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Leo vs Darksaint - Amalgam Tier Wars part I
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Philosophía
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Leo vs Darksaint - Amalgam Tier Wars part I

This will be an amalgam battle. Full integration of powers and memories of each character are in play.

leonidas will represent the combo of triathlon/darkhawk/spiral
darksaint will represent black tarantula/Sebastian shaw/aurora.

The battlefield is a 1000 hole golf course with water, club house, and mountains nearby. We appear randomly on the course, 0.5km apart. There is a 3 post limit following the opening post by each competitor.

prep time rules: each competitor is in an unbreakable/unbreachable warehouse that floats freely in the negative zone. nothing can be brought in and no one can leave the warehouse, but other than that they can do whatever they can in that 10s. the time is equaled among all competitors, with speed being unable to lengthen the subjective time.

Judges: bentley, style, damborg


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2017 02:14 PM
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Philosophía
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Leo's opening post:

quote:

Dark Spialthon

Okey-dokey. Rules have been posted already, so let’s get started. For those unfamiliar with my characters:

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Rita_Wayword_(Earth-616)

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Triathlon

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Christopher_Powell_(Earth-616)

This battle takes place in a huge open area, which is a huge benefit for me. I’m not going to overcomplicate things. DS’s amalgam does a couple things REALLY well—it’s really strong and really fast. But while it has solid brute powers (along with a few light tricks) it really lacks any sort of versatility. And versatility?

(please log in to view the image)

Battle Plan: PREP

10s prep. Enough time to do a couple quick things:

(1) Cast a spell of invisibility on myself:

https://imgur.com/a/q0nJv

(2) Command the suit to enter full combat mode:

https://imgur.com/a/Tg4E6

https://imgur.com/a/v01kD

The combat suit provides a lot of additional protection in the event I need it.

(3) Erect a force field:

https://imgur.com/a/f2gLS
https://imgur.com/a/HWLwO

Then I’m ready to enter the battle.

Battle Strategy

He’s fast. He’ll say he can reach his theoretical limit in speed (almost light speed) with his upgraded body. More on that later.

My strategy is simple: the instant I hit the BF I teleport, far above and away from him. Spiral is among the best teleporters in comics. She uses her teleportation tactically and instantly:

http://imgur.com/a/NP1C5

http://imgur.com/a/A1V7f

And rogue is by no means slow. Spiral also has the advantage here of being 3x faster than normal in terms of…everything, including most importantly, perceptual/sensory and reflexive speed:

http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/...l-Comics-h2.jpg

if that isn’t enough to convince you I’m fast, darkhawk himself is exceptionally fast:

https://imgur.com/a/RVFfT

He isn’t tagging me before I port away. Once I’m well out of his range, he has no way of finding me and the battle is effectively done. I have all the time in the world to take him out with a psi-blast for which he has no defense:

https://imgur.com/a/3W9ex

https://imgur.com/a/iKpxk

https://imgur.com/a/cBN1q

and for those unfamiliar with karma:

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Xi%27an_Coy_Manh_(Earth-616)

she’s a powerful psi, ko’d and force-fed info ALL FROM A DIFFERENT DIMENSION. no expression

“But leo, she’s moving really really fast!1!!”

true, she is. But I’m fast too, and I’ve more than just speed on my side. Spiral has senses and abilities that are hard to quantify. Here is a good example:

https://imgur.com/a/dcEI8

https://imgur.com/a/tYCGu

that speedster was super sabre. For those unfamiliar:

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Martin_Fletcher_(Earth-616)

he is legit. Fast enough to run across water and up buildings. Here are just a couple scans to show he’s legit:

https://imgur.com/a/1vuFm

https://imgur.com/a/4mwyG

spiral detected him from MILES away and was able to predict PRECISELY where he would be, then was fast enough to not only trip him, but also to teleport and catch him before he fell—even though he was STILL moving at super speed. Another example of her ability to sense things and deal with them quickly: here she senses magik teleporting the new mutants, and in mid teleport, she hijacks magik’s spell and steals them all, bringing them to where SHE wants them to be.

https://imgur.com/a/6GnUm

https://imgur.com/a/PJWrH

her own exotic/precog senses combined with darkhawk’s brute speed and triathlon’s own enhanced sensory speed mean that she will be able to react to whatever ds throws at us in terms of speed. But the fun doesn’t stop there--darkhawk also has his own sensory tool--the DATASONG:

https://imgur.com/a/F059j

https://imgur.com/a/8Xqrv

https://imgur.com/a/O7FYG

the datasong is the constant flow of information a raptor (of which darkhawk is one) receives from the universe. It can act as both a source of precognition and standard information. When DH was finally able to tap into it fully he discovered the complete secret history of the Raptors:

https://imgur.com/a/1fGZg

Info is tapped instantly and the flow of info is constant and unending.

Spiral’s mind coupled with that type of information flow will be…lethal. Here is an example of her knowledge and mind and why she is such a good match with darkhawk:

https://imgur.com/a/S5eTF

https://imgur.com/a/S3q2L

https://imgur.com/a/tsg2F

https://imgur.com/JxIziwE

https://imgur.com/FYnoBQs

Easy to see why she’s such a perfect blend with darkhawk. She is responsible for creating the REAVERS, including most importantly, LADY DEATHSTRIKE. Her knowledge of genetics and cybernetics is second to none. She also perceives time and space different from most—there are several other examples—and her interdimensional knowledge is extensive. The datasong would be just one more tool at her disposal when it comes time to track and mindblast ds’s amalgam.

OPTIONS

While a psi blast is the easiest way to take him out, it is certainly NOT the only way…

Once I’m undetectable and a safe distance where he can’t randomly run into me, I have tons of options. Here she takes storm out effortlessly from a distance:

https://imgur.com/a/Jg9cv

or, perhaps best of all: let’s say no one believes I can hit her (silly) despite all I’ve shown of dark spialthon’s speed and perceptual advantages. I could cast a spell on myself that will turn my opponent’s attack back on him/herself:

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...-men206_09b.jpg

Phoenix, ko’d. all I need to do is cast that spell, then turn visible and let ds’s guy attempt to smash/pummel my force field, and WHAMMO, all the power of his attack is reflected back at him, causing him to overload and ko’ing him eezy-peezy-lemon-squeezy. thumb up

I have other options, of course, but will leave it at that for the moment.

To review: I’m invisible when I enter the BF and port instantly well away from him where I’m undetectable. Using my enhanced sensory speed/precog/datasong abilities, I hit him with a psi-bolt and ko him. If that appears ineffective for whatever reason, I take him out with a spell from a distance, or, turn his own power against him and have him ko himself. With my instantaneous mobility, he would never have any idea where I am or where the next attack would be coming from.

***NOTE: NONE OF MY ATTACKS EMPLOY KINETIC ENERGY, OR ANY ENERGY AT ALL THAT HE HAS EVER BEEN SHOWN TO ABSORB. EVEN THE MAGIC IN HERC’S SWORD STRUCK HIM, PHYSICALLY, WHEN HE ABSORBED IT. HE’S NEVER ABSORBED ANYTHING LIKE WHAT I’M SENDING HIS WAY.***

My psi-bolt is more akin to this attack:

https://imgur.com/a/jT4jR

betsy’s psiblade took shaw out easily, and nothing like a ‘healing inner light’ is going to stop the attack. The spell that ko’d storm could arguably be seen as a TP attack as well, (it’s really unclear,) if not, it’s a type of esoteric magical assault unlike anything he’s absorbed. Both are indefensible as far as he/she is concerned.

Now then, on to…

HIS OTHER PROBLEM

Now that I’ve outlined my own strategy, and pointed out how seamlessly my 2 (3) characters amalgamate, let’s look at his creation. We know shaw absorbs energy. But he can and has been overloaded:

Here storm ko’s him by overloading him with a lightning bolt (puts him in a coma for months):

https://imgur.com/a/3zr3b

here mag’s overloads him with physical damage:

https://imgur.com/a/G3aKK

https://imgur.com/a/QOVHQ

and here shaw ko’s HIMSELF by wearing a suicide bomb and exploding it:

https://imgur.com/a/StoG6

https://imgur.com/a/EKuzz

https://imgur.com/a/1CtjQ

NOW he’s paired with someone with super speed AND someone whose base strength is WELL above his normal strength level. Imagine what will happen if he tries to throw super speed punches with tarantula’s base strength as a starting point and aurora’s speed! Lol He will, almost immediately, reach then EXCEED his peak absorption limit.

Shaw’s absorption severely limits the number of punches she can throw. In fact, DS’s guy will have to be on CONSTANT guard against overloading himself. Hell, even wind resistance trying to travel at anywhere near the speed of light will cause him to accumulate vast amounts of kinetic energy. There is almost no possible way for him to approach anything CLOSE to top speeds, despite his increased durability. The increased durability also wouldn’t help him breathe any better at those speeds….

The unfortunate fact is, his amalgam is going to constantly be fighting itself, as well as me. And he’s gonna lose to both. smile

(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2017 02:16 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Gender: Unspecified
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Opening - Flight of the Tarantula
Amalgamated character: Black Tarantula, Sebastian Shaw, and Aurora of Alpha Flight

When the 10 seconds of prep starts, I immediately start charging myself. Shaw is well known for this, as seen here when Forge tried to cage him in a cell. Note, judges, that the cell wasn’t foolproof - Forge says that being hit by Thor would give Shaw enough power to break out (which should give you an idea of how much energy he can store):
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/d0a5cb2b...65413e41_hq.jpg
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/81978151...54fb254a_hq.jpg

He can take Holocaust’s energy, and return it TENFOLD:
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/fd68b071...2f8837f9_hq.jpg

And he can take ALL of Gambit’s energy:
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/32ca35a0...dd86fcb7_hq.jpg

How would I charge myself? I have Aurora to do so. She doesn’t JUST fly fast, oh no. She can discharge energy (the guy she’s fighting is in adamantium armour; more on that later):
https://s5.postimg.org/7li8nlufr/AF...ros_CPS_010.jpg

Failing that, I can just fly up into the air, and hurl myself at the ground:
https://s5.postimg.org/p4env3ql3/23.jpg

At Mach 50 speeds (of course, I don’t have to go that extreme), imagine how strong I will get:
https://s5.postimg.org/y7upckymv/Da...Men_003_024.jpg

Of course, I don’t just get stronger. I also get faster:
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/23958c1d...19612829_hq.jpg

And my telepathic resistance shoots up:
https://s5.postimg.org/4yb5w7uxj/16.jpg

Note, Emma Frost, one of THE most skilled TPers out there, who has an intimate knowledge of Shaw etc - wasn’t able to stop Shaw. Why is this important? Because when Emma has intimate knowledge of her opponents, she can do this to Mr Sinister (Hope, with Emma’s power but NOT her knowledge, was unable to do so):
https://s5.postimg.org/jz4q5dftj/x2.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/svfi9b6fr/x1.jpg

Judges, please be be wary. Leo may weakly attempt to use PIS scans, to ‘prove’ that Shaw can be ‘overloaded’ - well, I have shown that he can take the entirety of Gambit’s power, Holocaust, can give himself the equivalent energy of being hit by Thor etc. He can also absorb magical energy:
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/0dc0fbb9...76c3ae09_hq.jpg

Note, judges, two things: that Shaw is a match for Herc IN HIS PRIME, and how Herc specifically says there is very little physical energy for Shaw to absorb - IOW, the magic in his sword (which cuts ANYTHING) would do all the work.

But as you can see from Shaw, he didn’t even get a scratch. Shaw even says, a normal sword would’ve worked better than that (result: magic is ineffectual).

And here, Rogue uses a move with enough strength that would take out the Hulk:
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/6fc99896...bd6218c3_hq.jpg

Cannonball tries his luck too:
http://pm1.narvii.com/6428/0c5e25cd...21cf035c_hq.jpg

As does a pissed off Namor, with an Imperius Rex punch:
https://s5.postimg.org/uw0zx0w9j/Az6_SVDq_Ybf4.jpg

So Shaw, on his own, has pretty high energy storage levels. But on TOP of that - I have stacked Black Tarantula’s HF:
http://i.imgur.com/hm9UwEx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kD4x1aO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ep8Qg8r.jpg

BT, who can tank an explosion and being set on fire, and is unharmed. BT, who can take Spiderman with full Heart Force, and is unfazed:
http://i.imgur.com/l1ZKvaB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I6MlP91.jpg

Who can heal broken necks (in case you were wondering, that’s Delilah, who is around Spiderman level):
http://i.imgur.com/x7IUp9v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UAYCFju.jpg

Background on Delilah - she can crush a tank with her hands. BT toyed with her:
https://s5.postimg.org/uwan7vryv/5mRbzIupSp4.jpg

Enough tranqs to stop a charging rhino? Doesn’t even make him blink:
http://i.imgur.com/geZ8pue.jpg

Who is shot THROUGH THE HEAD by Deathlok and heals from it whilst Deathlok is still chatting:
http://i.imgur.com/NOYJX7d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kDYXffV.jpg

And judges, remember - absorbing energy increases ALL of my attributes. So BT’s HF? Imagine that, now amped. BT’s speed, which impresses Lady Bullseye? Amped:
http://i.imgur.com/PdoOFSP.jpg

BT’s strength, which is higher than Spidey’s? Amped:
https://s5.postimg.org/6tttd0bbr/XHqKT9_rbtE.jpg

For the record, this is how he was left after the fight with BT. Compare how he was against Juggy, or the Phoenix 5, or Firelord stick out tongue
https://s5.postimg.org/cs7mn8uaf/v3qkMN9HMlg.jpg

Yeah, I’m not getting overloaded here. Nor would passive attacks work against me, as I can always charge myself up back to tip top condition. Moreover, all the feats I have shown for Shaw and BT? Imagine them being even higher, now that I can continuously charge myself up.

Match starts
Ding, the bell rings. I immediately fly towards Leo, supercharged, zig-zagging of course, whilst emitting my calming light aura.

My what?

Calming light aura, which incapacitates Johnny Storm:
https://s5.postimg.org/s8pbrw7dj/Alpha_Flight94-08.jpg

And is still present:
https://s5.postimg.org/s9z9lb97b/Ci...016_005-002.jpg

So I send good vibes his way, lowering his defences (and any pesky traps he may try). Note when used against HT, he stopped fighting, and actually ‘flamed off’. Leo would do the same - he would stop any of his attacks and defences, and...just stop trying. It does not depend on sight, but merely to be in the presence of the light. He can turn invisible or cloak or cast illusions all he wants - unless he has a parasol in each of his six arms, he’s getting bathed in it.

And I’d punch the crap out of him. Oh, he has a nifty Darkhawk suit, ooooh.

Remember the previous scan, of the character with adamantium skin? That is DEFINITELY tougher than Darkhawk. How did Aurora deal with him?
https://s5.postimg.org/skycf3w47/AF...ros_CPS_012.jpg

Not quite speed steal. I LEND speed to objects, like Aurora did to liquefy his arm. Through that adamantium armour, into his head. Or arms. Or legs.

He might try to raise shields. As shown, it works through armour - shields won’t save him.

Judges, I am undeniably faster than him. Northstar, who is roughly at Aurora’s level, did this to Spiral:
https://s5.postimg.org/kja3x7dcn/411-20.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/ettvcw76f/411-21.jpg

No spells, no teleportation, no TP, no precog. Sure, she didn’t have her magic at this time - but she had her teleportation.

Note, I am NOT saying that Aurora = Northstar. Simply that Spiral is unable to deal with speedsters of this calibre. And here, I have a character that has Aurora’s speed at BASE, now AMPED with Shaw’s speed, strength and durability(thanks to the 10 secs of prep), with a one hit kill attack.

Spiral may have SOME OK showings against speedsters (and tbh, so does Batman, Deathstroke, Hulk etc). Doesn’t mean much. But against the one who counts, Northstar, she has been shown to be found wanting.

Darkhawk? Remember, however, that my calming light puts a stop to any shenanigans he may try to pull off. Or….

I just rip his gem out.
https://s5.postimg.org/ve179zs5z/p3_20_copy.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/a5niskdp3/p3_21_copy.jpg

Like Tombstone.
https://s5.postimg.org/irqsd5pp3/DARKHAWK-TOMBSTONE.jpg

I can take that gem, and I can use it for myself. Anyone can, right?
https://s5.postimg.org/x8e1rqf6f/p4_20_copy.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/59jw0vdjr/p4_21_copy.jpg

Summary
I am faster.
I am stronger.
I am pretty much TP-proof (and if needed, can show more as I stack Aurora’s anti-TP on top of Shaw). No less than Emma Frost has placed barriers in my mind, as of Avengers Academy:
https://s5.postimg.org/kxyetigd3/02.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/r61d44kev/p32_4_copy.jpg

Energy attacks, whether they be kinetic, magical, or pure energy, would simply charge me up. I have a HF that is far beyond his ability to damage, but with Shaw there, even THAT is amped now. Remember, I don’t just absorb kinetic - I absorb ALL forms:
https://s5.postimg.org/y6pcwwm6v/p31_7_copy.jpg

Spiral’s precog? Lol. BT treated a character with a far better pre-cog (Spidey) like a Canadian step-child. Care to go scan for scan against Spidey, and see who has more/better showings of their combat precog? Didn’t think so. Only now, my character is amped.

Leo’s only hope is to use my lowest showings, and hope you are fooled, bamboozled. But as my scans show, in a direct confrontation, Spiral has already shown to not be on my UNAMPED level of speed. I can, after all, fly at nearly lightspeed:
https://s5.postimg.org/6r0afbbyv/Alpha_Flight17-22.jpg

And one more, very important thing, judges: Some of Leo’s spells require the target to be standing still. During my prep phase, I will constantly be in motion - result: his prepped spells are ineffective. During the match, I will constantly be in motion - result: his unprepped spells are ineffective.

This being me, I of course have multiple plans and angles of attack, and should my initial assault not work (of a calming light to stupefy him, followed by gemrips and liquefaction of his internal organs) I will simply go on to my other phases of attack, which I am capable of doing in the matter of milliseconds.


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Jitay: I didn't know it had jizz in there

Old Post Jul 31st, 2017 02:35 PM
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DarkSaint85
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Post 1

Well. I certainly didn't think I would be celebrating my victory with the OP, but there you go.

Let's address things in reverse order.

As predicted, Leo attempted to use low showings and PIS. As I have shown, he can take the entirety of Gambit's power. Should I play the same game? Need I showcase Gambit's full deck against Gladiator? More recently, he charged himself with so much energy it was akin to getting hit by Thor (and thus, broke out of Box's cell). But this time, he now has BT's HF on top (which is now amped).

Not sure what Leo is on about, though, when he talks about wind resistance etc. Aurora seems to do just fine confused Moreover, what does he think I'm using to move around, puppy power? I'm expending energy as I fly at high speeds, discharging my calming light, etc. To go the overloading route is....strange. After all, even if I did feel like I was being overloaded, unlike Shaw, I could just...blast even more. BT has eye blasts. Aurora has her light show. Any showings of Shaw being overloaded are moot, as I have a pressure release valve. As seen, she can just blast away:
https://s5.postimg.org/bglmq6dlj/Ca...vel_007-014.jpg

But good to see, though, that he has used Betsy's feats for himself. Next post, I will use Flash and Quicksilver scans for Aurora.

Psylocke, who managed to do what Shadow King, Phoenix Jean Grey and Prof X combined, Emma, Stepford Cuckoos etc were unable to do, and mind rape Fantomex - THAT Psylocke, is now sharing feats with Spiral. Because they both have TP, lol.

(please log in to view the image)

At least when I used Northstar, he's in the same ballpark as Aurora. Jeez Louise.

But yeah, keep going with those psi-blasts. Emma couldn't stop Shaw, and that was before he was amped. Aurora laughs at psi blasts:
https://s5.postimg.org/oe13go76f/Da...en__003_029.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/nd0urjq6v/Da...en__003_032.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/h9nvldpav/Da...en__003_033.jpg

So yeah, using Psylocke (who has infinitely better feats) against an unamped Shaw who doesn't have a HF, or Aurora on top, is...yeah.

And now, we come to the meat of his post. His strategy.

quote:
To review: I’m invisible when I enter the BF and port instantly well away from him where I’m undetectable. Using my enhanced sensory speed/precog/datasong abilities, I hit him with a psi-bolt and ko him. If that appears ineffective for whatever reason, I take him out with a spell from a distance, or, turn his own power against him and have him ko himself. With my instantaneous mobility, he would never have any idea where I am or where the next attack would be coming from.


That was his opening strategy. Eurgh.

He's invisible. OK, no problem. I don't mind, lol - my calming light does not rely on me seeing her.

Here, she does it again, against the Wrecking Crew (just thought I'd throw that in there).
https://s5.postimg.org/vidusl847/Al...ht_118_-_22.jpg

And here she is, doing a massive burst:
https://s5.postimg.org/q4f2l1idz/xfactor116c.jpg

And again:
https://s5.postimg.org/odw1jk0uv/AF_109_Aurora.jpg

I don't care if I can't see him, lol. Be invisible. But when my light hits him (at the speed of, well, not Mach 4 that's for sure) he's going to be putty in my hands. Let's continue.

He ports away....using his...EXCEPTIONAL speed.

(please log in to view the image)

What speed? Oh yeah, a scan of Darkhawk flying at....Mach 4.

Mach. FOUR.

Lol.

I show a scan of her internally thinking Aurora can easily do Mach 50...Walter Langowski saying she can do near lightspeed - and leo's chuffed that Darkhawk can do Mach 4? Oh my.

quote:
Spiral has senses and abilities that are hard to quantify.

IOW, no one can say how or even whether it would work on Aurora, but hey, here's some no-name speedster (lemme guess, judges, you ALL had to click on that wiki link lol) that it totally worked on!

quote:
And rogue is by no means slow

As predicted, some PIS showings. In other news, Deathstroke is Flash-level and Batman is a lightspeeder, lol.

But yeah, he somehow ports away (with his Mach 4 speed lol - in fact, let's be generous and say his 3x argument is somehow valid - so he's now Mach 12 lol) and then...attempts his bestest to sense me.

Whilst I am desperately trying to get him to sense me, lol.

By the by - Triathlon's powers are to be 3x peak human. Not 3x his base, or to amp his strength to be 3x whatever he starts off with, lol. Amalgamating him doesn't mean 3x Darkhawk, or Spiral - just that he stacks the strength/speed/agility of someone who is 3x peak human. As seen in this scan (thanks Leo!):
http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/...l-Comics-h2.jpg

Lol. Anyway, let's continue.

He walks RIGHT into my trap. The instant he gets hit by my calming aura, it's all over for him. I am emitting it as much as I can, shining like a hippy beacon in the sky. If he wants to detect me, go ahead.

So to recap, my OP is valid. I enter the field, supercharged, and fly towards him whilst emitting my calming aura. I have shown that I am capable of massive bursts without being amped, whilst now, I'm supercharged. The beacon would be visible for miles around.

Meanwhile, he's invisible, trying to detect me whilst attempting to port out into the open (I believe he was attempting to port up into the sky? You know, where I am flying, and where there's no cover?)

My calming light hits him, and he loses the will to fight. No psi-bolts, no spells, nothing. Not that they would have worked anyway, even if he did manage to try.

I hit him, then liquefy his organs.


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Jitay: I didn't know it had jizz in there

Old Post Jul 31st, 2017 08:20 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

Post the First

One of the things I love about going against DS in these things is the bluster. lol I gotta admit, for a guy who is in A WORLD OF HURT, he sure does talk a good game. Wanna know one of the most common signs that a guy is in trouble in any debate?

Cries of PIS.

lol He’s already done it what, 4 or 5 times? That’s OK though. He’s made an awful lot of mistakes, and crying PIS is only one of the smaller ones...

who has shaw beaten that would make those overload scans PIS? The guy’s made a career of beating up cl90 colossus. Rogue hit with with a blow “that would take out hulk”?? I’m sure that isn’t a misrepresentation at all:

https://imgur.com/a/YYQp9

https://imgur.com/a/ImOZA

lol nice. REALLY appears eager to take on a random, crappy hulk. thumb up

And it’s like he didn’t even look at that Namor scan:

https://postimg.org/image/5q01q6uz7/

Shaw was F’d in that scene. On the next page, Donald pierce had to step in to stop the fight. THAT’s what happens to shaw when he faces a REAL class100 opponent. Holocaust was nowhere close to what he once was when Shaw confronted him:

https://imgur.com/a/6EYZA

no armor, hugely decreased power.

So, what’s he done? Brag he’d match HERCULES in his prime? Uh-huh…. Took ‘ALL OF GAMBIT’S ENERGY!!’ Gambit couldn’t ko CAP! He’s a low-mid meta for a reason…. The suicide bomb scene is also among his more current portrayals.

Bottom line: there is no PIS here, at all. And while crying PIS is a mistake in any match, leaving out or misinterpreting scans is a MUCH larger one. Let’s look again at how Aurora “laughs off psi blasts.”

https://postimg.org/image/fj0965idv/

https://imgur.com/a/KVST8

Oh yeah, the second scan was mysteriously missing from his post. She REALLY appears to be enjoying herself there, eh? In fact, it hurt her so bad, she had to manufacture NEW personalities to deal with the pain!

https://imgur.com/a/F5xSp

SEVERAL personalities, in fact (hence the “AND THAT’S NUMBER FOUR). This is yet one MORE reason why his amalgam is self-defeating. Aurora’s mind is…fragile to say the least.

https://imgur.com/a/PXfDM

https://imgur.com/a/G1ImS

https://imgur.com/a/Y28z5

https://imgur.com/a/PBzzU

https://imgur.com/a/MDQRx

https://imgur.com/a/dr1BJ

and that’s not all of them! She is the definition of mental instability, yet he wants you to think Aurora somehow ADDS TP resistance to his amalgam?? Lol OK. now add in the memories of two MORE people? Seriously, this is what happens when she goes up against “some no-name” low level tp d-lister! Lol

https://imgur.com/a/bteOA

Aurora would be a COMPLETE disaster and a massive weak link. And after waking up from my psi blast, she’d be curled up in a corner, drooling.

Her split personalities, however, DO explain why she hesitantly “tried” her light here:

https://postimg.org/image/vtl7b4bwz/

and why piledriver (FREAKIN PILEDRIVER!!) continued to resist even AFTER she used it. When she hit Johnny with it Aurora was in a PACIFIST persona. Her power reflected that. She isn’t anymore, hence the ineffectiveness of the light. Also explains why that was the first time she ‘tried’ it in…25+ years—it doesn’t work very well. Lol

As if that wasn’t enough to doubt the whole light thing, Spiral can’t be blinded:

https://imgur.com/a/FlrgH

is immune to TP:

https://imgur.com/a/2UK32

“THINK HARDER!” lol And even something as esoteric as possession from both rogue AND nocturne fails:

https://imgur.com/a/cGXU5

https://imgur.com/a/buNH3

https://imgur.com/a/TDUMF

https://imgur.com/a/gJ2JS

rogue, nocturne and betsy can’t subvert spiral’s mind, but I’m supposed to believe something that can’t even currently calm PILEDRIVER down is going to??

And ftr, this is what happens when the light is used against even a d-list telepath:

https://imgur.com/a/lOYB9

hell, even that well known paragon of psionic power….MOCKINGBIRD saw through his power!

https://imgur.com/a/tPCGe

https://imgur.com/a/9cZog

but let’s not go thinking the light ONLY fails against tp users:

https://imgur.com/a/NPnYK

https://imgur.com/a/8r0Pj

https://imgur.com/a/L7db5


And again, that was when she was a pacifist with that power at its best.

All tourney talk aside—Spiral would literally not even notice that light. In fact…. shifty

Maybe it would be better to simply PRETEND to be affected, (ala the nocturne scan above) so that DS can try his added speed attack, then redirect THAT attack back at him. LOL! Tell me THAT wouldn’t be awesome… she’d literally shake herself to pieces or overload herself and I could just mop up what was left! That is…almost poetic in its beauty. smile

And judges (as if another one is needed) the FINAL nail in the coffin for the light attack: note the scans--the ones that ACTUALLY show a calming effect, I mean, because this:

https://postimg.org/image/f4tv9fryr/

and this:

https://postimg.org/image/5lk6fz4gj/

are most definitely NOT ‘calming lights’, (yet one more error in a lengthy list of them….) They are the exact opposite—offensive releases of light that would drain shaw’s kinetic energy. thumb up

the ones that DO show the calming light show she needs to be STATIONARY!

Somehow he wants you to believe that he can shine this light while he’s traveling at near light speed? Cool, just show us aurora whipping around at super speed calming people. Easy, right?

HIS OFFENSE: randomly fly around at near light speed (scan to show her recently going anywhere CLOSE to that…?), lit up (scan of her speeding AND using the calming light….?), hoping I see the light and become hypnotized in the fraction of a second I MIGHT see it before she speeds away again.

no expression

Eurgh, indeed.

It’s clear the light fails for a HOST of reasons. Now, let’s look again at shaw’s TP resistance. The emma showing was solid. But emma was terrified of him her whole life, and had only seconds to break into his mind. Which she did, btw, later, easily:

https://imgur.com/a/4qmG7

https://imgur.com/a/S2yR6

https://imgur.com/a/GBMBb

As for the cuckoos scan—they were lying:

https://imgur.com/a/egnjg

security measures stopped them, not shaw’s defenses. Those errors are really adding up… lol incidentally, he said shaw’s TP resistance goes up when he absorbs energy? Love to see proof of that as well. smile

Thing is, none of that is terribly relevant. DS’s transparent conflation theories aside, the psylocke scan I showed earlier was only to indicate that psionic power is NOT something he can absorb, and it IS something that will take him down quickly, if it is powerful enough. I’m not invading his mind, I’m blasting the **** out of it.

His plan is a trainwreck. I’m not even convinced by his speed atm. Some recent scans would be nice. And ‘gem rip’? Through my invisible force field? Sigh… Hell, even the “add speed” portion falls flat on its face. I have a FORCE FIELD. I love how he says he’ll just….add speed to….energy? confused electrons that already move at light speed? Proof he can speed up an energy field….?

I feel I’ve said that a lot this post. Proof of this? Of that? Maybe next post…

MY PLAN:

Wholly intact. I port far away from him. The course would cover around 60 sq km give or take. Range is no issue, obviously. I’m undetectable. He’d have to randomly fly INTO me. And with my precog (lol at conflating spiral and spiderman….) that ain’t happening. I have as much time as I need to blow up his brain. If for some inexplicable reason that doesn’t work, I cast the spell that took out storm. Or fake the light working and let him vibrate himself to death! What else? While I’m invisible, I could dance an illusion—and given how weak aurora’s mind is, and how easily both her AND shaw can be affected by illusions, THAT might be my best and easiest path to victory. Something simple, you know, something that worked on PHOENIX:

https://imgur.com/a/acVEy

once she stops, this would end it quick:

https://imgur.com/a/Q3US3

one-shotting immortal herc is a TRUE feat. And not just herc:

https://imgur.com/a/xldK4

one-shots iron man as well. Real feats, against firmly established top tier guys. I’m not showing scans of a NEUTERED character (spiral) holding her own against someone (northstar) who is FASTER than the character in use (aurora). Though notice—northstar never beat her, even at her very weakest. Heh love spiral….

Final point: Spiral’s mind was altered by mojo:

https://imgur.com/a/ihymg

but her mind is STILL human. And you’ve seen her insane reaction speed. Triathlon triples that speed. So, yeah, get off my boy delroy.

[cms]nwoot[/cms]


__________________

Old Post Aug 2nd, 2017 04:53 AM
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DarkSaint85
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
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Post Two
As it was written, so it came to be. Hark at Leo trying to confuse and bamboozle everyone - did I not predict it in my OP?
quote:

Wanna know one of the most common signs that a guy is in trouble in any debate?

Cries of PIS.

thumb upI agree. PIS does not exist,I was wrong. Remember when I said Shaw took the entirety of Gambit's power? Who else did he do it to? Oh yeah:
(please log in to view the image)

But nah. Everytime a character fights, they are giving it their all. Rogue is using her utmost speed when fighting Spiral (didn't Leo use that as proof??), but NOT her utmost strength when facing Shaw. Seems a most strange double-standard.

quote:

who has shaw beaten that would make those overload scans PIS?


Read Box's words (I have already posted the scans, so needn't bother). It could be broken - but only if someone on the level of Thor punched Shaw. That's how much energy Shaw would need to break out.

And break out he did.

Moreover, note, judges, that in the ENTIRETY of Leo's posts, OP and otherwise - he neglects to address Black Tarantula, and his HF. Strange, that.

quote:
And it’s like he didn’t even look at that Namor scan:

Except...you must have missed the panel where he palmed an Imperius Rex punch. Which was the point of the scan.

quote:

Holocaust was nowhere close to what he once was when Shaw confronted him:

Reread that scan. Holocaust, whilst not a planet breaker (and note, judges, I never said he was), is still 'a being of horrific power'. He doesn't have to be a worldbreaker, to still have incredible amounts of power, power which Shaw took.

quote:

Gambit couldn’t ko CAP! He’s a low-mid meta for a reason…. The suicide bomb scene is also among his more current portrayals.

Oh my. So we are now lowballing, are we? And against Captain America, of all people! There are so, so many things wrong with this argument....Shall we name them all? Cap's plot aura, the fact Gambit wasn't out to kill, wasn't pouring his full deck (so to speak, unlike against Gladiator stick out tongue) into it...the list goes on.

Really, leo, am disappoint.

As for recent portrayals? OK. Never knew we had a time limit on scan validity....Avengers Academy is also recent. And he charged himself up with Thor level power thumb up
quote:

Oh yeah, the second scan was mysteriously missing from his post. She REALLY appears to be enjoying herself there, eh?


It's missing...because it wasn't needed. She gets hurt by psi-blasts? Did you not see the last personality? She LOVES the pain.

Moreover, I have already posted Black Tarantula scans, of him on FIRE, fighting Spiderman casually etc. Being shot is annoying:
http://i.imgur.com/pNkZrFT.jpg

Psi-blast? He was shot through the head, lol.

quote:

SEVERAL personalities, in fact...This is yet one MORE reason why his amalgam is self-defeating. Aurora’s mind is…fragile to say the least.

Self-defeating? Leo literally shows her switching between personalities to get around TP attacks (thanks, Leo!) at WILL, and doing so successfully.

And this is without BT or Shaw stacked on top.

quote:
and why piledriver ...continued to resist even AFTER she used it. When she hit Johnny with it Aurora was in a PACIFIST persona.Lol

Erm...wait. First you say she has multiple personas (one of which, I must remind you, is pacifist) and now you say....she is limited to one, and therefore cannot use her pacifist powers? Wha?

quote:
As if that wasn’t enough to doubt the whole light thing, Spiral can’t be blinded:

Cool. I'm not trying to blind you. Obviously you still don't grasp my strategy - no doubt the judges will, though.

quote:

is immune to TP:

Cool. It's not TP though lol.

quote:
And even something as esoteric as possession from both rogue AND nocturne fails:

Cool. It's not possession either lol.

quote:
And ftr, this is what happens when the light is used against even a d-list telepath
https://imgur.com/a/lOYB9

Erm...it shows it working? It made him tell the truth, lol.

quote:
but let’s not go thinking the light ONLY fails against tp users:

Lol. Are you doing my work for me? It shows Sasquatch passing out from the strain of having to fight off Headlok's control and Aurora. Not sure why you said it was not working.....confused

quote:

And again, that was when she was a pacifist with that power at its best.

So which is it? Doesn't Aurora have multiple personalities (which she can choose from at will, as you have so kindly shown), one of which is a pacifist persona? You're confusing me.

quote:
All tourney talk aside—Spiral would literally not even notice that light.

Because....she can't be blinded, possessed or TP'd? Cool, lol, the light is none of those.

quote:

Maybe it would be better to simply PRETEND to be affected

Wait, so your OP is now to be invisible, port out of the way (at Mach 4? Lol) high into the sky, finding me (whilst tapping into the datasong), psibolting me, then pretending to be hit and stunned by me, allowing me to get in close, then do your hand dance? Uhuh.

quote:
They are the exact opposite—offensive releases of light that would drain shaw’s kinetic energy.


Wait wait a minute here.

Your OP CLEARLY stated that I was going to overload myself. Your subsequent post, which I have now debunked at length, attempted to reinforce this.

NOW you're saying I will drain myself?

What is it to be? I have too much energy, or too little energy? Do I overload myself, or do I drain myself? Argument unclear.

quote:
Cool, just show us aurora whipping around at super speed calming people. Easy, right?

Ah, the 1000 ton pencil argument.

Here's Superman lifting a pencil.

Here's Superman lifting 1000 tons.

Can he lift a 1000 ton pencil? Do you have scans? If no, he cannot do it! WIN!

Next. Despite me saying it over two posts, you REALLY don't grasp my tactics, lol. Once more, with feeling:
quote:
HIS OFFENSE: randomly fly around at near light speed (scan to show her recently going anywhere CLOSE to that…?),

Oh yeah, the time limit of valid scans again. Here are scans of Spiral from the 80s, 70s, but noooo Leo wants yesterday's issue of Alpha Flight for Aurora. Again. I am amped here. Aurora at base can go near lightspeed. My character has Shaw's amping abilities.

quote:

hoping I see the light and become hypnotized in the fraction of a second I MIGHT see it before she speeds away again.

Erm. No. No speeding away. I am liquefying your organs.

quote:
The emma showing was solid. But emma was terrified of him her whole life, and had only seconds to break into his mind. Which she did, btw, later, easily:

Yes. By specifically being unable to do so by mindbolts. She had to go and cast illusions - which is specifically NOT the attack you tried in your OP. You tried a psibolt, lol.

quote:
As for the cuckoos scan..
security measures stopped them, not shaw’s defenses.

The security measures were on influencing minds. What were the barriers preventing them from doing again?

Oh yeah, that's right. READING Shaw's mind. Completely different. Try harderthumb up

quote:
the psylocke scan I showed earlier was only to indicate that psionic power is NOT something he can absorb, and it IS something that will take him down quickly, if it is powerful enough. I’m not invading his mind, I’m blasting the **** out of it.

So - like Emma specifically failed to do? And Psylocke? Who mindraped CASSIE NOVA? Fantomex? Yeah, ok, somehow Spiral can replicate that.

quote:
And ‘gem rip’? Through my invisible force field?

Remember, judges, this was Leo's OP:

quote:
(2) Command the suit to enter full combat mode:

https://imgur.com/a/Tg4E6

Damn.That looks awesome.Remember when Leo laughed at my scans, saying how old they were, then touted how awesome his were?Remember how he said he had a forcefield?

That awesome scan is from Avengers Arena #3. March 2013. Here's the full sequence:
https://s5.postimg.org/kfwtuf5nb/p3_19_copy.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/ve179zs5z/p3_20_copy.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/a5niskdp3/p3_21_copy.jpg

Lol.

Just in case he argues no FF:
https://s5.postimg.org/3qvdyi91z/p3_7_copy.jpg

quote:
What else? While I’m invisible, I could dance an illusion—and given how weak aurora’s mind is, and how easily both her AND shaw can be affected by illusions, THAT might be my best and easiest path to victory

Oh wait, we're changing again? Psibolt or illusions? Thanks for acknowledging that a far superior telepath (Emma) was unable to psibolt him, though.

quote:
but her mind is STILL human. And you’ve seen her insane reaction speed. Triathlon triples that speed.

Lol. You don't pick and choose which peak human you're 3x of. Why not say you're 3xBatman?

Summary
First, I was going to overload myself. Then, I was going to drain myself. First, he was going to psi-bolt me. Then, he was going to dance an illusion.

He doesn't even know what my strat is (despite two posts). I'm not dancing away. His defense is nonexistent. He's trying to have 3xSpiral, whilst equating Psylocke to Spiral. Asking for specifics, when he himself gives none. Shows Aurora enjoying pain - whilst laughing that she can't. Posts old scans - then asks for recent ones, whilst ignoring recent scans.

Leo is now floundering all over the place,less of a hypnotic dance, more like an epileptic octopus.


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Jitay: I didn't know it had jizz in there

Old Post Aug 2nd, 2017 08:42 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

Post the Second

See, I can do cool formatting stuff too. big grin

Anywho…his post is a bit of a mess. Most of it is fairly irrelevant, and, unfortunately for him, doesn’t say very much. I do love the way he tries to spin things though, to make it seem like I’m the one fumbling around like a virgin in a backseat. Lol

There are a couple repeating themes though, and one centers around my apparent lack of understanding regarding his complex offense. So, let’s review. smile

quote:
I immediately fly towards Leo, supercharged, zig-zagging of course, whilst emitting my calming light aura…I send good vibes his way, lowering his defences… Note when used against HT, he stopped fighting, and actually ‘flamed off’. Leo would do the same - he would stop any of his attacks and defences, and...just stop trying. It does not depend on sight, but merely to be in the presence of the light.



Huh. Yeah, that seems pretty tough to grasp. This is important because this is, literally, his ONLY offense. So, let’s break it down:

quote:
I immediately fly towards Leo..


no expression

(a) We appear at RANDOM places on the battlefield.
(b) I am INVISIBLE.
(c) I TELEPORT the instant I reach the BF. Recall, our BF covers about 60 sq km—ON THE GROUND. Since we can both fly the total volume of our BF is MASSIVE and I can appear ANYWHERE in it, instantly.

Continuing:

quote:
…emitting my calming light…I send ‘good vibes’ his way…HT stopped fighting and actually “flamed off”. Leo would do the same.


That’s the crux of it, the basis of his ENTIRE offense.

(please log in to view the image)

(a) Current Aurora doesn’t have the personality to pull that ability off effectively (see PILEDRIVER scene). She was a PACIFIST in the Torch scene and she can NOT switch persons at will. Now Shaw and BT are in her very fragile head too, and they certainly wouldn’t HELP calm her. Lol There is NO reason to think this light would be effective at all.
(b) The power takes focus and STATIONARY concentration/effort:

https://postimg.org/image/x7cu6fb6b/

https://postimg.org/image/vtl7b4bwz/

https://postimg.org/image/of5zcz2oj/

https://imgur.com/a/NPnYK

https://imgur.com/a/8r0Pj

https://imgur.com/a/lOYB9

https://imgur.com/a/VFNfU

What, in ANY of those scans, would make anyone believe she can zip around at mach 50, and calm someone??

EVERY SINGLE TIME IT WAS USED she had to stop and focus her power. Even then it failed more times than it worked. And that was when she was a PACIFIST!

(c) He has ZERO PROOF she can emit this light while flying at super speed. Not only is there no proof, it makes no sense when you consider the nature of the power.
(d) There is no reason whatsoever to think that Shaw’s energy absorption would somehow translate to the light being more….calming?? WTH? If anything, Shaw would DECREASE the effectiveness of it. Maybe it would burn a bit brighter but that isn’t the key. The mental effect is what he’s after, and thinking Shaw’s power would enhance the calming effect is... Lol
(e) Even when she was a pacifist and could use it MOST effectively, THE LIGHT FAILED MULTIPLE TIMES, against opponents FAR less mentally formidable than Spiral. Headlock—a d-list TP—ko’d her when she tried it on him. She was flat out KO’d when she tried it against a group of random scrubs, Piledriver resisted it, Sasquatch wasn’t affected by it and even in the scene he is basing his entire offense around, Johnny—JOHNNY FREAKIN’ STORM—was able to break free of the effect in seconds and turn her power AGAINST her!

http://imgur.com/g48lFnM

Johnny Storm did that. no expression

(f) My mental defenses are extremely formidable. Spiral’s made a CAREER out of fighting X-Teams and has never—EVER--been affected psionically by any of them. Not while she had her magic. But better than that even, you know who her ARCH-NEMESIS has always been? PSYLOCKE!! You know, “Psylocke, who managed to do what Shadow King, Phoenix Jean Grey and Prof X combined, Emma, Stepford Cuckoos etc were unable to do, and mind rape Fantomex AND CASSIE NOVA--THAT Psylocke!” big grin Yet, despite that, I’m supposed to believe Aurora will hypnotize her with the same light that can’t even keep JOHNNY STORM or PILEDRIVER on tp lock-down??

So, yeah, a few problems with what he wants to do. But that’s not all. He later adds this bit:

quote:
. I have shown that I am capable of massive bursts without being amped, whilst now, I'm supercharged. The beacon would be visible for miles around.


Sigh…

(a) He never showed ANY massive bursts of ‘calming light’. The bursts he’s talking about were just different forms of light that would do nothing but drain Shaw’s energy. Even if we pretend he CAN fly around with his light, it would drain Shaw so he’d need to constantly recharge, potential delays I could take advantage of.
(b) He LITERALLY NEEDS you to believe that if I even GLIMPSE this light, from miles away, for a fraction of a second as he zips around, that I’d just…give up.

The whole thing is just…. blink

On top of all that, we have this gem:

quote:
it does not depend on sight, but merely to be in the presence of the light.


LolWut? Nonsense. Someone doesn’t need to SEE it to be calmed? Proof coming any time soon? Not that it’s relevant. /shrug

So, to sum up:

HIS APPARENT THOUGHT PROCESS: I’m going to randomly fly around at near light speed, lit up, HOPING leo’s guy sees the light and becomes hypnotized in the fraction of a second he MIGHT see it on that huge battlefield before I speed away again. The judges will be sooo totally bamboozled when I blame leo for being confused and not understanding things that they won’t even notice I don’t have proof for ANY of this!! MWUHAHAHAH!

Yeah, sounds like a perfectly plausible plan. thumb up

While we’re on his strategy, let’s review some of the things I mentioned last post. When I opened his most recent post the first thing that struck me was the lack of scans. Of what? Well…

(1) Proof she can whip around at top speed and use this light AT ALL, let alone with any sort of effectiveness (yeah, yeah, I know, 1000 pencils!!1! However, seeing as how his ENTIRE OFFENSE IS BASED ON THIS SINGLE TACTIC, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for some proof he can do it…)
(2) Proof she can ‘add speed’ to a force field
(3) Proof that Shaw’s TP resistance increases as he absorbs energy
(4) Proof he can currently fly anywhere CLOSE to light speed in the first place

You know, basic proofs of….everything that he says he is going to do to beat me. Incidentally, this scan:

https://postimg.org/image/k7x8y6mab/

is from BEFORE her powers were altered by walter langkowski. She lost that level of speed.

*** Judges, we all agreed we would use CURRENT versions of the characters UNLESS they had been significantly upgraded or downgraded (EG—current spiral has no magic, so I am using the ‘classic’ version), hence my request for RECENT scans. DS knows this of course, but wants to make you think I’M the confused one who is using double-standards. Lol***

MY OFFENSE

Show up, teleport, psi blast him. That hasn’t changed and has always been my #1 option. Fight is over very quickly. Even if for some reason he is NOT killed (remember KARMA is possessed of PSYCHIC SHIELDING which makes her immune to TP and mental assaults but was STILL taken down from a REALITY away…), he would CERTAINLY be stunned, and a simple spell capable of taking out HERCULES easily, would end him.

If the psi attack doesn’t work for some incomprehensible reason?

WHO CARES!

I’m still invisible and can just randomly teleport. With my precog, I could avoid him all day and his light isn’t a threat. I could take him out with the spell that ko’d storm. Cast an illusion that makes him think I fell for his light then hit him with the HERC spell. I could simply appear in front of him and reflect his power BACK at him, like I did to PHOENIX. Or, in this case, FIRESTAR:

https://imgur.com/a/90aeJ

Having her light turned on herself gave her pause (as shown above). In that pause I hit her with a KO spell, or negate her powers:

https://imgur.com/a/0edmH

https://imgur.com/a/NWpxJ

https://imgur.com/a/7RIGP

notice a couple of those negation spells were cast MID BATTLE. All I need is a second and DS’s guy is powerless. ALL of those are completely viable options if for whatever reason you don’t think my psi blast ends it immediately. I have FAR too many options here. He has one…ish?

Final Points

(1) Bt’s healing is good. Being shot in the head DID put him down for a bit. My blast would do the same, and obviously the attacks are very different. Even if he’s only stunned, that is time for a follow up spell to finish him.
(2) It’s clear to anyone who can see, that in the darkhawk scans he posted he certainly did NOT have his force field up. Even if you want to believe he did, he was wiped out by APEX, a powerful technopath who controlled his armor. Far as I know, no technopaths in the field, so irrelevant.

Summing up

His offensive strategy is…not very good. Mine is completely viable, fluid and filled with options that don’t even require you to believe I one-shot him with my psi blast. He’ll never know where I am and all I need to do is stun him for a tiny amount of time and this is done.

RIP DS


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Old Post Aug 4th, 2017 03:47 PM
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toplel
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pretty mediocre debating so far, expected better. go on tho

Old Post Aug 5th, 2017 05:41 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Post 3
So. Final post.

With this post, judges, I will summarise what my OP was, and some glaring mistakes in Leo's post.

It has not changed. I spend 10 seconds preptime amping myself. Shaw has shown that ALL of his base stats increase when he amps himself. Strength, speed, durability, endurance.

Remember, he is at base a normal human (with a b!tchin' dress sense). Like you, like me. No other abilities.

I start, at base, with Aurora's speed and light abilities. With BT's strength, speed, and HF. All combat skills. AT BASE.

I really cannot stress this enough. AT BASE, WITHOUT amping, I can do whatever my three characters can do when unamped.

Furthermore, it is not the same BZ that Philo and Celey had. NO CIS. This isn't Aurora's mind in charge, or Shaw's. I was wracking my brain wondering why Leo kept bringing them up, when I realised he has fundamentally misunderstood the BZ.

Why does he keep insisting that Aurora's 'fragile mind', or 'pacifist mind' is in play? I'm not choosing her mind, with BT's body or Shaw's powers. It's a Super Skrull-esque, completely NEW character who happens to have all of their powers and memories.

So, to summarise so far: At base,without amping, I can emit bursts of light and fly at extremely high speeds. Shaw's abilities uses energy he absorbs, to amp his natural abilities. Previously, this just means the same abilities a normal guy has. Except now I am amping a Super-Skrull who ALREADY has speed, strength, energy blasts, eyebeams, the durability to breathe and fly at high speeds and a kickass HF, amongst others.

Remember, Shaw, a normal human male (Class...0.2?), with normal human abilities, can absorb enough energy to amp himself to take on Rogue, Holocaust, Gambit, Namor, and give himself enough energy to replicate being hit by Thor.

With my base abilities all amped, I start the match by flying towards him. Yes, he is invisible, and I may be flying away from him (I did assume I was at least facing him), but my opening offensive tactic does not care for this.

It is an omnidirectional light beacon. Imagine a room, suddenly illuminated by a lamp in the middle (remember, I am in the sky). Does being invisible....mean you can't see the light? Remember, judges, his opening strategy was to actively try and FIND me. Recall, also, that his opening strategy was to fly up into the air, depriving him of any cover.

He says I need to stop and focus. Really? Where in ANY of his scans does it say that? Furthermore, remember, this is unamped Aurora. If a normal man can be amped to replicate Thor's punches (on average, of course - let's not go crazy and assume I can suddenly take on Glory, lol), well...imagine how my bursts of light suddenly appear.

A little segue - he keeps asking for scans of how my telepathic resistance goes up. Remember how I said Shaw was a normal human? You think a normal human can throw off Emma Frost's psibolts when she's actively trying to stop him, AND when she knows him well? I showed how she mindwhammied Mr Sinister, just because she knew Scott. Well, she's known Shaw for a hell of a lot longer than Scott, lol.

I showed that she can emit huge bursts of light (unamped). I showed that she can emit calming light (unamped). To emit huge bursts of calming light, and to ask for precisely the exact scan, is EXACTLY like arguing that Thor cannot lift a 1000ton pencil. I can go the same route. Show me Spiral reacting to a speedster of Aurora (UNAMPED)'s calibre. Super Sabre? A no-name d-lister? He can run on water, apparently.

http://www.sciencefocus.com/qa/how-...-run-over-water

That link, answers that to run on water, a normal human needs to run at 80km/hr. That's like....50mph. It's hardly an impressive achievement. Of course, I'm not saying Super Sabre isn't fast - but to tout
running on water as some kind of wowzah feat isn't exactly the best way to do it.

Then, I said he would drop his defences (as shown with Aurora and others) and will then lend speed, liquefying his internal organs. As shown, it went through adamantium skin.

He touts his forcefields. Yet, despite going into combat mode (and him using the EXACT same scans I did, to attempt to show how uber it was and how uber the FF was), he still got the gem ripped out of him in two or three panels. He didn't have the FF up? That's a sh!tty combat mode, lol, if it has no shields. He argues this was from a technopath - so does he have proof that it was hacked? Isn't he connected to the datasong, a constant flow of info from the universe? Doesn't Darkhawk have brute speed? Yet, a no-name d-lister (to use his words) simply just ripped it out of him. TOMBSTONE ripped it out of him. This FF isn't exactly that impressive - note that there have been almost no scans showcasing them. LOL at using a scan to highlight his combat mode....then arguing said combat mode has no shields.

He attempts to use Psylocke as a guide to how his attacks would work. Talks about his mental fortitude. Two things: one, the light isn't a mental attack, and two, her foes mean nothing. Apparently, Psylocke is a Spiral foe.

The Top is a Flash foe. Toyman is a Superman foe. And? Emma Frost is a Shaw foe, lol.

He misleads you with the Piledriver scan too - she only used it in the third to last panel, and then Piledriver was down (LET ME TRY SOME CALMING LIGHT):
https://s5.postimg.org/s9z9lb97b/Ci...016_005-002.jpg

The Human Torch scan? He didn't break free. Leo is misrepresenting it again. Johnny felt so good, he tried to 'share the warmth' (see the 2nd panel):
http://i.imgur.com/g48lFnM.jpg

He was in full hippy mode there. Sharing, not fighting. And even then, Aurora just went full lightburst mode (which strengthens my argument). And you can see HT falling back down to Earth.

Leo then starts throwing in the kitchen sink - always a sure sign of desperation as he tries to bamboozle you judges with how impressive he can be. Sure, I freely admit - Spiral is indeed more versatile. She can cast illusions, teleport, mind-blast, has precog etc. That doesn't make her better in this match. On average, even with a sneak attack, Puck humiliates her:

https://s5.postimg.org/5vvexun2v/puck.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/9cxh0tm53/puck2.jpg

She was limited in her powers - but only with regards to teleportation and magic. Precog? Skills? Teleportation? She still had them (you think you can punch me?):
https://s5.postimg.org/m5ll0qxqv/Puck3.jpg

Yet, Leo is turning her into some kind of Midnighter/Spiderman combo. When BT has - without being amped, and with his own base speed - taken on and destroyed Spiderman in h2h.

Northstar has taken on Spiral, and was literally running rings around her. Yes, Aurora is slower than Northstar - when she isn't amped Now, I have taken it, and amped her speed with Shaw's amping ability.

Conclusion
Judges, thank you for taking the time to read through all of this.

When the match starts, Leo is actively looking in my direction with his enhanced senses. I have amped what is normally a pretty good sized lightburst, into a massive...Sunbuster, if you will. A normal man with normal punching abilities can be amped to replicate Thor's punches - imagine a speedster with light bursts and a HF, then AMP that.

We know Leo's amalgam's durability is suspect. Speed is nothing to write home about. Has incredible sensory abilities. And has flown/teleported straight up into the air, without any cover, and is actively looking in my direction. I don't NEED to know where he is, I just need to shine.

He talks about using psibolts, then freely admits that Emma was unable to do the exact same thing he is talking about, despite having prep and prior knowledge.

His opening post said that I would overload myself (no doubt, when planning, he thought that was a surefire way to victory). Then realised, crap, he has this awesome BT, who has healed from a shot to the head, being blown up and set on fire, and has tanked Spidey with full Heart Force's best shots. Has the ability to discharge energy, and 'send' speed into a target. So he then switched, and now, I am apparently going to drain myself.

He talked about using mindbolts, then realised mindbolts are a bad way to go. So switched to illusions (note his 1st post). Then just handwaved all of my post away as 'irrelevant' when I brought up all these contradictions.

I'm not hoping he would see my light. I KNOW he will see my light, because he has enhanced sensory abilities (see his OP). I KNOW he is looking for me (see his OP). He WILL see it, and it will be his downfall, buying me the valuable second or so I need to hit him, and liquefy him internally. The speed lending was always the crux of my argument - I know I mocked him for not understanding my complex offence, but it really is true. The calming light is only to buy me the time to liquefy him - and note, so far, he STILL (despite my insistence on it in my OP) not even addressed it. The light was never my main offense, lol.


__________________



Jitay: I didn't know it had jizz in there

Old Post Aug 6th, 2017 09:12 PM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

COUP DE GRACE

Okey, dokey, time to polish this thing off. First, a big thanks to the judges and DS for taking part. I enjoy doing these when I have the time, but without others willing to take part, it couldn’t happen, so, thanks. smile

Onward:

quote:
It's a Super Skrull-esque, completely NEW character who happens to have all of their powers and memories


True, but doesn’t help him. AURORA is STILL a fractured mess, and would have influence. It’s still fragile, as I showed repeatedly, and BT offers nothing at all in the way of protection. Shaw’s mind might be tough to penetrate because of some tricks Emma taught him, but the others’ ARE NOT. And they are part of his amalgam. Besides, I’m not probing:

I’m nuking his brain.

I easily ko’d KARMA, and here, a different spell wipes out betsy, again:

https://imgur.com/a/s3qkx

and that was when she was immune to mental powers altogether:

https://imgur.com/a/Le3sT

so, maybe I don’t use a psi blast—maybe I just use THAT spell instead. My offense is very flexible, unlike his. Regardless, I have no idea how he thinks some “drills” Emma showed him can save him especially with Aurora in his head. I also don’t rely on TP to find him. I have TWO different forms of precog to make use of—if they’re needed with his light show...

Simply put a psi blast or variation of one, ends him.

On a slightly different note—while he’s strong and fast, Shaw’s energy doesn’t amp ALL his natural skills. They amp PHYSICAL ones. He doesn’t get smarter, for example. He has some good psi defenses against intrusion, but they don’t increase. Case in point, he kept No-Girl out of his head once while he was NOT amped. His defenses don’t increase, they are always there. I’ve never seen proof they increase, and without proof….? I can’t buy it, nor should you. It’s the same reason Shaw’s abilities would NEVER ‘increase’ the efficacy of his ‘calming light’.

Likewise, precisely BECAUSE of the full integration he is touting, the Shaw/BT personas would make it practically IMPOSSIBLE for him to use this ‘calming light’ with any sort of effectiveness. Like Aurora’s mental vulnerability creates an avenue of attack for me, despite what you believe about Shaw.

That’s the benefit AND disadvantage of full amalgamation—you are forced to take the good WITH the bad.

quote:
Remember, judges, his opening strategy was to actively try and FIND me.


Well, this part is simply false. My strat is to get as far away from him as I can the instant I hit the BF. The reason I thought I might have to locate him was because I didn’t know he’d make it so easy to find him.

Again, I can’t stress enough the…oddities he wants you to accept. Can anyone possibly think that if I spotted him from, literally, miles away as a point of light, that I’d…quit fighting? I gave SEVERAL strong reasons to suggest if he were standing directly in front of me, focusing his light on me with all his energy, that it wouldn’t affect me. Immune to bright light (Dazzler), immune to mind-phukcery (Psylocke, Rogue, Nocturne), etc...

For his part? He has given you ZERO reasons to believe this attack could even be done at all, let alone that it could work on someone as mentally formidable as I am.

quote:
He says I need to stop and focus. Really? Where in ANY of his scans does it say that?


Really? THAT’s his defense? In EVERY SINGLE scan where she uses that power she is stationary (or nearly so) and in close contact with the target/s, focusing her power…

At no point, EVER, does she use the light AND her super speed.

This isn’t the “I’ve never seen Spiderman bake a pie on panel, so he can’t bake a pie!!” scenario. This is a very SPECIFIC and important tactic he wants you to believe in for no better reason than because he’s telling you to. And he’s doing so without a SHRED of proof to back it up. In fact, it seems contrary to the nature of the power at all—it’s a calming power—aggressively, randomly zipping around and NOT giving a target time to focus on the light is the exact opposite of what the power tries to do. /shrug

quote:
Show me Spiral reacting to a speedster of Aurora (UNAMPED)'s calibre. Super Sabre? A no-name d-lister? He can run on water, apparently.


AND up buildings. And you need to be going HELLA faster to do that. But it’s weird—he really hasn’t shown…anything at all in regards to speed for her. He’s keeps TELLING you she’s fast. But, currently, I have (and you, the readers should have) absolutely ZERO reason to believe current Aurora is ANY faster than Super Sabre. Seriously. Where’s the proof? I did quite a bit of research on her, and I’ve seen nothing recently that leads me to believe she is definitively faster than Sabre. If true, or if she’s even only moderately faster, this is….WAY easier than I anticipated. And without proof, I see no reason to ASSUME she is faster than him. As a corollary, with no base to speak of, we have no idea how much Shaw would amp her speed (he barely becomes faster himself…) if indeed he would.

Recall, please judges—these matches comes down to what we can PROVE our characters are capable of doing, or, in some cases, REASONABLY prove. I’m literally doing NOTHING new with my guys, nothing that isn’t on panel. Spiral is human. Triathlon triples PEAK human stats, therefore she is faster in terms of reaction time. Darkhawk has accessed the datasong, Spiral has demonstrated strong precog and powerful spells. Does it seem natural, given her mind and specialties that she would be even BETTER than darkhawk is at making use of the datasong? Yeah, seems like it to me. But you don’t have to believe that for my plan to work. It’s enough that DH has used it, and spiral has precog.

He NEEDS you to believe something that has NEVER happened.

Super speed + calming light? The fact that I don’t think it has a chance of working regardless, is beside the point. Point is he has no proof it can even be done. Not even a hint that it could. That…can’t be allowed to stand. erm

quote:
the light isn't a mental attack,


Wut? It changes a person’s MENTAL STATE. Of course it’s a form of mental attack… fortunately, my mental defenses are…very very good as I’ve shown repeatedly. Through the entirety of this match, I’ve done nothing BUT throw doubt on the effectiveness of his approach with scan after scan.

quote:
Johnny felt so good, he tried to 'share the warmth'


http://imgur.com/g48lFnM

He started to fall, broke the effect then turned her power back on her which…she didn’t like. That’s not a misrepresentation, that’s…what happened? confused It’s also why a spell that reflects her powers back on her would be so effective. thumb up

quote:
Precog? Skills? Teleportation? She still had them (you think you can punch me?)


no expression

She thought she’d dodge him but he was faster than she thought. That…wasn’t precog failing. Lol Again, c’mon…

quote:
Now, I have taken it, and amped her speed with Shaw's amping ability.


(a) We don’t really know how fast she is to begin with. Next to no scans to prove her speed. At this the mach 50 claim seems like nothing more than hyperbole.
(b) If shaw CAN amp her speed, his energy would be burned off quickly because he’s also trying to burn that light at some crazy intensity. He even admitted as much in his second post as a way to defend possible overloading. She’d be speeding up, slowing down, brightening, dimming…and she’d need to constantly recharge herself. None of these are positives….

quote:
I KNOW he will see my light, because he has enhanced sensory abilities


Now he wants you to believe that even if I see him via PRECOG or the datasong, the light will take me out??

Sigh….

He has exactly one—ONE--option in this fight. Hope that I see this light in a HUGE BF, suddenly drop ALL defenses, become visible and give myself up so he can speed me up—which may not even be enough to end it anyway. The armor can take a lot of punishment. One of the best feats was handling a blast from the COSMIC CONTROL ROD:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...onfigure004.jpg

sure it hurt some, but the armor was fine and the fight continued. And if I AM hurt, I also have a VERY good healing factor:

https://imgur.com/a/s7s8q

https://imgur.com/a/QiLCo

if damaged, I could port away, switch to human, then go back to armor, FULLY HEALED.

Wouldn’t be necessary because my defenses and force field (which he couldn’t speed up) would never go down… funny though, him claiming the light is NOT his main offense. Without it, he has ZERO chance of even FINDING me, let alone hurting me.

And that’s a wrap. He has no way to find me, thus he needs you to believe these crazy claims he’s made about this light he is trying to use: I don’t need to actually even see it, the tiniest glimpse of it makes me quit, seeing it through PRECOG senses is enough to make me quit, he can fly around at super speed and shine this light and it will work just fine, it requires no stationary focus…

Not a shred of proof to support…ANY part of it.

My plan is simple and straight forward—arrive, port, psi blast and follow up with a host of potential spells if needed. Simple and foolproof, requiring almost no suspension of disbelief.

Thanks again to DS and thanks to the judges for reading. thumb up


__________________

Old Post Aug 7th, 2017 02:31 AM
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Damborgson
Still Thor

Gender: Male
Location:

quote:

StyleTime wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 10:45 AM:
Excellent match to both of you guys. You largely neutralize many things from each other, so this was difficult to judge.

Dark, your Sonic the Chill-hog strategy was pretty creative for what was, ostensibly, the more straightforward powerset. You're a juggernaut with a bit of hax thrown in. The "core" ability of Shaw synergizes well with your strategy. You can cruise around without much fear of retaliation because it will only amp you.
In the event you are overloaded, which is a non-issue as you've shown, Tarantula's healing factor puts you right back in the game. All the while, you've created the no-flex zone around yourself. If Leo is caught, he's getting liquefied.

Leo, your physical inferiority is offset by the sheer variety of unorthodox abilities available to you. With teleportation, spells, and psychic attacks, anyone would be hardpressed to counteract your offense. For me, this battle is decided by one particular moment in the fight: match start. Because of this, I'll get straight to the point.

Dark is the faster combatant, although I wish you'd have used more scans of Aurora herself speeding around. Logically, you could be on Leo the instant the fight started with your calming light or a fist to the face. Even if Leo got a psi-bolt off, your defenses enable you to fight long enough for a KO. You can absorb some magic as well, so you've some protection to that avenue of attack as well.

This match starts with randomized locations though, and Leo is invisible. These are two of the biggest factors here. I'm simply unconvinced Dark could reliably find Leo in time to apply the healing light, and I'm not convinced Shaw would amp the light enough to make proximity irrelevant. Combined with the fact that some of the people did fight through the light, I don't know that momentary contact if Dark sped by would be enough to pacify Leo before he teleports. (Assuming Dark does pass by him at all). The argument around the psi-bolt was odd to me though, as it seems like Leo's trump card is his power nullification spell. With his mystical senses, he could find Dark and strip his powers away after teleporting to safety. There isn't really a defense, at least none presented anyway, to this attack.


Verdict:
Leo via power nullification. It's close though.

Good fight to both of you.


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Thanks Galan

Old Post Aug 8th, 2017 07:24 AM
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Damborgson
Still Thor

Gender: Male
Location:

quote:

Bentley wrote on Aug 7th, 2017 05:11 AM:
Leo vs Darksaint.


Amalgam


Darksaint came up with a combination that is the epitome of physical ability: combine Aurora's speed, Taranula's healing factor and Shaw's absorbing abilities and leo just can't win the physical confrontation. As a matter of fact, the amalgam is simple to a fault: good physical stats and bulk, fairly limited versatility.

Leo decided to play the opposite kind of game: Darkhawk and Spiral are tricky characters while Triathlon is mostly there to give the others improved reflexes (or at least ciment the amalgam has at least Triathlon's stats). But let's be honest, Leo is playing Spiral on a stick, the other two characters were barely covered and their way on enhancing the sorceress are vague.

So in my opinion, DS has the superior amalgam as to how he made the combination work (the debate even proved that is not as straight forward as originally assumed).


Darksaint 1 - Leonidas 0


Strategy

From the get to go Leonidas decided to go defensive against DS's superior status and prowess, invisibility turned out to be a critical factor in whether DS manhandles Leo or he wanders aimlessly on a golf course like an american president. After this initial evaluation, Leo went his way to prove he had inevitability on his side: the longer the battle goes, the more likely one of his tricks come to fruition.

DS decided to flare up a calming light omni-directional light to catch Spiral into giving up her invisibility and offensive plans to seal the deal. If the light fails, then DS doesn't have a tool to get around invisibility and teleportation, and is forced to guess -where leo's amalgam is.

Leo's strategy is easier to buy that DS's because hiding, teleporting and blasting are all things Spiral has proven in the past, while we've never seen the effects of a "calming flare" over a potentially huge distance while going at high speeds - something leo called out through all the debate-. Leo's strategy is sturdier in general, so I'm giving him this vote.


Darksaint 1 - leonidas 1



Debate

Leo did focus in the elements he needed to shoot down: calling out whether DS could realistically amp his "calming" effect, limiting the debate to whether his amalgam could be found or not. For the rest, they went back and forth in different elements of their strategy. DS even produced the idea that leo would need to look for him to trick him into getting caught by his light, I thought it was a neat argument.

Now, I'm not going to take into account whether the calming light works through the Darkhawk armor, I did not see any scan showing an armored opponent falling play of it, but since neither debater argued about it, I'll leave it alone. No CIS leads me to believe that DS's amalgam would be able to focus its personalities better, but they'd still exist and become an exploitable weakness (not one that matters much here).

All in all, I believe both did a decent job, both with succesful counter-arguments against what the other claimed. I'm barely giving the edge on the debate to leo, as I felt he covered more basis in case we did not fully share his point of view.

Darksaint 1- Leonidas 2


Conclusion

I give my vote to leonidas, after the OP I wasn't very convinced that his strategy would pay off, but he managed to sway me as the debate went on. Thank you both for the debate, it was sweet and short!


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Thanks Galan

Old Post Aug 8th, 2017 07:25 AM
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Damborgson
Still Thor

Gender: Male
Location:

Doesn't seem like my vote was needed (Thankfully, less pressure.) but I'll give a little input too:

----------


Okay so, I'm going to have to go with Leonidas, and here's why:

That was some excellent use of Spiral and your overall prep there. An invisible, super fast teleporter who can nuke DS's mind and nullify his powers, it's pretty fool proof. And DS is by no means weak, Shaw provides him with some pretty hax and tanky stats that essentially rocket him out of the tier with his self amping. Overall though, I was more convinced by the sheer lightning quick versatility attacks that Leo will be rocketing out, especially when the magnitude of the psychic attacks sunk in.

There was however a point in the debate that I actually had switched my vote to DS, and it had to do with his calming light. It's hardly impossible for that technique to work, and to be honest had the fight not started with 10 secs of prep which Leo used to get out of the immediate threat, Iprobably would have had to side with DS. It's incredibly hax for this fight. That said, Leo of course did a good job nullifying that hax ability, and pointing out that DS's proposed battle plan simply wasn't as likely as his own.
==============

Good job guys. That was a cool read, thanks for inviting me to judge and congratulations to Leo, that gives you the 3-0.


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Thanks Galan

Old Post Aug 8th, 2017 07:26 AM
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DarkSaint85
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I will burn you all to the ground.

Good match though! Was tres enjoyable, and good victory leo (beating me basically means you've won the tourney).


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Old Post Aug 8th, 2017 08:30 AM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

laughing out loud

sweet! thanks guys. i really wasn't sure how this would fall out. can't thank you enough for the prompt replies and detailed analysis.

ds, it was a pleasure and know that you died well. thumb up


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Old Post Aug 8th, 2017 11:57 AM
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StyleTime
Thinking About You

Gender: Male
Location: In your head.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Damborgson
had the fight not started with 10 secs of prep which Leo used to get out of the immediate threat, Iprobably would have had to side with DS. It's incredibly hax for this fight.

It's neither here nor there, but yeah, I would lean towards DS's strategy in a non prep scenario too. Leo's Inviso-porting is really compelling in this scenario though.


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I'm always watching.

Old Post Aug 9th, 2017 02:15 AM
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