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My problem with "science debates"
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cdtm
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My problem with "science debates"

https://simplystatistics.org/2015/0...orting-science/

quote:
In contrast, most science related media reports that grab the public’s attention fall into three categories:

The exaggerated big discovery: Recent examples include the discovery of the bubonic plague in the NYC subway, liquid water in mars, and the infidelity gene.
Over-promising: These try to explain a complicated basic science finding and, in the case of biomedical research, then speculate without much explanation that the finding will ”lead to a deeper understanding of diseases and new ways to treat or cure them”.
Science is broken: These tend to report an anecdote about an allegedly corrupt scientist, maybe cite the “Why Most Published Research Findings are False” paper, and then extrapolate speculatively.



quote:
In my estimation, despite the attention grabbing headlines, the great majority of the subject matter included in these reports will not have an impact on our lives and will not even make it into scientific textbooks. So does science still have anything to offer? Reports of the third category have even scientists particularly worried. I, however, remain optimistic. First, I do not see any empirical evidence showing that the negative effects of the lack of reproducibility are worse now than 50 years ago. Furthermore, although not widely reported in the lay press, I continue to see bodies of work built by several scientists over several years or decades with much promise of leading to tangible improvements to our quality of life. Recent advances that I am excited about include insulators, PD-1 pathway inhibitors, clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats, advances in solar energy technology, and prosthetic robotics.

However, there is one general aspect of science that I do believe has become worse. Specifically, it’s a shift in how much scientists jockey for media attention, even if it’s short-lived. Instead of striving for having a sustained impact on our field, which may take decades to achieve, an increasing number of scientists seem to be placing more value on appearing in the New York Times, giving a Ted Talk or having a blog or tweet go viral. As a consequence, too many of us end up working on superficial short term challenges that, with the help of a professionally crafted press release, may result in an attention grabbing media report. NB: I fully support science communication efforts, but not when the primary purpose is garnering attention, rather than educating.

My concern spills over to funding agencies and philanthropic organizations as well. Consider the following two options. Option 1: be the funding agency representative tasked with organizing a big science project with a well-oiled PR machine. Option 2: be the funding agency representative in charge of several small projects, one of which may with low, but non-negligible, probability result in a Nobel Prize 30 years down the road. In the current environment, I see a preference for option 1.

I am also concerned about how this atmosphere may negatively affect societal improvements within science. Publicly shaming transgressors on Twitter or expressing one’s outrage on a blog post can garner many social media clicks. However, these may have a smaller positive impact than mundane activities such as serving on a committee that, after several months of meetings, implements incremental, yet positive, changes. Time and energy spent on trying to increase internet clicks is time and energy we don’t spend on the tedious administrative activities that are needed to actually affect change.

Because so many of the scientists that thrive in this atmosphere of short-lived media reports are disproportionately rewarded, I imagine investigators starting their careers feel some pressure to garner some media attention of their own. Furthermore, their view of how they are evaluated may be highly biased because evaluators that ignore media reports and focus more on the specifics of the scientific content, tend to be less visible. So if you want to spend your academic career slowly building a body of work with the hopes of being appreciated decades from now, you should not think that it is hopeless based on what is perhaps, a distorted view of how we are currently being evaluated.



tl:dr breakdown: Most of us get our "talking points" from some media outlet. Media generally put priorty on getting people to read/buy their shit, and so will often snip/distort/spin a story for us idiot laymen.

And that media filtered garbage is what often gets discussed. The scientists sure aren't stepping up and saying "Hey, that's not what I told the New York Times/Fox News".

And those scientists who DO speak, are usually media whoring themselves to sell books.

Let.me try an example of what I'm talking about : You know how shareholder value came to become the ONLY purpose of a publically held business? How nothing else matters but returning value to investors?

Yeah, the guy who invented the concept said they took it too far. But the media, pr firms, talk show people, publicity hounds ect all went with the extreme option of "Shareholders ONLY" because it caught peoples interest. Nobody tried to set the record straight.. No one cared.

And that's how "The machine" works. It's all just turning honest science into "Rich Dad/Poor Dad" publicity for public consumption.

That's what we all "debate" usually (Unless you're a real scientist and talking about your field, or follow peer reviewed journals and know how to read them. But if you were, would you be debating on Twitter?)


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What CDTM believes;

Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.

Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 01:57 AM
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Beniboybling
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i am a real peer reviewed scientist and I take offence.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 02:01 AM
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riv6672
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You mean 'offense'.

'Offence' is a breach of a law or rule; an illegal act.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 03:16 AM
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Bashar Teg
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nah fam they're both correct.
http://grammarist.com/spelling/offence-offense/

with that said, i prefer 'offense'.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 03:33 AM
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ArtificialGlory
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Grammar nazis offencerise me.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 03:35 AM
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thumb up


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 10:29 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
nah fam they're both correct.
http://grammarist.com/spelling/offence-offense/

with that said, i prefer 'offense'.


#seniormoments


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 04:17 PM
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Henry_Pym
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I just generally dislike appeals to authority, because authority are people. It's like wacky these days to think a new study on _____ could be flawed or wrong.

Kinda off the topic, but always look at who is putting forward and promoting new science.

Old Post Jun 29th, 2017 04:45 PM
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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 07:35 AM
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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 04:36 PM
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Surtur
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They should make these bracelets that say "I <3 science". They would probably sell like hot cakes.


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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 05:58 PM
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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 05:59 PM
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Beniboybling
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quote:
Speaking of science, thoughts?

'Bombshell' climate-change study could totally dismantle the claim humans are causing global warming
I would think that if conservatives are so suddenly interested in what scientists are saying they should read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ser-to-pristine


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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 06:29 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would think that if conservatives are so suddenly interested in what scientists are saying they should read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ser-to-pristine


I would think this goes both ways and that liberals would be interested in what scientists are saying about these issues that might contradict their own narratives.


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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 07:10 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would think that if conservatives are so suddenly interested in what scientists are saying they should read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ser-to-pristine

Hmm.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...e/#7e029ea4474e

http://www.drroyspencer.com/global-...ral-or-manmade/

---

Do you think global warming will continue for indefinite period? Do you rule out natural causes of global warming with full confidence? Do you rule out the possibility of "natural developments" to halt it at some point? Do you think we control this planet and its mechanisms?

Remember the "ozone hole" story?

Ozone hole expands every year above Antarctica during Summer and shrinks during Winter - this now seems to be a natural construct in large part.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...d-it-180957775/

However....

Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 07:28 PM
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Beniboybling
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I would think this goes both ways and that liberals would be interested in what scientists are saying about these issues that might contradict their own narratives.
Not a narrative darling, but a study, backed up by fifteen years of research data. For the moment I am sticking with that as opposed to one random paper.


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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 07:33 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not a narrative darling, but a study, backed up by fifteen years of research data. For the moment I am sticking with that as opposed to one random paper.

My dear, it takes a single study to invalidate a well-established research over the course of years. Not every scientist is politically motivated or into narrative-building.

The "ozone hole" (scare) story is a good example of politics and narrative-building effort in regards to environment and climatic conditions.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jul 10th, 2017 at 07:42 PM

Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 07:35 PM
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Beniboybling
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Right, well I'll wait for that day. Not holding my breath though. sick


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Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 07:41 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, well I'll wait for that day. Not holding my breath though. sick

Sure.

The "ozone hole" puzzle is almost solved.

Global warming is next. Some scientists are already skeptical.

Interesting studies:

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/11101.full.pdf
https://www.nature.com/nature/journ...l/391141a0.html
http://www.ces.fau.edu/nasa/module-4/causes-2.php

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Jul 10th, 2017 at 07:51 PM

Old Post Jul 10th, 2017 07:44 PM
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