I didn't get an answer in my question of the discussion thread so I hope it's ok to have this post just to to fix my broken links from PG's post. as NOT part of my post count. (let me know if this is included.)
Just links in order (hopefully), also don't know what happened to my heading I did underline and bold but even in my sent PM they don't appear that way yet did in preview??
here (and yes it a COIE appearance) Occult along with Alan Scot are the focus to use the magic power of EVERY DCU mystic. He literally shares in wielding half the power of all the most powerful mystics in DCU.
Or another of Day of Jusdgement's feats (already posted above in my reposted links) where he absorbs all the magic of Phantom Stranger, Zatanna and every other DCU mystic present and gives it to Hal Jordan's soul so that he can fight the Spectre.
How is it possible that he wields such power !!!
Well in fact he doesn't. his disk can absorb magic or natural energy and use it (it's better at magic obviously).
You made the horrible mistake of bringing not one but TWO highly powerful magical talismans into a fight with someone who can wield their very own energy against them.
I'm sorry but there is simply no way you can say your magic weapon is more powerful than mine because mine uses ALL others magic. It will be in this battle powered by Stormbreaker and the soul sword.
Now to your contention that you can cloak yourself from anything.
Your feats of cloaking from Galactus (which I'll be honest I never even opened - I trust you) are great and all.
However in doing so was he in possession of two powerful artifacts that emit great magical energy??
Does Galactus have a power that is attuned specifically to that energy?
Your own scans show that the Soul Sword can sever the bands of Cyttorak. Is Cyttorak not pretty close to Galactus equal??
Just because your able to conceal yourself from Galactus doesn't mean you'll be able to hide your powerful magic talismans from the guy who possesses a talisman that can sense and wield all magic.
To further prove my point during Reign in hell Occult was able to find a way out of hell when No other could. when the ways were concealed so the other "more powerful mystics" couldn't find them.
1. You wont be undetected.
2. All Your Stormbreaker Attack is going to do is strengthen Occult's shields as they absorb the power of Strombreaker to power them.
3. The same is said for your soul sword attack.
So far you've produced nothing that can harm my build and I haven't even evoked the powers of my more powerful characters.
Here he catches up to Sinestro (who had a head start) in moments. Somewhere between earth and Mars, in MOMENTS. It takes light 18 minutes to get from Earth to mars. let's be generous and say that they're only a 1/4 the way and moments was a couple of minutes. Still a couple times the speed of light.
Well judges, we've seen Captain Comet manipulate Lantern energies and we've seen Dr. Occult shield/absorb (?) against the energy blast from DoJ Spectre. Truly, Beatboks' energy manipulation is impressive...
...so I guess I'm glad I didn't use an energy attack!
I'm happy that Beatboks is happy that he's used three drafts to achieve what Vulcan could do for one. Vulcan would be great against, say, Captain Atom. My approach, however, is more primitive, and more effective.
While he prepares to redirect a wide variety of energy blasts, a cloaked Stormbreaker will blow a hole through his torso.
First, because this is a debate, I'm going to tackle some of the clashes between our OP's, as well as points Beatboks raised in his post. Then I'm going to get back to why this match inevitable ends with Stormbreaker-through-the-torso:
Occult's Disc of the Seven vs. Soulsword
OK, I'm going to expand on how powerful the Soulsword is, but I really don't think it's necessary:
All of Dr. Occult's noteworthy feats have to do with redirecting, or manipulating, magical energy. Beatboks only posted one feat that actually affected a magical item: that is, not a magical blast of energy:
Dr. Occult amplifies the energies of Wonder Woman's lasso.
He does not drain them.
Obviously, adding to the power of the lasso is a very different beast than undoing the enchantment that powers the lasso. Judges, unless, based off that scan, you believe that Dr. Occult could simply remove the power of the lasso with a wave of his magic symbol, then the scan has no relevance here. Beatboks claims:
...but we have no scans to back up that nonsense.
By all means, Beatboks, amplify the Soulsword and Stormbreaker! Either way, this match only ends one way.
As for comparing the Soulsword to the Disc:
The Soulsword has a wide range of feats that demonstrate its position as the basic antithesis of magic in Marvel.
(please log in to view the image)
code:"No magic entity or spell can withstand it."
The Soulsword has:
Exorcised forces including the Demon Bear (X-Men psychic/supernatural team wrecker), the sorcerer Gravemoss, Kulan Gath's spell, and Magik's own uberpowerful Darkchylde persona:
IMPORTANT CONTEXT NOTES:
When wielded by the ruler of Limbo, the Soulsword is significantly more powerful - which is why severing the Juggernaut enchantment was so easy for Magik to do. Previously, she wouldn't be able to accomplish that outside of Limbo.
However, in Uncanny X-Men volume 2, Magik absorbed the entirety of Limbo inside her.
She no longer needs to port to Limbo to access its power, she now carries it with her. She doesn't know how to wield all that power, so she's currently being tutored by a Dr. Strange from the past:
It's been shown that, in the future, Magik may become the Sorcerer Supreme for the Galaxy... or something crazy like that.
Now, I want to be really clear here: Magik, with her new power, has not, to my knowledge, done anything beyond the capability of a Low Herald. Further, there isn't a basis for me to extrapolate on all the potential power she might have in order to get a sort of loophole amp for this tourney. I drafted Magik as a low herald because, at this point in time, it's where I believe she belongs.
That said, the only reason I'm going in to all this context is to be upfront about all the little details, as well as to make the following, simple argument:
We know that, in Limbo, Magik's sword is powerful enough to dismiss Juggernaut's enchantment. We know that, outside of Limbo, Magik has done similar feats with similar ease to beings of much less power than Cyttorak (Kulan Gath, Gravemoss, etc), and even accomplished similar highs such as threatening Mephisto, or killing Archenemy.
Therefore, while we may not be able to nail down the average power of the Soulsword - especially now that Illyana carries around Limbo inside of her - we can see that it is a very high average. Dr. Occult, as a caster, simply doesn't measure up. By Beatbok's own admission, Dr. Occult is only powerful when he is able to wield opponent's energy against them - and I am not giving him energy, but rather the pointy end of my sword.
ONE LAST, IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT THE SOULSWORD:
There are some oldschool scans that claim that the Soulsword cannot affect physical beings. The sword has changed, and now this is very far from true:
...so, not only will the Soulsword destroy Beatboks' magic, it will also just obliterate him physically.
Sensors vs. Stealth
...not much to say here. Firstly, these scans didn't work for me:
but, those scans sound totally irrelevant anyways. Basically, if Beatboks is going to argue that Occult can sense precise magical energies in order to track down concealed opponents, then he needs to prove that Occult can do that. Finding a mysterious route in hell doesn't sound like remotely the same thing, and probably has more to do with the fact that Occult is a f*cking supernatural detective, but hey, what do I know anyways.
It's worth noting that, if I need to conceal magical energies, Magik can cast Cyttorak's Spell of Invisibility, but until Beatboks provides some sort of weight for an argument that Invisible Boy's stealth isn't enough, I'm going to assume that this scan alone will suffice:
code:"No breach of our defenses by anything detectable by sight, sound, or any electromagnetic frequency whatsoever"
... so Starman and Comet's powers should be utterly useless.
Smite is shielded by Johnny's shields, which are super versions of Sue Storm's shields (Johnny and Sue swapped powers prior to Johnny's heraldization). Sue's shields have a long history of blocking out mental powers entirely. Johnny's invisibility also apparently blocks out Galactus' own cosmic awareness. I can get further into this if necessary.
Oh since when does Vulcan have 100++ Strength, invulnerability, FTL speed and reactions and TP/TK?? All these things are brought by Captain Comet to my amalgam.
How about unmatched knowledge of the history of an opponent (or anything) instantly, intangibility, teleportation, and the ability to cast magic spells, create illusions, control others through "magical hypnosis ?? all these thing are brought to my amalgam by Occult.
Clearly just two of my character choices bring a LOT more than what choosing Vulcan alone would bring. Starman brings what Vulcan would (though I've never seen Vulcan create an anti matter duplicate of anything), with the added advantages of a lot of what a GL can do, plus gravity manip and apparently control of the earth. Well it is after all "cosmic power" his rod taps
Occult's Disc of the Seven vs. Soulsword 2.0
Judges let me ask you how can it be that a character who struggles against Vampires, serpents and robots
He can shield himself from the Spectre but a robot can "beat him to a bloody pulp".
The answer Judges is simple when he faced those things there was no significant energy to draw on for the disk to use. That is why when he faces Vampires his disk is of no more use than a crucifix.
Also Judges re the "drain of artifact's" and lack of evidence. Last time I checked ALL of the power of Dr Fate came from Artifacts. The Helm of Nabu, the Cloak of Destiny, and the Amulet of Anubis. In the scan I showed of Occult blasting the demon's three he stated that he was using the "combined power of Order .......". The only agent of order present was Dr Fate. If Occult couldn't draw on the power of an artifact then he couldn't be using the power of Order. So I guess there was another feat of a "magical item being drained" that you missed.
Here is where I expect Smuph to say "but all those characters are touching Occult". To which I have a simple question, How do your attacks work without connecting. Even if it required Occult to touch the source of a magic to draw on it then (which my other scans belie) than the manner of attack chosen would still allow Occult to power his own very protection from the magical artifacts used against him.
If All I had was the speed an reaction of Occult, that might be a problem (this is the defense always thrown up when I used Occult as a solo character in tourneys the attack will hit before you raise the disk to repel it). In this instance however I have the reaction of Captain Comet who is loads faster than all your build combined, combined with Occult's "danger sense that even detected the cloaked threat of the Anti-monitor etc
Added to which even without the disk Richard's own body has a "natural resistance to magic"
So Occult's own body is resistant to the magical aspects of these artifacts. The bullet plucked from Superman in Black Reign was slowly killing him even though it struck in a non vital spot (his shoulder). Yet for Occult it was a minor annoyance. Oh I guess this is where we hear all about Superman's "weakness" to magic, but his weakness doesn't make him more vulnerable to magic than others he just doesn't have a defense any better than anyone else. Occult on the other hand does.
Judges I don't believe I said anywhere that Occult depowers anything, only that his disk can be powered by any magic around. There is simply no other way most of his feats against high end opponents are possible when you take into consideration his showings against the more mundane. His disk has always only ever been a stalemating factor against superior forces, and has as yet failed to match any high end magic it has faced. Smurph stated that the disk was not in the league of the soul Sword and to combat that fact has simply offered feats in the EXACT same league of those I've shown for the disk.
So scratch the magical significance of the artifacts that Smurph's build wields. they are completely insignificant. That brings us down to the physical damage they can do.
Well they didn't work for me either, and having just tried to reload them it appears the address is too long as when i preview half the address isn't in the URL. So I'll try a different link
Dr fate couldn't detect a way out. Yet the previous Fate when not much more experienced than this one at the time of Reign in hell could watch every high end magic user, only the Phantom Stranger was aware of it.
Sargon Jnr couldn't find a way out. Yet his Grand Father was able to be completely aware of every action undertaken by Kullak even though that powerful entity could hide his actions from the Spectre. Jnr had a MORE direct link to the jewel because he embedded it in his forehead.
Occult pretty much states (more than once) that all he has to do is want it badly enough and he can find anything.
The way he managed to "find that mysterious way through hell" was that he detected the magic being done on earth by Jason Blood and a few others http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...8+-+page+21.jpg
A concealment spell that prevented anyone from finding a way out of hell couldn't stop Occult from detecting a magical power far and away below the power of your two artifacts.
FACT PROVEN. Can't break magic
you may have missed http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...l+sorceries.jpg
And that was teh same Enchantress who a couple of issues before wielded all magic users power to amp Billy Batson
First some quick rebuttals re: Occult's magic. After, I'm going to explain why speed is a nonissue, and I'm going to expand on Johnny's Cosmic Awareness, including why its critical role in undoing Beatboks:
The Quack Occult
Beatboks doesn't present any new evidence for Dr. Occult, substituting scans with a lot of wishful thinking.
Points to takeaway:
Beatboks argues that Dr. Occult would be slain by Buffy. Again, the first link doesn't work, but I think we understand that Occult < Vampires.
Not all parts of an explosion hold the same power. Experiencing an explosion/fall upon entering hell is different than being in the middle of the blast zone (ie, Lobo's prison).
These scans are, as before, totally irrelevant to Beatboks' defense. BB needs to prove that Occult can tap into the power of an opponents' magic object and use it against them -- draw out energies that are stored, and unwilling to be tapped into.
Showing Dr. Occult shielding himself from an explosion, and arguing that he is being powered by the energies of the explosion -- manipulating those energies for his own purpose is obviously different.
As I said before, Occult manipulating a magic blast that's targeted at him is a very different beast to, say, drawing the energy out Mjolnir (or, obviously, Stormbreaker) as it hurtles towards his head.
Could Occult stop Diana's bracelets from being invulnerable, or use the lasso's power against Diana?
To beat this nail down further: unlike Diana's lasso (which was given to her, and powered, by the gods), the Soulsword is actually a part of Magik's soul, and powered by her, the Hell Lord of Limbo. Beatboks has a high bar of evidence to reach to prove that Occult can use the sword/its energies against her.
Once again, we just have a feat of Occult manipulating ambient magical energy.
Thus far, Beatboks has been putting forward an argument that Dr. Occult + FTL speed poses a significant threat to Smite. We've seen that Occult's feats are less than they're built up to be, now let's take a look at the speed edge...
Controlling The Pace
First, let's compare speed. Then, let's chat about how it doesn't matter anyways.
Those panels involve BRB keeping pace with Surfer while fighting alongside Skuttlebutt, BRB's interstellar ship... Skuttlebutt can travel quickly between planets, and is operating at max speed (as the dialogue indicates).
Let's be conservative and estimate that the ship is traveling at 2x light speed. 2x light speed is the tourney cap - even if Comet's hyperbole really means he can move near-Silver Age flash speeds, it is irrelevant because we are capped at the same speeds.
As I was saying though, speed's not going to make the difference in this match:
Portals are instant, and Magik can make many of them if need be. Captain Comet and Beta Ray Bill may be capped at the same fighting speed, but Smite's method of attack is infinitely faster.
Stealth - unless Beatboks can back up the lofty goal of finding away around Johnny's stealth, then speed doesn't enter the discussion: Dr. Cosmos will only know Smite's location when he feels a blade through his abdomen.
Cosmic Awareness - Thanks to Johnny's universal awareness, Smite will always know exactly where his prey is, negating any advantage in travel speed. It's a simple matter of knowing where everything is, and being able to instantly reach that space (see 'Portals are instant').
This brings me to my last post point:
Cosmic Awareness: What Dr. Occult wished he could access
Stepping outside time is time manipulation, whether or not you can affect the past. Time travel, including traveling outside time, has always been squarely within a forum understanding of time manip.
Judges, I'll leave this up to you. It doesn't ultimately change Dr. Cosmos' fate, but an obvious rule breach is an obvious rule breach.
No, friend. That honour goes to Johnny Storm, the Invisible Boy:
code:"You needed someone to recognize the invisible--so you've got me doing that on the ultimate level!
I have a whole new way to see the universe!
It's like.. it's like... 'Cosmic Sight'
It just sort of automatically appears to me!
Seeing all things as the actually are"
You cannot hide from Johnny Storm, and you cannot escape Magik.
Johnny's automatic understanding and awareness of both the physical, energy, and other properties of his environment and opponents guarantees that Smite will know exactly how to dismantle Dr. Cosmos' defense and person.
POST # 3
It’s interesting that Smurph says I’ve offered no new evidence because his claims are contrary to the evidence I’ve offered.
He says I’ve supplied no proof that Occult can undo magic (only “amplify” I believe were his words), yet I clearly show him smashing Enchantresses spells and stating on panel that his disk “undoes ALL sorceries”
He states that I’ve supplied no evidence of Occult “drawing on the power of magical artefacts”, yet I have shown he clearly state that he uses the power of order (from Dr Fate) which comes from artefacts.
I wasn’t aware it was “wishful thinking” when it’s actually stated on panel in the scans provided.
This part made me smile, Smurph is almost giving it to me. He’s right, unfortunately it’s not how he believes. You See Occult was equal distance from the blast as Lobo’s prison. The blast was right on top of Occult’s head, the area of hell coming down on his head was the area of the prison. Occult wasn’t “entering hell” at that point he’d been travelling though hell for quite a while (3 issues). You’ll notice in the scan Occult is almost at the top of a hole, out of which we have this http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...?sort=3&o=0
The fight of Etrigan and BD.
In the first scan with Occult his shield protects from the blast and some small shrapnel. The second scan of the shield has the entire area collapsing on his head. Here is the next page of the BD Etrigan fight http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...?sort=3&o=0
That figure walking out of the explosion, is Lobo.
Compare that to http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...?sort=3&o=0
When he fights werewolves he needs a gun with silver bullets, when he fights Vampires (which he beats) his disk is only like a crucifix. When he fights robots made from 1940’s tech (with likely a 12 volt battery) no force field capability. But apparently this doesn’t prove that he is powered by the energy or magic that is near him??
(Finally worked out where I go wrong with scans. The titles of them in my image folders are too long on many. So when I upload to image providers it makes the address too long for the site)
But that isn’t what I’ve shown. I’ve shown that a man who can’t cast shields at all when facing things without energy can cast shields as powerful as what ever energy is brought against him. If he doesn’t get the energy from them how is that possible?? Never mind the fact that it’s stated on panel that his disk absorbs and redirects natural and supernatural energy. Detection/ cloaking
So the best proof Smurph has provided is concealing from Galactus. As I’ve already Said Sargon Snr could using the ruby of life (his power artefact) sense what was hidden from both Corrigan Spectre and Classic fate http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...?sort=3&o=0
At the start of Reign in Hell Zatanna went to Sargon Jnr to help them find a way into hell because of this (and he did) http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...e%2020.jpg.html
concealing from Galactus = to concealing from Spectre. Sargon can break such concealments and Occult can break those Sargon can’t.
Now as for “4 pages and who-knows-how-long to find a path through Hell’ The thing that Occult tracked was the energy of Jason Blood’s magic after he’d been cut off from Etrigan (several issues ago) on another dimensional plane.
Soulsword power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jason blood
On the same battlefield a few hundred meters at best <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< another dimesnion
….THE SHUT OUT….[/B]
Let’s assume for a moment that I actually can’t detect Smite. Occult’s “lot to know things” pretty much matches the Cosmic knowledge ( it’s really just my supposition that he gets this through his step out of time for which the only showings are those I gave, he’s normally just depicted knowing stuff). So I’m aware of who and what I’m facing.
So I can’t find Smite, Oh what will I do. Well I have vastly greater reactions so my response will be before Smite has thrown Stormbreaker and it will be this.
Using the star rod I create a large area of both anti gravity and repulsive magnetic force around myself (the star rod was originally called the gravity rod). http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...sort=3&o=53 http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...?sort=3&o=0 http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...ravity.jpg.html
I further use Comet’s TK to mentally push away in all directions http://s158.photobucket.com/user/DC...-46-22.jpg.html
He can TK something So forcefully that Lobo, the guy with the feat of pulling stellar mass from the sky struggled to stop it from impaling him (still cut though) http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...Synn_1.jpg.html
or TK shield himself and others from Omynar Synn
then while becoming intangible using Occult intangibility while I ash out with a mental energy unidirectional blast that will attack you anywhere http://s158.photobucket.com/user/DC...-46-22.jpg.html
As a final stance if this doesn’t seem to lay my opponent low I simply start filling the area with anti matter http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...matter.jpg.html
1. I have a means of defense for any type of attack Smurph can mount.
2. Occult’s “lot to know things matches the Cosmic Knowledge (more showings can prove) so I will know instantly if what I have thought to do has a problem.
3. My speed/reaction means that I can change from what ever attack or defence I was going to mount before Smurph has any chance to make anything stick. But hey, my speed is irrelevant right?? I mean the fact that I can mount szerveral of these attacks/defences before Stormbreaker is even left your hand means nothing.
4. My durability http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...0Supes.jpg.html means I can tank the physical attack of Stormbreaker striking me even if the defence I can mount doesn’t send it straight back at my adversary.
5. My anti gravity field means that when Smite ports in range to use the Sword he’ll be flying away before he can do a damn thing with it even without the TK defense pushing him (and when I’m not in defence mode, I’ll be intangible anyway)
6. The Shields I can create with the Disk of the 7 have ample proof of protecting me from Smite as they have from far greater threats on a much higher level.
7. The antimatter I can create (which was done in battle) can be slowly spread to fill the coliseum except in my immediate vicinity ensuring total victory
But hey all I did with my three picks was draft Vulcan, that I could have gotten with one game over as the battlefield is covered in Smite’s blood
This time I wrote in Word so I could repost after previewing. I have tested every link in preview with no issues so Hope there is no problems.
Saw you post as soon as I posted so editing this in.
On the speed, just want to say. The scan says the ship is slowing down. Nothing what so ever to indicate faster than light at all. Nice try though. I guess teh speed was important after all heh ;D
Last edited by beatboks on Nov 20th, 2015 at 01:42 AM
POST # 4 SPEED
First I said reaction speed not travel speed. I’ve shown feats of Comet reacting to a Flash level character. Not to mention it was a TK attack that had to move something else. I don’t doubt that Bill can travel at FTL speed much the same way Thor can (Hammer throw) but neither react at those speeds.
Now let’s look at your scan.
1. Bill is clearly inside the event of Skuttlebutt’s forcefield. In effect he’s being carried by the ships own velocity.
2. The ship is moving away from Surfer . If your right about the ship travelling faster than light there is relativity involved. That is to say if I’m travelling light speed away from soeething (as Skuttlbut was) and that something is travelling at 1.5 times light speed relative to me it’s at half my light speed. That’s why when we enter a slower speed limit as drivers after driving in higher speed zones for some time everything appears to be slow)
3. As I stated it states on panel “slowing down to failure state”
4. How is this a good reaction feat for Bill?? I mean he gets one hit on Surfers board and then can’t seem to dodge or avoid any of Surfers attacks.
Other evidence I’ve seen to attempt to suggest that BRB has high speed reactions over the years are things like this http://s673.photobucket.com/user/ga...speed2.jpg.html http://s673.photobucket.com/user/ga...speed3.jpg.html
I’ve seen this offered for FTL perception and reactions. Yet in it BRB states “Beyond that …… Your guess is as good as mine” This clearly indicates that while he could perceive it he couldn’t perceive it all. In short, not even Light speed perceptions. Definitely not FTL perceptions, or reactions.
If the ship IS travelling at 2x Light speed, it makes that feat even worse for BRB. It means that even with the relativity advatage of 2x light speed = 0 SS could still tag him unstopped/ blocked/dodged.
Really here is the definition from two separte sources
The fact that Occult can’t “alter/adapt/change” the past or in anyway ‘Influence/move/manage/handle” it is pretty much as contrary to the definition of manipulate as you can get. You can try calling it something that it isn’t but the actual definition of the word counters that. Show me any character in fiction other than Occult who can travel time and can’t actually involve themselves or affect it??
Phantom Stranger is known to be nigh Omniscient. He “sees all things as they “ARE” (as in the right now) and yet Occult has a greater perspective than him http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...?sort=3&o=0
The Trenchcoat brigade had just met the man and yet occult knew everything about him, more so than even the stranger who is aware of the darkness/evil/danger every being is/will face.
Your feats don’t show any greater than I have shown with Occult simply knowing all about who he has just met.
I find it interesting however that you claimed only a few posts ago that because Occult took a few pages to find the equivalent of a 12v battery ( the comparitive power of Jason Blood detatched from Etrigan compared to the Soul sword – being a power station) on the other side of the continent (the comparison of being in another plan of existence as opposed to within a battlefield the size of the Colesium) that it wasn’t much a detection feat. Then you offer up for invisible boy three pages for his cosmic knowledge to know the ins and outs of a freaking super nova feet from him ( the power of galen compared to the soul sword)
Last time I checked in the MU power cosmic was considered natural energy. Under the stipulations of how Occult’s disk works according to his Who’s Who entry and the files shown on him in Day of Judgement (plus showings) that would mean all the assaults you just showed would simply be deflected back at you. Unless that is you can show me a power attack that is Superior to that of the Spectre during Day of Judgement.
Your operating on a no limits fallacy, while I have shown limits of the ability of the disk to return attacks and your “smite” simply doesn’t make the cut.
There are a few scenarios that can play here.
1. My detection works just as I said and I simply redirect all the attacks of Smite straight back at him. The fact that occult has been able to sense much lower magical sources of energy than my opponent possesses. Sense them from vastly further away and through concealments that are at the very least equal if not Superior ( since Sargon can detect things hidden from even Spectre and Occult can detect what Sargon cannot) should be proof enough of that.
2. Occult can’t sense my opponent and with my faster REACTIONS I go defensive and enact the second attack plan before his takes effect. A plan that has me go slightly on the defensive teleporting around the battlefield creating pockets of anti matter in my wake , and anti gravity and reverse polarity magnetics (making wielding weapons with metal against me pretty hard)
3. Smite actually connects with stormbreaker before I react which because of my Durability that can take repeated blows from Superman, go toe to toe with Lobo (who can pull stellar mass from the sky) still means I react and go intangible and port etc etc long before the soul sword ever get’s used against me.
4. Smite brings up the power cosmic as he did in the scans in Smurph’s last post and it get’s turned back on him.
There is literally no scenario where Smite takes the win.
... you showed Captain Comet lift some grass to stop Johnny Quick.
Not exactly a sustained showing of super reflexes, and entirely to do with telekinesis. You are not going to be able to telekinetically hold off Beta Ray Bill (more on this in a moment), so an actual showing of moving at super speed around opponents would be helpful.
code:Bill: "To that imperiled world, Skuttlebutt. Make haste. No matter what, do not halt."
Skuttlebutt: Understood, sir. Slowing down a failure state
Skuttlebutt is not saying that it is "slowing down to failure state", as you claim. Skuttlebutt identifies that to slow down would be to fail. "Failure state", in this case, refers to computer logic of success states and failure states for determining outcome.
As for the relativity argument, I'm comfortable dismissing that as "comic books". Bill is flying beside a ship at super speed, fighting a character with documented super speed, and yet readers will selectively apply physics to try and weaken the feat. It is what it is.
Time Travel = Time Manipulation
Honestly, I don't see this step-outside-time strategy as having a lot of value for Beatboks, but I do believe in rules being applied broadly and fairly, so to that end:
I don't feel like I should need to spell this out, but, as comic nerds, we don't need to use the broadest definition of 'manipulation' to interpret our rules.
A conventional understanding of comics and tourneys interprets 'time manipulation' as covering any ability to alter time's "regular flow" in comics, for one person, a limited area, or in a broader sense. This includes time travel.
Stepping outside time, even just to passively observe, is time travel. If you, Beatboks, wanted to argue that this specific application of time travel should be allowed, then you should have brought it up in the discussion thread, before this match started.
Further, I'm sure that 'stepping outside time' also counts as self-BFR, and is banned/self defeating.
This is absurd.
Basically, Beatboks wants to backpeddle and use his vaunted "lot to know things" (see: time travel, illegal) to argue that, retroactively, he has the benefit of knowing my strategy, and counter-strategizing.
He undermines this tactic even as he introduces it:
This, judges, is the point of no return for Beatboks.
He has hastily thrown together a plan to use wide-sweeping energy attacks to try and keep me away, and in doing so, remains prey to my three key advantages:
Advantage One: Stepping Discs
So basically Beatboks is using his opening moves to start launching energy attacks to push me away.
So... Smite ports right beside him and impales him. Notably, the soul sword can tag intangible objects (Kitty Pryde, enchantments, anything magical), so Dr. Cosmos is wasting valuable time using Occult's intangibility.
You can't keep Magik away.
Advantage Two: Stealth
Specifically, not only did I stealth my character, I also stealthed Stormbreaker.
Beatboks has conceded that Dr. Cosmos will need to plan around Smite's invisibility - so we can reasonably extend that concession to the FTL hammer that is homing in on Cosmos' stomach.
Remember, it was stealthed before being thrown:
So, the match is on track:
1) Smite teleports beside Cosmos and impales him via soul sword
2) Cosmos doesn't detect Stormbreaker, loses his torso
which brings me to...
Advantage Three: Motherf*cking Stormbreaker
Beatboks intends to repel Stormbreaker with energy attacks..
If you would like to contend that you have superior energy output to Stardust, a high herald, feel free to try and prove it. Despite Dr. Cosmos being a poor man's Vulcan, there's no doubt that Beta Ray Bill has the best energy soak in this tournament, thanks to his hax hammer and godly durability.
I suggest you read my scans again. Occult doesn’t and never has “time travelled’ Superman even asks him if he took them to the past and he says no. They just stepped off to the side of time, makes it easier to see the past. IF he travelled to the past then he would be physically there and able to affect it, he can’t.
What Occult does is no more than is Done by Dr Straqnge with the eye of Agmotto, Dr Fate with the orb of Nabu or based on your own scans what Invisible boy does with cosmic knowledge.
It’s not time travel when it’s stated on panel in the very scans in question that they haven’t “travelled to the time” or as you yourself put it
Since Occult can’t “alter time’s regular flow, doesn’t apply. It’s right there on panel in the scan I posted in Occult’s answer to Superman, his statement to Timothy Hunter.
Also covered in the OP. BFR is allowed under the rules for 1 second. Since once one has “stepped outside of time” (which could be, and IS as simple as stepping onto the astral plane a “timeless dimension” where every single bio, description of Occult’s powers describes as his means of teleportation/ dimensional travel as well as how he becomes intangible) they return to the exact instant they left.
As I stated it is simply depicted as Occult knowing more than others instantly
Here for example http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/b...0knows.jpg.html
He shows that he has an awareness of things even the Phantom Stranger and Mister E (who sees ALL futures) don’t.
What concession have I made judges. Throughout the last post I continued to debate and show the greater perceptions of of Occult over those that Smurph has shown his character “conceal from” To this stage his greatest concealment feat is hiding from Galan. I have shown several instances of Occult perceiving things hidden from Phantom Stranger (who is equal if not above Galen in perceptions). I have shown Occult detect things that even those who can detect what Spectre and classic Fate cannot.
Judges I said “assume” or in other words suppose to be the case without proof. Which is basically what it is. Smurph hasn’t proven that he can hide from me. His greatest feat of concealment shown is below the level of perceptions I have shown.
There really isn’t much need to cover the rest of this but for the sake of a completely rounded argument.
1. Occult’s intangibility isn’t like Kitty’s or anyone else He achieves it by the astral plane. He doesn’t phase.
2. None of those mentioned have “natural resistance to magic” shown on panel that magical weapons that grain the very life force from beings are a minor annoyance.
1. Does this stealth somehow get around a danger sense that has always shown occult the direction of danger even when those dangers were (so very rarely ) beyond his ability to perceive?
2. Does this in any way make Stormbreaker strike with greater force??
Judges Occult using his disk has put up shields as powerful as what ever magic energy is in his vicinity. In this battle my opponent has supplied plenty of power for this to occur.
Comet has also TP shielded himself from even the likes of Ominar Synnn, a character vastly beyond my opponent’s build.
Comet has further tanked blows from Superman, and Lobo. The same Lobo who can pull stellar mass from the sky http://static.comicvine.com/uploads.../3350121-11.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads.../3350122-12.jpg
Remind me again what BRB’s best strength feat is?? Ohh that’s right planet busting
Judges planet busting <<<<<<<< pulling stellar mass down, and Lobo couldn’t physically stop a spike from impaling him under Comet’s TK. Let alone put Comet down in a physical fight
and yet stellar mass pulling feats vastly greater couldn’t so I guess that solves that once and for all.
Judges almost every shield I have depicted has been a completely encasing one. Why would I if I had no knowledge (PRETTY BIG IF) of where an attack is coming from shield in only one way.
Judges let’s look at what Smurph is proposing
1. Smite somehow conceals himself from Cosmos even though his best concealment feats shown are only a match for what those characters who Occult has shown to out perceive.
2. He also manages to somehow conceal two vastly powerful magical talismans from a being who possesses a talisman that can detect vastly weaker (by several magnitudes of order) magical energy through seemingly better concealments than the feats offered
3. Stombreaker somehow breaches shields that are powered not just by the magic that is within storm breaker but also that within the soul sword as well as whatever ambient magic is around.
4. It them ALSO breaches the shield of the star rod that have held up to pre COIE Ultraman ( someone beyond “planet busting” also)
5. Not to mention the telekinetic shields that have protected several from Ominar Synn, taken over the power of the most powerful Green lanterns in the known universe and used it against them, and forced a spike to impale the man who can pull stellar mass from the sky while he’s fighting against it.
6. Then finally it actually strikes the body of Captain Comet who has taken blows from Superman and Lobo with very little effect. A body I might add that because it’s merged with Occult has a “natural resistance to magic”.
7. It’s supposed to do all that and do damage (which courtesy of the shown feats of mind over matter and self healing I can heal from almost instantly) that would somehow prevent Cosmos avoiding another attack???
8. Then Judges we have smite allegedly porting to me and impaling me with a sword also magical against and anti-magic talisman that based on feats is easily it’s equal into a body that has magical resistance and is capable of healing pretty quick
Judges to tie it all together in a neat little bow, we’re expected to believe that a character with Cosmic knowledge who knows everything about my character would commit to such a folly with such dedication when he should be aware it has no chance of success.
Congrats to both. Good luck to Smurph in the next round. Boks, Comet's a beast. Nice find there. We all knew his power set, but I don't think I realized the extent of his versatility and power. Drawing that kind of versatility out of obscure picks is a strength of yours; you got my vote in a match in the last tourney when you did the same (Animal Man + Arion, iirc). Tighter plans with less parts prone to interpretation will put you up with anyone in these things. Smurph, not much to say. Nice amalgam. Well-rounded, powerful, and to the point.