Scoobs states that I need to prove that I can get past him shrinking, etc, etc...
Scoobs fail to realize that my speed is much greater than his, my thought process is faster, I, CARVER9 have the advantage here. I can get to him before he's able to gain a thought process of shrinking, or doing whatever else he plans on doing. Scoob has to remember, Black Bolt AND Magneto powers are irrelevant here. My own personal shield negates Magneto power and my bracers and speed counters everything Scoobs could potentially throw at me with BB. Let me go more in depth with the speed advantage that I have here.
Diana has moved so fast that she was not only able to blitz AMAZO before he could react, she tied him up before he got the chance to move.
Lets move on to reflexes since I did say I would be multitasking during the onset of my blitz because again, the distance between Scoobs and myself is nothing to me. I will cover that distance in no time. Hell, it took her to grab a Martian and carry her in space in almost an instant. To the point that some of the fastest speedsters didn't see her blitz off. So, now we are on reflexes. Wonder Woman beats this dude a** faster than thought (Scoobs thought). Faster than a heart beat. He is gone.
Here we have Wonder Woman intercepting heating vision and blocking all of them casually and this was being shot by Amazo (who had Superman and Wonder Woman super speed during the time... he didn't have her self aware reflexes though).
I'm not going to clog up this thread proving Wonder Woman is elite fast. Everyone should know this. Scoobs failed to counter my argument because for 1, he is too slow to react. Proof that he is too slow to react.
Ikaris, who is leagues slower than Wonder Woman, someone who only broke the sound barrier here was able to blitz BB (Scoobs fastest character).
(please log in to view the image)
Not only does he start off with a blitz, he had enough time to blitz behind black bolt (my tactic) and grab him. Scoobs will not react to my attack until it is done.
I could be missing something but what speed fts does any of Scoobs character have? Magneto grabbed Northstar but its obvious Northstar wasn't moving anywhere near his prime AND NS doesn't go anywhere close to light due to his durability. Plus, the showing doesn't go along with Magneto history like getting blitzed by his son (who is much slower than WW, especially during that time) along with other showings contradicting that one speed ft. Scoobs will be my pet during this fight and I dont see how he could counter the start of my attack...blitz, get rid of his shield with magic and a shield disrupter and draining him dry. He will be helpless to this attack unless he can show me something proving he can keep up with someone like me.
Show me some proof Scoobles. Show me that you can hang with me going full notch with my speed and agility/reflexes. How would you make Magneto relevant in this fight when I have special shields that counters your power? Hell, I can turn your power against you...
Hell, why not add some Doombots into the mix as well.
I cant summon a dimension but I can summon enough to confuse you. Not like you can speed around until you find me. While I am in this state, I will then start scanning for you while you're busy tussling through the beings I conjured (that is destroying the area around you).
I have a guidance system that could probably guide me to his location.
I could use my micro computer/infrared system to analyze the area as well. He will be located and to my knowledge Scoobs, you can not shrink to other dimensions or too small to not be seen. Once I find you, I can continue my assault with random blasts, punches, etc... remember, you have no shield, you have a scream but its irrelevant since you are the size of an ant. You will probably take to the sky since I've summoned numerous of monsters to take you out on the ground which again would make you my victim. You either stay on the ground while I hover above you trying to locate you (while moving at super speed) or you take to the sky giving me a better chance at locating my victim. Your choice my friend.
Ok, Carv has focused on speed, and I'll freely admit that Wonder Woman is faster than any one of my drafts, which is a cool/decisive thing to have as an advantage most of the time... just not this time.
The fact is simply this - There is no way Vunder Von Dooman can locate, traverse the distance, break through Magneto's shielding and KO Black Bolt's toughness before my Atom powers shrink me out of the way of a fistfight.
Tony Stark, with Armour comparable to Doom (if not better with his bleeding edge tech) could never power through Magneto's shields and is rightly scared of being hit with an EMP, as Doom should be too:
Bypass any shielding by being too small or via magnetic field/electron manipulation
Disrupt blood flow via magnetically halting all iron, thereby cutting off oxygen to target's brain
Make way to target's brain
Set off EMP to wipe target's mind clean
Shout at brain to destroy target's head
...nothing Carv has posted has defended against any of it. One random scan of a 40 year old comic where Doom turns a single energy blast back at Magneto is not proof of immunity to all magnetism, if Tony can't do it as recently as AVX when he went in fully prepped, I doubt (highly doubt) Doom would be prepared for a random encounter. Even IF he somehow was prepped, Black Bolt's Quasi-sonic scream would screw his armour systems to the point of uselessness anyway.
My No-Homo amalgam will enter yours and explode with power (things just got weird, right?)
Seriously... Sub atomic sized AND shielded from detection. There's just no way Vunder Dooman is ever going to detect No-Homo before penetration is achieved ... I mean, before me an my helmet are inside you...no, how about I enter through your open orrifaces ... dammit, is there a non dirty way to describe what the Atom does on a regular basis?
Whether or not he can affect Ironman is irrelevant because Doom's forcefield has a winning trackrecord against Mag's powers so ABC logic doesn't work here.
As for shrinking, even if people bought that he could shrink before someone with WW's speed and that the sensors in Doom's armor couldn't detect Scoob's guy, shrinking actually REDUCES his offensive power. Smaller body=smaller lungs=smaller voice=Less powerful scream from Blackbolt. Not only that, if Scoobs has Mag's forcefield up it means he's gotta blast through his own forcefield in addition to blasting through Dooms and if he blast through his own forcefield or takes it down to scream, it means he'll basically give away his general location and open him up to something like a blast of Tranquilizer Gas...
So to sum up, Mag's offensive powers=worthless his defensive powers=vulnerable to Doom's magical blasts, Blackbolt's powers= reduced, Atom's powers=annoying at best. Wonder Doom has speed, strength, skill, intelligence, versitility, and a variety of tactics to bring down Scoob's even if he somehow deals with the initial speedblitz.
Alright, Carv seems to be laying his entire plan on a KO before I use the Atom's power to shrink myself. Let's go through the steps:
Enter battlefield - Scan area (possible radius of what? ... 5 miles?) - Locate No-Homo - cover the distance to No-Homo - KO No-Homo
And this would all have to be completed in an instant to catch someone who can shrink to avoid a blast wave after a small atomic explosion occured. Seriously, he'd have to do all that in less than one second because my steps are much simpler
Enter battlefield - shrink
No-Homo is already starting to shrink as Carv's creation is just starting to search for him. Which plan do you believe is most likely to be executed first? (mine, right?... right?!?)
Now that that is out of the way, the rest of Carv's argument is moot. Gas attack? I already posted a scan of Atom being smaller than the atoms that make up a gas, it couldn't possibly work. He focused instead on me using BB's scream attack as my big play, and it is a good one, but it's just plan B for now. I've clearly stated I will be using a shrink/enter body tactic and Carver has yet to post a single counter to that.
Love ya Scoobs and yes homo but I dont think you know how fast the speed of light is. Let me explain. The speed of light can circle Earth SEVEN times in one second. Do you think a couple of miles between us is of any significance here (Scoobs fastest character couldn't even defend himself against a guy who broke the sound barrier)? I go almost TWICE the speed of light (I go much faster but per the rules, I cant hit TWICE the speed but I'm guessing I can go 1.9 the speed of light).
I can circle the world 3 times and have enough time to still perform my attack on you. No way around this Scoobs, you will NOT get off a thought, you will be like a statue to me until I am done.
Do you honestly think your thoughts are relevant here? Diana tied up AMAZO (who had the powers of the JLA as shown during the scan. Speed of Flash, etc...) before his thought process got off the word "situation". She blitz (while he is thinking situation) tie up his arm and tie his entire body up before he finished his word. Si tu at ion... AMAZO was tied up faster than he can think
Hell, she had enough time to tie both of his arm up and tie both of them behind his back and then put the lasso around his chest before Amazo could react or complete a "word thought".
Your thoughts are nothing to me Scoobs, no way around this but you are as frozen as a cold winter log (yes, I know that was lame).
Scoobs, do you remember where I said your powers are irrelevant to me? I meant that. ALL of your powers mean nothing to me. I told you during the onset of this fight that Doom always have something in play, because, his ARMOR adapts to any situation. I dont think you understood what I meant by that. Let me go into detail with this.
Doom Armor has adaptive technology that could seal demons out of it. His armor adapts.
So we know how useful Doom armor is. We know that it has adaptive abilities? A mind of its own. Hell, it can even conjure spells. Scoobs states that his goal is to attempt to get into my body, go past my armor. Thats IF he get past my speed and if anyone knows how fast the speed of light is, Scoobs will not get past that. I have all day to perform my tasks. Anyways, Scoobs tells us that he will get past my self aware armor. It aint happening because for one he has to get past my shield (and you also have to remember, I said if Scoobs went small, I would cloak myself. I've proven I could see past cloaking; Scoobs need to prove the same thing) that is not just a regular shield. It is built with lots of material to prevent almost any attack from entering. Example of Doom armor and Shielding canceling out powers.
Here we have Kitty Pride PHASING abilities failing against Doom. His armor cancelled out her powers.
Now whats the downfall of this attempt Scoobs is trying to do? My shields are up which again hinders magneto abilities. Black Bolt powers are now irrelevant since he shrunk down to the size of an Atom (which is self bfr in my book. We will let the judges decide that) and now he is trying to approach my armor with Atoms power. Aint gonna work. I cancelled out Rachel powers who had possession of the Phoenix Force. Kitty Pride powers who tried to phase into me and Nightcrawler powers who ports him into another dimension. Scoobs is F*****. Him even approaching my armor is risky because it could undo his shrinking abilities which would then proceed with me beating him into paste or attempting my draining again (which was successful during the first attempt. Lets just say Scoobs was successful and his normal mind was able to get past my FTL movement speed (aint happening)). My armor and shieldings is a deadly combo. My armor has an adaptive mind of its own. My armor and shielding can turn off powers. Hell, Doom could deactivate a person powers via magic as well.
My options are limitless. So again, I attack Scoobs at FTL speeds where he isn't even moving an inch (remember, I moved so fast that Amazo couldn't react or get out a thought. Amazo speed piss on Scoobs speed). I attack his shielding which shouldn't take no time at all since I am mixing magic with shield dampners. Once his shielding is gone, I drain him dry. Scoobs is comparing Atom shrinking before a bomb went off. That aint crap compared to Diana speed. I will see him shrinking because I have the speed to do so. I will (if he even get this small) grab him before he becomes tiny and his powers would be gone. Thats all it takes is a touch.
On ignore list: Darksaint
Last edited by carver9 on Nov 6th, 2015 at 06:55 PM
Carver still going for misdirection from the one and only point he has to prove - Can he, or can he not detect an opponent who is the same size, or smaller than, an atom?
If the answer is yes, then he has to show that he can still do that while the tiny opponent is cloaked and mobile.
Carv seems caught up in the idea that this is a running race, stting how fast he can travel... Wonder Woman can travel 7 time around the world in a second? I'd love to see that (really) irrelevant though, the issue is not solely travel speed, it's also location speed and can he do all he claims AND bust Magneto's shields before the Atom can shrink out of punching range, gotta say I really, really doubt it.... and the Atom shrinking speed feat I posted wasn't before the bomb went off, it was after, and he got small enough to slip between radiation AFTER that bomb went off - that's pretty damn fast
As for claims of being unable to withstand a Wonder Woman level assault, Black BOlt has gone toe to toe with most of Marvel's heavy hitters including Hulk, Gladiator, Ronan, Thor and otehrs and come out on top way more often than he has lost. Gladiator in particular is basically a copy of Superman with the same powers including Speed. Hulk is stronger than WW (debateable to some)
The WW scan Arv loves to throw up regarding Amazo is against a confused, damaged version who is; A) standing right in front of her and; B) most likely focused on Superman as the greater threat of the two
Tieing up someone two feet from you is hardly the same as attempting to locate someone who is already shrinking in an unknown starting location, especially when said person can best a Superman clone in H2H
As I've said, Black Bolt's voice is mostly a fallback weapon (at least to begin with) If Carv somehow does manage to engage before I have shrunk down I will of course, use it, it has, after all, f**ked up everyone from Iron Man to Hulk to Gladiator to.... Thanos? well, maybe not that far, but he did hurt Thanos more than Hulk, Hyperion or Thor and caused the Titan to bleed a lot(While also destroying Attilan in the process):
So in the end he lost, but it's Thanos, so that's ok, everyone loses to Thanos. (and I heard arguments that BB was at less than peak power due to charging up the terrigen dispersal bomb with his own power)
He did withstand a hell of a beating from big T before getting KOd though, I'd even wager he did better than Wonder Woman OR Doom could do by themselves (or even amalgamated)
So why am I not just coming out of the gate screaming? Because I have no idea what WW's shield can take and it makes my other characters redundant. So we're shrinking unless stopped. If stopped we're screaming the house down and following with massive EMPs then can crushing pressure on Doom's frazzled armour... and then shrinking during the aftermath of the scream (not whisper) and doing my whole initial plan thing anyway... if Princess Doom is still alive that is
Funny you put it like that. That's exactly why I drafted him. I thought to myself "who would be the most annoying low herald to try to kill...." and I came up with the Atom. WHich is proving fruitful as you, Carver, seem to be going out of your way to avoid having to deal with him... because you can't????. Yeah. Thought so.
AS for Doom's armour having such uber-defenses... here's a couple of scans of things getting inside his armour:
Sand and Gas... two things much larger than I will be in this match. Sure those scans are old school, but so are the incorrectly labelled scans of Magneto Carv posted (they aren't from SUper Villain Team Up, they are from Champions)
And as far as "adaptive armour" goes... you have to experience something before you can adapt to it. In other words, because Doom has never dealt with someone like the Atom, his armour will have no standing defences against him or his powers. And there's only so much magnetic power that can be countered by tech, eventually everything is vulnerable... and Black Bolt?... I'm not sure anything can effectively counter this guy.
Do you even KMC???
Last edited by Scoobless on Nov 8th, 2015 at 05:06 PM
Ok do you actually believes that the Atom has the Flash/Superman level reflexes needed to react to a lightspeed attack based on him shrinking out of the way of the atomic blast as it happened? And that's what Atom says, he shrank as the blast hit... not that he shrank in response to the blast hitting. That doesn't mean that he can think "shrink" before Wonder Doom can hit him, we're talking about someone who has a virtual supercomputer for a brain coupled with lightspeed reflexes and near lightspeed traveling capabilities. Regardless of how quickly his shrinking process works, Atom's not a bonified speedster by any stretch of the imagination.
As for your scans of gas and sand being used effectively against Doom, not only are they old as you yourself admit(and Doom constantly updates his armor), they only show things getting through the armor... there's no idication of Doom's forcefield being active at the time. Things like energy blast and electromagnetic particles/waves are far smaller than gas or sand and has been shown to NOT get through the forcefield. You might theoretically be able to be able to play keep away IF people believed Doom's sensors were unable to detect something giving off electromagnetic energy(which is almost a silly notion when you get right down to it), but you got nothing to indicate you can get through Doom's forcefield. But at that size, there's nothing you can really do to do damage through Doom's forcefield. As for BB's scream, it's undoubtedly powerful... but the fact that wispers do less damage than screams is proof of the fact that less sound= less power so the smaller your guy the less powerful the attack.
Meanwhile, Mag's forcefield has been showed to be ineffective against magic...
Your forcefield is virtually useless. Your shrinking, is most likely useless as well against the sensors in Doom's armor, and while BB has decent durability, there's no way he's going to be able to deal with repeated shots from someone with WW strength/speed/skill who's going for the kill.
On ignore list: Darksaint
Last edited by carver9 on Nov 8th, 2015 at 07:30 PM
If the fight started within arms reach of each other, face to face, you may have a point. but as far as I know, and as far as the last tourney (where we got the rules and everything else) we start off far apart with no knowledge of the others location.
The fact is simply this - my shrinking and your searching start at exactly the same time, even if it only takes Doom's scans a second to find me, I'll already be microscopic or smaller before you can arrive, at that point you'd need an entirely different method of scanning to have any hope of locating me.
Here's a scene that proves most of what I'm planning:
Bypassing "impenetrable" force fields, entering / disrupting / destroying brains .... riding lightwaves = lightspeed - and Magneto can manuplate those waves/particles to go any direction I want, so I can essentially be as small as an electron and travelling at the speed of light going wherever I damn well please, force field or no force field. Doom shield's are good, but Darkseid's are better, but still not good enough.
Time to end this. Good job Scoobs and thanks for the challenge.
Ok here we go...
There are some problems with Scoobs shrinking plan.
1. The Atom/Darkseid scans are from Rock of Ages which is technically non-cannon. Scoobs, you are using non canon material.
2. Shrinking so small that one cannot actually interact with the battlefield SHOULD constitute self BFR which is only allowed as a phasing tactic for a period of 1 second via tourney rules.
3. Even if the judges decide to allow Scoobs to remain in that state indefinitely, there are serious logistical problems in his doing so. Scoobs plan's on going smaller(sub atomic), but let's assume for a second that he shrank down to the size of a hydrogen atom. A hydrogen atom has a diameter of approx 10.6 nanometres... http://www.answers.com/Q/ How_many_...one
...which means it takes approximately 2.4 MILLION of them to cover a distance of a single inch. So if a 6 ft tall individual became as tall as a single hydrogen atom, 1 inch would be the equivalent of 14,400,000 MILLION feet... which is a little over 2,727 MILES... and that means that a single foot is the equivelent to 32,727 miles. For those who don't know, the circumference of Earth itself is about 24,000 miles... http://whyzz.com/how-big-is-the-earth
Let's see, there are 5,280 feet in a mile so if we multiply that by 32,727 it means the equivalent to Scoobs of a single mile is 172,788,560 miles(to put that in perspective, the distance between the Earth and the Sun is only 92,955,807 miles) and the equivalent for the 7 miles between us 1,209,519,920 miles(nearly the distance from Earth to Saturn). How's he gonna find me to fly at me at that scale? For that matter, even with Mag's powers how's he going to steer light across a distance of 7 miles? Think about it, light will cover 7 miles virtually instantly and Scoobs he'd be traveling 1,209,519,920 miles near instantly... who here thinks that Mags, Blackbolt, or the Atom have the reflexes necessary to accomplish such a monumental feat? That's why the Atom rode an arrow aimed at DS's eye, there's no way he could have successfully navigated a light beam successfully at the distance he was standing. And keep in mind, that's if he were the size of a hydrogen atom, according to Scoob's he's going to shrink to the size of an electron(which is a LOT smaller than a hydrogen atom) as soon as the bell rings so we're actually talking about distances that likely span multiple solar systems and speed equivelents that put Flash's best speed feats to shame. He couldn't do such a thing off even if I were stationary and as I said early on, if I can't locate him right off I'll retreat and cloak myself... and factoring in his compensating for my speed in addition to all that is math that I'm not even going to try to do.
My cloak is something else to counter his attack. Think about it, invisibility cloaks function by bending light around the things they're cloaking so trying to ride the light just means he'll be riding waves that are going to be bent around my cloak. And despite the Atom/DS scans, we all know that thing's like light bypassing things like forcefields are story dependent plot device silliness. Forcefields block things like lasers(light) all the time and characters who bend light around them for invisibility can still see(unless we all believe that Mag's was blind in Scoob's scan where he cloaked himself).
As for using Mag's powers to steer the light, even if he had the reactions to do such a thing he'd be creating electromagnetic disturbances and Doom's sensors can already detect that kind of thing...
And let's not forget that Scoob's plans on maintaining Mags forcefield while he flies through mine and that my forcefield has already proven capable of REPELLING Mag's powers... if he flies into my forcefield it's going to shoot him back out the way the Hulk's body shoots out bullets that penetrate his skin.
4. Scoob's inability to actually attack me effectively at the relative speeds we'll both be moving at basically gives me all the time in the time in the world to re-calibrate Doom's sensors to allow me to find him with the greatest of ease and once I do that it's a simple matter of throwing up the Crimson Bands of Cyttorack.
And note, you can't SEE through the Bands(no riding lightwaves out) and magic exist outside of the laws of science anyway, so he's not getting out anyway you cut it and he'd be so small they they wouldn't be "bands" to him, they'd completely encompass him.
1. Even if we were to assume that Scoobs could shrink before I reached him(and to believe that one would have to believe that he's got Flash/Supes level reactions)his shrinking actually works AGAINST his own guy and plays right into my hands. Shrinking reduces Mag's and Blackbolt's powers and makes reaching me or even FINDING me all but impossible.
2. Even if we were to assume that Doom's sensors were somehow unable to detect his presense, he's given me all the time in the world to re-calibrate my sensors and cast scrying spells to help find him.
3. Even if we were to assume he could penetrate Doom's forcefield that utilizes a unique blend of science and magic just by shrinking(cause we've seen that Mag's powers are utterly useless against it), he's either going to get spit right back out because my forcefield repels Mag's powers or have his own powers thrown completely out of whack by the field just as it did against Nightcrawler trying to teleport through it... http://i.imgur.com/QAs4g32.jpg
...the power/versatility of his armor and strength of his forcefield, and the physical attributes/defenses/skill/weapons of Wonder Woman... he just doesn't have a prayer of withstanding the kind of offensive power Wonder Doom brings to the table. And since Mag's powers are all but useless, Blackbolt's voice/powers are easy enough to dodge/deflect with WW's speed or blocked via her bracers/Aegis Shield...
Firstly, "Rock of Ages" happened in continuity in JLA comics, it was cannon as the characters who travelled to the future had full memory of it when they returned and it had effects that lasted beyond it's own story arc. Also it's just one way Atom can use his powers, there was no amping of any kind going on to suuggest that anything new cam into play.
Secondly, Shringking is not self BFR, I am still completely within the battleground, I'm just harder to find.
Thirdly, your math lesson is a waste of time. regardless of scale, the radiation/light waves I will be riding are still moving at light speed relative to normal sized people (much like Ray has ridden through telephone lines over the years)
I never outright stated I would be maintaining Magneto's force field while tiny, I said I'd be cloaked. Black Bolt has his own force field as well, something that Doom can't claim to simply nerf, in fact it was one of the first powers he ever exhibited:
Even as a baby he could instinctively create force fields, power blasts and even fly.
Doom repelling/reversing a single (simple) directed energy attack does not mean he can simply wave away all of Magneto's powers. Here's an example of supposedly effective mutant countermeasures being bypassed by Magneto (though not by Polaris)
Energy fields and metal ... apply enough magnetic force and eventually it all succumbs.
Cloaking shields tend to block the visible spectrum of light (Like the Invisible Woman) we can't see them with the naked eye, but light still gets in and out, with Black Bolt's energy senses and Magneto's, um, also energy senses, I can easily detect things/people that would normally be labelled "invisible" by a normal human.
And, yes, Magneto can manipulate the course of light/photons as shown with the invisibility cloak erlier, and this:
Altering the course of a single particle/wave of light will be no problem.
As for Doom's attempt at the Crimson Bands, Strange flat out tells him he's doing it wrong. So Doom and his armour need a few more lessons in the mystic arts it seems, and when they aren't summoned properly, they get phucked up:
This is effectively technological super-speed. six and a half months worth of experience within 75 seconds, use your super-math powers to figure out how fast my reaction speed will be at this level (slightly above Wonder-Woman's I'd wager)
"but Atom had to take time to build it" (some might say) - maybe, but I'm going to take a shortcut using a combination of Black Bolt & Magneto's powers along with Atom's knowledge:
Black Bolt can transmute Electron's to change energy and materials from one form to another and reshape them:
Yaaaaayyyyyy....I'm dancing right now. Two stepping. Thanks guys, you are the best. I thought Professor was going to vote against me because he knows deep down inside Hulk would piss on Superman (just playing). Thanks again. Scoobs. In your BZ against ABHI, you won it based off speed. Your entire argument circled around ABHI not being able to react in time. I'm sure you felt somewhere down the line that speed was a huge issue here.