KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » US Supreme Pizza Part II: Bake a Cake

US Supreme Pizza Part II: Bake a Cake
Started by: Emperordmb

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (23): [1] 2 3 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Emperordmb
LSDMB

Gender: Male
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan

US Supreme Pizza Part II: Bake a Cake

Tomorrow the US Supreme Court will hear arguments regarding the Christian baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

Here's an excerpt from a Huffington post article regarding this that illustrates the two opposing sides of the issue:

The U.S. Supreme Court is scheduled to hear oral arguments on Tuesday in a case that could have huge ramifications for freedom of speech and protections against discrimination. But it all began with a same-sex couple who just wanted a special wedding cake.

In 2012, Masterpiece Cakeshop owner Jack Phillips pointed to his conservative Christian beliefs in refusing to make a custom wedding cake for Colorado couple Charlie Craig and David Mullins.

Phillips argues that when he designs his custom cakes, he is an artist and that he can’t be forced to use his artistic expression to send a message he finds religiously objectionable ― in this case, that any marriage other than one between a man and a woman should be celebrated. His lawyers say it is a matter of free speech.

The Trump administration has taken up the baker’s cause. “Forcing Phillips to create expression for and participate in a ceremony that violates his sincerely held religious beliefs invades his First Amendment rights,” the Justice Department wrote in an amicus brief filed in September.

But in refusing to make Craig and Mullins a custom cake, Phillips violated Colorado anti-discrimination law that prohibits businesses from denying services to people based on sexual orientation, among other factors. The Colorado Civil Rights Commission ruled against him in May 2014.

Several court decisions later, the case has reached the Supreme Court ― with the scope of free speech and anti-discrimination protections on the line.

The implications of Phillips’ claim that he should be able to deny the couple services based on his free speech rights as a Christian are “staggering,” American Civil Liberties Union attorneys representing Craig and Mullins wrote in a brief filed last year.

“People hold religious beliefs about a wide variety of things, including racial and
religious segregation and the role of women in society,” the ACLU lawyers wrote. “If religious motivation exempted businesses from anti-discrimination laws, government would be powerless to protect all Americans from the harms of invidious discrimination.”


So there are two conflicting points of principles here, anti-discrimination, and the first amendment rights of freedom of expression and freedom of religion.

What are your thoughts on which way SCOTUS will rule, and how do you think they should rule on this case? Why do you feel this way?


__________________

“I am Darth Umbravon, and I am the darkness, I am the Shadow of the Sith!”

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 02:29 AM
Emperordmb is online now! Click here to Send Emperordmb a Private Message Find more posts by Emperordmb Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

I don't think he will win, but I also don't think he should be forced to do this either. There are other bakeries to go to.

At times it is hard to take the hysteria over this seriously. I was reading an article earlier today about this and the mother of one of the gay guys says she was with her son in the immediate aftermath of this event and he began crying and shaking.


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 02:47 AM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Silent Master
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Jack Phillips is a moron

/end thread.


__________________
posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 03:00 AM
Silent Master is currently offline Click here to Send Silent Master a Private Message Find more posts by Silent Master Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Emperordmb
LSDMB

Gender: Male
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I was reading an article earlier today about this and the mother of one of the gay guys says she was with her son in the immediate aftermath of this event and he began crying and shaking.

LMFAO seriously?! What a joke kek


__________________

“I am Darth Umbravon, and I am the darkness, I am the Shadow of the Sith!”

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 03:17 AM
Emperordmb is online now! Click here to Send Emperordmb a Private Message Find more posts by Emperordmb Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
dadudemon
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Bacta Tank.

Triple A title! haha


But, yes, some are getting tired of Judicial Activism from our Supreme Court and they feel that they are not "doing things correctly."


I think business owners should be able to turn away people that they disagree with and it be protected under the 1st Amendment. Just the same as I think people should get to horribly review that business if they turn away gays and let the public vote to not shop at that business.

And if they don't go out of business, looks like people either don't care or support that position.


Let me give an example because I don't like hypocrites:

I don't buy Tyson foods because of how poorly they treat their animals. I am not be a vegan but I'm close to being an animal loving, tree hugging hippy. So companies that have rubbed me the wrong way, especially when it comes to the treatment of animals, don't get my dollars.

FYI, Lenny and Larry's cookies are made with high standards and if you're vegan, they are good sources of protein:

quote:
Today Lenny & Larry's The Complete Cookie® forms the foundation of a whole new category of food: Baked Nutrition®. Vegan, Kosher, and Non-GMO – using only the finest ingredients – Lenny & Larry's The Complete Cookie® contains our secretly formulated blend of vegetable protein. No animal stuff in our cookies!



Other than their non-GMO stance (which I think it ignorant), I love their products and I don't feel bad eating them because they are a US company and they don't hurt animals unnecessarily to make their food.


__________________

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 05:49 AM
dadudemon is currently offline Click here to Send dadudemon a Private Message Find more posts by dadudemon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
LMFAO seriously?! What a joke kek


I'd daresay maybe someone isn't emotionally mature enough to get married if being denied a wedding cake causes them to break down in tears.

That is the way a child reacts. I bet this person has a shitload of participation trophies at home.


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Last edited by Surtur on Dec 5th, 2017 at 04:03 PM

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:01 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scribble
Zombie

Gender: Male
Location: Compound

Love thy neighbour, unless they're gay, I guess


__________________


a zombie is a small yellow flower
cinematography by thimios bakatakis

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:05 PM
Scribble is currently offline Click here to Send Scribble a Private Message Find more posts by Scribble Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Love thy neighbour, unless they're gay, I guess


The dude is citing religion.

Can I ask a muslim baker for a Muhammad cake? Do not respond with "no because it is against their religion" lol. Their offense? Irrelevant.


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Last edited by Surtur on Dec 5th, 2017 at 04:10 PM

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:08 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Triple A title! haha


But, yes, some are getting tired of Judicial Activism from our Supreme Court and they feel that they are not "doing things correctly."


I think business owners should be able to turn away people that they disagree with and it be protected under the 1st Amendment. Just the same as I think people should get to horribly review that business if they turn away gays and let the public vote to not shop at that business.

And if they don't go out of business, looks like people either don't care or support that position.


Let me give an example because I don't like hypocrites:

I don't buy Tyson foods because of how poorly they treat their animals. I am not be a vegan but I'm close to being an animal loving, tree hugging hippy. So companies that have rubbed me the wrong way, especially when it comes to the treatment of animals, don't get my dollars.

FYI, Lenny and Larry's cookies are made with high standards and if you're vegan, they are good sources of protein:




Other than their non-GMO stance (which I think it ignorant), I love their products and I don't feel bad eating them because they are a US company and they don't hurt animals unnecessarily to make their food.


Weird thing is, the guy was willing to sacrifice business. I read he just stopped doing wedding cakes. Which not only did he apparently enjoy doing, but they made up 40% of his business.

So I dunno, true bigots rarely seem willing to lose out on shitloads of cash. Unless they already have plenty of money.

He's essentially been f*cked over because he doesn't wanna be forced to make a cake for a gay wedding lol. Victory...I guess? A livelihood might be destroyed, but f*ck it they had to virtue signal.

I can almost guarantee these people(one of whom cried over this) have busted out cliches like "it's about the principle, not the cake".

PS: It's about the cake lol.


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Last edited by Surtur on Dec 5th, 2017 at 04:15 PM

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:13 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scribble
Zombie

Gender: Male
Location: Compound

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
The dude is citing religion.

Can I ask a muslim baker for a Muhammad cake? Do not respond with "no because it is against their religion" lol. Their offense? Irrelevant.
Not really, the religion thing would be fair enough in most circumstances, like a Muhammed cake would be against one of their core beliefs. It'd be like asking a Christian to make a Satan cake or something, in which case, fair enough, I wouldn't expect them to make that cake. This 'Christian' is citing such a tiny part of his religion whilst ignoring the larger, core beliefs. Just pointing out the ridiculous hypocrisy involved.


__________________


a zombie is a small yellow flower
cinematography by thimios bakatakis

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:22 PM
Scribble is currently offline Click here to Send Scribble a Private Message Find more posts by Scribble Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Not really, the religion thing would be fair enough in most circumstances, like a Muhammed cake would be against one of their core beliefs. It'd be like asking a Christian to make a Satan cake or something, in which case, fair enough, I wouldn't expect them to make that cake. This 'Christian' is citing such a tiny part of his religion whilst ignoring the larger, core beliefs. Just pointing out the ridiculous hypocrisy involved.


They are against gay marriage and they do not wanna make a custom cake for a gay marriage lol. Seems simple enough to me.

Also, muslims are not big fans of gays. I wonder if there would be an outcry if a Muslim didn't wanna bake a cake because they were gay?

Lol who am I kidding? There wouldn't be anywhere near as big an outcry.


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:24 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scribble
Zombie

Gender: Male
Location: Compound

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
They are against gay marriage and they do not wanna make a custom cake for a gay marriage lol. Seems simple enough to me.

Also, muslims are not big fans of gays. I wonder if there would be an outcry if a Muslim didn't wanna bake a cake because they were gay?

Lol who am I kidding? There wouldn't be anywhere near as big an outcry.
They are meant to treat all people as equals and let God judge in the afterlife. They are meant to love thy neighbour, and do to others as they would have done to them. That's Christianity. Or, it's supposed to be, anyway. So the religious argument, in their case, is flimsy at best. I think their God will forgive them for baking a gay cake, as it would be in keeping with the more important rules and actual commandments, as opposed to the other less structurally important rules such as "gaybad".


__________________


a zombie is a small yellow flower
cinematography by thimios bakatakis

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:27 PM
Scribble is currently offline Click here to Send Scribble a Private Message Find more posts by Scribble Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
They are meant to treat all people as equals and let God judge in the afterlife. They are meant to love thy neighbour, and do to others as they would have done to them. That's Christianity. Or, it's supposed to be, anyway. So the religious argument, in their case, is flimsy at best. I think their God will forgive them for baking a gay cake, as it would be in keeping with the more important rules and actual commandments, as opposed to the other less structurally important rules such as "gaybad".


God would forgive them for baking a cake? And no doubt Allah would forgive them for drawing Muhammad....lol. Worst case scenario they just behead an infidel.


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:30 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scribble
Zombie

Gender: Male
Location: Compound

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
God would forgive them for baking a cake? And no doubt Allah would forgive them for drawing Muhammad....lol. Worst case scenario they just behead an infidel.
Why do you keep talking about Muslims? Idgi, are there any Muslims even involved in this scenario? What does a potential yet entirely unfounded and fictional double-standard scenario have to do with this real-life scenario that is literally happening in the real world right now?


__________________


a zombie is a small yellow flower
cinematography by thimios bakatakis

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:33 PM
Scribble is currently offline Click here to Send Scribble a Private Message Find more posts by Scribble Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Why do you keep talking about Muslims? Idgi, are there any Muslims even involved in this scenario? What does a potential yet entirely unfounded and fictional double-standard scenario have to do with this real-life scenario that is literally happening in the real world right now?


Cuz I'm tired of religious double standards in this country. You'd think in a majority christian country the double standard would exist the other way around, but nope lol.


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:40 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
dadudemon
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Bacta Tank.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Not really, the religion thing would be fair enough in most circumstances, like a Muhammed cake would be against one of their core beliefs. It'd be like asking a Christian to make a Satan cake or something, in which case, fair enough, I wouldn't expect them to make that cake. This 'Christian' is citing such a tiny part of his religion whilst ignoring the larger, core beliefs. Just pointing out the ridiculous hypocrisy involved.


Well, to be the fairest of them all, I'd make a Satan cake. Because my business is to make cakes for people based on their orders, not to dictate my beliefs onto others. But that's only because I see a clear line between business and personal beliefs.

I'm not supporting their beliefs. I am not endorsing their beliefs. I'm doing a job that I'm getting paid for and everything being done is legal.

The non sequitur is when someone says, "Would you make a cake of a man touching a boy for NAMBLA?" Well, now, that's illegal, isn't it, dipshit? It's not illegal to be homosexual (thankfully). It's not illegal to worship Satan. But it is certainly illegal to abuse children.


"Would you make a slave themed cake if it was 1810?" SUUUURE! It's 1820, slavery is legal, and I wouldn't know any better. Doesn't mean I would be a slave owner or endorse owning slaves. I'm still running a business.



Honestly, I could make any cake that didn't disgust me. So I may not be able to make the slave cake...It'd make me "mad, bro."


__________________

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:42 PM
dadudemon is currently offline Click here to Send dadudemon a Private Message Find more posts by dadudemon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scribble
Zombie

Gender: Male
Location: Compound

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Cuz I'm tired of religious double standards in this country. You'd think in a majority christian country the double standard would exist the other way around, but nope lol.
This double-standard is entirely fictional though. You invented it. no expression Just because you assume it would happen that way, doesn't mean there's any ground or reason to debate it. In fact, debating a fictional scenario is just taking debate away from the real-life scenario that we're supposed to be talking about.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, to be the fairest of them all, I'd make a Satan cake. Because my business is to make cakes for people based on their orders, not to dictate my beliefs onto others. But that's only because I see a clear line between business and personal beliefs.

I'm not supporting their beliefs. I am not endorsing their beliefs. I'm doing a job that I'm getting paid for and everything being done is legal.

The non sequitur is when someone says, "Would you make a cake of a man touching a boy for NAMBLA?" Well, now, that's illegal, isn't it, dipshit? It's not illegal to be homosexual (thankfully). It's not illegal to worship Satan. But it is certainly illegal to abuse children.


"Would you make a slave themed cake if it was 1810?" SUUUURE! It's 1820, slavery is legal, and I wouldn't know any better. Doesn't mean I would be a slave owner or endorse owning slaves. I'm still running a business.



Honestly, I could make any cake that didn't disgust me. So I may not be able to make the slave cake...It'd make me "mad, bro."
The line between religion and business is definitely a good one to draw. If they were explicitly a Christian cake store, then going in and ordering a Satan cake would be an obvious troll attempt, so it'd be even more fair for them to refuse it. But if the religion side is just personal, then separating business and religion is the best idea.

Coming back to the Muslim thing (sigh, I wish I didn't have to), asking a Muslim to make a Mohammed cake (even if their shop isn't explicitly a Muslim cake shop) would also just be an obvious troll attempt, as nobody needs a Mohammed cake. A Muslim wouldn't want one as it'd be against their religion, so whoever is ordering it is clearly just trying to rile up the shop owner.


__________________


a zombie is a small yellow flower
cinematography by thimios bakatakis

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:49 PM
Scribble is currently offline Click here to Send Scribble a Private Message Find more posts by Scribble Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
dadudemon
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Bacta Tank.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
Coming back to the Muslim thing (sigh, I wish I didn't have to), asking a Muslim to make a Mohammed cake (even if their shop isn't explicitly a Muslim cake shop) would also just be an obvious troll attempt, as nobody needs a Mohammed cake. A Muslim wouldn't want one as it'd be against their religion, so whoever is ordering it is clearly just trying to rile up the shop owner.


Speak for yourself, mother f*cker!

Muslim Tiers (damn, this pun is amazing) are delicious.


__________________

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:52 PM
dadudemon is currently offline Click here to Send dadudemon a Private Message Find more posts by dadudemon Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scribble
This double-standard is entirely fictional though. You invented it. no expression Just because you assume it would happen that way, doesn't mean there's any ground or reason to debate it. In fact, debating a fictional scenario is just taking debate away from the real-life scenario that we're supposed to be talking about.


It's not fictional though, lol. One of the campus reform videos(or a video in the same vein as those) had them going around, asking if a Christian denying a service based on religion was okay. I wish I could find it again, but they were then asked if a Muslim doing the same was okay. Do you think they were consistent? It's not everybody who thinks that, but it absolutely is not solely in my head.

And since you don't live here...lol, how would you even be able to say this double standard doesn't exist?

How would you even think it doesn't also exist by you? What do you guys hear more about in the news: Islamaphobia or the polls that show 40% of british muslims want homosexuality illegal, etc.?


__________________
But we all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing waiting for us.

Last edited by Surtur on Dec 5th, 2017 at 04:58 PM

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:54 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scribble
Zombie

Gender: Male
Location: Compound

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
It's not fictional though, lol. One of the campus reform videos(or a video in the same vein as those) had them going around, asking if a Christian denying a service based on religion was okay. I wish I could find it again, but they were then asked if a Muslim doing the same was okay. Do you think they were consistent? It's not everybody who thinks that, but it absolutely is not solely in my head.

And since you don't live here...lol, how would you even be able to say this double standard doesn't exist?

How would you even think it doesn't also exist by you? What do you guys hear more about in the news: Islamaphobia or the polls that show 40% of british muslims want homosexuality illegal, etc.?
Sorry, hang on a second. How does any of this relate to cakes again? I thought we were discussing the cake thing. The thing at the top of the page, you know, the OP. As far as I know nobody has defended a Muslim for not baking a Mohammed cake, so I don't really understand where you're coming from. You seem to be using another scenario and projecting it onto this one, maybe? I don't know. We were talking about cakes and then you went off about Islam. Seems like a non-sequitur to me. Or should I say, a Non-SequiSurtur.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Speak for yourself, mother f*cker!

Muslim Tiers (damn, this pun is amazing) are delicious.
Oh god


Alright, I'll give you that one. That was pretty good.


__________________


a zombie is a small yellow flower
cinematography by thimios bakatakis

Old Post Dec 5th, 2017 04:58 PM
Scribble is currently offline Click here to Send Scribble a Private Message Find more posts by Scribble Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 05:34 AM.
Pages (23): [1] 2 3 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » US Supreme Pizza Part II: Bake a Cake

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.