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KMC Secret Wars: Leo vs Existere
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Blair Wind
The Iron Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: Stark Tower

KMC Secret Wars: Leo vs Existere

KMC Secret Wars Final Showdown
With your host, Blair Wind

Rules

Power Level & Format: 2-character amalgam. One at or below high meta (upper limit examples: Namor, Cpt. Britain) plus one at or below low herald (upper limit example: Magneto)

Total Power Cap After Amalgamation: Mid Herald (upper limit example: Cpt. Marvel, WW)

Post Limit: 5

Self or Characters: We're drafting the characters, not granting ourselves the powers. So CIS is on the table.

Amping Rules: Disallowed. Materials that aid a power (i.e. Jeffries/adamantium) are allowed. Power amping is not (i.e. The Ray + Kara)

Tech Creation & Non-Autonomous Constructs/Summons: Low Herald limit

Prep: 3 seconds in an empty room

TP: Emma limit.

Speed: Up to but not including lightspeed is permissible.

Banned Powers: Speed Force, Time Manip., Duplication, Power Copying, Autonomous Constructs (tech or magic), Offensive Matter Manip., Memory Retention

Notes:
- Dispersal/KO/etc. counts as a win. As will anything that will end the fight for a significant period of time.

LOCATION:
Post Apocalyptic New York

Participants:

Leonidas:
Nico + Nova Prime

VERSUS

Existere:
Dr. Light + Psylocke


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 02:05 PM
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Blair Wind
The Iron Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: Stark Tower

LEO's OP

THE FINALS! to quote belt (the croods): duh-duh-duhhhhhhhhh!

so, this is not the first go-round for my esteemed opponent and i. i always enjoy going against him, and by my reckoning, i owe him one. let's make with the payback, shall we...? big grin

PREP:

since we only get 3 seconds, not much time. but i'm not doing anything complicated so time won't be an issue. i instantly raise full powered gravimetric shields (say with a diameter of 15') and full psi shields. then nico casts 2 spells: OPAQUE, and REBOUND, then i am transported to the battlefield.

BATTLE PLAN:

the purpose of the first spell should be obvious: OPAQUE means my outer shield is now 100% opaque, which of course makes it impossible for light to even SUGGEST he might somehow go through it in his photonic form, which i assume he'll be in (and which may be a REALLY bad strategy to use against me....but i'll speak to that NEXT post if he has indeed gone photonic). cyborg has shown the effectiveness of a similar strategy in the past:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...panel1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...panel2.jpg.html

a simple shift of his armor allowed vic to wade through a massive energy blast from artie--so easily that it allowed him to walk right up to him and nearly punch light's head off. (and yes, light blew a hole through him at contact distance because vic's armor wasn't strong enough--no such worries of course given the strength of my forcefield....) my spell is designed to operate in that exact manner.

"but leo, now YOU'RE blind too!!" lol well, no. not when you have worldmind's senses backing you up:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...needed.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...eeded2.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...eeded3.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...eeded4.jpg.html

worldmind can perceive the environment on a VAST scale--sufficiently so as to be able to detect and track quasar's energy signature from light years away. no, knowing precisely where light is at all times will NOT be an issue for me at all....
my second spell was REBOUND: this little spell is designed to work like a booby trap. my guess is that smurph will doubt the extent of my own psi shields and will attempt to penetrate them with his new 'omega style' tp. well, i can only hope he tries. smile the spell is designed to turn her tp assault back on her! similar in nature to this effort from spiral:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...hoenix.jpg.html

so, let's see what has been rendered useless to my opponent thus far:

(1) photonic form, in so far as he may have hoped he could get through my shields as light
(2) tp, in so far as he thought he might be able to test my shielding--instead he ko's himself
(3) tk weapons: my shield is far too wide. even if by some miracle we assume for a moment that her psi knife could in some unknown way, pierce my shield, it would never contact me directly, and there is most CERTAINLY no chance that SHE follows the blade through the shield. if he makes this attempt, i'll discuss it more later. for now, he can't reach me with it in any way shape or form
(4) energy drain--i am WELL aware of light's powerset (this is the second time i've faced the dude in a bz--i won the previous time, btw big grin ) and his control is limited to the EM spectrum. even LANTERN powers operate on an EMOTIONAL ELECTROMAGNETIC SPECTRUM. and i know smurph will bring up absorbing the LIGHTNING in cassie's lasso as proof of exotic control--but artie goes out of his way to explain he is controlling the LIGHTNING, not the magic itself. he's never been able to control anything BUT 'light-related' energy. my shields? [b]GRAVIMETRIC[b]--gravity-based energy, NOT electromagnetically--based energy. he can try to drain my shields all day long and all he'd do is work up a thirst. he could no more control my shields than he could absorb graviton's shielding.

within my opaque energy shield, i scan and track him. if he attempts tp, the fight should be over. he has, literally, no way to harm me, as all his offense is rendered useless. even his speed is nothing compared to speeds i've both tracked and dealt with in the past (see quasar). meanwhile i have several options open, depending on what he tries to do. from where i am, my offense is enormously adaptable.

and yes i know nico isn't spiral, but the relative level of their magic is pretty close and given some of nico's previous efforts, this isn't asking too much of her at all. if psylocke attempts to crush me psionically, she literally decimates herself, likely causing an immediate KO. at the least, smurph's boy-girl will be badly stunned and easily finished, ending the match very early on. even if she only probes my mind, the feedback would be enough to cause her pain and stagger her, giving me an opportunity to capitalize in one way or another. anyway, here are just a couple samples of nico's magic level:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...sort=3&o=63

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...sort=3&o=62

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...sort=3&o=61

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...sort=3&o=94

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ort=3&o=100

notice the last one--WITHOUT the staff, and before that, going toe-to-toe with hellstrom. she is certainly MORE than capable of doing the things i asked of her in prep. lots more spell examples will be forthcoming.

a couple last things: i should maybe show a couple scans highlighting the power of nova's shields:

http://imgur.com/AtTmPoe

http://i.imgur.com/d4Jq4Z3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sWoGdoA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xQeGSuC.jpg

so his shields have held against a 2 ka stone GOD like sphinx, and....galactus, and pretty much everything in between. more later if needed.

and lastly, my own psi shields. don't want anyone mistakenly feeling that they wouldn't have held WITHOUT my little psionic booby (heh made you say booby...) trap:

http://i.imgur.com/ugItP6E.jpg

this thing was enormously powerful and caught rich and worldmind completely unaware. in fact, it was powerful enough to LIVE on galactus' own worldship, UNDETECTED by surfer or even galactus himself for decades!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...lactus.jpg.html

even with the full nova force nova wasn't powerful enough to break the cone of psilence that hid the entity from galactus. the thing was obviously extremely powerful and later on, the only reason it had SOME success against rich was because worldmind was offline and his psi-shield protocols were NOT enacted. i have no doubt at all that my psi-shields would protect me in this battle on their own. factor in my grav shields, and worldmind (not to mention nico's magic, which i will address as necessary...)

so, to recap:

opaque, grav shields that can't be drained and won't let light through; booby trapped mind; scanning/tracking; ready to rumble....


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 02:06 PM
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Blair Wind
The Iron Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: Stark Tower

Existere's OP

Psychadelic Showdown


We’ve got a fresh slate of judges, so I want to reiterate what makes my amalgam awesome.

Drafts: Psylocke and Dr. Light

Amalgamation: Psychadelic

Starting with the components:

Psylocke

Over the years, Betsy Braddock has boasted telepathy and telekinesis. In her current incarnation, she has both.

She also wields a variety of telekinetic weaponry (which stuns whoever it hits).

Finally, her signature move is her psychic knife, which is the focused totality of her psychic power.

It can affect subjects that would otherwise be immune to telepathy, and will go through anything, no matter the hardness.

In the latest run of X-Force, Betsy was upgraded to an omega level psychic. The ‘focused totality of her psychic power’ is stronger now than it is all but my most recent scans.

Dr. Light

Dr. Light is light.



So, what does that mean, combined with Psylocke?

Psychadelic

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
I want Digi to draft Luke Skywalker, infuse him with Flash-level speed, and proceed to chop you all in half with a ftl lightsaber blitz. Essentially, by the time you knew the saber was green, you'd already be flayed into a steaming pile of loss. thumb up

Nothing against anyone else, but how effing cool would that be..?




I mean, Psychadelic is as fast as light, not ftl, but that means she’s as fast as the tourney cap. She has multiple OHKO attacks, and will happily use them to dismantle foes from the start of the match.

Battle Strategy

OK, my plan is pretty simple:

Prep

During prep, the first thing I’m going to do is alter the wavelength of visible light:

http://s593.photobucket.com/user/Ma...e040fa.jpg.html

The second thing I’m going to do is to make myself totally invisible. There are a few incidents of Dr. Light performing feats in this vein. Perhaps the most straightforward one involves fooling all of the combined visual senses of Superman and Vixen:

(please log in to view the image)

The third thing that I’m going to do is create a single hologram of myself that will fly around in photonic form from the onset of the match.

The result will be three sets of effective blindness for my opponent:

  • The first prevents navigating the environment without using radio waves to see.

  • The second prevents any sort of enhanced vision from detecting where I personally am.

  • The third focuses attention on a false copy of me.


Battle

As the immediate bell-ring, I’m going to get within melee distance of Leonova and use my psychic knife to fry his brains out.

I will be an invisible wraith. In order to find me, Leonova will first have to attempt to adapt to the new wavelength of visible light, then deduce that my hologram is a fake, and then perform a feat of detection that Superman could not replicate.
In the meantime, given that my reflexes and combat speed are both significantly faster than Nova’s, I will easily slip past his guard and knife his psyche.

GG, Leo.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 02:09 PM
Blair Wind is currently offline Click here to Send Blair Wind a Private Message Find more posts by Blair Wind Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Smurph
------

Gender: Male
Location:

Existere Post 1: Leo's Trippin' Balls


The bell rings. Fight begins.

Leo's character:

"Worldmind, we made our shields totally opaque! I can't see shit! What do we do!?"

Worldmind's computer mind tries to comprehend that we've altered the wavelength of light itself:

"....Nova, I'm tripping balls"

-------------------------------


Leonico Minova is utterly. helpless.

In my OP, I utilized three methods to ensure Leo would be completely unaware of where I was:

  • I made myself totally invisible, with the same trick Dr. Light used to fool Superman's visual senses.

  • I altered the wavelength of visual light, requiring radio-vision to see anything on the battlefield.

  • I created a photonic hologram of myself, flying far away from my true position.


In Leo's opening post, he further blinded himself:

  • Magically opaqued his own shield...


So, judges, there are four barriers preventing Leo's character from locating mine. My light-bending invisibility, the altered visual state of the battlefield, an attention-diverting hologram, and Leo's opaqued shield.

He will never find me during this match.

With that in mind, there are three distinct advantages that will lead me to victory:

  1. Stealth
  2. Speed
  3. Precision


I covered stealth above. For emphasis: I can make more holograms, and I can bolster my invisibility by using my telekinesis to make my molecular structure undetectable. I'd wager that if Reed Richards finds this 'ingenious', it'll be effective against Worldmind too.

If Worldmind does manage to adapt to the altered wavelength of visual light, I can simply... alter it again. smile

Next:

Speed.

Dr. Light is capable of travelling as a single beam of light.

He is also capable of out-reacting a speeding Superman.

He can also teleport.

For the kicker: Psychadelic is the amalgamation of Dr. Light and a character that "reacts from instinct, not thought".

A bloody ninja.

I bring this up because Scoob, in my previous match, attempted to underscore Light's lightspeed abilities because he had low reaction showings in his photonic form. Psychadelic is more than Dr. Light though - she is all of Dr. Light's speed, plus badass ninja training. Her teleportation, conversion to-and-from photonic form, and creation/use of shields will all happen on instinct (light-speed instinct). None of Dr. Light's low showings for reaction speed will apply to this character.

So: Psychadelic is really, really fast. As fast as possible for this match.

Leo, on the other hand?

I'm gonna shamelessly borrow these from Digi:

http://i.imgur.com/34FRXAQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6vms09n.jpg

"Darkhawk just went past my face at four times the speed of sound ... WHOOAAA! Overshoot! ... There's no room to manuever!"

It's a low showing. Nova has high showings too - Leo will respond with those - but the fact is, the majority of them are travel feats, or combat feats with ambiguous speed.

My amalgamation wipes out my low reaction showings. My character is going to be moving and reacting at lightspeed, or Mach 881,000. Nova, despite his high showings, has incidents of failing to react at Mach 4, and his amalgamation does nothing to improve this. Nova is amalgamating with a teenage girl that takes time to verbally cast spells with a magic stick. He's also blind.

If anything, he's moving even slower.

Finally, once again, Nova can't see anything in this match. This means there is going to be a further time delay in his actions, as he acts only after Worldmind directs him, as per Leo's scans:

quote:


The long and short of it: My lightspeed ninja will be magnitudes faster than Leo's blind teen girl/space cop.

Precision.

OK, so we've established that Leonico Minova will be clueless to find me, and a snail compared to me.

Now, let's take a closer look at one of Leo's scans:

http://i.imgur.com/sWoGdoA.jpg

"Grav shields! Max front!"

Nova directs where his shields go.

Probably seems like a good idea to him, but this is where precision counts: Leo's character, acting in character as per our rules, is going to direct his shields according to where my hologram is (assuming, of course, that Worldmind can accurately pick up on anything that's going on in this match, and instruct accordingly - remember, Nova can't see shit).

This is the trap.

As Leonico Minova prepares from a head-on attack from my photonic hologram, I am going to fly/teleport behind him, and plant my psychic knife in his unshielded skull.

Leo's brought up his natural psi-shielding from his helmet, but it's a useless defense for the knife. The knife would go through his helmet, just as it did Juggernaut's:

http://i.imgur.com/8CHEfYH.jpg

Juggernaut's helmet has a much more consistent history of actual psychic immunity. Doesn't stop Psylocke's knife from penetrating.

The knife has similar feats of working against foes with immense psychic defense, including:

Wolverine.

Cassandra Nova

In future posts, I'm going to explore Dr. Light's feats of blasting and power displays, because the psychic knife is far from my only option to victory. It's just, frankly, the coolest and the quickest.


In conclusion:

I'm far faster than Nova, who lacks feats of lightspeed combat. I'm more mobile than he is, between my flight options, teleportation, and ninja reflexes. I'm totally stealthed, and I believe Leo will spend this entire match flying blind. Finally, I possess the means of a one-hit kill, and the speed, mobility, and stealth to land that OHKO shot.

Leo will spend the whole match following Worldmind's instructions and trying to lock on to my holograms, and we will literally not know what him him when I win the match.

Psychadelic ftw


__________________

Old Post Apr 16th, 2015 07:48 PM
Smurph is currently offline Click here to Send Smurph a Private Message Find more posts by Smurph Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

k. 'pologies for the delay. let's get to it:

(1) strategy: he went invisible
problems: i was never relying on sight. then he adds tk invisibility which has OTHER problems: (a) the version of psylocke he has chosen ('omega' style tp) also doesn't HAVE her old tk abilities. she has tk, but NOT to the same extent. he should be using tk feats from HIS version. (b) reed STILL knew she was there. no expression (c) that was an alternate reed. not that it would matter:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...a/reed.jpg.html

(d) using tk to make her physical form invisible is one thing--now she is ENERGY! so we assume that she can now make ENERGY invisible?? dubious doesn't BEGIN to describe my thoughts regarding THAT idea..... (e) he'd STILL leave some trail to follow

support: further examples of worldmind's abilities:

http://i.imgur.com/ANKIUp3.jpg

worldmind monitors everything around nova all the time and feeds some of the info to his visor:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...20tech.jpg.html

his visor can even find "cloaked" warships--ie, invisble. here worldmind actually scans the GENOME of a creature:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...genome.jpg.html

that means molecular level scanning. and as i've shown before, worldmind feeds info instantly and directly into richie's mind:

http://i.imgur.com/hxZraLr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qOWGoug.jpg

that would clearly come in handy, not only with richie's own powers, but worldmind would also be able to calculate ways to better use SPELLS! and no, there is no need for verbal communication:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sif...ion015.jpg.html

that should be MORE than enough to suggest that invisibility and holograms have no chance against nova. tracking and analyzing energy is one of the things worldmind is BEST at.

(2) strategy: made a hologram
problem: useless against worldmind

(3) strategy: change the visible light to 'blind' me.
problems: (a) useless. worldmind is tracking HIS energy signature so the surrounding is meaningless. (b) light has ONLY ever become....LIGHT--VISIBLE LIGHT! i'll flat out challenge him to show artie taking ANY form OTHER than visible light as an energy form. his visible light form would stand out like a supernova to worldmind--regardless of the surroundings.

(4) strategy: blitz with psy blade
problems: the blade would bounce off.

support: while it is not my job to prove her blade CAN'T get through my shield (the onus is on him to convince you it COULD) i'll go ahead give it a try anyway. (a) my shield was created and made large enough to DIRECTLY safeguard against that tactic. and no, lol, his attempts at telling you all, and me, what i can and can't do in prep does NOT count as a suitable counter. lol he can't possibly be arguing that it is ooc to RAISE A FULL SHIELD IN PREP, right? confused i mean i'm not killing babies over here. the argument DOES smell a little desperate though, and so early in the match.... shifty (b) my shields can BLOCK psi powers. we know his psi weapons can be blocked/parried by regular weapons:

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpres...-psylocke-2.jpg

in addition though, my shields can BLOCK MENTAL CONTROL:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ntrol1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ntrol2.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ntrol3.jpg.html

his shield completely cut off the mental control the many-angled ones had over their minions. also:

http://imageshack.us/f/196/nova13zonemeganpg17.jpg/

a rather important scan, that last one. his grav shields happen to be able to hold....an INTANGIBLE, PSYCHIC ENERGY CREATURE! this combo of those scans is proof positive that with shields in place, i would BLOCK her tp attempts altogether (that's not even factoring in the additional protection my helmet's psi-protocols grant me) and is MORE than adequate proof (with nothing to counter it) that my shields would block her psi blade. (c) i can say with all honesty (and i've read a LOT of x-men and x-related books....) that i cannot, even ONE time, recall her psi blade piercing an energy shield. she is always at contact range and the opponent is unshielded. i am neither of those things.... i believe i have MORE than adequately supported the notion that her psi blade would do nothing more than bounce off my energy shields. the onus is on him to prove that it might do anything but.

strategy: multitasking

problem: HE IS TRYING TO DO WAYYYY TOO MUCH!

support: does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that he can: go photonic, manifest his psychic knife, turn invisible, make holograms AND take command of the visible light in the area; simultaneously?? bear in mind, the ONLY proof that he can use....ANY powers while intangible EVER produced was this one:

http://s593.photobucket.com/user/Ma...1fd18d.jpg.html

no expression

to be crystal clear: he wants us to think that because he was shown manipulating.....CHRISTMAS LIGHTS in energy form, that we should automatically assume he can do ALL those things above. in what world does the former evidence allow for the latter conclusion?? blink that folks, is a textbook example of what we like to call a no limits fallacy. wink

MY TURN

i'm a NIGHTMARE for him, worst case scenario match-up. he LITERALLY, has no offensive options against me. all he can do is run away at light speed while i sit back in absolute safety and track his every move. recall: we have already seen explicit, ON PANEL PROOF that i can capture intangible, psychic energy beings in a grav node field (it's like the writers KNEW i would be having this bz big grin ). all i need to do is catch him.

before i begin, let me share a little more about nico and her staff. i chose her because, well, i love the option of being creative in these things, and she affords me almost limitless creativity. i could show scan after scan, but honestly, this site does a very nice job of outlining most of the spells she has cast and explains their effects:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Staff_of_One

i share it that you can see for yourselves the variety of effects her spells can take and to ensure you all that what i'm asking of her in NO WAY exceeds any of the things she has done to date. that said, how do i catch him? well, i could use a combination of teleport (it's not necessary for me to say anything to teleport) and my own tourney max speed to close the gap and a spell:

http://i.imgur.com/zVyFly3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/b1Glftj.jpg

now, he talked about his precision travel speed edge. i don't think he's come CLOSE to showing any precision travel speed himself. as a beam he bounced around a school, but that's ALL he's shown--not exactly an overwhelming combat feat. he seems to be drawing some pretty crazy conclusions based on some pretty limited showings....

anyway, any "perceived" edge he may THINK he has is easily dealt with. first, i cast NOW YOU SEE ME NOW YOU DON'T to employ some MAGICAL invisibility of my own (no psi trail because of my shields nor would they emit EM energy for him to sense because they are gravimetric), followed by FOLLOW THE LEADER and teleportation. since he can't sense me, he would never even bother trying to evade. with this spell, i have nova FOLLOWING light, exactly. the teleport would get me close, the spell handles the tracking and piloting (in case of random movements) while i supply the speed. the tracking doesn't even need to be perfect--just enough to let me get close. once i am, i hit him with a grav node field and say BLACK BODY (something worldmind would easily know about....), neatly trapping him in an opaque grav node that blocks ALL FORMS OF EM RADIATION. nothing he can do about it--psi proof, strong enough to physically withstand a blitzing moonstone:

http://i.imgur.com/rFaXXrq.jpg

and immune to his EM energy control. game, set, match.

don't like that one? i could have worldmind amplify my voice and say COME HERE. this would act as a form of tk, and draw him to me, where i could again encase him with my grav node/BLACK BODY spell.

if THAT didn't work, i could try to stagger him with sonics, jarring him back to human form. something like THUNDERCLAP (since, as seen in his scan, he can still hear in this form) could stun him back to human and allow me to trap him as above. or i could just hit him with a gravity enhanced, cl100+ punch and knock his head off.

or maybe WHIRLPOOL which would act as an energy siphon (similar to what nova himself could do) that would draw him round and round my staff into a small space where i could trap him in a grav node/BLACK BODY.

soooooo many options! lol i could literally just sit back and recite spell after spell until something worked because he can't do a THING to harm me! regardless of which spell you like, the undeniable fact of the matter is--i WOULD catch him. sooner or later.

i have unassailable defenses, and a nearly infinitely creative offense orchestrated by a supercomputer with all the time in the world to use it. with still more fun to come, there can be only one outcome:

(please log in to view the image)


__________________

Old Post Apr 17th, 2015 12:27 AM
leonidas is currently offline Click here to Send leonidas a Private Message Find more posts by leonidas Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scoobless
sselboocS

Gender: Male
Location: The Scoob Cave

Slow down guys, you're typing toooooo fast.

no expression


__________________


Do you even KMC???

Old Post Apr 24th, 2015 04:25 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

imagine if i used caps. no expression


__________________

Old Post Apr 24th, 2015 04:49 PM
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Smurph
------

Gender: Male
Location:

First off - I'm sorry for the delay between posts, been incredibly hard to find time to get online.

Now, the match. I'm eager to go straight to refuting points from Leo’s reply, but before I dive into the back-and-forth, I want to draw attention to some glaring holes in Leo’s opening post.

Leo’s Prep is Totally Whack

Kids still say ‘whack’ right?

Look, I think Leo wanted to make his prep seem simple and therefore without holes or problems, but there are a couple obvious, and problematic issues:

quote:
i instantly raise full powered gravimetric shields (say with a diameter of 15') and full psi shields. then nico casts 2 spells: OPAQUE, and REBOUND, then i am transported to the battlefield.
Shields? Not a big deal right now, though we’ll get into shield-specific issues in a moment.

Spells? Well…

  1. Problem: Leo doesn’t know what this spell will do.

    Nico Minoru is an… unpredictable spellcaster.

    All spells (sans teleportation/flight) require spell words, and spell words can’t be used more than once, so Nico frequently gets creative:

    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e...naways2-009.jpg
    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e...naways2-012.jpg

    In these scans, Nico casts a spell “Get lost!”, hoping it will BFR her opponent, and instead it blinds them, leaving them ‘lost’. She then says:

    ”I was hoping that spell would send you to Mars or something, but with the Staff of One I have to take what it gives me…”

    The takeaway here is that Nico has no effing guarantee what the effects of her spells will be. Digi already brought this up in the previous match, and Leo handwaved it away by referencing the upgrade that Nico got, but lets take a closer look at the evidence of this upgrade:

    http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ycle-1.jpg.html
    http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...tnap-1.jpg.html

    “Thunderstruck”, “Recycle”, “Dirtnap”… all still very literal definitions that directly describe the spell effect.

    Now, what Leo is trying to do in prep is cast a spell – “Rebound!” – and claim that it gets translated into a mental booby trap spell, because a completely different character (an extra dimensional, techno-genius, magical ninja) once cast a spell that he would like to use in this match.

    He doesn’t have Spiral though, he has Nico Minoru, who casts super literal spells with no guarantee of their effect. Nico Minoru, who has never cast a spell for psychic defense, much less a booby trap designed to ensnare an omega telepath.

    In his opening prep, Leo is going to be sent flying away from his own shield/helmet/Worldmind as he ‘rebounds’ off of it.

  2. Problem: No limits fallacy, anyone?

    I mentioned that Nico has never attempted to use spell casting for psychic effect.
    Following that line of thought, why on earth would we assume that she could create a trap sophisticated enough to harm an omega telepath? This particular omega telepath has experience evading the psychic traps of Shadow King and Cassandra Nova. Even if Nico got an upgrade recently, that’s no substitute for experience in this field.

  3. Problem: Nico is out of the equation

    This is just helpful for me, so I want to dwell on it for a moment:
    If Leo’s character is blinded and relying on Worldmind, then Nico is going to be helpless to know what spell to cast.

    Worldmind, with utterly zero experience with the Staff of One, won’t be able to help her either, and certainly won’t be able to cast/aim spells for her.

    This is now a two-on-one battle, and all Nico has done is hinder her team.

  4. Problem: CIS

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by leonidas

    (1) strategy: he went invisible
    problems: i was never relying on sight.
    Oh, my mistake.

    You're relying on blinding yourself, and listening to Worldmind say: "blind asian girl! It is critical that you pay attention at this time!."

    Then, as your scans show, verbally feeding Rich information. I appreciate that Worldmind has, in the past, fed information directly to Rich's cerebellum, but:

    a) wasn't covered in prep

    which is mostly important because...

    quote:
    Self or Characters: We're drafting the characters, not granting ourselves the powers. So CIS is on the table.


    b) CIS.

    Your scans that 'prove' Worldmind's senses also show Worldmind feeding Rich information through conversation, and those came AFTER the scans of directly tapping into Rich's cerebellum.

    This means Worldmind's tendency is not to tap into Rich’s cerebellum, but rather to verbally instruct Nova, and this is backed up by every single instance of “It is critical that you pay attention!”. Obviously Rich would be a vastly superior combatant if Worldmind always fed him information directly, rather than took the time to verbalize the location of each target, so we can only attribute this to Character Induced Stupidity.

    CIS, for this tournament, is on the table, and it is going to work against you here. You've blinded yourself and you're relying on a robot giving you verbal cues to target a hologram.

    I submit that, even if judges believe that Nova/Worldmind would resort to direct cerebral interface, the evidence suggests that it wouldn’t be their default strategy, meaning it’s a plan they would need to discuss and adopt… after the match starts.

    I further submit, it is at least equally likely that, instead of resorting to flying blind with Worldmind’s assistance, Nova simply lowers his opaque shields so that he can try to see. Again, judges, this is a matter of CIS- Leo purposefully blinded his own character, failed to set him up with the resources to navigate, and started the match. At this point the match is in Nova and Nico’s unlikely hands.



Important takeaways from Leo’s prep:

  • Neither Leo, nor Nico Minoru, has any guarantee over the exact effect, or effectiveness, of her spells
  • Nico has never cast a spell remotely similar to the exotic spell that Leo is copping from Spiral
  • Without sight, Nico/Staff of One is useless
  • Nova, Nico, and Worldmind, are inhibited by CIS that will slow them down from the start of the match, and may result in flying shield-less


OK, let’s move on from Leo’s prep to get into the nitty gritty back and forth.

This is not the Psychadelic that you’re looking for…

Leo does a lot of handwaving to insist that Worldmind can see past my multiple layers of stealth, but the scans do little to support his stance:

  • Psylocke’s Stealth
    quote:

    b) then he adds tk invisibility which has OTHER problems: (a) the version of psylocke he has chosen ('omega' style tp) also doesn't HAVE her old tk abilities. she has tk, but NOT to the same extent. he should be using tk feats from HIS version.
    The only power change Psylocke experienced was gaining telepathy. She's said to now share her psi power between her abilities, but her psi power has grown to be Omega class – more powerful than ever before -, and she retains all her previous experience. Judges, if this point concerns you, remember: I don’t need to replicate the feat of Psylocke showing molecular invisibility, because the crux of my stealth is still Dr. Light, who has fooled Superman on multiple occasions. Psylocke, if she feels like showing off, has experience and psychic ability to bolster that stealth even further.

  • Dr. Light’s Invisibility and Holograms

    quote:
    (d) using tk to make her physical form invisible is one thing--now she is ENERGY! so we assume that she can now make ENERGY invisible?? dubious doesn't BEGIN to describe my thoughts regarding THAT idea..... (e) he'd STILL leave some trail to follow


    First of all: I never stated in my prep that I would become an energy form. That only happens once Worldmind is fixated on my hologram. I’m starting cloaked, with the same cloak that fools Superman.

    Second: You don't explain why an energy form would be any harder to stealth than a human form. You don't need to change your own composition, you need to fool the detection devices, and those work according to the same principle regardless of which form my character takes.

    More importantly: Dr. Light boasts that he easily fools Superman with holograms.

    …so Dr Light has casually slipped past Superman twice, both with invisibility and holograms.

    Superman can see ‘the whole spectrum’: microscopic, chemical, x-ray, auditory, ultrasonic, magnetic, photonic

    Leo can spout about Worldmind all he likes, but without feats of Worldmind scanning and detecting hidden objects, there’s no reason to believe that he would fare any better against my invisibility and holograms than Superman.



Continued in next post...


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2015 02:04 AM
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Smurph
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Gender: Male
Location:

continuing...

  • Worldmind’s lack of scanning feats

    quote:

    support: further examples of worldmind's abilities:
    http://i.imgur.com/ANKIUp3.jpg
    worldmind monitors everything around nova all the time and feeds some of the info to his visor:
    http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...20tech.jpg.html
    his visor can even find "cloaked" warships--ie, invisble. here worldmind actually scans the GENOME of a creature:
    http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...genome.jpg.html
    that means molecular level scanning.


    ... none of which is helpful here.

    I mean, it's literally scan after scan of images that might be useful if you hadn't blinded yourself. These are each feats (and a bio?) for Nova’s visor… the same visor that you yourself blinded.

    If you’re suggesting that Worldmind’s best bet is to feed information to Nova’s visor, well, you’re just making this harder on yourself.

    Also, lol @ molecular scanning. Again, Dr. Light made Superman look like a fool, twice. These feats are not a drop in Superman’s bucket of super-senses.

    quote:
    (3) strategy: change the visible light to 'blind' me.
    problems: (a) useless. worldmind is tracking HIS energy signature so the surrounding is meaningless. (b) light has ONLY ever become....LIGHT--VISIBLE LIGHT! i'll flat out challenge him to show artie taking ANY form OTHER than visible light as an energy form. his visible light form would stand out like a supernova to worldmind--regardless of the surroundings.


    Again, I’m not starting in photonic form. I’m only assuming that form after your attention is fixed on my hologram(s).

    Worldmind doesn’t have my energy signature to track, and even if he did, I can replicate it when I create a hologram.

Leo’s throwing arguments against the wall to see what will stick. None of this actually addresses why or how he would:

  • a)navigate in an environment with altered visible light

  • b) find my invisible form

  • c) detect that my hologram is a fake

  • d) feed that information effectively to Rich despite blinding himself


OK, time to move on the offensive:

The Psychic Knife: Leo’s Blinding Headache

quote:
(4) strategy: blitz with psy blade
problems: the blade would bounce off.

I don’t have much to focus on here, Leo’s ignored the important point:

quote:
Now, let's take a closer look at one of Leo's scans:

http://i.imgur.com/sWoGdoA.jpg

"Grav shields! Max front!"

Nova directs where his shields go.


Leo’s response was to claim that it’s not out of character to raise a full shield in prep, and this is absolutely true.

The issue isn’t what Nova does in prep, but rather how he utilizes his shields following prep:

- We know that Dr. Light’s holograms fooled Superman, and there is no reason to doubt that they would similarly fool Worldmind.

- We know that Rich moves his shields to deflect attacks, and will therefore respond to attacks from my hologram

- We know that Leo’s shield is self-inhibiting, and that Rich is hot headed enough to lower the whole thing so that he can see (which is fair enough, really…)

I never claimed that the blade would go through the shields, nor that Leo couldn’t have his character raise full shields in prep. I just don’t think that Leo’s attempts to fly in a blind, black orb is a sustainable plan for his character and, per my OP, the moment a shield lowers, I’ll knife his cerebral cortex.

quote:
we know his psi weapons can be blocked/parried by regular weapons:
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpres...-psylocke-2.jpg

That’s a telekinetic blade, not a psychic knife. The psychic knife has gone through adamantium and Juggernaut’s helmet. If this is confusing, the difference between these weapons is outlined in my OP.

Shield Shenanigans

Leo’s boasting a lot about his shields, but, despite the caps lock and bluster, the scans are a little misleading.

quote:
in addition though, my shields can BLOCK MENTAL CONTROL:
http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ntrol1.jpg.html
http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ntrol2.jpg.html
http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...ntrol3.jpg.html
his shield completely cut off the mental control the many-angled ones had over their minions. also:
http://imageshack.us/f/196/nova13zonemeganpg17.jpg/

a rather important scan, that last one. his grav shields happen to be able to hold....an INTANGIBLE, PSYCHIC ENERGY CREATURE!


NONE of those scans are shields.

Leo is attempting to pass off feats of gravity bubbles and a twenty gravity node field as feats of shields, but, from our previous discussion, we know that when Nova refers to his shields… he says ‘shields!’.

I realize that Nova’s powers are gravimetric in nature, and perhaps his shields and his containment fields (including the gravity bubbles and ‘twenty node fields’ that he traps enemies in) stem from the same power source, but the difference is clear: the latter is designed to contain, and therefore to block all signal in or out.

The same is not true of shields – Worldmind is obviously able to communicate with outside objects while Nova’s shields are up. Worldmind is obviously able to detect energy signals while Nova’s shields are up… that is something that Leo is relying on, right?

Well, he couldn’t do that if Nova is trapping himself in a gravity node.

There is no evidence of Nova’s standard shields blocking psychic signals or energy.

This raises some pretty crippling questions for Leo’s defense:

  1. If Nova DOES trap himself in a field designed to contain prisoners, how exactly does Leo hope to attack me?

    He’s claimed that he’s going to use gravity bubbles, blast me with spells, or hit me with punches (lol, we’ll get to why those are all a little silly later), but clearly none of those things are possible if he’s trapped in one of his own bubbles.

    Judges, Leo’s dilemma is clear: Either he, scared of my psychic might, traps himself in a bubble and cuts off all of his attack, OR he attempts to attack me, and I mindrape him.

    Further, is there any proof that Leo can attack me while his regular shields are raised? His entire defense is predicated on this one opaque bubble that he’s created, and it’s looking sketchier and sketchier…

    Which leads me to:

  2. DOES Nova have effective psi-shielding?

    As Leo highlighted in his prep, he does have some sort of psi-shields…

    Those shields didn’t hold up though.

    ”My psionics are too strong for your helmet barricades.”

    Exhibit 2:

    (please log in to view the image)-(please log in to view the image)

    Judges, this showing is key.

    That crown that Rich picks up immediately overcomes any psi-shielding, shuts Worldmind out, and takes control of Nova.

    Worldmind explains:

    (please log in to view the image)

    ”If that … thing … hadn’t forced me out of Rich’s mind

    So, Nova’s psi shielding? Not great. No convincing showings against a telepath with feats, and consistently poor showings against telepathic takeover in general.


Putting It All Together

Let’s recap the last two posts:

Leo’s prep does more to hinder him then help. He casts one spell that blinds him, a second that has a random, unknowable (but most likely unhelpful) effect, and doesn’t set his character up to overcome CIS and deal with these hurdles.

Leo’s unable to provide evidence that Worldmind can navigate the visually-altered battlefield, much less hold a candle to Superman’s significant scanning and super-sensory abilities. Given that Worldmind can’t provide superior-to-Supes feats, the evidence indicates that Dr. Light/Psychadelic is comfortably hidden throughout this match.

Leo’s bet his entire defense on two things:

  • The hope that Nico Minoru can replicate a particularly obscure spell cast by an extra-dimensional X-Man villain

  • Mislabeling ‘gravity bubbles’ and ‘twenty gravity nodes’ containment fields as ‘shield feats’


The conclusion we’re left to draw is: there isn’t anything stopping Psychadelic from mentally snapping her opponent’s psyche in two.

Psychadelic: Speed, Stealth, Precision.


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Old Post Apr 25th, 2015 04:19 AM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

k, sorry for the timing. rl is almost never in the way for me, but it has been of late--REALLY in the way. anyway, let's get to it:

quote:
Leo’s Prep is Totally Whack.... leo doesn't know what this spell will do


digi tried this tactic in the previous match: it didn't work. like digi, smurph showed scans of nico PRE-UPGRADE. here again (for the judges who never saw it) is the upgrade scene:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...elp1_1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...elp2_1.jpg.html

she was actually dead in that first scene. you can see that even her arm was even removed. in the old days she needed to make a blood sacrifice to make her spells work (or not work...) and she had little control . after her death?

since that time, NO SPELL has 'backfired' on her. any showing of nico prior to her rebirth is useless. thanks to her new magic arm, she can even cast spells WITHOUT the staff. here she is healing and flying:

http://i.imgur.com/4jBe6dL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QMEccyC.jpg

nothing is backfiring, and the onus is on him to PROVE it would. good luck.

spell language:

no expression i wonder if smurph scanned the list of spells i provided. a second's perusal will reveal that SOME are quite literal, but others are much more colloquial and some you have to STRUGGLE to find the meaning of! spells like ABRAHAM LINCOLN to 'unvanish' her house, BOUNCE house to make attackers rise into the air, CAN OPENER to pull iron lad (young KANG!) out of his armor, CRYSTAL LIGHT made her house disappear... and on and on. just read through some of the spells and you will very quickly see that it is INTENT that determines the effect. i chose REBOUND because that is precisely what i want to happen when psych tries some psi-attack. and recall--i can use both new and previously used spells with nico--in fact, that is precisely what smurph himself advocated in the discussion thread.... heh

this is NOT a complex spell in any way. i ask that you simply COMPARE it to the list of spells. you will quickly see it is in NO WAY extraordinary. also, spiral bounced back PHOENIX'S attack. this is only HIGH META SELECTION psylocke..... smile this is completely in line with her other spells. incidentally, an inexperienced, pre-death nico has ALREADY shattered mind control:

http://i.imgur.com/NfR7eoN.jpg

and that was NOT just some schmuck, but marie laveau, an extremely powerful voodoo prietess:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/laveau.htm

she is a mutha f'n FORCE, with FAR more experience than nico in ALL areas, and nico was effortlessly able to overcome her mental control over all those people. nico rocks. thumb up

as far as the REBOUND EFFECT? well, here is an example of her turning an attack back on that same marie laveau:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Staff_of_On..._of_One_012.jpg

so, i've proven she CAN affect psi power. i've proven she CAN deflect power. all i'm doing is combining them. given her feats, that certainly is not unreasonable.

not sure where his idea of 2-on-1 comes in.....we ARE amalgamated.... one more point here before i leave off. my shields would not hinder my spell casting at all. this is one of the reasons i chose her. nova doesn't do magic:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...0magic.jpg.html

as much as smurph may wish otherwise, there is NO chance that my shields would inhibit my ability to cast spells from inside them.

CIS

me am confused. there are...many examples that show nova can create full shields. i'll show just a couple and have more if needed:

http://i.imgur.com/d4Jq4Z3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YzDCDOZ.jpg

so, i have basic knowledge, i know i want to wait and see what smurph has planned so i put myself in a force field to shield himself. OPAQUE means smurph can't even ATTEMPT to get through as light and....yeah. that's out of character? blink i'm sort of at a loss as to how to counter that. rich is an experienced warrior. he knows strategy himself, but worldmind knows even MORE. there is.....utterly nothing wrong or out of character with what i did.

it's obvious to everyone though, WHY he pursues this tactic: with my shield surrounding me and it being OPAQUE, he, quite literally, has NO (ZERO) OPTIONS. he can't do anything so he NEEDS to take this bizarro cis stance. i'd likely do the same thing in his shoes (knowing full-well it was a bunch of BS and that i was screwed). what else CAN he do...? that does NOT mean you should be taken in by the ploy. CLEARLY nothing i am doing is ooc.

there is a WHOLE lot of irony here though, begging to be realized... smurph calls on CIS to save him, BUT......conveniently uses a SINGLE scan of dr light IN A STRAND OF CHRISTMAS TREE BULBS as both proof and suggestion that he can both attack AND use all his powers in energy form. no expression

looking deeper--exactly how often DOES light actually fight....ANYONE in his photonic form...? confused i can answer that--as close to ZERO as you can get. so, sticking STRICTLY to how he would fight, there is UTTERLY NO DOUBT light would remain physical in this match. i mean even in the green lantern battle, he assumed a PHYSICAL FORM to attack kyle. so, are there ANY scans, AT ALL, that will show light using his photonic form tactically, in battle? aside from some christmas lights, any scans of him using powers in energy form? hmmmm?

the CIS pendulum doth swing both ways....

'flying blind': again, wut? the opaque shielding ONLY PREVENTS VISIBLE LIGHT from entering. here worldmind shows it is capable of QUANTUM LEVEL scanning!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...senses.jpg.html

here worldmind targets and feeds rich info instantly, mid batte, at high speeds:

http://i.imgur.com/ANKIUp3.jpg

and this one:

http://i.imgur.com/hxZraLr.jpg

know the things i don't, think the things i can't

more scaning and info sharing:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...isor_1.jpg.html

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...sor2_1.jpg.html

(note in the above--rich is IN THE HOUSE. he can't SEE the threat, but worldmind STILL provides the tactical info--EXACTLY AS HE WOULD DO HERE.....)

and here, worldmind INSTANTLY figures out how to track a cloaked opponent:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...senses.jpg.html

it seems ridiculous to have to address this but just because rich can't PHYSICALLY see the outside, doesn't mean worldmind is blind or can't give rich the info clearly, straight into his mind or on his visor.
here is one more, showing that worldmind automatically looks out for rich, even WITHOUT instruction as it raises auto-shielding:

http://imageshack.com/f/5mnovaann1dcp019j

quote:

• Neither Leo, nor Nico Minoru, has any guarantee over the exact effect, or effectiveness, of her spells
• Nico has never cast a spell remotely similar to the exotic spell that Leo is copping from Spiral
• Without sight, Nico/Staff of One is useless
• Nova, Nico, and Worldmind, are inhibited by CIS that will slow them down from the start of the match, and may result in flying shield-less


(1) no questions the spell will do what i want it to
(2) i showed her (a) reflecting power, and (b) shattering powerful mind control--both VERY similar. the combination is NOT more complex than a host of her other spells
(3) worldmind is our eyes and ears and he feeds info to my brain or visor
(4) no


__________________

Last edited by leonidas on May 1st, 2015 at 12:40 AM

Old Post May 1st, 2015 12:36 AM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

the 'nitty gritty'

for all of smurph's touted 'stealth':--SUPERMAN HEARD HIS HEART BEAT. no expression again, i have to ask: not sure if serious...? just, go back and look at wm's scan feats. quantum scanning anyone.....? superman HEARD them, but....somehow wm won't find them? sigh....

as far as her tk ability: well, again, i'd challenge smurph to show THIS version of betsy displaying THAT type of precise control over her tk abilities.... i contend that she would in NO WAY AT ALL be able to add an additional layer of 'stealth' to dr light.

quote:
First of all: I never stated in my prep that I would become an energy form. That only happens once Worldmind is fixated on my hologram. I’m starting cloaked, with the same cloak that fools Superman.


hmm, again, the conflation with superman.... anyway, an obvious point here: since i'm in an opaque shield, SMURPH WOULD NEVER KNOW WHEN I AM FIXATED ON THE HOLOGRAM.

and since i would easily detect him even though he is invisible, (you saw in the scan how fast wm created an algorithm for finding a cloaked being) i would NEVER]/b] be fixated on it. i will say though, that it was THIS part in his prep:

[b]I will be an invisible wraith


that led me to believe he would assume photonic form. a wraith? am i nuts for making that assumption...? confused

but all righty, after his clarification, he planned on getting into melee by....running at me with his knife in physical form while invisible. ok! thumb up then, since his invisibility is a FAIL, once he is found (which would literally take a second), i just say BLACK BOX and contain his invisible, physical form. fight done.

that was easy. smile

it really seems his plan is all a total disaster now. he was waiting until i was fixated on his hologram before deciding what to do. but he has no way of knowing if i even NOTICE the hologram. uh-oh.... while he is frozen and trying to figure things out, i detect his invisible form and trap him. it really is that easy.

but, the holograms: again with superman.... anyway, supes was 'fooled' entirely off panel. lol it may have fooled him for all of a second while light took energy form and took off. we have NO IDEA of the context behind that. at all. what we DO know is that tracking, scanning and identifying energy is PRECISELY what worldmind does best. to think that worldmind could be fooled for any length of time by a hologram, makes no sense. no hell, he APPEARS as a hologram! lol and even if he WERE fooled briefly, I AM SAFE IN MY SHIELD! i can literally take all day to analyze....whatever i want.

to his other issues:

quote:
is there any proof that Leo can attack me while his regular shields are raised?


here he shields from all the revengers while simultaneously ONE SHOTTING THEM.

http://i.imgur.com/9zTXruu.jpg

and here he keeps darkhawk safe from his omniblast and shields them both as well:

http://i.imgur.com/YzDCDOZ.jpg

shield vs field vs bubble

i'm pretty sure this is an impossible issue to resolve fully. but, while i can't 100% guarantee they are the same, (like he can't say they are DIFFERENT) i can at least throw a reasonable amount of doubt on the issue. here is one of the containment fields:

http://i.imgur.com/aaAJkDZ.jpg

here is one of his force fields he used to shield himself and darkhawk:

http://i.imgur.com/YzDCDOZ.jpg

and here is the force field he used to shield a bunch of humans:

http://imageshack.com/f/jmnova18coolidgedcp012j

here is the containment field he caught the psionic entity in:

http://i.imgur.com/fsQvLVT.jpg

there are countless examples of his force fields being blue, just as his containment fields/bubbles are blue. under different artists they may appear to be slightly different i guess, but, as smurph admitted, his powers are gravity based. given that they look the same, and stem from the same source, i'd submit that--in light of there being precisely ZERO evidence to the contrary--they (fields, shields, bubbles) should be considered the same thing. as such, there is no reason to suspect my standard shields couldn't block out tp attacks.

tp defenses:

again, digi tried the same stunt. this scan:

http://i.imgur.com/VAStrMV.jpg

was shown in isolation. it needs to be shown in CONTEXT with THIS scan:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...-psi_1.jpg.html

as you can see, the only reason the entity got in was because rich never had the FULL PSI PROTOCOLS IN PLACE. and why? well, coincidentally, because worldmind had been taken down by galactus's machine. and again, this entity was enormously powerful--powerful enough to hide from not only the SILVER SURFER for years, but, from GALACTUS HIMSELF!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...lactus.jpg.html

in the first panel, the "HE" the creature is referencing is GALACTUS. so, yeah. this time i went in with FULL PROTOCOLS already in place. there is no chance that tp will be any form of issue at all.

now, that leads nicely into his final point: THE SERPENT CROWN. no expression first, the serpent crown is this:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Serpent_Crown

just read the first 2 lines! lol couple that info with the fact that i ALREADY showed you that nova doesn't really DO magic, and, well.....yeah. i admit--the serpent crown overcame his psi shields and took possession of him. imagine the direction this would go if rich DID overcome its power! it would take someone on strange's level to fight off its power....

and....that's it.

to briefly recap:

(1) i took out the whole of revengers with a SHIELD IN PLACE.
(2) shields/fields/bubbles all stem from the exact same power source and all look almost identical. there is no proof they are NOT the same, so the only reasonable conclusion is they are the same (ie--all of them would block tp)

(3) my helmet alone offers enormous protection

(4) his plan crumbles when he has no idea if i fixate on his hologram! cis would say he would remain physical for the battle and stick to his plan of charging me with his blade. if he does go photonic, the proof he can use his powers in that form, or BATTLE in that form, are laughably scarce in the case of the former, and non-existent in the latter.

(5) my own shields would in no way hinder wm's senses (he acts as my eyes and ears and feeds info to me in my head or visor) or hinder in any way my spell casting. if he stays physical, the fight ends in seconds. if in his confusion as his plan falls apart he turns into energy, well, i already offered up a number of options for rounding him up and trapping him in my previous post--none of which were contested.

so, my initial plan of shielding and waiting has paid off. i can take all the time i need to see though his attempts to hide, then attack accordingly with worldmind as my guide. his plans are a shambles and he has utterly no way of mounting any offense against me. at all. the only thing he can do is run. but i WILL catch him,, and i have all day to figure out how/

i've shown ample support for all parts of my plan. i've shown numerous instances of wm feeding rich info that he himself can't see, and multiple instances of full shields. wm is a tactical genius and the plan of wait and see is nowhere CLOSE to ooc. i wonder: how many scans are there again that show dr light using a variety of powers in an energy form? and how many scans show his willingness to carry out a battle in photonic form...? both are issues that go 100% against every showing of dr light.....

quote:
Self or Characters: We're drafting the characters, not granting ourselves the powers. So CIS is on the table.


#gotem


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Old Post May 1st, 2015 12:37 AM
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Smurph
------

Gender: Male
Location:

Smurph Closing Arguments


I'm going to respond to the key points still being contended, and then I'm going to summarize the match and explain how, all details considered, Psychadelic will come out on top in this battle.

Nico's Limits
quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas


since that time, NO SPELL has 'backfired' on her. any showing of nico prior to her rebirth is useless. thanks to her new magic arm, she can even cast spells WITHOUT the staff. here she is healing and flying:

http://i.imgur.com/4jBe6dL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QMEccyC.jpg

nothing is backfiring, and the onus is on him to PROVE it would. good luck.
The onus is on me?

You're attempting to have Nico cast a variety of spell that she has never even attempted before, to emulate an extradimensional sorceress who she's never met, in order to trap an omega level psychic, and you're basing this on showings of Nico healing and flying? Or making houses dissappear?

The onus is not on me at all, this is exactly what a no limits fallacy is. I already showed that the Staff of One can backfire, and you've handwaved that away and claimed we needed more, or else we assume that Nico can do... anything? everything?

Lol, no.

quote:
spell language:

i wonder if smurph scanned the list of spells i provided. a second's perusal will reveal that SOME are quite literal, but others are much more colloquial and some you have to STRUGGLE to find the meaning of! spells like ABRAHAM LINCOLN to 'unvanish' her house, BOUNCE house to make attackers rise into the air, CAN OPENER to pull iron lad (young KANG!) out of his armor, CRYSTAL LIGHT made her house disappear... and on and on. just read through some of the spells and you will very quickly see that it is INTENT that determines the effect.
... again, no limits. Even if intent guides spell effect (which is a big if....), Nico doesn't have the first clue about constructing a trap for a psychic. We don't know if it's a one-time trap, if it's based in the astral plane, if it affects each form of telepathy... Nico has never done anything close to this.


Shields, Gravity Bubbles
quote:
not sure where his idea of 2-on-1 comes in.....we ARE amalgamated.... one more point here before i leave off. my shields would not hinder my spell casting at all. this is one of the reasons i chose her. nova doesn't do magic:

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...0magic.jpg.html
[/size]

as much as smurph may wish otherwise, there is NO chance that my shields would inhibit my ability to cast spells from inside them.
[/b]

... wait judges, it gets better:

quote:
there are countless examples of his force fields being blue, just as his containment fields/bubbles are blue. under different artists they may appear to be slightly different i guess, but, as smurph admitted, his powers are gravity based. given that they look the same, and stem from the same source, i'd submit that--in light of there being precisely ZERO evidence to the contrary--they (fields, shields, bubbles) should be considered the same thing. as such, there is no reason to suspect my standard shields couldn't block out tp attacks.


Haha, WHAT!?

Leo CAN'T simultaneously claim that: Rich's shields CAN'T contain magic, because Rich once made an irrelevant comment while blasting a Mindless One, but Rich's shields have ABSOLUTE DEFENSE from all sorts of psychic signals, because both his containment bubbles and shields are blue... no expression

The problem is:

IF we believe that Nova will contain himself in a bubble that blocks all signal in and out, then we believe that Nova cuts off all of his own extra-sensory scanning, and any ability to affect outside objects with magic... because that all works on the same mental signal as telekinesis or telepathy.

Alternatively, IF we believe that Nova simply raises a standard shield, not a containment bubble, that's fine. There's no proof at all of his shields possessing psychic protection, and so I'll simply reach through his shields and clot his brain.


quote:
'flying blind': again, wut? the opaque shielding ONLY PREVENTS VISIBLE LIGHT from entering. here worldmind shows it is capable of QUANTUM LEVEL scanning!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...senses.jpg.html
... which gets blocked by your containment bubble. thumb up

Also, that scan just shows Worldmind picking up 'quantum traces' of something, so, despite your caps locks, it's no proof that Worldmind even has the extrasensory abilities to show Rich an entire battlefield through non-visible light. It's like showing a scan of Batman hearing something, and using it to prove that he has 360 degree echolocation. Besides you saying 'QUANTUM LEVEL!', we have no proof of how extensive or sophisticated Worldmind's extra-visual scanning is...

Further proof: Worldmind says "I can't see him because he's in some kind of stealth-camouflage"

...but what about his QUANTUM LEVEL SCANNING!?

Worldmind only devises a way to find the invisible opponent AFTER he deduces that there is an invisible opponent in the first place- that's a deduction that he'll never make in this match, because he'll be fighting my hologram.

Second problem: when Worldmind shows Rich anything, he does it by displaying info on Rich's visor... which is also blocked by your opaque shield. thumb up Best case scenario, you'd have a moving waypoint, with no visual of your opponent or battlefield.

Psychadelic and CIS

Leo would like to point out that Dr. Light has no scans of going photonic and using his psychic knife at the same time.

... no expression

I have an amalgam character. Dr. Light has a photonic form, Psylocke has telepathy, telekinesis, and many different psychic blades. I am going to use them simultaneously because that's the point of amalgamating.

To reiterate: during the first part of the match, I am not in photonic form. I am invisible, and I am creating holograms to occupy and divert the attention, and shields, of Nova.

The moment that there is a gap in shields, or if I can do so immediately with telepathy/telekinesis, I will kill my opponent and end the match. He cannot find me, and my reactions are lightspeed.

Finally: Leo downplays Dr Light's showings of using his powers while inside a christmas light because, even though it's a perfectly fine showing of Arthur using powers while photonic, it hurts Leo's case.

The Match Itself!

So we have proof that Worldmind can't detect invisible foes:
http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...senses.jpg.html

Further, we have NO proof that Worldmind can scan through a battlefield with an altered visual spectrum, and we have NO proof that Worldmind can communicate an entire battlefield to Rich's brain (NOT his visor, which is just as useless as his eyes at the moment...).

What this means: Rich is flying blind.

Second, we know that Nova is either contained in a containment bubble that he has only used on his enemies, but that is ALSO Leo's only proof of psychic shields. So, either Leo contains himself completely, cutting off Worldmind and his magic, or he raises a standard shield... which has a failing record against psychic attacks, and has been completely bypasses twice. no expression

What this means: if Rich's shield is standard, or if the containment bubble is lowered, I'll simply kill him with omega-level TK or TP. Clot his brain, easy win.

Finally, the only thing Leo relies on Nico Minoru for, either: a) actively hinders him, or b), he has no proof of.

a) Nico creates a shield that entirely blinds Leo's amalgam.

b) Nico is meant to replicate a spell cast by Spiral, despite no evidence of her doing anything similar in style or scope... ever.

Psychadelic, meanwhile: Totally stealthed. Lightspeed movement and reflexes. Omega-level psychic. Teleportation, and photonic form. Holograms, and complete mastery of the battlefield.

You see exactly what she wants you to see.

Final closing thoughts:

Other edges I possess include blasts powerful enough to one-shot Superman. Those blasts can originate from my hologram.

I'll simply have my hologram blast through Nova's opaque shield, and then I'll stab his brain.

Good match Leo!


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Old Post May 11th, 2015 01:21 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

k, so let's wrap up. there isn't really....anything new in his final post. smurph just says the same things he said already. notice though an important point--not a single new scan presented to further support his ideas.... onward! seems there are several....misconceptions in need of clearing up:
quote:
Nico's LimitsThe onus is on me?

You're attempting to have Nico cast a variety of spell that she has never even attempted before, to emulate an extradimensional sorceress who she's never met, in order to trap an omega level psychic, and you're basing this on showings of Nico healing and flying? Or making houses dissappear?


no. i'm basing it on her already having created a DEFLECTION spell that bounced a powerful spell back at an uber powerful witch, and on her already overcoming the psychic control of an uber powerful witch. before those spells, guess what--she'd never done them before either. no expression he keeps trying to draw a comparison to spiral and nico. that is not the comparison i drew--i drew a comparison between the EFFECT and INTENT of the spell. a spell it turns out i don't even need anyway....

quote:
The onus is not on me at all, this is exactly what a no limits fallacy is. I already showed that the Staff of One can backfire, and you've handwaved that away and claimed we needed more, or else we assume that Nico can do... anything? everything?


quote:
no.
not AT ALL what i said, actually. i said the onus was on you to show the spell would BACKFIRE. i can't prove it wouldn't--while we're talking logical fallacies, that's called being asked to prove a negative. it's HIS job to show there is a chance it WOULD backfire. and after her upgrade, not a single spell backfired on her. BEFORE upgrade? sure, happened a few times. but this is nico AFTER her upgrade, and as you can see from his distinct lack of scans--there ARE no times her spells backfired. so, we can officially lay THAT myth aside....

quote:
... again, no limits. Even if intent guides spell effect (which is a big if....), Nico doesn't have the first clue about constructing a trap for a psychic. We don't know if it's a one-time trap, if it's based in the astral plane, if it affects each form of telepathy... Nico has never done anything close to this.


hmm, you think she knew how to....move a house? turn it into crystal lights? think she knew how to free all those people under psychic domination? what about when she bounced back victor mancha's EM attack? or what about this?

http://i.imgur.com/qDCcOYU.jpg

think she knew how THAT happened? she says stuff, it happens. that's what magic is. he's trying to make this seem like it's a one off thing. she's bounced power back at marie leveau, broken her psychic control. an alternate version bounced back victor mancha's attack (i know, i know, non-canon--but it IS a form of support that only further suggests this spell is NOT something terribly exotic or outside her abilities.) she doesn't (in fact she NEVER does) need to 'understand' anything. she speaks and the spell works based solely on her intent. of course it has limits (he could have spent some time showing them i guess....) but deflecting power back? it's certainly nothing new. i showed a couple scans already.

here she affects the minds of a couple in a very nasty way:

http://i.imgur.com/aWsaBWT.jpg

and here she actually reads the mind and memories of a DEAD TIME TRAVELER:

http://i.imgur.com/qOuFlhf.jpg

couldn't raise her, but it COULD read her mind and pull out memories.

what is clear is this: she has completed several spells that affect people on a psionic level, and she has reflected power back at her opponents. understanding has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. need more proof? here she casts a spell and didn't even know what the spell meant!

http://s1151.photobucket.com/user/s...cavate.jpg.html

she just spoke it and it happened. if you don't think i showed enough, again, i urge you to look at some of the spells listed in the STAFF OF ONE description here:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Staff_of_One

look them over and you will quickly see that what i'm asking is NOT anything beyond her abilities. at all.

quote:
Leo CAN'T simultaneously claim that: Rich's shields CAN'T contain magic, because Rich once made an irrelevant comment while blasting a Mindless One, but Rich's shields have ABSOLUTE DEFENSE from all sorts of psychic signals, because both his containment bubbles and shields are blue... no expression


huh? of course i can say that. why...? well, because that is what was shown. on panel. no expression rich is explicit in saying his powers don't work against magic, (i think he's know....) and they were explicitly shown containing a psionic entity AND cutting off psionic control. this isn't as if i'm just randomly claiming stuff. THAT IS WHAT WAS SHOWN ON PANEL. maybe it doesn't make sense to him, but, what can i say? take it up with marvel?

quote:
IF we believe that Nova will contain himself in a bubble that blocks all signal in and out, then we believe that Nova cuts off all of his own extra-sensory scanning, and any ability to affect outside objects with magic... because that all works on the same mental signal as telekinesis or telepathy.


lol wut? that is..... blink we've seen, countless times, worldmind working just fine when rich is shielded. in his space battles he's always shielded. worldmind works fine. i even showed a scan where he is autoshielded BY worldmind. confused why he thinks this shield would block worldmind is...beyond me. his helmet shields from psi attacks--like the shields have been shown to--but worldmind works fine--and he's IN THE HELMET. this stuff is too obvious to belabor.....


quote:
Alternatively, IF we believe that Nova simply raises a standard shield, not a containment bubble, that's fine. There's no proof at all of his shields possessing psychic protection, and so I'll simply reach through his shields and clot his brain.


here is the crux: he can't prove my shield is the same as the 'bubbles' he's trying to differentiate them from. i've shown why it is reasonable to think they ARE the exact same (same colour, same power source, etc...) and he's offered NOTHING to refute said proof except his opinion. SOME evidence>ZERO evidence. while shielded he's never suffered a psi attack. same source of power. same colour. against his...word they aren't the same? there's no proof they aren't. there's only his speculation. not enough.


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Old Post May 12th, 2015 09:38 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

but..... for the sake of argument, let's say for a second the shield does NOT protect against psi attacks. you STILL need to believe he can get through my fully prepped psi shielding helmet (something that has never happened), and then, if you feel he does, he just ko's or stuns himself due to my spell.

so even if he gets what he wants, he STILL loses.


quote:
...but what about his QUANTUM LEVEL SCANNING!?


lol notice, PLEASE, i beg you, that he STILL hasn't addressed the fact that SUPERMAN HEARD HIS HEARTBEAT! i mean, c'mon.....does he truly think given the level of scanning i just (molecular, quantum) that i wouldn't just HEAR him?? oi vey..... seeing/HEARING through his invisibility would pose utterly no issue. none.

and i think he missed in that scan where it said wm was attacked by a nano-cloud. by the time it arrived to the time it realized the guy was stealthed and created an algorithm to find him was what? a couple seconds? and gonna go out on a limb and suggest that his heartbeat was hidden. no expression

quote:
that's a deduction that he'll never make in this match, because he'll be fighting my hologram.


wm is never going to be fooled by a hologram. ever.

quote:
Second problem: when Worldmind shows Rich anything, he does it by displaying info on Rich's visor... which is also blocked by your opaque shield.


again, wut? the info OUTSIDE THE SPHERE would be projected to his visor. whew.....

quote:
Leo would like to point out that Dr. Light has no scans of going photonic and using his psychic knife at the same time.


lol i'd like to point about the absolute dearth of evidence that light can use a variety of powers while in his energy form. and i have. note again the distinct lack of support to show light CAN do anything while in his energy form--or anything at all substantial. i mean, seriously? don't you think we'd SEE him doing sh!t in an energy form if he could? it's not like he hasn't had a huge number of appearances. and yet, aside from moving some christmas lights.... nothing at all. absence of evidence isn't evident of absence, but damn, it certainly is suggestive....

quote:
I have an amalgam character. Dr. Light has a photonic form, Psylocke has telepathy, telekinesis, and many different psychic blades. I am going to use them simultaneously because that's the point of amalgamating.


you mean like i'm using richie's and nico's powers....? heh

quote:
The moment that there is a gap in shields, or if I can do so immediately with telepathy/telekinesis, I will kill my opponent and end the match. He cannot find me, and my reactions are lightspeed.


here again, the crux of his problem--no gap in my shields and i'm thoroughly protected, in multiple ways, from his tp. i can stay in my shield all day if i choose.... and light speed reactions? if he is staying physical, that is AWESOME! lol he's done almost immediately. BLACKBOX will seal his EM powers, followed by a bubble to contain his psionic powers and the fight is over. that's it. hell, he likely wouldn't even know what happened. he'd still think he was invisible, waiting for me to attack his hologram, when in reality i will have heard his heartbeat with wm's senses and have discovered him. he can't see me, so has no idea if i am fooled. while he is confused about what to do, i trap him. done. based on the offense he's chosen to go with, not sure how else it could end..... he could try and cover the distance between us as a physical entity, but he'd never make it before he was trapped. if he converts to energy i already painted a number of options for catching him. the reason he has taken to some of these...odd arguments, is because he has absolutely no way of attacking me.

quote:
a) Nico creates a shield that entirely blinds Leo's amalgam.


all nico did was make it OPAQUE. the shield is nova's. so be very clear what he is saying--he's saying nova is creating a shield that BLOCKS ALL OF WM'S SENSES. no expression i mean, seriously, i can't deal. can you picture that in a book? it is critical you pay attention at this time: richard, you have blinded me! it's beyond ridiculous....no word play, no misdirection--it was is ridiculous.

quote:
b) Nico is meant to replicate a spell cast by Spiral, despite no evidence of her doing anything similar in style or scope... ever.


except for the times she's affected people on a psionic level and reflected power back?

quote:
Other edges I possess include blasts powerful enough to one-shot Superman. Those blasts can originate from my hologram.

I'll simply have my hologram blast through Nova's opaque shield, and then I'll stab his brain. [/B]


hmm, you'd think if his holograms could blast with superman ko'ing power he'd have shown something like that.

a more likely ending? he gets trapped before he even knows i've heard him or created an algorithm to find him. or, since he's physical, once he's found (again, he can't see me so he'd have no idea i found him) maybe i just unleash an omniblast from my shield as i showed last post and simply ko him old school style? his staying physical was a bad decision and makes it extremely easy to take him out very quickly.

the biggest issue for him--he could never harm me. his EM control was neutered by my grav shields, and by the opacity of my shield. his tp was negated by my shields/helmet/spell. there was literally no offense he could mount. in my shield, i find him (supes heard his HEARTBEAT, lol) then trap him, or ko him with an AOE attack that took out all the revengers at once.

superior firepower, superior defense, superior versatility. leonico minova ftw.

thanks for another entertaining match my friend, and thanks to those who stuck with us throughout. judges, it's all yours.


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Old Post May 12th, 2015 09:39 PM
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Stoic
Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: United States, New Jersey

I am ready to give my decision. I was just waiting on the other judges to weigh in, and give their decisions. I have mine ready to give. I'll allow them until 8pm Eastern standard, and then I will submit my judgement. Great debate from both sides guys, I enjoyed reading this.


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Old Post May 14th, 2015 06:57 PM
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Blair Wind
The Iron Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: Stark Tower

laughing

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
judges, just a reminder to please send your votes in to blair instead of just posting them in the match or here. thanks much. smile


I have one from someone who followed the rules. laughing out loud

Everyone else, send me the votes. I actually don't know the number of judges, but I'm assuming we are missing 2 more.


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Old Post May 16th, 2015 06:46 PM
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Badabing
LiZod

Gender: Male
Location: Isla Nublar

Moderator

Bentley and Omega, I PMed your vote posts to Blair and deleted them in this thread.

I will have my vote within the next few days. I've been busy with work and have been sick the past 2-3 days. Sorry for the delay.


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Old Post May 17th, 2015 08:16 PM
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Badabing
LiZod

Gender: Male
Location: Isla Nublar

Moderator

I've PMed my vote to Blair. Good job Smurph and Leo.


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Old Post May 19th, 2015 02:24 AM
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Blair Wind
The Iron Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: Stark Tower

4 votes are in. Vote is at 3-1, so I'll be revealing the judgement now (as it was 5 judges total).


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Old Post May 19th, 2015 05:10 AM
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Blair Wind
The Iron Avenger

Gender: Male
Location: Stark Tower

Stoic's Vote

I've read through this debate, and it was very close, however I have come to a decision. Again this wasn't an easy one, because you both had very compelling arguments. I side with Leo, because even though the spells that he uses can be somewhat inconsistent, he is using a simple one. In my opinion he made certain to shore up his weaknesses, and this is why I gave him a slight lead. With the World Mind dictating his next move and his ability to use force fields not only as a means of defense but also as an offensive measure, I could not see a way around this tactic.

I very nearly gave the win to Existere, because of his use of exotic and more esoteric abilities. I was nearly compelled to give him the win based on the moment that the battle began he could induce a stroke like seizure in most of his enemies brains at a whim. Like I said it was very close for me, but I have sided with Leo's battle strategy, highly due to the rebound spell.


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Last edited by Blair Wind on May 19th, 2015 at 05:15 AM

Old Post May 19th, 2015 05:11 AM
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