Gender: Male Location: United States BROOKLYN BABY
Did God create the universe??
I just watched a episode of Curiosity on the discovery channel. Stephen Hawkins a cosmologist, was giving his thoughts on God not existing. He based his theory on modern day science. The conclusion that he came up with was that the universe started from nothing. So everything within the universe, even down to our perfect condition planet which supports an abundance of life is all just a coincidence. He also said if there's not a god then the chances of life after death is slim to none. KMC what's your take on the matter?
Gender: Male Location: United States BROOKLYN BABY
I just find that hard to believe that everything was made from nothing. There's a cause for every action. I don't believe God is what man makes him, she, or it out to be, but I do believe that there's a force within the universe that drives us.
Mainstream Christian belief holds that God created the Universe ex nihilo.
So the issue isn't that a Christian doesn't believe that something can come from nothing, the issue is that a mainstream Christian doesn't believe that something can come from nothing without some kind of intelligent design/initiative of God.
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to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Gender: Male Location: United States BROOKLYN BABY
I wouldn't consider myself a Christian or a main stream Christian. Religion it self is a man made mechanism infuse to produce order, fear and sanctuary, and in a lot of cases confusion as well.
I posit that not only did God create the universe, he also created the rules which caused the universe to be created.
People forget that the "created itself" was created due to a set of rules. Those rules were God's actual creation.
So I have two ideas:
God directly created the original singularity that burst into our universe.
God created all the rules that resulted in the universe coming from nothing.
The result is the same: God created the universe.
It's difficult for me to intellectually accept that "gravity" is to blame for the universe when the concept of "gravity" is not even known until very brief moments AFTER the universe burst into existence. Making a sweeping conclusion that gravity is to blame is a bit strange and definitely not factual. We actually have no idea if a concept of gravity existed before the explosion. Physics (if you even want to call it that) would be so different that we really won't have a way to comprehend it. In my opinion, that's waaaaaaay more freaky or mind boggling than thinking about an after life or pleasing the creating God.
I guess you could label me as a pragmatic atheist...but a practicing theist. I'm going through the motions of "theism" but not wholly convinced of either way.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Sep 17th, 2011 at 05:43 PM
I'll answer with another question: Does it really matter?
Like the Empire State Building was designed by the firm Shreve, Lamb and Harmon which is a kind of intresting thing to know but it doesn't alter my life (and I doubt it would alter my life even if I worked there).
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Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
Apathetic agnosticism is a very underrated point of view.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
And you can either use science to find out what they are and how they act (if done correctly you'll find science works 100% of the time) and you'll have a greater understanding of how we came to be.
To say you watched Hawkins, I doubt you were paying much attention since he usually explains what he's talking about.
Edit: By saying you can't understand how perfection came from coincidence sounds like a strawman. Define perfection, define coincidence. Then we might get somewhere.
Obviously I don't think something can come from nothing. Nothing produces nothing. Unless you want to define "nothing" as something other than nothing.
I once heard an argument that the universe and all of us were just rearranged particles of nothing.
Don't a lot of these arguments presume that there was ever a nothing for reality to spring from?
If we were to take Sir Roger Penrose's Big Bounce theory as fact then the Universe rather than being a finite event where from nothing sprung everything as in the Big Bang is actually just one part of an infinite cycle of bangs and crunches.
__________________
“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
Gender: Male Location: United States BROOKLYN BABY
I watched, paid attention and understood what he was saying, but I myself as well as countless others on this planet have been through things on a spiritual level that Hawkins theory could not explain. He also said that because he does not believe that there's a God, that life after death possibly does not exist. He probably gave up on God years ago since he's been spending his life frozen and bounded to a wheel chair, but he can only speak for himself. I personally believe, based on my life experiences, not what someone told me. That there's a force beyond the comprehension of the human mind. What I do know for certain is, we will all get our chance to find out the answer to these theories once our time here expires.
Well, we are all atoms, and atoms mostly contain nothing, so that might be what you heard.
We all came from a rapid expansion 14 billion years ago; shortly after a lot of hydrogen reacted with itself, until eventually stars formed creating other elements where more reactions occurred eventually creating the universe as it stands now.
I don't know what happened before the big bang, some speculate an implosion, others think other things.
The beauty of science is that it uses what we already know to absolutely happen to work out what must have happened (dubbed deductive reasoning) or it observes what happens then works out why it happens thus knowing new things that absolutely happen (dubbed inductive reasoning).
The alternative is of course using whatever ideas or stories trigger the chemicals in your brain to make you feel satisfied to think what happened (sometimes dubbed religion).
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Sep 17th, 2011 04:45 PM
