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WASHINGTON - In a stinging defeat for gun-control, the U.S. Congress has voted to allow people to carry loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges.

The House approved the measure, 279-147, on Wednesday, one day after the Senate acted. A total of 105 Democrats in the House joined 174 Republicans in supporting the gun measure, which essentially restores a Bush administration policy that allowed loaded guns in national parks for two months earlier this year.

A total of 105 Democrats in the House joined 174 Republicans in supporting the gun measure, which essentially restores a Bush administration policy that briefly allowed loaded guns in national parks earlier this year. The measure, which is included in a bill imposing new restrictions on credit card companies, allows licensed gun owners to bring firearms into national parks and wildlife refuges as long as they are allowed by state law.

"The NRA is basically taking over the House and Senate," said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., a leading gun-control supporter. "If the NRA wins, the American people are going to be the ones who lose."

Rep. Doc Hastings, R-Wash., disputed that.

"The fact is American gun owners are simply citizens who want to exercise their Second Amendment rights without running into confusing red tape," Hastings said.

Hastings and other Republicans said the bill merely aligns national parks and wildlife refuges with regulations governing the national forests and property controlled by the Bureau of Land Management.

GOP says current policy outdated
The GOP called the current policy outdated and confusing to those who visit public lands, noting that merely traveling from state-owned parks to national parks meant some visitors were violating the law.

A majority of Democrats in both the House and Senate opposed the gun measure, but enough Democrats voted for the bill that the final tally in both chambers was not close.

Democratic leaders decided not to remove the gun provision after Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., was able to insert it into a popular bill imposing new restrictions on credit card companies. Lawmakers and aides said there was not enough time to send the bill to a House-Senate conference committee — where it could be removed without a vote — and still get it to President Barack Obama by Memorial Day as he has requested.

"There's a lot of momentum to get this done," said Rep. Raul Grijalva, R-Ariz.

Grijalva, chairman of national parks subcommittee, opposed the gun measure, but said the "sense of urgency from the White House" to get the credit card bill approved, combined with the NRA's clout, were impossible to overcome.

Bryan Faehner, associate director of the National Parks Conservation Association, which has fought the gun rule in court, blamed Obama and Democratic leaders such as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer.

"If they wanted to stop this, it seems like they can," Faehner said before the House vote. "It comes down to whether or not they are willing to keep parks safe for the American people or kowtow to special interests like the gun groups."

NRA says nobody threatened over vote
Chris W. Cox, chief lobbyist for the NRA, said the group pushed for the gun measure but did not threaten anyone over the vote.

"Obviously this is an issue that affects our membership," Cox said. But to claim the NRA sets the agenda in Congress "misrepresents the role that NRA plays in the process, he said.

Cox also disputed a claim by the Humane Society of the United States that the gun bill would lead to an increase in wildlife poaching in national parks.

"The NRA is opposed to poaching and always has been," he said. "We've supported enhanced penalties for illegal activities including poaching. The Humane Society has zero credibility when to comes to Second Amendment rights of law-abiding gun owners."

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Originally posted by inimalist
Are shootings in national parks really a major issue?

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Originally posted by inimalist
weird that so many people thought it was "urgent" to change the law though

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
america is getting stupider by the minute

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
the second ammendment only makes sense in a near anarchist state. america was that in its foundation. but not so much the last century. the second ammendment has no role in today's america, nor should it.

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Originally posted by dadudemon
There is not reason to go deer hunting with a RPG Launcher.

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Originally posted by dadudemon
This is where I disagree. Sure, the "original intent" is los slightly in its application today, but it is still useful.


I am in agreement with how it is run today.



There is not reason to go deer hunting with a RPG Launcher.


There's no reason to defend yourself with a gatling gun...unless you're in a gang.



But, certainly knowing that if pulling a gun on someone to take their money, which gun was obtained illegally, and getting your ass pumped full of lead, is certainly a better choice than getting a knife pulled on you...slashed...and then the perp runs away before other's get the opportunity to help you.


I'm all for as many rights as possible, within reason.









No matter what, guns will be obtained illegally. The whole idea of "it's safer without guns" has been proven wrong and right. Go with the liberal application of the law and stick with it.


When someone can show me that gun control has reduced the amount of violent crime, before and after...then I'll concede and side with "no guns". Until the, I'll err on the side of keeping guns in the hand of my people.

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
the "whole idea" has never even been implemented much less allowed to give results. owing to just how many privately owned firearms there have always been in america.

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
when sum1 can show me that HAVING legals guns = protection of life and property from those who have illegal guns, then maybe ill think about considering the validity of the second ammendment, fact is, it hasnt been owing to {with the exclusion of all considerations} the rarity of having a gun at HAND at the exact moment sum1 with an illegal pulls it on you, then going on to you being able to HANDLE it effectively enough to incapacitate the attacker in enough time that he or she is not able to shoot and wound you, much less the entire idea of criminals being AFRAID of attacking people for the general fear of guns{which is compareable to "the death penalty scares criminals into avoiding such crimes" which has been proven wrog}

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Originally posted by leonheartmm
if it is for personal SENSE of security than non lethal air tasers and non lethal guns are just as if not more effective than an average handgun.

no justification for owning firearms.

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Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
I have a conceal carry permit and own several assult rifles among several other firearms, I own 16 guns in all.

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Originally posted by dadudemon
No matter what, guns will be obtained illegally. The whole idea of "it's safer without guns" has been proven wrong and right.

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Originally posted by lil bitchiness
So you're planning an invasion...or...?

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Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Well, I am a life member of the NRA. I support the right to own small arms with almost no restrictions. I have a conceal carry permit and own several assult rifles among several other firearms, I own 16 guns in all.

Having said that I am opposed to firearms being allowed in national parks and wildlife refuges. I am also opposed to private vehicles being allowed in many of the parks as well.
The amount of wilderness area left in the world is small and getting smaller by the day. We should protect what is left, even at the expense of individual freedoms.

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Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
why the HELL do you own 16 guns?