- Winner by incapacitation (restrained for an unreasonably long period of time, knocked out, otherwise taken out of action, etc.) or death.
- BFR is OFF
- No summoning of tools or outside assistance. Only what is reasonably considered standard gear may be used.
- Prep Time (5 seconds of prep before each match, then both character will hear the "ding" and the fight will begin)
- And for the fun one.....ALL FIGHTS ARE IN CHARACTER. That's right, you'll have to argue as you'd argue in the VS section. Just a lot better.
Location
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The room of spirit and time. Essentially a featureless environment with a ring the size of the planet earth. You will start on opposite ends and then find each other.
REWARD
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: THIS DIC-
A custom signature and the title "the greatest hero"
Hey Dambo, here's my OP for the tournament. Thanks again for hosting this.
Alright, ladies and gentlemen, here we are. A classic throwdown for the ages. Two interstellar hunks, one green, one silver. Their powers are diverse, and considerable in their scope. That said, there is only one that really matters in this contest, and it is the one in which my chrome opponent is least competent.
Telepathy.
Yes, the Surfer has a plethora of tricks. All require the use of his mind, however, something of which he will be completely deprived. I mean, we know for a fact that Surfer’s mind has been breached before-
Now, what does this mean, you ask? Well, considering that J’onn is far and away one of the most powerful telepathic heroes in all of comicdom, it essentially means that the Surfer is screwed. I mean, we are talking about an individual who can casually read the minds of every being in the galaxy-
So, a single mind isn’t going to be much of a challenge. I mean, Superman has one of the most resilient minds in existence, right? Yet J’onn can wipe his mind on a whim, along with the rest of the Justice League's-
Now, it should be noted in the above scan, that J’onn had been kept in a flaming cage and dosed up on flaming tranquilisers for literally MONTHS beforehand. Immediately prior, he mindraped what is essentially every prominent villain DC had to offer, including Gorilla Grodd, who is HIMSELF a formidable telepath.
So he really wasn’t in peak form. That didn’t stop him, however, and nor will any paltry psychic defences Surfer has to offer. Any crack is enough for J’onn to exploit, and as I’ve shown, those cracks certainly exist. I guess I’ll get this out of the way now, as well. All those feat I posted? In fact, any of J’onn’s appearances during the late-nineties to mid-2000’s? His telepathy wasn’t at full power. You see, for years, J’onn was keeping the Key in check. Who’s the Key, you ask? He’s a JLA villain, one with immense mental powers, whom J’onn kept in a coma, 24/7. He only awoke when J’onn was abducted during Infinite Crisis, and placed in another dimension.
And yet J’onn was STILL able to keep him in check. You know what’s even more impressive? He wasn’t even the only one! J’onn was also keeping the original Prometheus, himself no slouch in the will department, in a psychic loop-
You read that right folks. For years, J’onn was keeping two powerful minds dormant, all while still being one of the greatest, most active telepaths DC has to offer. Are you really going to sit there, and try and say that he can’t affect one, feeble mind? One which we know has been breached before? Surely not. To do so would be lunacy!
There isn’t much more to say, really. You’ve seen the sort of mental havoc that a serious J’onn can wreak, and you know that Surfer is vulnerable to such shenanigans. To win this fight, all J’onn has to do is think, and in doing so, any strategy my opponent can offer will be rendered utterly moot. This ladies and gentlemen, is an open and shut case.
Alright, there isn’t much for me to refute here, so I guess I’ll just dive in to keep the ball rolling.
Essentially, none of my opponent’s post is relevant. It offers no strategy as to how he will win this fight, and merely puts forward a bunch of (rather unimpressive) stats. The only one that will have any bearing on this fight is speed, an area in which Surfer has no advantage. I mean, is 3 times the speed of light meant to be impressive? Because J’onn can cover the distance between Mars and the sun in seconds, WHILE dragging along an opponent almost as strong as he is.
*Also note how he is able to dump the ENTIRE population of earth’s mind into his opponent’s beforehand, despite his opponent also being a supreme telepath. Seriously, he’s going to turn Surfer into a mental pumpkin.
For those who don’t know, it takes sunlight precisely 12 minutes and 41 seconds to reach Mars. If we lowball, and say that it took J’onn 20 seconds to reach the sun (Which it clearly didn’t), that puts him at 38 times the speed of light. So, yeah, massively FTL, especially compared to Surfer’s paltry 3.
In terms of reaction times, well, J’onn can tag Wally West, the FASTEST Flash, and potentially the fastest character in comics, even while weakened, after having been on fire for HOURS.
*Note how he also blocks and disarms Wonder Woman, herself a super-fast, super-strong opponent, moments beforehand.
So Surfer isn’t going to be outreacting J’onn on any level. Especially as the fight will be almost entirely in Surfer’s mind. Why entirely, you say? Well, because as we all know, Surfer is very vulnerable to a good, hard pounding.
Which means that a few solid punches from J’onn, in concert with a psychic attack, will be more than enough to put him down for the count. After all, we know J’onn can multi-task in this fashion-
*Note how J’onn’s durability is a source of frustration. Also note that the person he’s mentally combating is the Gray Man, a trans-level Lord of Order.
Hell, when J’onn wants to, he can take on the entire Justice League, and shrug off a cheap shot from Superman himself.
Can you honestly see Surfer doing the same? Restraining Orion, Big Barda and Wonder Woman all at once? No, you can’t, because even in a physical confrontation, J’onn is very much Surfer’s superior, and he doesn’t need a goddamn surf board backing him up.
Alright, well I guess that’s it for now. I’ve proven Surfer is vulnerable to physical attacks, and I’ve proven he’s vulnerable to my mental attacks. That one showing against Moondragon doesn’t negate his history of being mentally infiltrated or dominated, nor does the rather nothing feat of *calming* a planet’s population. J’onn operates on a galactic level, FFS. A planet’s population is nothing to him.
And you know what?
So my opponent seems to rely totally on telepathy because based on his other showings he clear has nothing else going for him. I'm going to address some his showings against Surfer being TPed and then mention why Surfer wins at the end.
Finally there is Strange instance. While Strange did enter his mind Surfer was more than aware and the two talked and Surfer just lets Strange show him everything. He doesn't try fight back. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Bll5-6Jju...cS=s16
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As for how Surfer wins. Well my opponent has shown about 0 durability feats in both his posts. A single planet busting blast is honestly all that is needed for surfer to win, and he can casually produce that. He could probably do it physically to since he was able to take down BRB that way a person who has tanked planet busting attacks before.
Manhunter also doesn't have a good track record against energy attacks. Breach was able to one shot him and he doesn't have planet busting showings. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ rVW8B9jK2...WsWusFhseucE=s0
I am aware MMH has regen but Surfer has means around that. He can simply disperse his atoms. https://imgur.com/a/YGr5vPU
He can also attack MMH's soul and kill him that way. https://imgur.com/a/ydu2k36
Really Surfer has multiple ways of winning. But the basic involving using his superior speed to simply blitz his opponent and then one shot with an energy attack.
This just address your opener I know you showed some speed feats and strength feats in your rebutal which I will address in my closer.
Really not a lot for me to work with here, but I guess I’ll do my best to keep this entertaining.
You’re saying I have nothing to offer but telepathy? Newsflash, I’ve already proven that J’onn is faster and stronger than Surfer, with the durability to shrug off cheap shots from Superman. All of that, in concert with my astounding telepathy, will be more than enough to put you down, especially since you haven’t presented anything approaching a viable strategy of attack.
Now, let’s address this “defence”.
You do realise that virtually none of your scans show what you’re claiming they do? Nothing about that shows the Goddesses’ telepathy to be multi-dimensional in scope. She says that one day it will be, but guess what, J’onn’s already IS. My first set of scans literally showed him dragging Manitou onto the Astral Plain from an entire dimension away, WHILE J’onn was unconscious, and keeping Prometheus under control. On top of that, it took Surfer DAYS to fend off her control, even while she was working her influence on several other heroes. Here, he will be the SOLE focus of a MUCH stronger telepath, who will also be physically kicking his arse for the (short) duration of this fight.
Now, as for this Moondragon debacle, I’m not sure how you think it helps your case. Surfer is floored by a single mindblast, sent by a telepath (a weaker one than J’onn) who is LIGHTYEARS away. All this proves is that J’onn’s unrelenting assault is the certain doom of Surfer, as he won’t even have time to get back to his feet.
I’m not really sure what the Strange scan is meant to prove. Strange is still in his mind, and Surfer is clearly very much not in control, and very vulnerable. It kinds of helps my case, as did the last set of scans, so thanks I guess?
The extra-dimensional beings are another beneficial scan. It shows that Surfer needs to concentrate fully in order to fend off telepathy, even when he’s dealing with a mere fragment (as per the scans) of the telepath’s mind. Again, he won’t have that the opportunity to concentrate as I pound his shiny arse, and considering he’ll be dealing with J’onn’s full and undivided attention (which very few characters can claim) there’s even less hope of him pulling out some miracle resist.
Now, as to your “attacks”. Well, where do I begin?
They are straight up bullshit. I’ve shown J’onn shrugging off cheap shots from Superman and Barda. If you really need more, than here, watch J’onn take an energy explosion better than the man of steel himself.
A blast of 4-dimensional energy catches the League off-guard, and yes, it knocks them all out. Who is closest to the blast, however? J’onn. He stays conscious the longest, and relays every bit of information to the team before finally succumbing. Not only does this show that he’s a tough SOB, it shows that no matter what, J’onn can maintain his telepathic endeavours, so Surfer, even if he SOMEHOW manages to conjure an attack, isn’t guaranteed to save himself. I won’t bother with the BRB scans. I’ve shown that Surfer is a wimp in H2H, and the fact that my opponent is clinging to that singular showing just reinforces the point. He didn’t even put BRB down, FFS. He got a few hits in, and the situation resolved. Here’s what happens when Surfer really tries to fight a Thor-class opponent.
Now, this proves how resilient and capable J’onn is, yet as a final rebuttal to your feeble offence, let me put forward this obvious point: Phasing. Your claim that one energy blast will be enough is laughable, simply because J’onn can phase through any beam. He did it to Prime’s heat vision, and he’ll do it to any Surfer lets off, which will be none, because J’onn will have made him a vegetable.
As for this soul business, your scans even refer to it as an ASTRAL feat. ASTRAL being the realm of the telepath, AKA, J’onn. As my first post shows, J’onn can drag a person onto the astral plain from a dimension away. More than that, J’onn’s mind and soul are so powerful, that the ENTIRE Martian race couldn’t enter the afterlife, until he willingly chose to let them go-
Which means that anyone trying to challenge him that way, well, good luck to them.
So, keeping that in mind, it should be obvious that J’onn is stronger, faster, and far tougher than Surfer will ever be. Any esoteric strategies that my opponent might put forward are irrelevant, as the battle will begin with a telepathic strike so powerful that Surfer is rendered comatose, and even if he SOMEHOW could resist, J’onn is a skilled multi-tasker, and has shown himself capable of a concerted mental and physical assault on many occasions. Surfer has NEVER shown the ability to repel such a fearsome combination, and as such, has no genuine chance at winning this match. He will be a brain-dead statue, one that J’onn will deal with as easily as he dealt with the League, Maxima included.
First of all, thanks for the fun read, it was a lively debate despite of the boring *ss characters you both picked.
General thoughts: Both Martian Mahunter and Silver Surfer are battlezone beasts, so I had hight expectations on how this debate would go. Despite being only vaguely familiar with the Manhunter Martianmind did a decent job using DC's trademark retcons to explain how his character was stronger than years and years of comics showed us. That was random but fun. I'm less impressed by the showings SS was shown to do, it came to your random blasts mostly but it could work for a straightforward case. None of you did outline a clear plan of attack in your original post, but it came clearer during your replies.
Debating: MartianMind did a pretty good job not fully relying in his TP and calling into question the feats that were relevant for his game plan. I was swayed to believe Surfer is not a physical behemoth nor a solid anti-telepath argument. He even questioned his fighting speed, going as to claim that his character was faster, which is wow, a bold claim that went unchallenged. EmperorThanos's went more into the defensive as his claims were challenged more, which imo played into MM's hand, who wanted to enhance the idea he had an advantage here.
Vote: I think that Surfer had the potential to win this battle with the right scans, but his strategy was probably too straightforward and not backed as much as it could. Potentially I can see Norrin bullrushing Martian Manhunter, but he's a character that is bulky and able to multitask, so a more complex strategy was needed to really deal with him in my opinion. As such, Martian_mind wins this round for me. Congratulations!
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Aug 23rd, 2019 03:55 AM
