TORONTO - Toronto residents are feeling "under siege" by gangs that draw their income from drug sales and their inspiration from urban rap music, says an Ipsos-Reid poll released yesterday.
Gun crime and violence has become the most important issue facing the city of Toronto for 55% of the residents who participated in the poll -- up 40 percentage points from a similar survey conducted two years ago.
The degree of concern more than doubles the number of Torontonians who cite gun violence as their primary concern over those who list "garbage" as the most pressing issue facing Toronto.
The findings of the survey, conducted by Ipsos-Reid for the National Post, Global News and CFRB, arrived on a day of several shootings.
Apparently random acts of violence have left nine out of 10 residents of the city, or 87%, believing that "Toronto is becoming more violent compared to five years ago" -- up 21 percentage points from a survey conducted in 2000, when 66% of respondents agreed with the same statement.
And while 74% of Torontonians said they felt safe in 2003 walking alone in their neighbourhood after dark, only 64% feel the same way now, the poll says. The poll found women, at 46%, to be more likely than men, at 25%, to feel unsafe after dark in their neighbourhoods.
"I don't personally feel under siege, although I do have concerns about the increasing number of gun incidents in which people are being killed," said Paul Godfrey, a former member of the Toronto police commission.
"I think you'd have to be living in a vacuum if you didn't realize that what we have here is a spike in the use of guns and young people shooting other young people," added Mr. Godfrey, who is now president and chief executive officer of the Toronto Blue Jays baseball club.
The recent violence, the vast majority of respondents said, is driven by gangs and the drugs they traffic in -- a belief the Toronto police force largely endorses.
"The overwhelming majority of this gun violence that our city has experienced is being perpetuated by people who are involved in gangs," Police Chief Bill Blair said yesterday after hearing the poll results.
Statistically, violent crime rates are down, said Chief Blair, who attributed the increase in concern to the new "callousness" of gunmen who are more likely to pull the trigger in busy public places.
But more than gangs, 63% of the survey's respondents pointed to the "glamorization of gang culture" -- found, some say, in movies and rap music videos that tend to glorify gangsters -- as contributing to the increase in Toronto's gun violence.
Torontonians 55 and over were more likely than younger residents to believe such "glamorization" is an important factor in the city's gun violence.
Recent moves by the Toronto police force to move more patrolling officers into the city's gritty northwest corner, where much of the violence has occurred, reflects the belief of 64% of residents, who would rather see an increase in police presence and stricter penalties than money spent on social programs aimed at fostering alternatives to gang culture among youths.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
I don't think that just because the people who commit this crime listen to the music, means that that the music is at fault. This is much more an example of young gang culture and how changing times means children are maturing faster, and, find a need for material positions, which, many can only seek using violence.
__________________
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." - Holden Caulfield
ME too brother. Not many things i despise more in this world.
thats why i dont listen to it and play my celtic rock loud and proud. It's not rap fans fault for not being able to appreciate real music. constant beats can brainwash anyone after listening to them long enough.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
Yes gun crime does suck, but try and have some geographical knowledge here, hip hop is not what's causing gun crime. The Congo is full of child soldiers and I doubt very much they listen to hip hop. There's gun crime everywhere because of greed not because of a style of music. This is a typical modern society scape goat, it cannot face facts and see that it's society's fault not musicians.
__________________
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." - Holden Caulfield
Oh har har very funny im black you know and I can actually rap, so no you failed.
Of course hip hop is not entirely to blame, but it doesnt help either
Er well you would be suprised I was watching the news where there was this African rapper who was from the Congo who was rapping in front of politicians. Of course hip hop is not entirely to blame, but it doesnt help either when you hear that a group in the Civil War was called the West Side Boys.
Furthermore there is an increase in gun crime in south london and most of the people who are doing it are black.....there is a pattern emerging.
No it would be stupid to say the cause of war in Africa is hip hop, but at the sametime gun crime seems to be growing amongst the balck community in the Uk and other countries. The problem is black people want to emulate these people in rap music and they think its positive.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
It's growing in the UK because of the deprivation these young people are suffering, on council esates etc. They may listen to hip hop and this will be because they can relate to it as it talks of the deprivation they too suffer. These people need money so they use guns to exercise power, it would be alot more plausible that the selling of illegal drugs, car theft and robbery were to blame in the rise in gun crime.
__________________
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." - Holden Caulfield
Everybody has to face deprivation but I dont understand why is it that gun crime is the highest amongst the black youth.
To quote Chris Rock "Theres a civial war going on amongst black people and there are two sides. Theres black people and theres n***** and the n***** have got to go."
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Mar 30th, 2007 at 02:01 PM
I can't watch that at the moment but I will later, my theory as to why it's more common amongst the black youth is that we unfortunately live in a very racist country. Black youths are given little or no chances in employment or education, due to this many of them are concentrated in inner city schools and are forced to turn to either violence, drugs and many other types of crime, in order to prove themselves. I don't know how much of the London shooting news you've been reading up on but recently a white male shot another white male who he'd been bullying for years, he was also a fan of hip hop. Rap music is not exclusively influential to black youths and you'd be a fool to think so.
It's what skinnyman coined as the councilestate of mind that's causing gun crime, not music.
__________________
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." - Holden Caulfield
what exactly did i fail at? and it's not your fault that you have been brainwashed into thinking rap is a form of music. Anyone can spew together words from a thesarus and create a set of beats from a synthesizer and sound board.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
What black people are the only minorities....you wanna blame everything on racism. Look there are lots of black people who are not into gun crime, but the fact of the matter is there are still a significnat number of them who are.
I think every race has its own problems or 'history', but the fact of the matter is that us black people have a n***** problem, period....and all these excuses about racism and poverty dont wash with me. Sure poverty doesnt help but the fact of the matter is its growing fastest amongst black peopel.
White people listen to hip hop.....really??? I didn't know that...thanks.
Well i've already said my piece. I think it would help to analyse what im saying more carefully.
Hey I dont care about that im talking about gun crime.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Lets not turn this into a musical debate, as it concerns something a lot more important than that. People probably don't like your taste in music, so what? Your opinion isn't going to change anyones taste, no matter how compelling and humorous the argument.
__________________
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." - Holden Caulfield
I'm definately not trying to say all black people are into gun crime at all. The fact we have to both agree on is that gun crime is getting out of control, no matter what the reasons we're both striving to make the same point. There are also alot of white people who commit gun crime. the undeniable fact is that the judical system cannot be fully trusted to produce correct statistics, because, we have no clue as to how much gun crime goes undiscovered. This is what sociologists call the dark figure of crime.
__________________
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." - Holden Caulfield
Yeah thats true but this is the thing. I've live in south london so I know what goes on. When you get on the bus and you get two black youth saying such and such got shot then you know guns crime has increased. Forgot about the figures I live in the envinroment. I dont hear other minorities glorify guns like some black people do.
Furthermore its not always poverty. As Asha D (rapper) put it he was from a lower middle class background, some of these kids arent in poverty at all they are just copying rap music...so no the music is to blame as well.
Furthermore I have more chance of being shot because im black.....I mean what the **** you cant even go to Canada cos the smae **** is going on.
yeah really i dont think the root of the problem is music but it does contribute to the problem. I am just upset as a black person because of this problem.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on Mar 30th, 2007 at 02:31 PM
The music isn't to blame. Music doesn't make people shoot guns, people can try and say music was the inspiration to do so, but those people are idiots. It's not the music's fault in any case, it's the idiots' fault for thinking it's ok to copy what they hear on record.
Forget about figures? What? Oh yes, let's ignore facts just because they disprove what you believe.
i'm sorry, i just fail to see the relevance of the statement that started this thread. It is absurd to think that gun crimes are soley contributed to gangsta rap. It is probably a fact that it has in some way inspired or influenced some people into embracing the "street mentality" which challenges impressionable youths to become like the icon on the front of the rap cd. The smae icons that speak about NOTHING other than paranoia, and a singled out state of mind, that everyone is against you and you have to re-up and stay strapped to be on your "game" Gang crimes were around before rap, rap only glorified gang life while giving it an outlet to success.
Truth is, young impressionable minds who feel alienated will find any kind of rebelious outlet to express their tormented and disoriented emotions. It is called falling into the wrong crowd. Gansta rap or not, western society will always have the social ills of youth crimes. Unless the community steps in and gives these youths an alternate way of life. It is up to them to grow and mature on their own and see that their way of life leads nowhere but into a vicious cycle. This i believe is related to natures way of weeding out the weak
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
It's called hip hop, first of all. Rap is what hip hop MCs do, it's not the name of the genre.
Two; You said it. Young impressionable minds. It's not the music's fault. Gangsta orientated hip hop came after, original hip hop wasn't anything to do with glorifying crime. I suggest you brush up on the ol' research.
KMC Community Forums
Its everywhere!!!!!!
Mar 30th, 2007 01:20 PM
