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ontological paradox
Started by: Colossus-Big C

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Colossus-Big C
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ontological paradox

can it be avoided? when going to change the past?

examples:

In the 2008 television miniseries The Andromeda Strain, the aforementioned disease is sent back in time via a wormhole by the citizens of future Earth, who cannot stop the disease because a required bacterium has gone extinct and only exists in the past. Scientists in the past manage to utilize this bacteria and kill the virus, but a single sample is saved and stored in the International Space Station at the series' end. It is implied that this sample is the cause of a viral outbreak on the future Earth, causing its citizens to once again send the virus back and hope that it can be destroyed in the past. This creates a further paradox due to the fact that the disease seems to have no origin and only exists in the past because it was sent from the future, whose citizens kept a sample from the past and then sent it back again, creating a never-ending loop.


In the Family Guy episode "Meet the Quagmires", Peter travels back in time to his senior year of high school. At the prom, Brian sings Rick Astley's hit 1987 single "Never Gonna Give You Up", creating an ontological paradox as it serves as Astley's actual inspiration for the tune.


On his 30th birthday, a man who wishes to build a time machine is visited by a future version of himself. This future self explains to him that he should not worry about designing the time machine, as he has done it in the future. The man receives the schematics from his future self and starts building the time machine. Time passes until he finally completes the time machine. He then uses it to travel back in time to his 30th birthday, where he gives the schematics to his past self, closing the loop. Of course, the schematics must have come from somewhere.


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Last edited by Colossus-Big C on Mar 28th, 2010 at 11:55 PM

Old Post Mar 28th, 2010 11:42 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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Re: ontological paradox

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
can it be avoided? when going to change the past?


Sure, always follow a space-like curve when time traveling.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 12:05 AM
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Kinneary
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Situations such as those aren't real. It's the same wordplay of impossible situations that constitutes questions such as, "If God can do anything, he should be able to create a boulder so heavy that even he cannot lift it."

And since they're not real they have no answer, as they're nonsense to begin with.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 12:13 AM
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Dark Riddick
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the quantum theory of multiple realities is that time travel simply takes you to a parallel reality...
'
if you travel to the past then from the moment u alter something it is no longer ur reality but another one u entered into which nothing you do can effect you directly..

basically if u do something that would cause you to cease to exist then only in that reality is altered but you are not since that is not ur native reality and nothing you do can alter your own past..

that virus basically came from another reality and when it was sent to the past it simply repeated the same cause and effect as its home reality.

here this guy can explain it better then me.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 01:03 AM
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Symmetric Chaos
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kinneary
And since they're not real they have no answer, as they're nonsense to begin with.


Many imaginary things have solutions. You simply must establish a system of rules that those fictional things operate under.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 01:57 AM
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Dark Riddick
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my post sounded cooler and made me sound smart.. smart


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 02:01 AM
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Bicnarok
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You canīt travel back in time, because time in that sense doesnīt exist. What happened has happened and will never happen again, only the experience has been recorded in the Akasha. This can be re experienced.

Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 11:39 AM
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Shakyamunison
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Re: Re: ontological paradox

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Sure, always follow a space-like curve when time traveling.


Is that a space-like curve? I thought it was a time-like curve. I do get two confused at times.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 02:39 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the quantum theory of multiple realities is that time travel simply takes you to a parallel reality...
'
if you travel to the past then from the moment u alter something it is no longer ur reality but another one u entered into which nothing you do can effect you directly..

basically if u do something that would cause you to cease to exist then only in that reality is altered but you are not since that is not ur native reality and nothing you do can alter your own past..

that virus basically came from another reality and when it was sent to the past it simply repeated the same cause and effect as its home reality.

here this guy can explain it better then me.




lol


You beat me to it.


Also, Prof. Kaku is awesome. I could listen to him all day.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 02:39 PM
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Dark Riddick
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bicnarok
You canīt travel back in time, because time in that sense doesnīt exist. What happened has happened and will never happen again, only the experience has been recorded in the Akasha. This can be re experienced.
fail.

time does exist and time travel is possible, its altering it that is the problem. no expression

also getting sufficient energy source.


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Last edited by Dark Riddick on Mar 29th, 2010 at 03:33 PM

Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 03:25 PM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
time does exist and time travel is possible


/fact


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 03:30 PM
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Dark Riddick
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i think they have bn sending signals or certain energy to the future or past..

they have a very crude laser light space bending technology.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 03:38 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
fail.

time does exist and time travel is possible, its altering it that is the problem. no expression


However, there are two ways of looking at time: 1. the comparison of clocks (like the movement of planets), and 2. a location in space-time, like I will meet you at the coffee house A-longitude, B-latitude, C-elevation and D-time. However, the two are not interchangeable. The first way of looking at time is a reflection of time travel into the future, while the second one is a physical location in a Newtonian framework. Many people get the two confused and make statements like there is no past or future. That is true for the Newtonian framework aspect of space-time, but not true when talking about comparison of clocks.

(I recently finished the book From Eternity to Here, and the author went into great detail on this topic. Hopefully I got it right.)


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 03:43 PM
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Dark Riddick
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i think this is the easiest question to answer. i mean this is only the main topic in many comic book companies a 8 yr old should be able to stumble onto the truth or get a prevailing theory on the subject.

but, shaky i guess ur right if we want to view it that way and each person have their own individual definition of time.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 03:48 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i think this is the easiest question to answer. i mean this is only the main topic in many comic book companies a 8 yr old should be able to stumble onto the truth or get a prevailing theory on the subject.

but, shaky i guess ur right if we want to view it that way and each person have their own individual definition of time.


You should read From Eternity to Here. I got the book because I wanted more then an 8 yr old's understanding of time.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 03:51 PM
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Dark Riddick
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You should read From Eternity to Here. I got the book because I wanted more then an 8 yr old's understanding of time.
fine i will read it. but, you have to read hyperspace by michio kaku


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 03:58 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
fine i will read it. but, you have to read hyperspace by michio kaku


I will check it out... I really getting into pop physic books right now.

I just looked it up. It is now on my list: I have Antimatter, then Nothing by Frank Close to read first.


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Last edited by Shakyamunison on Mar 29th, 2010 at 04:05 PM

Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 04:01 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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Re: Re: Re: ontological paradox

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is that a space-like curve? I thought it was a time-like curve. I do get two confused at times.


My mistake. You can use a space-like curve to break FTL without creating a paradox, but because of that you won't technically be time traveling.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 04:07 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
time does exist and time travel is possible
My guess is, neither are going to end up like anything we are currently imagining.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 05:23 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
My guess is, neither are going to end up like anything we are currently imagining.
i am imagining a Diablo sport car bright yellow modified with a flux capacitor and hover modified.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2010 06:28 PM
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