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The Accused
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Raz
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The Accused

I hope you all saw tonights Panorama programme on BBC1. If you haven't then I suggest you follow this link and check it out for yourself.

You can view the programme (via RealPlayer) here.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2001 03:39 AM
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keokiswahine
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*sigh* I only watched 1/2 of it; it got too painful and depressing. I'll look at the rest later. sad


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2001 05:53 AM
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Raz
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The BBC have an update here.

I hope everyone everyone else was able to watch the film. Its a shame none of you want to comment on this subject.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 12:06 AM
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Ratcat
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Didn't have time to watch yet, but DSL line goes in on Wednesday so I'll ensure I have a look then.

OK, time top change ANOTHER diaper!!! sad

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 12:14 AM
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finti
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Anti Israeli stuff.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 12:36 AM
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Raz
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Don't be so arrogant finti. Its not a nice attitude.

You should get the full picture before making assumptions. mad


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 01:38 AM
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Ushgarak
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This is always a difficult subject; both sides can throw a lot of justified accusations at the other. This sort of thing is always just plain unpleasant in the end.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 02:03 AM
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queeq
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Ah yes, Lebanon. Now that wasn't such a smart move by the Israeli's.

I wonder though, now that Sharon is accused by Belgium for war crimes, shouldn't Arafat receive the same treatment then?


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 12:45 PM
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finti
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I am not arrogant, it was terrible what happened at Shabra and Shatilla, but Hizzbolla and their accomplished like Hamaz are guilty of just as many killed and molested. So both sides are equally to blame in this religious disput. Bothe the jews and the muslims have extreme groups within that will never accept a cease fire agreement. The only thing they belive in is THEIR cause and "good book" Toran or the Koran scriptures. I dont catch all those documentaries as they always seem to be one sided. I dont find them objectivly neutral enough. Always two sides or more to a conflict. I dont butt in on the problem in the middle east just as I dont butt in on the conflict in Northern Ireland.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 02:59 PM
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queeq
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I agree finti, it's extremely complex situation down there in the Middle East and indeed most documentaries or articles are one-sided. I personally see no solution over there.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 03:50 PM
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Dim
Creativity

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That's sad...I think it's even sadder that we find it acceptable to give up..


Unfortunately..I have to pass on the download.. I really need to get DSL.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 06:26 PM
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Ratcat
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I am finding it hard to even bother. I know I should but right now I don't want to worry about an issue that appears to be in someone elses back yard.

Is this bad of me?

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 06:29 PM
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keokiswahine
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Of one thing they have always silently agreed; that there will be no permanent peace, because each agreement is somewhat defective to the other side in some way. sad


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 07:23 PM
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finti
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This is what happens when politics and religion are mixed together. It usually spells BOOOM. sad

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 07:29 PM
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Raz
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I think Hezbollah and all the terrorist groups *should* be tried for war crimes. Just because both sides are commiting crimes against humanity doesn't make the crime neutrel!

This documentery (for all those that actually saw it) isn't concentrating on the middle east process. It was concentrating on what Ariel Sharon did on that day and whether he *could* be tried for war crimes for what he allowed. The documentery WAS balance as it showed opinions from BOTH sides that were there, including IDF soldiers, the Christian militia, Ariel Sharons laywers and advisors and of course the surviving victims.

BTW, the video is for 56k only. But I should have warned you earlier this video is VERY disturbing (shows footage of aftermath), and you will understand what I'm actually talking about once you've watched it.

Oh yes RC, that attitude you are taking is what allowed the holocaust to take place...


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 09:20 PM
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finti
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I think that is to take it a little far RAZ we cant do something about everything. The holocaust was not that enlighted during those days as problems around the world are today. I am of the attitude that we have to clean up our own backyard before we complain about those next door. In the middle east the problem is most of all Jerusalem and there is no way Israel gonna let that town go. It is the holy city for three large religious groups and I dont think the christian community want it to fall in to the hands of the muslims.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 10:10 PM
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Ushgarak
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Raz, you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think disapproval would have stopped that from taking place. They are motivated people, the fanatics on both sides there, and they do not care what others think.

Any talk of war crims trials for EITHER side would totally and utterly annhilate any slim and slender chance of peace in the region; it would just be plain dumb.

It is effectively a war. Very bad things happen in war. This has to be accpeted. Prevention is better than cure, but the mistake here has already been made.

South Afrcia had the best idea. No trials of the criminals there, just a 'Truth and Reconcilliation' commision. And even that gentle aim was beset by anger and resentment on all sides! If they had attempted full trials there... well, it would be a full scale war there by now. Bad enough as it is.

Meanwhile, regarldess of evidence from bith sides presented, th aim of that documentary was to show that Sharon could be indcited for war crimes. This is not necessarily a bad thing to do, but the documentary was biased towards showing that.


Oooh, just saw Finti's comment; guess we posted at the same time... yes, it was a diferent time when this all started, but on the other hand the principle of international mediation is a very good one! In a perfect world we could clean up our own yards first, but I think histroy is shown that this is a process that will NEVER be finished! So perhaps if we can create a world where we can always be helping clear each other up...

Yeah, ok, totally impractical, especially in the Middle East situation, but it is nice to have laudable aims.

[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: Ushgarak ]


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 10:14 PM
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Raz
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So you're suggesting that since caring about whats happening there won't make a difference, we should ignore it and "clean our own backyards" (whatever that means). Our problems don't end up with dead people.

Ushgarak there IS no chance of peace with whats going on at the moment. They are in deadlock and neither side wants to change the position. The Palestinians started the violence because of the occupation, and Israel (Sharon) says they won't even talk until violence is stopped.

Also theres no chance of war in the Middle East as the Palestinians have no effective weapons to defend themselves with (unless you count stones).

The documentery was biased? Hmm...I think it would be pretty hard to claim that Sharon had no knowledge of what the milita would do if they entered the camps (as the US Convoy said).


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 11:44 PM
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Ushgarak
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Raz, the documentary was biased for the simple reason that they set out to prove something. It's not necessarily a criticism, but using that documentary as a balanced view is an error.

Meanwhile, for people that are unarmed the Palestinians kill enough people! How come you aren't talking about Black September and so forth?

If you think there is no chance of peace now, what will happen if you bring recrimination into it will shock you stupid.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jun 19th, 2001 11:54 PM
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Raz
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Yes but the findings of the documentery still stand. Even the ex-Judge said he could be indited.

Anyway the chance of him *actually* being indited is *very* small. Although the anger of the Palestinians towards him makes more sense.


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Old Post Jun 20th, 2001 12:17 AM
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