KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » Donald Trump's brain drain

Donald Trump's brain drain
Started by: The Ellimist

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
The Ellimist
The Shadow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Donald Trump's brain drain

This is one of the most insidious ways Trump is crippling the United States. With the stricter immigration policies and the perception, right or wrong, of a more xenophobic administration, a lot of highly skilled foreign workers and academics that otherwise would come to the US are now staying at home or going elsewhere. Many Trump supporters support this because they think saving a few thousand of those jobs for American workers in the short term is worth massive losses in America's overall economic / innovative abilities on both an absolute and relative level.

Granted, Trump has expressed his intentions to make immigration more meritocratic, but it's unclear if he will actually structure it in such a way that the net amount of high-skilled workers increases.

But who needs any of that when you're bringing coal back, amirite?


__________________
Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)

Last edited by The Ellimist on Apr 27th, 2018 at 02:36 PM

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 02:32 PM
The Ellimist is currently offline Click here to Send The Ellimist a Private Message Find more posts by The Ellimist Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Nibedicus
Gaming addict

Gender: Male
Location: Philippines

Isn't this like the reverse of a brain drain?

Basically, use the intellect within the US instead of taking away the smart people from other countries (especially 3rd world countries that need it more)?

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 02:59 PM
Nibedicus is currently offline Click here to Send Nibedicus a Private Message Find more posts by Nibedicus Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
Senor Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
This is one of the most insidious ways Trump is crippling the United States. With the stricter immigration policies and the perception, right or wrong, of a more xenophobic administration, a lot of highly skilled foreign workers and academics that otherwise would come to the US are now staying at home or going elsewhere. Many Trump supporters support this because they think saving a few thousand of those jobs for American workers in the short term is worth massive losses in America's overall economic / innovative abilities on both an absolute and relative level.

Granted, Trump has expressed his intentions to make immigration more meritocratic, but it's unclear if he will actually structure it in such a way that the net amount of high-skilled workers increases.

But who needs any of that when you're bringing coal back, amirite?


thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Isn't this like the reverse of a brain drain?

Basically, use the intellect within the US instead of taking away the smart people from other countries (especially 3rd world countries that need it more)?


Why not both though? It's not like a US genius in chemistry is being denied a job because an Indian (Dot not Feather) genius in the same field is being flown in to work at DuPont, top research firms and companies will absorb them both. IIRC, we lack these top-end people overall. Do correct me if I'm wrong here.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Last edited by Robtard on Apr 27th, 2018 at 04:36 PM

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 04:33 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

Account Restricted

As a country we need to look at our own education systems and ask ourselves why we apparently need to rely so much on smart people from other countries.


__________________
Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 04:45 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Putinbot1
Restricted

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Account Restricted

I explained that in another thread. Interestingly 79 of the top 250 Universities in the world are in a Kingdom the size of one of your states.


__________________

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 04:50 PM
Putinbot1 is currently offline Click here to Send Putinbot1 a Private Message Find more posts by Putinbot1 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Kurk
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: The Darkest Corner of your Mind

Account Restricted

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
As a country we need to look at our own education systems and ask ourselves why we apparently need to rely so much on smart people from other countries.
Yes

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
thumb up



Why not both though? It's not like a US genius in chemistry is being denied a job because an Indian (Dot not Feather) genius in the same field is being flown in to work at DuPont, top research firms and companies will absorb them both. IIRC, we lack these top-end people overall. Do correct me if I'm wrong here.

Lemme tell you B.S intro-level jobs in Chemistry do not f*cking exist anymore. You either need to have a phD in the field or some kick-ass connections.

We get enough overqualified H1B1's to do the intro level jobs now, leaving Kurk quite irritated. Same thing is happening to Comp Sci.


__________________

"Technology equals might!" "Evolve or perish"

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 04:53 PM
Kurk is currently offline Click here to Send Kurk a Private Message Find more posts by Kurk Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Surtur
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location: Chicago

Account Restricted

We need to overhaul our education system.

Yet recently we had parents getting flat out arrested and dragged out of a school board meeting proposing charter schools. Let that sink in.


__________________
Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 04:54 PM
Surtur is currently offline Click here to Send Surtur a Private Message Find more posts by Surtur Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Robtard
Senor Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
Yes


Lemme tell you B.S intro-level jobs in Chemistry do not f*cking exist anymore. You either need to have a phD in the field or some kick-ass connections.

We get enough overqualified H1B1's to do the intro level jobs now, leaving Kurk quite irritated. Same thing is happening to Comp Sci.


I wasn't referring to entry level jobs, as I don't think the OP/Ellimist was either. Top-level jobs and the brilliant minds to head them.


__________________


You've Just Been Kirked To The Curb

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 04:56 PM
Robtard is currently offline Click here to Send Robtard a Private Message Find more posts by Robtard Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Ellimist
The Shadow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

@Surtur: I mean, why not do both? It would be weird for a corporation to refuse to try to recruit people because it thinks it can just improve its in-house training programs. They're not mutually exclusive, but getting the pick of billions is going to give you better odds than relying only on your native population.


__________________
Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 05:29 PM
The Ellimist is currently offline Click here to Send The Ellimist a Private Message Find more posts by The Ellimist Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Flyattractor
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: B.F.K

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
We need to overhaul our education system.

Yet recently we had parents getting flat out arrested and dragged out of a school board meeting proposing charter schools. Let that sink in.


We need to Burn out the Leftist Fascist from the U.S Educational System.

That is what is RUINING our Children's Future.


__________________
Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 05:52 PM
Flyattractor is currently offline Click here to Send Flyattractor a Private Message Find more posts by Flyattractor Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Ellimist
The Shadow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
51% of immigrants are on welfare, so at this point the benefits outweigh the costs and as mentioned Trump is trying to make immigration more meritocratic.


Having ten high-quality software engineers + 90 manual laborers on welfare = net positive.

It's not enough for the process to be meritocratic, it also has to allow enough people in. Meritocratically choosing 100 people probably isn't better than sort of meritocratically choosing 1000 unless if those 100 are astronomically better than the 1000.


__________________
Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 05:57 PM
The Ellimist is currently offline Click here to Send The Ellimist a Private Message Find more posts by The Ellimist Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Flyattractor
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: B.F.K

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Having ten high-quality software engineers + 90 manual laborers on welfare = net positive.

It's not enough for the process to be meritocratic, it also has to allow enough people in. Meritocratically choosing 100 people probably isn't better than sort of meritocratically choosing 1000 unless if those 100 are astronomically better than the 1000.


Well that is a big pile of spin.


__________________
Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 05:59 PM
Flyattractor is currently offline Click here to Send Flyattractor a Private Message Find more posts by Flyattractor Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Ellimist
The Shadow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Your brain probably is pretty easy to spin given its tiny size, yeah


__________________
Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 06:01 PM
The Ellimist is currently offline Click here to Send The Ellimist a Private Message Find more posts by The Ellimist Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Flyattractor
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: B.F.K

Oh that Insult really hurt. Truly it did.


Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance


__________________
Banned 30 days for the Crime of "ETC"... and when I "ETC" I do it HARD!!!
Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 06:06 PM
Flyattractor is currently offline Click here to Send Flyattractor a Private Message Find more posts by Flyattractor Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
JMANGO
Restricted

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Account Restricted

Re: Donald Trump's brain drain

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
This is one of the most insidious ways Trump is crippling the United States. With the stricter immigration policies and the perception, right or wrong, of a more xenophobic administration, a lot of highly skilled foreign workers and academics that otherwise would come to the US are now staying at home or going elsewhere. Many Trump supporters support this because they think saving a few thousand of those jobs for American workers in the short term is worth massive losses in America's overall economic / innovative abilities on both an absolute and relative level.


... This is the exact opposite of what brain drain is.

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 06:11 PM
JMANGO is currently offline Click here to Send JMANGO a Private Message Find more posts by JMANGO Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
The Ellimist
The Shadow

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Re: Re: Donald Trump's brain drain

quote: (post)
Originally posted by JMANGO
... This is the exact opposite of what brain drain is.


A lot of foreign students in the US who would otherwise stay here are moving elsewhere. Regardless of the semantics over whether that and potential future immigrants not coming is technically a brain drain or a reverse brain drain, the outcome is the same.


__________________
Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 06:13 PM
The Ellimist is currently offline Click here to Send The Ellimist a Private Message Find more posts by The Ellimist Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
samhain
The Demon Hunter

Gender: Male
Location: Malebolge

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
(Dot not Feather)



laughing out loud


__________________
Then lets head down into that cellar and carve ourselves a witch


rolling on floor laughing smokin' messed

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 06:26 PM
samhain is currently offline Click here to Send samhain a Private Message Find more posts by samhain Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Putinbot1
Restricted

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Account Restricted

Ellimist has a good point, a lot of research done at Universities is done by foreign students, MIT and Caltech attract the most brilliant minds worldwide, like one of my own Universities Kings College, University of London. The research they do draws corporate funding and the patented work and papers which often belong to the University, and the funders lead to Industry making money, the University making money and often a nation, and sometimes several countries making money. Brexit will almost certainly have a similar effect on UK research (it already has) to Trump. The thing is in Europe the UK stands alone as a University powerhouse. So when the UK fails the foreign students may go to China, I see the Chinese doing well out of this.


__________________

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 06:41 PM
Putinbot1 is currently offline Click here to Send Putinbot1 a Private Message Find more posts by Putinbot1 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Nibedicus
Gaming addict

Gender: Male
Location: Philippines

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Why not both though? It's not like a US genius in chemistry is being denied a job because an Indian (Dot not Feather) genius in the same field is being flown in to work at DuPont, top research firms and companies will absorb them both. IIRC, we lack these top-end people overall. Do correct me if I'm wrong here.


I guess it can be, if you look at it another way.

But I think by definition, "brain drain" needs ppl to leave their native country to emigrate to another country due to better opportunities. At least that's what I know.

Wouldn't you need the job to be specifically suited to the individual for it to not be possible for another person to be able to do the job aside from said genius? I mean wouldn't there be quite a few suitably intelligent persons (less qualified, sure, but sufficiently qualified, tho) out there who compete over these top research positions?

I think the brain drain tends to be more due to the fact that ppl from less developed countries with sufficient qualification to do highly technical jobs tend to be cheaper (or have better work ethics and attitudes or willing to take higher risks) than the ones born in the first world. I don't think the brain drain is more in the top-top echelon intellects but moreso for the qualified upper percentile who are willing to do jobs that are essential (or very helpful) in their own countries but emigrate due to better opportunities elsewhere, particularly coming from the third worlds (a lot of medical professionals, engineers, architects, artists, software developers, etc. in my country tend to leave and go to the US due to the much higher wages there).

I mean, that's just coming from what's happening over here anyway.

Last edited by Nibedicus on Apr 27th, 2018 at 06:56 PM

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 06:48 PM
Nibedicus is currently offline Click here to Send Nibedicus a Private Message Find more posts by Nibedicus Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Putinbot1
Restricted

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Account Restricted

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I guess it can be, if you look at it another way.

But I think by definition, "brain drain" needs ppl to leave their native country to emigrate to another country due to better opportunities. At least that's what I know.

Wouldn't you need the job to be specifically suited to the individual for it to not be possible for another person to be able to do the job aside from said genius? I mean wouldn't there be quite a few suitably intelligent persons (less qualified, sure, but sufficiently qualified, tho) out there who compete over these top research positions?

I think the brain drain tends to be more due to the fact that ppl from less developed countries with sufficient qualification to do highly technical jobs tend to be cheaper (or have better work ethics and attitudes or willing to take higher risks) than the ones born in the first world. I don't think the brain drain is more in the top-top echelon intellects but moreso for the qualified upper percentile who are willing to do jobs that are essential (or very helpful) in their own countries but emigrate due to better opportunities elsewhere, particularly coming from the third worlds (a lot of medical professionals, engineers, architects, artists, software developers, etc. in my country tend to leave and go to the US due to the much higher wages there).

I mean, that's just coming from what's happening over here anyway.
I pretty much agree, with this post although I have seen "brain drain" applied to the loss of foreign academics post brexit vote in the UK, so I have no problem with Ellimists definition.


__________________

Old Post Apr 27th, 2018 07:06 PM
Putinbot1 is currently offline Click here to Send Putinbot1 a Private Message Find more posts by Putinbot1 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 01:06 AM.
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » Donald Trump's brain drain

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.