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High-Herald Title Fight: leonidas vs "Id"
Started by: Galan007

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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

Gender: Male
Location:

High-Herald Title Fight: leonidas vs "Id"

This is a battlezone between leonidas and Id for the KMC High-Herald belt.


Rules:
1. 1 opening post, and 3 post limit.

2. No time manipulation.

3. No insta-kill tactics such as teleporting into solid objects. Even if an attack isn’t instantaneous, any attack that could, as a matter of its nature, not be defended against is considered this.

3. Characters will not have knowledge of who they are fighting pre-fight. In battle, they will only be able to know things if the two characters already knew each other.

4. Non-offensive matter manipulation is allowed.

5. No duplication.

6. No power copying in any way.

7. Only experience carries from previous fights, and only information you could have reasonably discovered in the fight is learned.

8. No immortal characters. Characters should be able to be defeated by reasonably accessible means. Healing factors strong enough to blur the line with this are also banned.

9. While battlefields will change, it is assumed that nobody can leave the whole of the battlefield by any means. This also means no BFR or self-BFR. If you fly too far, you hit an impenetrable wall.

10. No reality warping.

11. Rules may be changed if certain strategies become an obvious problem.

12. Matches last 14 days.

13. ( Prep) No prep.

leonidas: Shaman X-Man
Id: Plutonian
Location: Earth - Roman Colosseum
Starting Point: 120 yards from each other.
Host: Galan007
Judges: LordofBrooklyn, DarkSaint85, Smurph, Prof. T.C McAbe, Decter


__________________


Old Post Nov 17th, 2015 08:08 PM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

Gender: Male
Location:

leonidas: Opening Post


quote:

leonidas wrote on Nov 16th, 2015 04:53 PM:
OPENING POST

so, a clutch at the crown, a grab at the gold, a battle royale of biblical proportions between 2 awe-inspiring adversaries!!1!

should be funsies. smile before moving along, a quick thanks to galan and the judges, and to id for entertaining this match up. thumb up

on to bizznazzz: i'll be repping the underdog in this titanic tussle, the little man: NATE GREY. everyone is at least somewhat familiar with him i assume: uber psi, both tk and tp. but he goes a little deeper than that even. due to the levels of his power, he is also an energy and matter manipulator of the highest order, able to command fundamental forces of nature like time and gravity. i will likely show all of that as this match progresses. as far as my opening strategy goes however, i'll be keeping it fairly simple and straight-forward...

BATTLE STRATEGY:

since there is zero prep time (can't even raise a shield afaik) and we have absolutely no knowledge of each other, everything happens once we hit the field.

ANSWER TO SPEED

it might seem at first this would be a disadvantage to me because of tony's crazy speed, but recall, nate sees the world differently from others, and at a VASTLY different rate. time manip is banned in this, but that doesn't mean his PERCEPTION of the passage of time is neutered, and we all know he can break time down into the very smallest of increments:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...kxmen003015.jpg

what that means is that despite tony's speed, i'll have AMPLE time to see what he is doing, and by extension, react to a blitz of any kind. also note, he sees the world in more than 300 ways! lol that's just cool.... factor in the fact that my mastery of time also allows for PRECOGNITION:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...64-precog+1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...66-precog+2.jpg

(can repost if judges can't read dialogue--just pm me.) there is also the PLANCK LENGTH SCAN i showed above that visually SHOWS nate seeing the future but it's the mimic scan that is really telling. in it, mimic actually knew EXACTLY what was going to happen to omega as he absorbed nate's power, showing his precog IS very specific and can be used to determine IMMEDIATE futures.

so, not only will i be able to REACT to his speed, i'd actually be able to PREDICT his assault. it's also important to note that nate is not, BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, slow himself:

http://imgur.com/uZyuAUf

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...24704-t6rjo.jpg

his reaction and travel speed is actually very uber, even independent of his shaman-levels of perception.

STAGE 2

with my perceptual advantage MORE than compensating for his physical speed advantage, i will instantly teleport as far from him as i can, and cloak myself from his senses:

http://imgur.com/3VH2KTu

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...-teleport+1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...96page03ima.jpg

here he very impressively cloaks himself from EXODUS's senses:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...an014p114je.jpg

there are others, but hiding from exodus is extremely impressive. he can also port between realities with no effort.

judges and dear readers, please be aware of the following: tony has absolutely zero DEFINITIVE showings that would indicate he might either shield himself from my own tp (especially given my power level) or that he could find me when i psionically cloak myself from him. i'm unlike anything tony has ever had to face. smile

INTERLUDE

id will clearly try convincing you otherwise. he'll say tony is a psionic being, that he DOES have defenses (maybe natural defenses) against me. ultimately, is it possible? i dunno, maybe? tony IS a beast. there may be some implications that he COULD answer my ability in some way, but for those who don't know, tony was still LEARNING to use his new, evolved powers that he exhibited at the end of the series. in fact, he was STILL evolving. and even if there WERE some possibility he could counter my powers somehow, it's NOT possible to make the case that he would master that ability to the degree necessary to compete with someone of nate's level and experience. we're talking about the most powerful psi-based character in marvel who is not phoenix-powered. it's also one of the drawbacks of someone with relatively ltd appearances....

END INTERLUDE:

once i port and am shielded from him, i can officially get to work. first thing: i touch his mind and look through his memories:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...x-men+2+022.jpg

once i touch his mind though, i will also know something else: i'll know if i could simply crush it, or erase it, or simply erase HIM. here he scowers millions of minds, finds the tp's he's looking for and simply...kills them.

http://imgur.com/4hoPo28

if i feel i can do that (ie, he has no provable defenses against it), or crush his mind, the fight ends in that instant. over. done, finished. and i would know. there is likely no proof i COULDN'T kill him that way, but in case anyone feels that can't be guaranteed, seeing his memories are enough to get me the win. i will explain. smile before i do though, proof that tony's mind CAN be read. here is a low level tp reading his mind:

http://imgur.com/HNjql6X

now, id may say that didn't happen, that it was actually MODEUS's mind burrows (the mind reader) read, not tony's. but that isn't true--certainly not definitively. what IS definitive is that it wasn't tony's thoughts that drove him to kill himself. but there is absolutely nothing (aside from misinterpretation) to indicate that burrows did NOT read tony's mind...:

http://imgur.com/kHOJWl0

so, assuming i don't just crush his mind and turn him into a vegetable, making him incapable of fighting, i start with some illusions, while simultaneously reading his mind. these illusions were used on QABIRI--a hyper-evolved, planet-wrecker:

http://imgur.com/dSOS8AX

http://imgur.com/BV0n1px

http://imgur.com/PoIs21J

http://imgur.com/1SEzd7Z

clearly not just your 'normal, everyday' illusions.... anyway, touching his mind will eliminate the disadvantage of not knowing each other for me because once i touch his mind (cloaked from him, don't forget) i learn everything there is to know about him in an instant (shown above).

but.....(the scan of him having his mind read above aside) id may tell you this is impossible because plutonian himself is a telepath. that, however, is a bit of an iffy statement at best. while it's true tony REFERS to himself as a telepath, (and his powers are psionically based) his form of tp is not the normal form tp takes.

http://imgur.com/xwKU3MM

"NOT MIND READING". he can use his vision powers to look into a brain and SEE memories, but that's a far cry from what nate is able to do--and he can't do THAT because he can't find me. so, no real proof tony could keep me out, annndddd, nate can make short work of powerful tp's anyway, if he needed to (i showed a scan of him finding and KILLING a bunch of tp's above. more to come if needed...).

bottom line: once i have touched his mind and have his memories, i simply psychosomatically have him relive his defeat at the hands of his TRUE parents:

http://imgur.com/d4FzDRH

http://imgur.com/XN9OBWW

in that instance, he was saved by qubit... but leo, wtf? who cares if he remembers his loss?? well, this is what happened to venom when HE was forced to recall his memory:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...men_03_0006.jpg

nate forced him to actually RELIVE and REEXPERIENCE the loss, complete with ALL PHSIOLOGICAL RESPONSES TO THE LOSS. it's a ridiculously powerful yet simple and effective attack. in essence, tony will completely believe he is stuck, freezing, alone, at the end of time, FOREVER. iow--he's finished. big grin

QUICK RECAP:

using my own speed and, more importantly, PERCEPTUAL SPEED to answer tony's speed, i teleport, and cloak myself from him. i then cast illusions to distract him while i touch his mind and uncover his history and vulnerabilities. if i don't outright CRUSH his mind, i use the memories of his defeat by his parents and have him completely relive that experience psychosomatically, thus ending him and his reign as high herald champ.


__________________


Old Post Nov 17th, 2015 08:10 PM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

Gender: Male
Location:

"Id": Opening Post


quote:

"Id" wrote on Nov 17th, 2015 11:50 AM:
Plutonian

(please log in to view the image)


Hey how about a brief intro, so the judges may have some insight of who Plutonian is before the match begins.

Who is Plutonian? Plutonian is the main character in the series Irremediable, and makes brief cameos in Incorruptible from BOOM! Studios. He is a cosmic alien, from a race known as Eleos, given human form by a woman desiring to have a child for herself. As such his powers are those of a Superman Clone, with Psionic abilities to boot.


The birth of Plutonian
http://i.imgur.com/aJ2qUZ3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TK4QsJU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TvEpyY2.jpg

The Government label his known Super Powers, and questions his limits, unknown abilities, and origin.
http://i.imgur.com/YZoEGcY.jpg

Modeus reveals to Qubit the true nature of Plutonian powers, stating that he has near endless application to his Psionic Powers.
http://i.imgur.com/Fb8DZ4I.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9yZaDhw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ny10sB2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uxJkR3e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jSMnRHv.jpg



My Strategy
What do I anticipate from Leo use of X-Man? Raise Shields, Armor Up!, Some Mental Whammy, and dig in with some exotics, which is fine. In this match Ill play up my strengths.
Tony is FASTER.
Tony is STRONGER.
Tony is more INVULNERABLE.
Tony has greater Endurance.
Tony commands FORCES greater than Nate.


So on to my strat . At the start of the battle Tony will perform his "Inertial Negation" on X-Man. This creates a momentary pause, and an opening for Tony to move in and maul down X-Man, using a combination of his superior speed, physical prowess, and gravity-dark matter powers he learned/gained from Bette, Tony will finish Nate off by slamming a Black Hole through his muthaphucking chest.


Inertial Negation - Tony negates moons rotation.
http://i.imgur.com/s0BE0hY.jpg

Pico Second Reaction -Tony notices a device broadcasting a picosecond long battle report, and outraces the signal.
http://i.imgur.com/HHn80S4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g7x9TXD.jpg

Trans-Luminal Speed - Tony outraces a radio broadcast before the satellite picks up the feed.
http://i.imgur.com/vZ4xa77.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xMa5pSJ.jpg

Physical Prowess - Tony lays down a foundation of raw diamond, and proceeds to sink Singapore.
http://i.imgur.com/0ixedyk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DlezLn3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0CMO8Xr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zwIfSte.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MMiMtc0.jpg

Tony goes on to learn how Bette-Modeus was able to use gravity-dark matter to such grand scale. With that new found knowledge, Tony creates a black hole.
http://i.imgur.com/CDbrfpa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PgImvjb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zygC8c4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JAZyHUS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BYkV6UG.jpg



*Some of the code in your OP wasn't quotable, so I had to modify it accordingly.


__________________


Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 17th, 2015 at 08:32 PM

Old Post Nov 17th, 2015 08:18 PM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

Gender: Male
Location:

*Match concludes December 1, 2015 @ 1:18pm (MST)



Good luck to both contestants. thumb up


__________________


Last edited by Galan007 on Nov 17th, 2015 at 08:26 PM

Old Post Nov 17th, 2015 08:20 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

POST UNO

so, let's take a look at what there is to see, da?

id's plan:

quote:
At the start of the battle Tony will perform his "Inertial Negation" on X-Man. This creates a momentary pause, and an opening for Tony to move in and maul down X-Man, using a combination of his superior speed, physical prowess, and gravity-dark matter powers he learned/gained from Bette, Tony will finish Nate off by slamming a Black Hole through his muthaphucking chest


wellllll.... i think not. big grin

there are more than a few problems with this particular approach. the first one revolves around id's initial assumption that i would simply stand in front of him and trust my shields/armor. do you KNOW how strong tony is?? damn. my shields ARE strong. coupled with the armor, i've little doubt i could resist a direct pummeling--at least for long enough to marshal together a stronger defense.

but.... i didn't do that. using my own perceptual abilities i vanish in the first instant of the battle via teleport, then i go ahead and cloak myself as previously shown. at this point, he is lost. for all his hyper PHYSICAL senses, i'm not cloaked PHYSICALLY. and he has nothing in his history that would indicate he could penetrate my PSI CLOAK.

in fact, there are indications that the exact OPPOSITE is likely true:

http://i.imgur.com/CDbrfpa.jpg

"I CAN'T REACH INTO YOUR HEAD TELEPATHICALLY...."

that can be interpreted in a couple ways: either he can't because qubit has shielded himself with some sort of tech inhibitor, or he can't because he literally has no tp powers. whichever way you see it, it is NOT good for id. no if he can't overcome qubit's tp inhibitor (qubit would have precious little experience with uber psi characters, so really, how great could his inhibitor be assumed to be? all it had to block was some no-named psi named burrows) he would have, LITERALLY, a 0.0% chance to get into my omega level mind.

and of course, if he HAS no tp, well, he's REALLY screwed....

as for OTHER problems with his plan:

(1) he wants to use INERTIAL DAMPENING.

PROBLEM? based on the scan, it would appear that he needs to be in contact to rob something of its inertia. even if i WAS standing in front of him, he couldn't make contact through my shields, and a tk shield wouldn't necessarily have inertia as it is a non-physical construct.... to assume he could use this power at a distance would be a faulty assumption.

(2) he wants to MAUL ME:

PROBLEM? a neat idea, except for the tiny issue that i'm not there and he can't find me....

(3) he wants to SLAM A MUTHAPHUCKING BLACK HOLE THROUGH MY CHEST!

PROBLEM? while i love the enthusiasm, i'm again, not there and he can't find me. there's also the fact that QUBIT knew how to work with bette's powers to make a black hole, not tony.... and he needed bette's BULLET to create one, AND he even had to make adjustments to it to ALLOW it to take the form of a black hole. ALL of that was only possible because of QUBIT. there is not even CLOSE to enough proof to suppose tony, on his own, could just whip up a black hole....

in effect, all of tony's superior physical and energy attacks are rendered useless in this match. even making an attempt to use his new QUANTUM BASED ABILITY would be useless as he has no idea where i am. instead, he expends all his powers on uber-level illusions while i pillage his memory, safely cloaked, and force him to relive his entrapment at the end of time. it would only take a moment, it's a prison he cannot escape, it's an attack for which he has no defense.


__________________

Last edited by leonidas on Nov 20th, 2015 at 10:19 PM

Old Post Nov 20th, 2015 10:17 PM
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"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Diablo Corps

Post 1 of 3

(please log in to view the image)

The following are the main points brought up by Leo in his opening post.

  1. X-Mans Perceptual Advantage counters Plutonians Speed.
  2. First Move: X-Man will port out
  3. X-Man second action is Cloak and Shield
  4. Lastly his offensive move is a telepathic assault.


Point 1 - X-Mans Perceptual Advantage counters Plutonians Speed.
Having perceptual knowledge is great if you can ACT on it. In the world of boxing or mma its called telegraphing an attack. However telegraphing an attack is useless if your not “Quick Enough” to act on it. Simple right? Ok lets put my claim to the test. If X-Man can view the world in Planck Units, why is it that he is still being tagged by opponents as slow as Ares or Venom?
Don’t get me wrong having such extensive Perception is a fantastic tool, That’s if you have the right means to apply it, but if you don’t have the raw speed and the stepping in between moments is deemed illegal. Than whatever perceptual advantage Leo may have will not help him as much, your going to get tagged by Plutonian because your to slow to act on it.
However the real interesting part of all this, X-Mans “Perceptual Advantage” isn’t much of an advantage.
quote:
factor in the fact that my mastery of time also allows for PRECOGNITION:
there is also the PLANCK LENGTH SCAN i showed above that visually SHOWS nate seeing the future but it's the mimic scan that is really telling. in it, mimic actually knew EXACTLY what was going to happen to omega as he absorbed nate's power, showing his precog IS very specific and can be used to determine IMMEDIATE futures.

so, not only will i be able to REACT to his speed, i'd actually be able to PREDICT his assault. it's also important to note that nate is not, BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, slow himself:

Well I was saving this one up for Ahbi, since he bought up a similar point with the Silver Surfer. Plutonian can take control of the narrative on anyone who is viewing his passage of time.
http://i.imgur.com/ibVo1Xu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/R0LmiA4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DoBwssr.jpg

That means X-Man sees, whatever Plutonian wishes to show.

Point 2 - First Move: X-Man will port out
quote:
STAGE 2
with my perceptual advantage MORE than compensating for his physical speed advantage, i will instantly teleport as far from him as i can, and cloak myself from his senses:

His first physical action is to teleport the “PHUCK” out harm’s way. The Harm being Tony the motherphucking Plutonian. Heh. My first action was to immobilize him by negating his inertia.
Look your future sight is skewed, thanks to Tonys ability to take control of the narrative in the passage of time. Therefore you could not anticipate this move. And secondly Leo already admitted that X-Man is the slower of the two. Than that means its much more likely for Plutonian to immobilize X-Man before he ports out.

Point 3 – Cloak and Shield.
quote:

and cloak myself from his senses:

I was not going to address this, because I don’t believe X-Man can get to the Cloaking part before Plutonian starts smashing his fist through his skull. But Ill address it anyway.
At this level, the Herald Class. I find the attempt of cloaking useless. In the High Herald Class, every other character has some form of Extra Sensory Perception or Cosmic Awareness that makes it impossible for anyone to hide from another Herald. Time for scan blitz.

These are Tony’s Extra Sensory Perception (ESP).
Modeus: You really think you can sneak around behind someone who can see, and hear everything on the planet?
http://i.imgur.com/BeG2kaC.jpg

Yes he can hear everything on the planet.
http://i.imgur.com/7n5FwNW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0ETjaOR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VvtszaW.jpg

He can see the world around him, right through silly things like an energy fence or suns core.
http://i.imgur.com/P4quwvx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VfrDB41.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ki9P8gx.jpg

The scan shows how his X-Ray really works, and explains how he can see all E.M. Wavelengths.
http://i.imgur.com/SfigMa4.jpg

Tony can detect with perfect precision the position and momentum of every atom around him (sheeze).
http://i.imgur.com/ft1nPLD.jpg

I can post more, to show how Plutonians senses are both vast, and acute (We are talking feeling and seeing individual electrons here).So lets move on, things to consider about X-Man.
X-Man actions radiate energy that low level telepaths can easily see.
http://i.imgur.com/Z1TQoSp.jpg

Despite his shielding and cloaking, he was easily found realities away from a creature who isn’t known for having acute or extended sense.
http://i.imgur.com/S4pL9H7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yoUqeNP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pSX6Nve.jpg

Considering Tony’s extensive ESP, Nate can not have it both ways. You can not cloak yourself, and attack at the same time, and expect someone of Tony’s caliber not see you. And certainly NOT someone likes X-Man who radiates tremendous power when he flexes his psi muscle.

Point 4 - Lastly Leo offensive move is a telepathic assault.
quote:


tony has absolutely zero DEFINITIVE showings that would indicate he might either shield himself from my own tp (especially given my power level)
but.....(the scan of him having his mind read above aside) id may tell you this is impossible because plutonian himself is a telepath. that, however, is a bit of an iffy statement at best. while it's true tony REFERS to himself as a telepath, (and his powers are psionically based) his form of tp is not the normal form tp takes.
http://imgur.com/xwKU3MM

Leo in your efforts to downplay Plutonian, and up-play X-Man, you’re purposely omitting information.
Plutonian developed two ways to read a person mind. Telepathy and reading the brain itself. In the scan above, Plutonian was not able to read Qubit’s mind due to his mental shields that prevents any telepath from doing so. So Plutonian goes on to read his mind through his other method, using his “OTHER” Power.
http://i.imgur.com/pqXzcuQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1aluh0o.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F70xZUG.jpg

Plutonian is a Telepath
Officially he states it himself here.
http://i.imgur.com/pqXzcuQ.jpg
On a different occasion he forced himself into another telepaths mind here.
http://i.imgur.com/uwxLQM6.jpg
quote:

i will explain. before i do though, proof that tony's mind CAN be read. here is a low level tp reading his mind:
http://imgur.com/HNjql6X
now, id may say that didn't happen, that it was actually MODEUS's mind burrows (the mind reader) read, not tony's. but that isn't true--certainly not definitively. what IS definitive is that it wasn't tony's thoughts that drove him to kill himself. but there is absolutely nothing (aside from misinterpretation) to indicate that burrows did NOT read tony's mind..
http://imgur.com/kHOJWl0


So here are the pair of scans that your referenced. Personally, the scenes explain themselves. There is no indication that Burrows read Tony’s mind. He attempted, but he picked up the thoughts of Modeus and that drove him to commit suicide. Look at the scans closely, there is no evidence to associate Tony having his mind read.
http://imgur.com/HNjql6X
http://imgur.com/kHOJWl0

The reason why Burrows cannot read Tony’s mind. And the main reason why Nate would also FAIL to do any mental foolery. Isn’t because he is psionic being. Or because he is a telepath. Plutonian evolved to the point that his mind is naturally guarded from other telepaths.
To the point that even his Parents (Eleos) can not do so. Yes the same Eleos, those fully evolved Cosmic Aliens that manipulate psionic powers orders above Plutonian himself.

“Plutonian: Do you even have to ask? You know Im sincere. You can look into my mind.
Eleos: No more than we can peer into each other’s. That’s is how rapidly you are evolving.”
http://i.imgur.com/vThzUhW.jpg


Recap
X-Mans Wings are capped, your not running anywhere from Plutonian. Your first attempt was to port out. But I’ve negated your inertia, rending you immobilize.
Even if you got away, Plutonians senses are far too vast or accute for you to hide.
Mental Phuckery is not possible. Tony evolved to the point where Psionic beings more powerful than Plutonian or X-Man are not able to do so.
Tony is going to unleash a holy ass beating on Nate, and drive a black hole deep in his chest.


__________________


I'm Superman. I can do anything.

Old Post Nov 21st, 2015 02:19 PM
"Id" is currently offline Click here to Send "Id" a Private Message Find more posts by "Id" Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

POST THE SECOND

onward!

SPEED ISSUE

is tony faster than i am? yes. be stupid to deny it. however, nate is NOT slow, as i already illustrated. does he have a ton of speed feats? no, not really, but he does have thought-speed reaction time as shown above, even BEFORE he evolved into the shaman. here he easily bends and redirects bullets away from him after they are fired:

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/...09ima_super.jpg

and how fast ARE his thoughts: they can cover GALACTIC DISTANCES in an instant, as shown here when he communicates through a HOLOGRAM to the REAL majestrix, "safe" on her home world:

http://imgur.com/y9synFG

http://imgur.com/jsSYnZJ

http://imgur.com/hpYkuSt

so, again, he is not slow by any measure--and his thoughts are nearly indescribably fast. coupled with the perceptual advantage that allows him to LITERALLY break time down into the tiniest imaginable increments and SEE these increments, he would absolutely have time to react and then ACT before tony gets to him. his precog would help as well.

and let's not forget--tony is NOT blitzing me.

instead he is attempting the VERY RISKY gambit of negating my inertia. again, in the single instance that ability was demonstrated, he was in direct contact with the object.

jumping to the conclusion that he could negate inertia at a distance is a logical fallacy.

so, while he tries, and fails, to steal my inertia, i have plenty of time to port out of the way. as for why he gets hit by ares and venom? well, it IS a comic, he IS a hero and they ARE villains. ask superman or flash why THEY get hit.... that's not a great line of argument i'm afraid...

CONTROLS THE NARRATIVE??

no expression not much to really say about this one. the ability is so esoteric and vaguely described, as to be effectively useless in a battle scenario. in the scans he seems to have lead the eleos to a point in his OWN history that he wanted them to see, but....that doesn't mean, in any way at all, that he can somehow....control time?? or even perception...?? confused that scenario was so specific (he was IN the time stream, examining his OWN history) and so ill-defined that drawing conclusions from it, and extrapolating its battle usefulness is impossible, and as such, the whole idea should likely just be dismissed. i don't even know what it would do in a battle....

CLOAKING

ok, i'll not bother refuting tony's PHYSICAL senses. they are very good. but they don't matter in this match, at all. i am NOT hiding from him PHYSICALLY. as such, even things like atomic vision won't matter here. even this scan doesn't help:

http://i.imgur.com/SfigMa4.jpg

"HE ALTERS THE ATOMIC STRUCTURE OF OBJECTS HE IS LOOKING AT.....

a telepathic cloak has no "atomic structure", at least not in any provable way. the purpose is to direct all physical senses AROUND its presence. of course it shields against psi powered senses as well, as we saw earlier when he hid from the very powerful EXODUS. in any event, i wouldn't be the first to prove able to hide from him. he couldn't see inside this alien ship for example:

http://imgur.com/TPL5qLJ

and here, qubit actually cloaked his entire HEADQUARTERS from tony for a period of weeks with a determined tony constantly searching for it:

http://imgur.com/SAaIydd

http://imgur.com/okQMqpC

even when he KNEW where to look he couldn't see it. rather he had to follow the sound of the signal to get there! so yes, it is absolutely possible to hide/cloak to the extent that a herald can't sense you....

and judges, don't forget: i only need moments to touch his mind and find the necessary memories to take him down for good.

also important to recall? my ILLUSIONS. once i teleport, tony wouldn't even be looking for me initially. he'd be far too busy dealing with the illusions i leave in my place. the illusions would ensure i have the very small amount of time i'd need to locate those memories of his that i'm looking for....

as far as nate exuding energy that tony can sense:

http://i.imgur.com/Z1TQoSp.jpg

they didn't recognize his energy signature until AFTER he dropped his guard. all those tp's present and they couldn't detect his energy until he LET them. that scan only further SUPPORTS nate's ability to mask his power.... thumb up

as far as this bit of strawman:

http://i.imgur.com/pSX6Nve.jpg

lol nate was shielding them in an effort to keep the monster out, not cloaking them to hide them. the thing already knew where they were and was hunting them long before nate arrived, having already killed one of the telepaths. it was also coming at them from a different UNIVERSE. iow--that scene has no bearing at all on...anything as regards this match.

and lastly.....

TP ASSAULT!!1!1!

i confess to being impressed by id's attempts at countering my attack. i didn't know just how he was gonna approach it. he did well actually--just not quite good enough.

somehow getting into gazer's mind (whose power was pretty small-fry) is....significantly different from trying to keep out someone who can stretch his power ACROSS THE MULTIVERSE to find a few specific minds....

http://i.imgur.com/r9wuS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1baoH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1nhQs.jpg

i mean, seriously? she had scattered her mind across the muthaphukcing MULTIVERSE and nate...collected all the facets and brought them together. that really is a near-cosmic type feat...

and here nate actually reads the mind of all the telepaths in the room i showed above--and they had shielded themselves!

http://imgur.com/fWutzYz

"whoop-de-doo, leo!" you say, "they were probably low level chumps!"

no

http://imgur.com/SuXWuoh

powerful enough collectively to travel the multiverse and the timestream! that is DAMN impressive. they were powerful, experienced AND shielded, and nate effortlessly touched their minds.

assuming tony has some measure of tp in the true sense, it wouldn't matter in the least. to someone of nate's level and experience, his mind would be an open book with extra large font.

the eleos: the scans are kinda cool i guess, but--like so much related to tony--we really don't know just how capable they are. i mean here nate reads the mind of a GREAT BEAST:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...537-nate+49.jpg

i've already shown him getting into the higher being and world breaker, QABIRI's mind. in the past, we've seen xavier phukc with GALACTUS's mind:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...nxm09005ai0.jpg

and nate is even stronger than charles:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...8-xman01015.jpg

so, again, though the eleos feat is sorta cool, it might simply reflect the fact that eleos can't get into the heads of other eleos. we really have no idea how impressive, or irrelevant, that scene is.

what we DO know: nate has feats that are FAR greater and FAR more concrete. while tony fiddles with my illusions, nate scans his mind, finds the memory of his entrapment, and forces him to relive it, forever. (i noticed too that he still mentioned the black hole again. that was sufficiently debunked in my initial post, but didn't want anyone thinking i didn't attend to it.)

COUP DE GRACE

let's say despite the overwhelming evidence in support of the fact that nate CAN get into tony's head, you STILL don't believe it. as soon as nate sensed the resistance, he could simply do this:

http://imgur.com/7T9TYHp

http://imgur.com/W35CZ4o

http://imgur.com/rzkwBq8

in those scans, nate DRAINED THE ENTIRE GROUP OF THEIR PSIONIC ENERGY. and he did it easily and quickly. of course, as we all know by now, tony's powers are ALL psionically based:

http://i.imgur.com/Fb8DZ4I.jpg

so, while the trap using his own memories is more elegant, it is far from my only move in this match. i could always use the moves in combo if needed--if i sense his mind is resisting, i could drain and weaken him THEN find the memories i want and end this thing. or i just KEEP draining him until there is nothing left.

decisions, decisions....

RECAP

my perceptions (breaking time down, seeing the immediate future) and my own speed, coupled with his decision NOT to blitz at the start, give me MORE than sufficient time to teleport and cloak, leaving illusions behind in my place.

illusions set, my superior psi powers let me touch his mind, nearly instantly understand his history, find memories to use against him, and trap him in them. if he resists, i drain his psionic power to weaken him, or i drain him dry. his senses and ill-defined powers are not enough to overcome my concrete, proven levels of power.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...979-hr171ke.jpg

created to destroy WORLDS. not interested in worlds--just gonna destroy plutonian. smile


__________________

Last edited by leonidas on Nov 22nd, 2015 at 07:54 PM

Old Post Nov 22nd, 2015 07:40 PM
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"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Diablo Corps

Post 2 of 3 – To Infinity and Beyond!

I just wanted to point an example of the kind of physical monster Plutonian is. Tony goes on to create a “Black Hole”, aimed to absorb the ambient radiation across the globe. His job is to cover every square inch of Earth in under a few minutes, while holding the Black Hole in his hands. Despite the Black Hole gaining the weight of a “Neutron Star”, Tony succeeds in his task.
http://i.imgur.com/fDeQuI3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eYAT9qL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QaJt03W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2wpuX3A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/37iiJWM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/N1ZTw17.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fUbQPnX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u8ZEx8l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UFIBuSv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gBNZglO.jpg

That’s right. He flew at multiple speed of light in Earth’s Orbit, while he carried the weight of a Neutron Star in the form of a Black Hole.
The reason I point this out is. There is a reason why Leo strategy involves “make a run for it” and play “Hide and Go Seek”. X-Man for all his power can not go toe to toe with Plutonian.

Did I anticipate Leo to run? Yes. Which is why Negating his Inertia makes perfect sense here.
quote:
(1) he wants to use INERTIAL DAMPENING.

PROBLEM? based on the scan, it would appear that he needs to be in contact to rob something of its inertia. even if i WAS standing in front of him, he couldn't make contact through my shields, and a tk shield wouldn't necessarily have inertia as it is a non-physical construct.... to assume he could use this power at a distance would be a faulty assumption.

Lets try not to make misdirecting comments here. Tony and Nate manipulate both energy and matter psionically. Meaning if they will it, it can happen. Tony does NOT need to touch anything to negate inertia, like X-Man does not to grab Venoms head to perform his “Psychomatic” trick.
Besides I am negating the inertia of Nathan Grey who 5”9 and weighs 135 Ibs. As oppose to negating the inertia of the Moon which has the mass of 7.3477×1022 kg and weight of 7.35x10^22 kg. Big difference here. Plutonian will have no problem negating X-Man’s inertia.


quote:
he wants to SLAM A MUTHAPHUCKING BLACK HOLE THROUGH MY CHEST!

PROBLEM? while i love the enthusiasm, i'm again, not there and he can't find me. there's also the fact that QUBIT knew how to work with bette's powers to make a black hole, not tony.... and he needed bette's BULLET to create one, AND he even had to make adjustments to it to ALLOW it to take the form of a black hole. ALL of that was only possible because of QUBIT. there is not even CLOSE to enough proof to suppose tony, on his own, could just whip up a black hole....


The Knowhow. Yes Qubit discovered how to manipulate Bette’s gravity, and dark matter. But Qubit also instructed how to create it, while Plutonian read his mind by scanning the part of Qubit’s brain (Hippocampus). Meaning the kowladge the Qubit Gained, was also gained by Tony.
http://i.imgur.com/zZEWhBU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mocNMrc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ae80aN8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gYBQA7y.jpg

To do so. Its not necessary for Tony to relay on Bette’s Dark Matter to manipulate gravity. Its not necessary since Tony can manipulate all matter and energy, provided he knows the “knowhow” on how to do it.
The scan shows that my point above, Tony can do anything or will it because he is a psionic being, provided he knows the knowhow.
http://i.imgur.com/uxJkR3e.jpg
[qoute]a telepathic cloak has no "atomic structure", at least not in any provable way. the purpose is to direct all physical senses AROUND its presence. of course it shields against psi powered senses as well, as we saw earlier when he hid from the very powerful EXODUS. in any event, i wouldn't be the first to prove able to hide from him. he couldn't see inside this alien ship for example:

and here, qubit actually cloaked his entire HEADQUARTERS from tony for a period of weeks with a determined tony constantly searching for it:
[/qoute]

I see to many issues with your attempt to cloak yourself.
1) the examples you are against Tony are old. The Alien Ship, and Qubit Headquarters had cloaking’s that worked on Tony, prior to Tony expanding his senses which is not being factored into the argument. The scan below confirms he developed more powers and expanded his senses.
http://i.imgur.com/cq3hhao.jpg

2) The Space Ship, and Headquarters, where stationary and where NOT attacking Tony. In your case you are, how the hell can you expect anyone to believe you can keep yourself hidden, while X-Man is flexing his Psi Powers? Again you can not have it both ways.

3) Tony can modulate the world around himself to see things in a way that he can understand them.
http://i.imgur.com/SfigMa4.jpg

Finding you would be just as easy for Tony, as it was for Blacksmith. All that’s needed is to search for someone that does not want to be found.
http://i.imgur.com/mbmMxcQ.jpg


[qoute]i confess to being impressed by id's attempts at countering my attack. i didn't know just how he was gonna approach it. he did well actually--just not quite good enough.:[/qoute]
Why not?
The Eleos are characters that treated Plutonian as if they his child….They are his child. Heh.

But the point remains, they are psionic beings orders above X-Man or Plutonian. And their comment is very straight forward. Plutonian mind has evolved to the point that even the Eleos can not read his mind.

I am not claiming, Tony became adapt or a master telepath of X-Man’s order. Only that his mind is naturally guarded, and I don’t see X-Man breaching them, if the Eleos are unable to do so.

Recap[/b
You attempted because Plutonian is physically superior in every way, and X-Man and would lose in a direct confrontation.
You cant run, your inertia was effectively negated by Plutonian.
If you did run, you cannot hide, especially if attempting to direct attacks at me.
Tony’s mind evolved to the point of being naturally shielded from telepaths.
Plutonian will hand X-Man a beating, and use a Black Hole as a finisher ala Street Fighter.

[b](please log in to view the image)


__________________


I'm Superman. I can do anything.

Old Post Nov 27th, 2015 01:05 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

THE FINISH LINE!!1!

so, the last post. let's look at id's post then go over some of the reasons this match belongs to nate.

STRENGTH ADVANTAGE

as i said, i don't think it's conceding anything at all to say plutonian is the stronger. that is a FAR cry from conceding that nate is weak. it wouldn't come to this, but just to show off a bit.... id had thought that i might armor up for this battle. it wouldn't have been a bad option. encasing himself in tk armor allowed him to do THIS to the hulk:

http://imgur.com/xFFSMik

http://imgur.com/LGHgkrO

and how strong was the armor?

http://imgur.com/mfQoyjp

he remained in that giant thanosi's grip for SEVERAL pages before the armor finally started to give way. and while yes, it wasn't thanos, that thanosi WAS a good deal stronger than the hulk...

and of course, all that was BEFORE he came into his true power as a shaman.

ADDED BONUS!1!

beyond just my ability to temporarily match him in h2h (or at least not get killed outright), i could always just AVOID him by going intangible:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...11image0001.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...xman2320xc6.jpg

he has no proof he could hit me, and if he tried some energy whammy to make me solid, that would fall under matter manip on an opponent. that means i could likely STAY intangible and simply mind phuck him at my leisure while he is unable to do anything at all about it.....

POWA'!!

id's been talking up tony quite a bit. it's because he needs you to believe the hype, to assume potential=proof. things like saying he can "do anything" don't really fly though, not in this type of match. we know tony developed some new skills, but those skills were only very briefly explored by tony, so to assume he can do MORE than was shown, is, again, a faulty assumption.

but, just because i don't want tony hogging the spotlight again, here are just a couple examples of what nate himself is capable of. first, meet qabiri. i mentioned him earlier--he was the one nate was toying with using his illusions. anyway, qabiri is a planet destroyer--an effortless planet destroyer as shown here:

http://imgur.com/KWeImuk

http://imgur.com/JdoPBnV

http://imgur.com/LmVWIiJ

here is what he did to that alternate earth thor:

http://imgur.com/37T4MU2

he died just hitting qabiri's shield, no expression

here's what happened when he met nate:

http://imgur.com/WE5jmy1

http://imgur.com/rzQd87Y

"IMPOSSIBLE!"

now, it's true that later on, in their next battle, qabiri proved to be the more powerful, (nate survived being blasted from orbit to earth in the battle) it still goes to show nate is a true force. here, an alternate jean asks him to destroy...ASIA!

http://imgur.com/kFqHoW2

http://imgur.com/xKd2zPl

now before id brings it up--that was an alternate nate--a WEAKER version. here we see the real nate perform a similar feat of power against jean, who, at one point, was considerably more powerful than nate was and she'd already killed dozens of alternate nates:

http://imgur.com/em0ERY0

http://imgur.com/4XyKCMh

http://imgur.com/uz4XQKT

this is what she had him do earlier (before he became the shaman)--in his sleep!

http://imgur.com/V5rSdNT

http://imgur.com/fibbSTP

nate, literally without effort, destroyed that large city....

i showed you before that nate was created to DESTROY WORLDS--that was NOT hyperbole.

so, as you can see, nate is NOT short on power himself....

INERTIA!?

no misdirection intended, at all. again, we only saw tony use this power once and...he was in contact. he was never shown experimenting with the power again, so we can't just assume he was an expert at it, unlike nate, who has read the minds of people around the world and even found minds scattered across the muthaphukcing multiverse!!1! lol he's done a WHOLE lot more than just bring memories to the forefront--he has literally DISINTEGRATED high order telepaths simultaneously ACROSS A CITY! in nate's case, we have a definite frame of reference from whence to work, so the assumption that he can perform his PSYCHOSOMATIC ATTACK from a distance is a LOGICAL EXTENSION of his demonstrated abilities.

tony HAS no such frame of reference. no

anyway, as i said, even IF we assume he can cancel my inertia somehow, would that extend to freezing my mind, like being frozen in time? it would need to, or i could still teleport outside his range and my attack would proceed as normal. though there is no logical reason to think he could cancel my inertia at a distance, it doesn't matter if he does because there is certainly no proof the attack would prevent me from thinking.

BLACK HOLE??

id is saying tony can pull this off because he SAW the memories in qubit's head so automatically has the knowledge qubit does.

http://i.imgur.com/mocNMrc.jpg

the memories were "BLURRY", some clear, some "FAST FADING". and while he saw qubit learning to use bette's powers, there is no indication that TONY now has that info. by that logic, tony should have been able to perform all of qubit's plan WITHOUT QUBIT. but he couldn't. he admitted that he saw the plan, but that was it. we know some memories were blurred so he was NOT able to learn everything.

blurred memories, and needing qubit's help and guidance=tony couldn't do what qubit could. and based on that fact, we absolutely can NOT assume tony has the knowledge needed to create his own black hole..... not without something FAR more substantial.

EVOLVED POWERS

id is right, his powers and senses DID evolve. but how much? could he now perceive qubit's HQ? see through the ship?

and THAT is the fundamental problem with choosing plutonian in this type of match. we really have no true idea of just how much he DID evolve, or what he is ACTUALLY capable of. assumptions, 'potential', these things can't count for much in a match like this. nate is a proven powerhouse, with quantifiable feats. tony's evolved powers were shown in such a limited light it is impossible to accurately infer from them their limits. he was also still learning--meaning he didn't have full control of these abilities yet. making it even HARDER to extrapolate limits.... all these unknowns against a proven force like nate? erm

as far as his finding me: maybe he could, eventually--but he keeps forgetting the illusions. they would absolutely detain him (as they had qabiri chasing his tail) for a few seconds while i rummaged his thoughts and found the necessary memories to finish him off. with the illusions attacking him, he WOULD NOT BE LOOKING FOR ME--at least not initially. so whether he could or couldn't find me is irrelevant. it would take seconds to find the memories i need and end the fight psychosomatically.

his showing against his eleos parents isn't nearly enough to assume i couldn't get into his mind. their own abilities were almost wholly unknown....

these next couple scans are really important--they show that (a) tony really could NOT get all the info he needed from qubit's head, making it even MORE difficult to believe he might know how to make a black hole...., and (b) it shows that, despite his evolution, he was NOT invulnerable, and he COULD be lied to:

http://imgur.com/jTweWOy

http://imgur.com/4AnvXpV

clearly, despite his evolution, he DOES have weaknesses and his 'thought reading' DOES have definite limits. iow--no, the big man is not invulnerable. he CAN bleed....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNr0WXQ3Ho4

CONCLUSION

basically is comes down to how much credence you want to give to the idea that tony can do "anything". do we then assume he can take out thanos? odin? where do the assumptions end?

i've shown how powerful nate is, how powerful his mind is. my attack is as simple as it gets--port, illusions, mind read and take him out with his own memories. no massive display of power needed. but i COULD go toe-to-toe if needed. or i could simply drain him of his power as i showed in the second post--a deadly attack given he is a PSIONIC being....

and here is one more option: this was what happened when a young nate confronted an alternate (yet fully powered) magneto (the same mags who destroyed APOCALYPSE):

http://goodcomics.comicbookresource...3/09/omega3.jpg

nate ran into him and did THIS:

http://imgur.com/ijwj1Vg

just...shut off his powers. simple as. just another possible avenue to pursue...

it really boils down to the fact that nate is just too much of a PROVEN beast for tony to 'assume' his way past in this match. as cool as tony is, in this match, there can only be one real choice:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...68087-scale.jpg

thanks to id for agreeing to this little showcase, and to the judges for reading along. thumb up


__________________

Last edited by leonidas on Nov 29th, 2015 at 07:16 PM

Old Post Nov 29th, 2015 07:09 PM
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"Id"
The Man of Tomorrow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Diablo Corps

Post 3 of 3: Hasta El Final
Thank you Leo, and Team for being part of this comic battle. These nerd battles are always fun to be in.

I want the Judges to check out something. Here Modeus in the body of Bette gains the power to Manipulate Gravity to an extreme level, thanks to her Dark Matter Manipulation. Now Bette is nowhere near as powerful as Plutonian, but she can channel enough energy to drain Stars to fuel her powers.
That right, It takes the energy of Stars to halt, and damage Tony.
http://i.imgur.com/qF0uC55.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6Y0fEdE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n1g2z0K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rD0ee9E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CyjtKSO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4wbr3W0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RHdC0Ny.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KXneQPS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3EaUFb9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/r6BO6OX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/14Cddnv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B4Q5Y65.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WLd7cx3.jpg

Oh we are sooo not done. Next Modeus releases a sonic blast that pulverizes an entire City clean. And Tony tanks it like a boss.
http://i.imgur.com/PzmDFpb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rC1092M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8LYg2Gx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c5wHC5x.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RHhNpFQ.jpg


So after being bombarded by Sonic Blast, and enough gravity attacks backed by the powers of stars. Tony instantly recovers, and proceeds to one-shot Bette. Fantastic Durability, Energy Soak, and Recuperative abilities.
http://i.imgur.com/afWJ799.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rL3XVJB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OOgHRC5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UvfoLJa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WReLQlk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EzjtoBk.jpg

My point is. Despite Leo’s best efforts this will become a physical match. It takes the power to snuff out stars to damage Plutonian. Unfortunately X-Man tops out at planet wrecking. Which is far short, and simply not enough,

But Id! TELEPATHY!
Absolutely X-Man is a monstrous Telepath. But not strong enough to have his way with Tony.
Lets recap:
Point 1, from Post 1: Plutonian evolved to the point that his mind is naturally guarded from telepaths.
Point 2, from Post 2: His mind is so well guarded that even the Eleos can not read his mind. The Eleos being Plutonians true parents, and wield Psionic Powers orders above Plutonian and X-Man.

Point 3, of Post 3.
This is from X-Man issue 75. The last issue of his run, and when X-Man was in his Shaman form, at his Peak.
code:
Harvester: But that’s not what you want to ask me, is it? Go ahead. Read my mind if you like. X-Man: I cant. Your minds to strange, the pieces are there. But not in any structure I understand. X-Man: You’re an Alien.
http://i.imgur.com/6F6U1tp.jpg
That’s right. Nate cannot read the Harvesters Alien Mind. You know who else has an Alien Mind? Plutonian.

Take a look at their origin stories.

The origins of the Harvester are, he is an alien that came to Earth, and took on the physical properties of a human.
http://i.imgur.com/wnen5RL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/084HhjH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KelKi15.jpg

Plutonian origin story. Coming to Earth a probe created by the pair of Aliens (the Eleos) with own energies, and properties, are later shaped to attain human properties by a lone woman, wishing to have a child.
http://i.imgur.com/aJ2qUZ3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TK4QsJU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TvEpyY2.jpg

Leo, if the glove don’t fit. You must acquit. No mental foolery neuters your offensive. This means:
No mental drain.
No Power cut off.
No Projecting illusions in my head.
No mind reading.
No trauma reliving through the use of your Psychosomatics.
No Nothing!

No Telepathy makes it a physical battle, one which you cannot win.

quote:
beyond just my ability to temporarily match him in h2h (or at least not get killed outright), i could always just AVOID him by going intangible:
he has no proof he could hit me, and if he tried some energy whammy to make me solid, that would fall under matter manip on an opponent. that means i could likely STAY intangible and simply mind phuck him at my leisure while he is unable to do anything at all about it.....


I also find going intangible useless when in the High Herald tier, every other character in this tier has some form of affecting intangible characters, through whatever means.
In Plutonians case, unconsciously can affect matter to make them softer, or denser.
http://i.imgur.com/Ny10sB2.jpg
Later on he masters how to manipulate atomic density here.
http://i.imgur.com/CGCKlXw.jpg
code:
Rule #4. Non-offensive matter manipulation is allowed.

According to the ruleset, non-offensive matter manipulation is allowed. Forcing a character to become tangible is not offensive.

quote:
INERTIA!?

no misdirection intended, at all. again, we only saw tony use this power once and...he was in contact. he was never shown experimenting with the power again, so we can't just assume he was an expert at it, unlike nate, who has read the minds of people around the world and even found minds scattered across the muthaphukcing multiverse!!1! lol he's done a WHOLE lot more than just bring memories to the forefront--he has literally DISINTEGRATED high order telepaths simultaneously ACROSS A CITY! in nate's case, we have a definite frame of reference from whence to work, so the assumption that he can perform his PSYCHOSOMATIC ATTACK from a distance is a LOGICAL EXTENSION of his demonstrated abilities.

I see a discrepancy in this paragraph long rebuttal. There is no way clutching on to the Moon, can negate the inertia of something like the Moon. The laws of Energy Conversion are being outright broken. Your argument makes no sense, for Tony to negate it with his fist alone. More so, since this was one of many feats done under Qubit’s tutelage to learn how to master his psionics.
Look at the scan again.
http://i.imgur.com/Mt3BC5U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CF3DCN4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/29wpTLv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LSEN6pg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kJWmVkX.jpg


Tony applied his psionics to negate the moons inertia. If he clutched on to the moon, its just the authors illustrations to show how much effort it took Tony to do so.

The effort here is considerably less.
The starting distance between the two of us is 130 Yards. Nate is 5”9 and weighs 135 Ibs.
Well within the limits of what Tony has shown. If we use the Moon as point of reference. He negated the inertia of something that is roughly 14.6 million square miles. There is a lot more to this feat, but I’ll leave that for another argument.

quote:
anyway, as i said, even IF we assume he can cancel my inertia somehow, would that extend to freezing my mind, like being frozen in time? it would need to, or i could still teleport outside his range and my attack would proceed as normal. Though there is no logical reason to think he could cancel my inertia at a distance, it doesn't matter if he does because there is certainly no proof the attack would prevent me from thinking..

You say, Inertial Negation is not possible.
You Say, Inertial Negation is not a big deal.
Yet you’ve been arguing against it, for the past 3 posts now.
Yes even your thoughts would be suspended. All energy and matter exist in a state of flux. In a state of constant movement. Your neurons need to fire to convince, whatever thought. If that movement is negated, there is no thought-lead-action.
quote:
BLACK HOLE??

id is saying tony can pull this off because he SAW the memories in qubit's head so automatically has the knowledge qubit does.

No.
Plutonian can create a Black Hole, because he CREATED one. He literally manifested one in between his palms, its not hypothetical.
http://i.imgur.com/BYkV6UG.jpg
And He would be able to recreate it again.
Part of that reason is because Tony can peer into Qubit mind gain his knowledge.
http://i.imgur.com/CDbrfpa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PgImvjb.jpg
Another part of that reason, is because Qubit outright told, and wrote down the mechanics on how to make one.
http://i.imgur.com/zygC8c4.jpg
And finally part of that reason is because Plutonian is a genius. Retaining that knowledge and experience is no problem for Tony.
http://i.imgur.com/29wpTLv.jpg

Lets Recap!
At the start of the match you planned to teleport, and escape harm’s way. You cannot, your inertia was negated by Tony. What follows is a physical battle.
Your reaction will be an attempt to use telepathic might to take out Tony. You will fail, Tony’s mind has naturally evolved to keep telepaths out.
You will use your own physical force to defeat Tony. A destructive battle will take place, the Earth will shatter. But ultimately it’s not enough, the force to destroy Earth is NOT enough against someone that can withstand the force to snuff out the Stars.
Plutonian will pull a Shun Goku Satsu and land a Black Hole as a Flashy Super finisher.
(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2015 04:52 PM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

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The match has concluded. I will PM the judges now.



*Judges*
Please remember to send me your verdicts when complete. Once all rulings have been submitted, I will post them here.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2015 06:46 PM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

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I have received rulings from LordofBrooklyn, and Prof. T.C McAbe.

[edit]
DarkSaint85, Decter, and Smurph all said their rulings will be submitted within the next few days. I'm hoping to post them by this weekend.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 06:25 PM

Old Post Dec 3rd, 2015 06:16 PM
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Facee
Purdiest li'l thing

Gender: Male
Location: Team Authority

Can we get on with the voting already ? I grow bored of waiting.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2015 08:06 PM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

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Still waiting on DS, Decter, and Smurph.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2015 08:28 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

5 judges? sweet. thumb up


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2015 08:49 PM
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Facee
Purdiest li'l thing

Gender: Male
Location: Team Authority

Nice. And Galan has done an excellent job running the show. thumb up

I've read through this match twice already . VERY entertaining read.


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Old Post Dec 5th, 2015 11:21 PM
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Galan007
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DarkSaint has submitted his verdict. Just waiting for Smurph and Decter.


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Old Post Dec 6th, 2015 03:22 PM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

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Okay, Decter just submitted his verdict. While I would have liked to post Smurph's write-up as well, it ultimately wouldn't have changed the outcome.


The Verdicts (Parts 1-2):


quote:

LordofBrooklyn wrote on Dec 1st, 2015 11:14 PM:
The Verdict

Leonidas opening post

Shaman Nate will implore his psionic abilities to cloak his presence while simultaneously using illusions and mental manipulation to defeat The Plutonian.

Id’s Opening Post

The Plutonian uses his superior speed to gain an advantage against Shaman Nate by rendering him immobile through an inertia attack. He subsequently destroys Nate in this vulnerable state.

Verdict After The Opening Post

After the opening post Id’s advantage in speed appears insurmountable given the lack of anything comparable from Nate. This factor negates Leonidas psionic based assaults. The absence of a shield to begin the contest also removes the literal picoseconds involved in a match of this nature.

First Posts

Leonidas, argues that the lack of a straight forward attack through shielding grants him enough time to bring his plans to fruition. In addition, the energy produced by Nate in his assault is undetectable by The Plutonian. Furthermore, the ability to read The Plutonian’s mind and force him to relive his defeat which will create a psychosomatic response putting him in a catatonic state.

Id, reinforces the distinct speed advantage exhibited by The Plutonian. He addresses the psionic strategy outlined by, Leonidas, one by one. The issue of psionic energy being beyond The Plutonian’s detection is refuted directly both by scans of Nate failing to pull off the feat on a much lower level. The ability of The Plutonian to detect various forms of energy on the most minute level also diminishes the viability of Nate’s battle plan.

Id, then goes on to argue the battle allowing for Leonidas strategy and also supports the psionic abilities of The Plutonian as it related to protection from psionic manipulation as well as access to thoughts and memories.

Verdict After The First Post

Leonidas, has provided nothing so far to suggest that he can avoid or surmount the speed of The Plutonian. Id, maintains the validity of the speed advantage he possesses while also systematically demonstrating that both cloaking and psionic manipulation as a means of defeating his character are dubious at best.

Second Post

Leonidas, shows Shaman Nate’s psionic abilities to be immensely more powerful than in the first post. Nate using his telepathy to traverse an incredible distance through a holographic conduit to even more impressive displays showing him overwhelming groups of psionics and climaxing with a multiversal feat of skill.

The issue of overcoming The Plutonian’s speed doesn’t share the same level of improvement from the first post however.

Id, takes on the limitation of the inertia attack as argued by Leonidas. The tactile dynamic demonstrated by The Plutonian is argued as a means of application and not a limitation on the part of the character. The psionic nature of his abilities means he can use the attack against Nate without touching him.

There is nothing given about The Eleos to counter the augmented showing of Nate’s psionic abilities in the second post.

Verdict After The Second Post

The prospect of The Plutonian being able to withstand a psionic attack from Shaman Nate seems very unlikely at this point. The notion of the inertia attack being limited to tactile application has been significantly damaged through Id’s argument. The speed factor is the element that remains untouched after the penultimate post.

Final Post

Leonidas gives examples of strategies not brought up in the prior posts. The most interesting of which is intangibility. Both factors are presented as options if the fight prolongs beyond the point of his initial psionic attack after the use of illusions, precog perception, and mind reading.

Id reasserts The Plutonian’s physical superiority over Shaman Nate. Making a special point about his recuperative capabilities. The biggest point of the final post concerned Nate’s encounter with an alien mind and the limitations demonstrated in that encounter.
The ability of The Plutonian to alter density directly addresses Nate’s use of intangibility.

FINAL VERDICT

Id held a distinct advantage from his opening post detailing the superior speed of The Plutonian and his ability to stave off psionic attacks from Shaman Nate. Leonidas was able to gain a tremendous amount of ground with his second post showing just how much power was at Nate’s disposal. At this point in the match I had this at essentially a draw coming into the final post.

This was a chess match of the highest order where the slightest mistake would lead to destruction for the opposition. From the power of Leonidas second post I could see Nate gaining a victory through the slightest opening shown by The Plutonian. Id, however closed that window toward victory with his final post. I see Nate being delayed just long enough to allow The Plutonian to execute his plan.

The Winner

ID



quote:

Prof. T.C McAbe wrote on Dec 2nd, 2015 05:52 PM:
Hey Sure,
thanks for accepting me as a Judge. Here is my verdict:

Leo, opening Post:
What he brings to the table:
Def:
His defense against speed is perception and precognition at the speed of though.
Cloacking and Teleporting to keep the distance.
Off:
Trying to kill his enemy psionically, iow crushing his mind or making him erelive his entrapment.

Id, opening Post:
What he brings to the table:
Def.
Invulnerability, Durability, Speed.
Off:
Super Strength, Speed, Telepathy, Black Hole through the chest, WTF?

Leo, Post Uno
So, the Plutonian has no TP? Leo just explained how he will stay out of Ids reach and goes on with his tactic to make Id relive his entrapment at the end of time. Ok.

Id, Post Uno[/b]
Point 1 is solid and I agree. It's nice to know what's coming you way but if you can't react to it you are screwed. Point 2, preventing Leo from teleporting by controlling the narrative, what? Point 3, explains why cloaking won't work, seems legit. Point 4 and rest, Plutonian is also an Telepath, an powerful enough at that, especially the telepathic defenses.

Me
I think Id has the edge, since he seems to have a strong defense against the TP and the raw speed and power to take Nate out.

Leo, Post Dos
Speed of though against the raw speed. I agree that the inertia negating might now work and also agree that the narrative control is very vague. Explains why his cloaking would work, seems legit, and also the use of Illusions. His offensive abilities even against other telepaths are impressive. Should he fail with his previous tactic he would try to drain Id.

Id, Post Dos
Esplains why the inertia negating will work and that he can create a black hole. Also showcases the ability to find Leo and have a means of defense against Leos TP assault.

Me
Somehow I see Leo still in the defensive, though I agree with both on some parts I also disagree on others. I don't see the Black Hole as a valid means for a finisher for example, nor do I think that Id will be able to use the narrative against Leo. However, I have strong doubts that Leo can breach Ids strong TP defenses, though it's interesting that Id hasn't adressed Leos draining tactic. Kind of undecided.

Leo, Finite
Show that he can go toe to toe with Id for some time and his vast psionic powers. Also discredits, and rightfully so, some of Ids options.
Id, Finite
Explains why Leo won't be able to avoid him and that it will come down to a physical fight because of Ids defenses.

Me
It is an interesting match, with a lot of opinions about what works and what doesn't. Can Id force Leo from his intangibility? Forcing someone is offensive where I come from. Can Leo mindphuck Id? I have my doubts. If it comes down to a physical fight Leo will go down and though I see where Leo is coming from and agree on a lot of his conclusions I just don't see him taking down Id with his tactic. The power needed as shown by Id is just over the top and the physical speed advantage will press Leo into a defensive position quite fast if not outright overwhelm him.

So my vote goes to Id, congratulations and good job to both of you.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 7th, 2015 at 04:29 AM

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 04:17 AM
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Galan007
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The Verdicts (Parts 3-4):

quote:

DarkSaint85 wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 05:58 AM:
In the next....second.

Id has a massive speed advantage, which leo attempted to counter with his ssenses (his 300 ways of seeing). In effect, precog.

Problem is, Id countered it pretty effectively with his narrative conrol. Inertia control, however, seems to need physical contact - Id has shown nothing to prove he doesn't need it.

That alien mind reading that Id showed at the very last post is pretty tricky - I always find bringing up new points without your opponent being able to answer back can have a big effect on judges' decisions. HOWEVER, we have seen Nate affect Venom, an alien symbiote - so it may not be the be-all and end-all Id thinks it to be.

This battle, as most battles go, comes down to speed. Plutonian is way faster (leo, those scans of Nate dealing with bullets, was...a poor relation to Plutonian outracing radio waves, lol).

But as leo pointed out, he's opening with an attempt at inertia negation. Which needs physical contact.

Next, guarding his mind. Plutonian has mental shields against the Plutonians - some scans of how powerful they are would be nice. How high up the TP ladder are they?

So whilst this battle comes to speed, Id IMO wastes his advantage, by trying to go fancy. Without much proof to back it up, thus giving leo the chance to come back into the fight.

For these reasons, I give it to leonidas. Had Tony gone for the blitz at the get go, and attempted physical punchery, I would not have fancied leo's chances. But attempting inertia negation, whilst he has unproven mental shielding is...iffy against Nate. I don't see TP to possess atoms, as they're part of the EM spectrum in Marvel, by the way.

Good match, both. I don't know much about Plutonian, so was relying purely on Id's scans. Had leo chosen that loser, Superman, then Id would have won this handily.


quote:

Decter wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 08:56 PM:
First all I would like to say is congratulations on a badass match. Both competitors brought two legendary monsters to the arena. However, only one will be victorious.

Leo was smart choosing a highly versatile character against a major wrecking force like Tony. He had a very smart opening with avoiding a straight up brawl and looked to try out a more safe strategy. However I don't think he really considered Tony's inertia as much as he should have.

ID was smart with his pick, Tony had some-type of counter for almost everything Nate could throw at him. However, I don't quite think he showed enough proof to say Eleos would be above Nate.

Both Leo and ID were awesome with trying to counter each other's strong points, and both were smart by playing their strong points against each other with their opening post.

The way I saw it. Nate had the greater versatility while ID had the advantage in all physical stats as well as his badass inertial negation.

This was a really hard decision, and took a lot of alone time to come down to my decision. But in the end, as badass as Nate Grey might be, Tony should win this in the end.

Here's why

Although Nate by far had the better versatility. That was all he really had. Tony had the advantage in everything physical and had a counter for anything Nate could throw at him. And although nate is an amazing telepath with badass feats. ID brought up several good points to make me give him the advantage.

This was a good match guys. Congratulations to both of you


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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 7th, 2015 at 04:31 AM

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 04:17 AM
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Galan007
Pulling ALL The Strings

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The winner, with a total of 3 votes to 1, is "Id". Huge props to both contestants. This was a fantastic BZ. thumb up


*And a special thanks to all judges who participated. Very appreciated. thumb up


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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 7th, 2015 at 04:30 AM

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 04:26 AM
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