleport behind him with nerve gas and the ultra-diode ray. as shown, he is very physical and susceptible to back attacks. growing man is also charging in his direction swinging trees and threatening to crush him beneath an avalanche of trees. once i'm behind him (growing man would be a hell of a distraction....) gas or ray gun should end him. if he survives, my armor is strong enough to handle his most powerful attacks UNSHIELDED and he still has to deal with the growing man while i can activate a null energy shield to absorb his power blasts or call forth darkmatter energy weapons which will counteract his light powers, weakening him to the point where he can easily be killed with any weapon i summon from the armory.
why his attacks fail:
1. he really never took into account the battlefield and the advantage it might give me.
2. he isn't in energy form (hence his photo/magneto scan is irrelevant), therefore he is NOT using 'ridiculous' speed.
3. he isn't radically amped nor is the battlefield in complete darkness, not that it would matter.
4. i have no force field for him to attempt to manipulate because as i said in prep--if no blitz is coming, i scan and adapt. i was prepared for either contingency. that allows me the option of teleporting behind him. as i am behind him he has no chance to try and....'force field away' my weapons or avoid the attack in any way at all. he also has the distraction of growing man to deal with. if i DO erect a force field at some point i deem necessary, it is a NULL ENERGY field which will ABSORB his power.
5. even without shields i can handle his omni-blast then adapt my defenses accordingly.
But if there's any doubt about this ability, dear audience, please read the following part.
I'd wager to say it's the most important part of this match since it nullifies all of Kang's defenses and makes his offensive redundant
Let's make light (sorry) on this ability. I'll start with the gross misconceptions Leo has spread:
1). That Dr. Light has gained the ability as a result of being in Kyle's lamp. This is completely false - he has gained the ability as a result of his resurrection, which happens before he is caught inside of the lamp. Let's take a look:
Other examples will be posted if necessary.
The best part is that it doesn't even matter - the ability had nothing to do with his time in the lamp. So even if the scans above were non-existent, he would still possess that ability.
This is another point I want to clear up, since Leo misinterpreted what happens.
Absorbing light and making him blind are distinct things I am not making him blind by absorbing the ambient light. I'm absorbing that to power myself up.
I'm making him blind, the same way I made the Justice League blind, by altering the visible light so that it's unperceivable to Kang: http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/...zpsb5e040fa.jpg
Since I'm on the powering up point, I want to state that:
a). The scene I previously posted where he powers up and omni-blasts the Titans into unconsciousness is at night, within a darkened building.
Now, imagine how much power I have, considering:
a). I'm in broad daylight outside
b). I have more time and space than a few seconds while I'm being physically piled up by opponents
And something that I'm a bit "huh?!" is also this part that Leo said:
[i]The only person out of the two dozen teen titans who hit Dr. Light that used an energy attack was Starfire, once and Dr. Light showed absolutely no sign of having tried to absorb the attack [he was dealing with half a dozen others coming towards him]. The titans's attacks, which were 99% of the time physical, did not, at any point, power up Dr. Light.
That's....a strange point to make, for anyone who has seen the fight.
b). With two guns that he won't even be able to tag me with:
b1). due to the aforementioned blindness,
b2). vastly superior speed I possess,
b3). the fact that I can remove them with a blast and..
b4). beams that I can just as easily redirect towards him.
And most importantly:
Those same guns would be absolutely ineffective on my energy form.
c). Defenses that:
c1). might as well not be there. I pass through them as easily as light does.
c2). that I could manipulate through my energy control.
He summons a 'darkforce' tank-sized gun. I'd like Leo to prove that he can summon something that large. Summoning handguns, which is what you used to prove he's capable of doing it, is not proof that he can do so with something that huge, in mid battle. (this is not prep time)
Now, what is more likely, that a massive stationary weapon, shot literally blindly on a ridiculously fast moving target, while remote controlled, can hit that target before it gets tagged once, or that it doesn't do any of that and it's destroyed?
If he has time to summon the giant, he, too will be blind. I could just let him wander around, there is nothing he can do to me but it would be funny if he mistakenly stepped on Kang.
You might notice there's a pattern of him summoning useless stuff [like in the last post, a dinosaur], in order to divert from the fact that he is vulnerable, both defensively as well as offensively.
Speaking of offense..
His only showing supporting the fact that his armor can even compete with Dr. Light's output is of Kang getting hit by Thor once, sent ragdolling through buildings, landing on the roof holding himself...and then summons a weapon and the Avengers stop.
Superboy has greater durability showings than Kang, among which when he takes savage beatings from Superboy Prime, and Dr. Light one-shot him with an omnidirectional blast. Twice [the first time he wasn't even amped]. Along with a dozen other people, several of them highly powerful (Captain Marvel Jr., Wondergirl etc.)
And I'm using a further amped version of that Dr. Light, exploding that power concentrated just on Kang.
If he somehow isn't dead (because he'll certainly be KO), I can power up and make a similar blast again in moments - he did exactly that against the Teen Titans:
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
POSTS THE THIRD AND FOURTH!!1!
so.... (leo licks lips and claps hands) it gets interesting now, eh? seems phil has gone and snookered me by further supporting his claims in his posts. let's just see what all that means shall we?
as near as i can figure it, this is his plan:
1. he shows up on the BF
2. THEN he tries for the blindness thing,
3. THEN he takes on an energy form
4. THEN he scans for me,
5. once he finds me, THEN in his energy form he assumes he can move.....'really' fast? then simply by-pass my anti-matter screen and personal forcefield
6. THEN once he's inside my personal shield he can blast me to deathness.
well, again, i'm afraid i have a few issues with this. before i get into the problems though, let's go ahead and just straight up assume he can do everything he says he can and take a look at how that works out for him.
futility of darkness
let's say he CAN change the visible light in the area to make it dark. he has NEVER done something like that OUTDOORS recall--making a RAINFOREST dark is HELLA different from making some enclosed space dark.....my EYES might be useless, but...who cares? we're in a rainforest--i couldn't see him anyway! i'm not relying on my EYES to find him. i'm relying on my TECH to detect him. and the sensors in my helmet would be completely unaffected by his darkness. here is an example of the monitor in his helmet spying on nebula from a private dimension!
so, unless phil can prove to me that adjusting visible light ALSO blocks the level of sensors in kang's helmet, i can 'see' him just fine.
next point: his energy form. phil is REALLY REALLY relying on this. in fact, so much so that he figures it alone renders all of my offense and defense null and void. silly boy....
to his credit, he did indeed show a couple more scans to support his idea that light can assume an energy form. however, can he do that WHILE he's still attempting to control the incoming visible light, hmmm? incidentally, i would LOVE to see a scan of dr light by-passing ANYONE'S force field while in a light form. or fighting in an energy form for any prolonged length of time at all tbh. not that it much matters, as i'll show, but it does seem to be an important point in need of further support. showing a magneto scan as he did in his first post is all well and good, but mag's field is NOT kang's (again, as will be demonstrated below) which is based on 40th century tech. let's take another look at his personal force field, just in case we need some reminders of its power.
first, here it withstands ground zero of a nuclear explosion he used to kill an alternate group of avengers:
of course the energy of a nuke is absurd, far more than anything light could unload on me. the shield ALSO protected him from every variety of radiation given off by the nuke--including, clearly, all forms of EM radiation. nukes also, by nature, unleash a nasty a$$ EMP which his shield was able to withstand.
here his shield is shown to be able to OSCILLATE. this one is important:
otherwise the avengers were helpless against it. and the group that couldn't penetrate it included sue storm and sersi, both of whom control exotic forms of energy. the ability of his field to oscillate though is obviously important as it would negate light's ability to simply by-pass it as the frequency would be constantly shifting. in my scans, terminatrix's vibra knives penetrated the normal shield the first time, but once he started the oscillation process, it was no longer able to get through.
here is yet another scan showing the shields ability to withstand laser (amplified light....) fire from someone as powerful as ULTRON:
NOTE: notice in the scan that kang is actually using weapons that allow him to both shield AND fire simultaneously. good stuff, that. wooden shield and sword, indeed..... heh
really though, there isn't ANY type of attack that penetrates his shields. lastly though, but perhaps most importantly, we have a hero who uses energy forms in EXACTLY the way phil wants us to believe dr light can--monica rambeau, CAPTAIN MARVEL:
she has enough juice to power STARSHIPS and hurt a SKYFATHER! lol both of those are feats above light's pay grade i'm afraid. seriously, some of her feats are truly ridiculous. so, yeah, if SHE isn't getting through, neither is light. kang=/=magneto.
i've also already shown that kang possesses a NULL ENERGY FIELD--something phil conspicuously left alone in his last posts... which easily nullifies the energy in iron man's blasts and actually EMPOWERS kang's armor! and on that note: let's assume the absolute worst case scenario for me for a moment. let's assume that while light is making things dark, changing to energy and scanning me, then, while he struggles for moments to penetrate my personal shield, let's say i just stand there and do nothing so he DOES get in. well...... as this month's UNCANNY AVENGERS shows us, it might not be the best idea in the world to just bombard kang with energy even IF he doesn't have a shield up.....
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
problems ASIDE from the ones already mentioned.....
but does anyone REALLY think he can make things dark, change to energy, (while still making it dark) find me and penetrate my shields BEFORE my tech finds him and i teleport behind him and end him? the most likely scenario is still the one i painted earlier--i port behind him and hit him while he's still human with the ultra-diode which depowers him and places him utterly at my mercy. it's simple and pretty much fool-proof.
but let's look at other scenarios:
1. let's say he DOES reach my shields before i find him. as he is attempting to get through, i teleport out of the way and set up a NULL ENERGY SHIELD or i just set the shield to oscillate. his energy form has now been rendered moot. who knows what the NULL FIELD would do to him, but either way he can't do a thing to me. at that time, he will be forced to turn physical. as soon as he does i port again and end him as above.
2. let's say instead of using shields, i teleport some distance and simply phase, like so:
now he would have no idea where i am since he would have no way to pinpoint my physical location giving me all the time in the world (apt, no? heh) to finish him at my leisure.
3. he expressed his doubt in regards to my pulling out the darkforce canon, but that was in part why i showed kang pulling out a DINOSAUR! (he's done it twice, actually) if i port further away, than mask my location via nano-second phasing, i would have time to pull the canon out and bait a trap, or maybe have the growing man try and force him in my direction for a shot. and if you look at THIS scan again:
it certainly wasn't his LIGHT powers that stopped raven from ending him. his hatred overloaded her EMPATHIC powers. her darkness hurt him badly. the canon would certainly do the same and he would likely be physical knowing his energy form had been thwarted in a number of ways.
4. OR, yet another scenario. once he starts his attack, i again teleport away. only this time, i do NOT mess around. forget the guns, instead i draw forth THIS little gem (as i've shown already....):
a DARK MATTER ACCELERATOR that can turn a city inside out. THAT can't be good for dr. light. heh
so, as you can see, no matter which scenario we decide to follow, even if everything goes according to phil's plan, i can still escape his initial onslaught and once i do i have many options available to me to take him out. his ONLY hope is to suppose his 'amp' would be strong enough that he could actually reach my shields and breach them BEFORE i even have a chance to teleport away. given what he does even BEFORE he directly attacks me (as seen in his prep post) and given that even cap marvel couldn't perform that feat, it seems....extremely unlikely that his amp (completely and repeatedly undefined, btw....) would provide him with sufficient juice to perform such a powerful feat so quickly. if it did, he would likely have EXPENDED his amp and thereby lack the power necessary to finish me in my armor alone. there's no good way this plays out for him.
as you can see, kang is simply too versatile. light doesn't have the power to just by-pass my shield, which is what he would need to do, then kill me in the first couple seconds of this match. and he spread his time too thin to really even make the attempt sound feasible. even if he DID somehow break through, it would take a LOT of his power. i've withstood a pointblank MJOLNIR blast unshielded, so i would STILL have a chance to reply, and just recently kang showed his ability to ABSORB massive amounts of energy unshielded. all i need is a single chance, then the fight is completely in my control. i have variable shields, null energy shielding, energy absorption, phase potential and teleporting. i have weapons to depower him (ultra-diode, dark matter, darkforce....) and even basic GAS that can be used to make his life miserable. and all the while he is trying to end me, the GROWING MAN is hassling him. if he turned human, it would be an easy thing for the growing man to smash him on his own, or give me a wide open chance to finish him.
phil initially said this was just a bad match up for me--i think he got that backwards. i have answers for everything he can throw at me and then some.
(please log in to view the image)
Last edited by leonidas on Aug 7th, 2014 at 05:06 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
all righty, so, this is gonna be my final post(s) as i won't have time later on or tomorrow to reply so phil can have at it til the time limit tomorrow.
i think i pretty much got across everything i needed to in the last couple posts but i'll dot some i's and cross some t's.
as shown previously, if he has a light form, he still can't get through my shields before i have time to react and teleport away, or shift my shielding so that it oscillates at varying frequencies so he can no longer penetrate it. here is another option that i have though, should he decide to work at penetrating it in an energy form or should he decide to somehow try blitz attacking the shields:
that attack, as he works at my shield, would certainly come as a surprise and stun him back to human form, at which point i could easily end the fight. and please, do NOT forget--he still hasn't really shown light performing any real combat feats aside from this series:
there, we see light as a laser beam, killing a bunch of people. but i've already shown scans of my shield deflecting all manner of energy attacks (from ULTRON himself no less) and even keeping out CAPTAIN MARVEL/SPECTRUM/PHOTON who is an EXPERT in battling in an energy form and can shift her form into ALL types of EM energy. i think he wants us to believe light can do something like this:
but....he can't. or least ways he has not PROVEN he can--not that it would matter.... and you can see that some force fields (like the one above AND kang's) CAN keep light out even though they can be seen through. hey, that's why it's comics, or, if you'd rather--that is just the way of 40th century science. either way, if she can do all that, but STILL wasn't able to penetrate kang's force field, again, no way light is doing so.
i also have yet ANOTHER defense against his light powers though, whether light is solid and blasting, or in a light form:
an impressive defeat of the VERY powerful merlin by deflecting magical lightning back at him. using the deflector, i could easily keep light at bay long enough to teleport away from him so i can get time to use any of the MANY means at my disposal of finishing him off (see previous post SCENARIOS).
and yet one more option. as shown, he can't get through my force field, certainly not easily. i could always just do this:
he talked about trapping ME in a force field somehow, but it would be easy to trap HIM, then set the shield to oscillate so he stays trapped. battle over, eezy-peezy.
something else he might try: maybe he wants to try and somehow 'control' my force field, or something. i suppose he could try, even though we have no real idea what form of exotic energy the field is made of, nor would we know exactly how the ANTI-MATTER SCREEN in front of me would impact his attempts--in dc, ANTI-MATTER ALSO DESTROYS ENERGY. just one quick scan of some shadow demons and the effects of energy on anti-matter:
now, i'm aware that phil could show scans of heroes working together and destroying the shadow demons as well, but it takes some effort. basically what i'm saying is: we don't know for certain what effect the ANTI-MATTER SCREEN would have on light in an energy form, and that it should NOT be simply forgotten or overlooked as yet ANOTHER defense i have. he has to get through the screen even BEFORE he reaches my personal force field. but, let's say again he DOES try and override my force field. you would STILL need to believe he could instantly by-pass the anti-matter screen then take control of my force field then take ME out before i could teleport away. that seems........exceedingly unlikely.
all right, so a couple more quick things. i don't want it overlooked that kang is also a genius, both scientifically AND, more importantly for this battle perhaps, TACTICALLY. here is a scan showing the full scope of his scientific and mechanical genius, his greatest creation, CHRONOPOLIS:
he built it at the center of all timelines he has or IS conquering. pretty brilliant feat to say the very least. and just how brilliant of a tactical genius IS he? well, let's look at some of the civilizations he has conquered in the past:
kang literally LIVES for battle, it's what he does, and he is brilliant at it. he would CERTAINLY be able to out-think and out-manoeuvre dr light in this scenario if it came down to it.
--antimatter shield, personal shield, ability to oscillate said shield, null energy shielding that if hit with energy actually EMPOWERS my armor, teleportation, sensors and scanning ability, phasing, ability to nano-shift to make myself physically undetectable, armor that, UNSHIELDED can take a point-blank blast from MJOLNIR!
--ultra-diode ray, gun that harms ss, nerve gas, darkforce canon, darkmatter bomb, forcefield encasement, growing man, spectro-wave, guns that allow him to both shield (from ULTRON) AND blast simultaneously, and basically more weapons than you could shake a stick at
his plan is too time-consuming and gives me time to react and adapt. even if he does everything he wants he has no way of breaching my shields before i can teleport and attack. he is forced to either BREAK my shield, or somehow try and gain CONTROL of it or of my armor, but neither would happen quickly giving me PLENTY of time to evade his attack. and he would need to be physical to make the attempt, allowing the growing man to become an issue. AS SOON AS HE IS PHYSICAL, GROWING MAN WILL BE ALL OVER HIM! the SAME growing man who has defeated a TEAM of avengers, don't forget! with my ability to phase and teleport, and the ease with which i can gain offensive weaponry, i could easily set him up for the kill. his options are extremely limited in this battle, while my own are practically unlimited.
i'd like to take the time to thank phil for a fun and intriguing match-up and wish him luck. it's been fun, and for those that don't know--he really ISN'T the a-hole he seems to be.
and of course a special shout-out to bentley for having put together the best respect thread in the forum. whether i win or lose, hopefully i did your boy some justice. thanks judges for taking the time to weigh in on the match and look forward to your verdicts in the next couple days. leo's out--PEACE!
Last edited by leonidas on Aug 9th, 2014 at 04:07 PM
It would be unfair to reply to Leo's last post, so I'll just address the others.
Most of what's written in the following has been done before he posted it (except the final summary part), then I went to see GOTG (just got back from it) which was awesome. Better than the Avengers in every way except the villain. Hope I don't lose points for that one
Anyway..back to the thread.
I. My plan
I feel that when your opponent starts his pre-final posts basically saying "ok, let's go with he can do all of that" after vigurously saying I can't in his previous one, and then barely even trying to argue most of them, it bodes well. With that said, let's go over each of the argued ones once more, and shed any doubt:
1). Turning into light
I'd say this has been so thoroughly examined with a multitude of scans, that it isn't really a point of contention anymore. It's quite simple, Dr. Light has:
a). turned into his photonic energy form and back to his physical one multiple times
b). manifested his powers seemlessly, attacked and fully functioned within it multiple times for extended periods
Kang's shields being useless against him in this form will be tackled in a latter part of this post.
2). Manipulating invisible light.
Well, let me start of by saying that it's a bit weird to argue one of the most proficient energy manipulators in comics, who has manipulated everything from magic and emerald energy to heat vision, has problems turning simple light invisible over the small area we're fighting. That's about as 'low level' as Dr. Light (wink wink) could go, as far as 'depth' of powers is concerned.
But let's discuss this point a bit, and show the scale he's operating. I assume all of you would agree that green lantern energy is much more complex, and harder to manipulate than simple, visible light. Well, here's what happens when Dr. Light encounters a reconstructed OA built by Parallax (Hal):
He is capable of manipulating and absorbing every ounce of it, even the pseudo-sentient Green Lanterns, their attacks, buildings, everything.
In this match, he's just manipulating the visible light inside the forest, so that it's not visible. Something he has already shown capable of doing, even in the presence of Blue Superman, who was helpless, and then thrown away spiraling in the solar system: http://s593.photobucket.com/user/Ma...e040fa.jpg.html
Judges, I don't know if you've noticed and I'm pointing it out anyway, but Leo's plan is basically throwing ping pong balls at the wall, and see which one of them sticks. He said he starts the fight as noted, with:
a). two guns
c). flight gear
d). giant man in his pocked
...and then he just randomly says he does things, that he either forgets he does, or does something that completely invalidates his previous tactic. That can't be more obvious in the post previous to my current one, but let's start step by step. After prep, he first said he does the following:
I want you to remember that this is how he acts in this match, since it's the first tactic he presented. He scans, assuming he will find me first, releases growing man and tries to teleport behind me.
He's actually coming to me, even if somehow I don't find him first.
The funny part? Even if I hadn't blinded him at the start [which I did], he now landed right in the wolf's nest, where he most definitely is completely blind and defenseless [he already was, but he spares me the problem of tracking him down]
And Kang is definitely no Liam Neeson!
Now, somewhere along the way, blind and helpless in my presence, he also summons the darkmatter beam [its futility and vulnerability has been illustrated in my previous posts], which is clearly built-in to his armory, so opening a portal and getting it out of there [i.e. ripping it apart of the whole structure? how does that even work?] is a hell of a lot harder than opening a portal and allowing a dinosaur to walk in: http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/...kmatterbeam.jpg http://s204.photobucket.com/user/En...osaur2.jpg.html
Now, in his latest post, he just straight up ignores his own prep and tactics up until then, and says he does things differently:
Notice the problem? Then he chances tactics again, and summons another weapon [remember, at this point he has 2 guns in his hand, tries to summon another very large, structurally built inside his lab darkmatter beam, and then, somehow also get this]: http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...matter.jpg.html
... that we never saw how that weapon functions. How long does it take for it to take effect? Does it take Kang along? Not to mention, I can simply teleport in another area of the forrest once it's activated, as I've done so over vastly longer distances: http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/...zps4ff70f4d.jpg
...and continue the fight there, assuming Kang hasn't died since he's holding the exploding device in his hands.
In short, what we can discern from here is that, even if my [thoroughly valid] tactic of blinding him at the start and tracking him down wouldn't exist, he'd be kind enough to teleport in my proximity  behind multiple shields, trying to shoot through them with multiple guns that won't affect me  trying to summon impossibly large other tank-like artilery [the darkforce canon], and then another weapon that he might aswell die alongside of.
 [where he'd most definitely be blind and I can most certainly detect him arriving],
 (still waiting proof of him being able to shoot through shields, besides one very ambiguous panel where Kang is just behind one shield, and it's not discernable whether the guy attacking him breached the shield and his beam met Kang's beam, or something else. The funny part is that if he can, he proves that types of energies get through his sheilds - besides him - which, again, doesn't help his point),
Are there multiple Kang's on the battlefield and I wasn't aware of this?
Last edited by Philosophía on Aug 9th, 2014 at 09:46 PM
You might notice that he's rather unsubtly trying to impress you with the amount of straight up force [Thor's fists, hammer, bombs etc.] the shields can take, or how much they can absorb (Iron Man's repulsors? Yowza! That's straight up high-herald power there) without cutting straight to the point - light gets through his shields, all of them, and there's no two ways about it. If light wouldn't pass through his shields, he'd be blind - but it does, as it can be clearly seen.
As for this scan: http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...rption.jpg.html
Is now slowly merging his essence with the omnipotent well a feat for taking blasts of energy? Is Galactus unable to hurt normal Thanos, because normal Thanos managed to absorb the Heart of the Universe? [that was actually a more clear case of absorbing, rather than merging his essence with it, as Kang does here]? No, of course not.
Now, see the scan where Kang blocks Captain Marvel's energy attacks, while saying that she has taken down worse? Well, as it could be seen, she was about to overload it within moments, but you know why it was a bad idea for him to bring in Captain Marvel through this? Well, because..
She completely got through his shields as light and destroyed the circuits in his armor:
First of all, I'd like to add that, again, that since:
a). I can sense him teleport
b). I wouldn't have to bother searching for him
...it would almost seem advantageous to allow him to find me, and have a blind, self-restricting (multiple-shields around him, no way to attack me like that since he has to literally shoot guns towards me), tactically challenged (he's still got weapons to take out of the 'closet', with both of his hands occupied holding two guns that are useless against me, and one of the weapons he wants to take being tank-sized and he has do to that while staying behind the shield). Because look at all of the disadvantages he has, and I'd have him just there, offensively and defensively unable to really do anything.
But the truth is, I'd definitely find him first. The scans have been posted - I can see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, I can sense internal energies, I can sense people teleporting so that will just make him more obvious, I can even sense energies that are in adjacent dimensions, which would put an end to any cloaking method he tries.
What tracking methods does he have?
a). His armor registered life signs when that guy was literally a few meters away from him. I'm an energy dude, zapping around at speeds beyond any he's ever tracked.
With his multiple energy shields around him - that's like holding a candle in a dark room but wanting to play hide and seek. He hasn't taken any precautionary measure to shield himself from my senses in the prep time, and as soon as the match starts, what he does is try to find me and he unleashes the Growing Man from his position to crush trees. I'm thinking what he should have done instead is use his ability to summon a voice amplifier and scream "I'm right here! Come and get me!".
The most important part: in both cases, I'm energy. I'm fast moving energy. So he will never:
a). Have my precise exact location to go to.
b). Won't have the weapons to attack me with.
The scan with Starfire I posted was to show that being shot with dark energy doesn't beat Dr Light How he won, overloading her with light, is of no consequence.
II. Final post summary.
Leo is under the impression that we're in the wild west, and having blindfolded gunfight, but I'm in a completely different genre.
Either I find him first [which is, as demonstrated, I have every possible reason to] or he does - the end results are the same. He can't hurt me. The only two weapons that might give me pause are the tank-sized, extremely vulnerable equipment that fired dark force blast which has no chance of working for reasons I stated in my previous post (http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...22#post14834547), or the latest dark-matter 'greande' which I addressed above, that has never been seen in action, inefficient, easily escapable and possibly a kamikaze tactic by Kang. That's it. The worst part is that he hasn't even summoned these weapons in the prep time or even in the first moments after the fight has started. Not that it would change anything, but that's a tactical mistake.
He's blind at the start of the fight. He's mixing multiple shields defensively, with multiple [useless] weapons offensively, without figuring "hey, maybe I can't do both?". Remember - he's got both hands busy with the other two guns. Say, the last grenade he summons [the fight wouldn't even get to that point, but let's entertain the thought]. He's going to do what, throw it through multiple layers of shields? Is there going to be a looney tunes scene, where it bounces back and explodes in his face? Is he going to lower them and I'm going to be a good guy and just stand there as he does? How is he going to move the large dark force blaster from the armory through the portal? Is he going to ask the dinosaur?
No need for overcomplication. Once we encounter eachother, I simply pass through his shields, as easily as any of the visible light. Even if Kang had the ability to block visible light from entering his shield, self-inflicting blindness [which there's absolutely no proof that he can, and I can't stress this enough, quite the contrary], I can wait it out and peel each layer of shield, since he's basically blind inside an energy ball. Remember, Dr Light has out-energy manipulated cream of the crop energy manipulators like: Green Lanterns (Hal, Kyle, Jade), Energy Superman (in fact, the two times he met Superman he sent him flying out of the solar system, or knocked him out as he was trying to blitz the Injustice gang base) The Ray, Kimyo (the female Dr Light). There hasn't been an energy manipulator he encountered that he didn't blatantly overpowered, and he's met the best in DC.
SInce his shields are not a problem - I start doing damage. I already covered the fact that, at levels of power inferior to what he's having here, he has knocked out people who take extended beatings from pre-Crisis kryptonians [Superboy from Superboy Prime] with omnidirectional blasts. Twice. While simultaneously knocking out dozens of other people, like Wondergirl, Captain Marvel Jr and more. Imagine a concentrat, unidirectional blast at Kang's face. And I can do that again. And again. Before that, I might aswell fry all of his equipment, similar to what Monica Rambeau did, leaving him truly defenseless.
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Leo, I had a great time writing these posts and I hope you had fun too. Weird match-up, great partner to argue it with.
I almost want to edit a swear in there to show you I'm actually an assh*le, dammit.
Last edited by Philosophía on Aug 9th, 2014 at 09:49 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
all right folks, so i'm not going to respond to anything else save this one piece since i suspected phil would find and bring it up. so, let's be crystal clear: the kang in phil's scan was NOT the 'TRUE' kang. THIS scan immediately follows the scan that showed cap marvel getting by his shields:
as you can see, the TRUE kang (the one with the flowing cape.....) captured not only the weak alternate version of himself (and later KILLED him in the same issue) but ALSO captured ALL of the avengers with his tech almost immediately after!
phil can have the last word on everything else, but i couldn't just stand by and let a FALSE kang, misrepresent the abilities of the REAL kang. we all saw what happened when she came across the true kang's shield. checkmate indeed......
anyway judges, i think voting should be open tomorrow anytime and hopefully you can all have your votes in by tues/wed at the latest.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
absolutely. i find it helped in some matches in the past is all. if a judge is not really sure of something, or would like to see an additional proof or didn't "get" a scan or something. it just gives the opportunity for clarity, IF needed, so a judge can make a fully informed decision. absolutely ZERO refuting of anything. it is purely for CLARITY's sake and nothing more.
*at first i thought phil rendering kang blind via absorbing all ambient light on the field would be problematic(how would kang kill what he cannot see?)--but then leo provided evidence which demonstrates that kang doesn't need a visual of of his opponent, when he has sensors that can accurately follow a target across entire dimensional planes and/or across time.
*i also thought phil's tactic of essentially bypassing kang's force-field and blasting his person directly(for a very simple/fast win) was brilliant. however, the fact that monica(who does possess a near identical overall powerset) couldn't bypass kang's shielding w/o trouble speaks volumes here. this was further cemented when i saw proof of the 'oscillate' ability of kang's shields. they are not a static frequency--they are adaptive and can perpetually change in accordance with the threat at hand. this would further hinder light's....penetration .
*even IF light got through kang's shields(which i won't exclude as a possibility), i can't see him simply one-shotting kang ftw, when his physical durability is such that even a direct blast from a pissed off thor couldn't do so. furthermore, we really have no way of accurately quantifying the amount of extra power light would gain from absorbing the ambient light of the battlefield. /shrug
*as for offensive prowess: the fact that kang can simply pull various herald-busting tech out of his ass on a whim(and would go into this battle with 2 pieces of said tech already in his possession thanks to his prep) is enough for me to see him outgunning light--especially when we consider that kang can also teleport to light's precise location on a whim.
*finally, there's that pesky growing man to consider. even though i only see him as fodder, i believe he would still act as a great diversionary tactic at the very least. remember, light wouldn't know that kang brought GM to the battle--not initially anyway.
*in a nutshell: i think kang has superior intellect, superior defense, superior offense, equalized speed(*thanks teleportation*), and a superior diversionary tactic.
anywho, both of you guys did a stand-up job here. i thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts.
"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."
Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 12th, 2014 at 12:23 PM