What Science Says:
he Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children" Pediatrics. 2006:
"More than 25 years of research have documented that there is no relationship between parents' sexual orientation and any measure of a child's emotional, psychosocial, and behavioral adjustment. These data have demonstrated no risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with 1 or more gay parents. Conscientious and nurturing adults, whether they are men or women, heterosexual or homosexual, can be excellent parents."
Marriage of Same-Sex Couples – 2006 Position Statement Canadian Psychological Association:
"A review of the psychological research into the well-being of children raised by same-sex and opposite-sex parents continues to indicate that there are no reliable differences in their mental health or social adjustment and that lesbian mothers and gay fathers are not less fit as parents than are their heterosexual counterparts."
Legal Recognition of Same-Sex Relationships in the United States : A social science perspective." American Psychologist. 2006:
"Despite considerable variation in the quality of their samples, research design, measurement methods, and data analysis techniques, the findings to date have been remarkably consistent. Empirical research to date has consistently failed to find linkages between children’s well-being and the sexual orientation of their parents. If gay, lesbian, or bisexual parents were inherently less capable than otherwise comparable heterosexual parents, their children would evidence problems regardless of the type of sample. This pattern clearly has not been observed. Given the consistent failures in this research literature to disprove the null hypothesis, the burden of empirical proof is on those who argue that the children of sexual minority parents fare worse than the children of heterosexual parents."
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) Parented Families - A Literature Review prepared for The Australian Psychological Society:
"The family studies literature indicates that it is family processes (such as the quality of parenting and relationships within the family) that contribute to determining children’s wellbeing and ‘outcomes’, rather than family structures, per se, such as the number, gender, sexuality and co-habitation status of parents. The research indicates that parenting practices and children’s outcomes in families parented by lesbian and gay parents are likely to be at least as favourable as those in families of heterosexual parents, despite the reality that considerable legal discrimination and inequity remain significant challenges for these families."
How Does the Gender of Parents Matter?" Journal of Marriage and Family. 2010:
"No research supports the widely held conviction that the gender of parents matters for child well-being."
Affidavit - United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts" Michael Lamb, Ph.D. 2009:
"It is well-established that both men and women have the capacity to be good parents, and that having parents of both genders does not enhance adjustment. Based on a significant and well-respected body of research, the scientific community has reached consensus that parental sexual orientation does not affect adjustment. Numerous organizations representing mental health and child welfare professionals have issued statements confirming that same-sex parents are as effective as heterosexual parents in raising well-adjusted children and adolescents and should not face discrimination. See Exhibit B. These organizations include the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the Child Welfare League of America, and the North American Council on Adoptable Children."
Case No. S147999 in the Supreme Court of the State of California:
"The scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has been remarkably consistent in showing that lesbian and gay parents are every bit as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents. Amici emphasize that the abilities of gay and lesbian persons as parents and the positive outcomes for their children are not areas where credible scientific researchers disagree. Statements by the leading associations of experts in this area reflect professional consensus that children raised by lesbian or gay parents do not differ in any important respects from those raised by heterosexual parents. No credible empirical research suggests otherwise."
(1:16)
-> mother, father, child is the smallest viable unit
-> if you fragment that there will be consequences
And unlike a certain ny times article, I've posted the link to the full interview here. So if you feel I'm being unfair regarding context, you're welcome to give me a time stamp.
So in reality this is just another attempted "gotcha" against Jordan. And IMO it has failed. I watched the entire clip of him you provided. Yes he does say the things you quoted. But if you watch further it's not that he thinks same sex couples should not be parents.
Rather he thinks it would be best if these couples made an effort to expose their child to what they are missing out on. The studies you talk about show that being raised by, for instance, two lesbians is not going to impact a childs overall well being. So he is saying that in such an instance a child would benefit by also being exposed to a male role model.
Saying there will be consequences does not necessarily mean the overall well being of the child would be impacted.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Great. So what strawmen are you going to apply to the op?
There we go!!! Do tell me where the op said he did.
Uh, it does when he literally says, "if you fragment the mother-father-child dynamic, you end up paying."
And, assuming you bothered to watch the interview, the question asked is should same sex couples raise kids?
If his response is to say that straying from mom-dad-child is "fragmenting", and then ist a bunch of challenges that wouldn't otherwise be present if the family was straight, that Peterson feels children would ideally be raised by straight couples is pretty obvious.
Last edited by Rockydonovang on Jun 4th, 2018 at 11:14 PM
So he's just saying the overall obvious again to impress the easily impressed? That a child with two mothers might benefit from being exposed to a (I assume he means positive?) male role model.
Yeah, this guy is WAY overrated, glad to see more and more people are catching on it his say-the-obvious-but-use-a-lot-words shtick.
But may I ask what the point of including anything about JP is in a topic about how same sex couples are no worse than hetero ones?
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Bingo about what he was saying. It's not controversial and no it's not something hard to figure out.
JP agree's with you that the stuff he says isn't ground breaking.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
That's the golden standard. Talk to any social worker or family psychologist: the best possible outcome is that golden standard.
Anything else that deviates from that will affect best possible outcomes.
But, please do, break apart each of those studies.
You need to cover the following elements if you wish to be academically honest:
1. Sample Collection - Self-reported? How were the study samples (the same-sex and hetersexual couples) collected? If it is self-reported or voluntary study where sampling contained any element of being informed of the study prior to the study being undertaken, there will be a very large positive sampling bias. We saw this with twin studies and homosexuality. When proper controls were put in place, the rates of homosexuality among twins drastically dropped which many people don't want to talk about. And it turns out that I'm right about this: They use convenience samples instead of randomized sampling. http://www.biomedcentral.com/conten...2458-14-635.pdf
But that's not all:
Seems sampling and accuracy is the end-all be-all of this particular debate with poor sampling methods and weak analytics, it should be obvious that the social sciences are rife with scientific credibility. This is known as the reproducability crisis.
4. a) Do the studies only use homosexual couples that were together for any amount of time that a child cohabitated or b)did they include only those where the homosexual parents were with the child all throughout the child's minor life into adulthood? If the former (a), then it needs to be compared to a comparable heterosexual data set where proportions are represented properly. 100% guaranteed you do not understand that because it is convoluted as hell. So I'll better explain: homosexual couples are shorter relationships. If the research is including any homosexual couples that were cohabitating and raising a child, then that standard needs to be applied to the proper heterosexual couple. For 1 year, compare that one year to the child during and after. Since there are far more heterosexual couples than homosexual, you will have to use ratios rather than absolute numbers (obviously). For example, your study may read, "34% of children who lived with homosexual adults where 1 was the biological parent, experienced suicidal thoughts and greater than 3 negative encounters with law enforcement. This same figure is 17% for children who lived with heterosexual adults where one was the biological parent." Does that make sense?
If the latter (b), then I would like to see that research. I would say for this situation, you would see much more positive outcomes for the children regardless of the parents in the home. Based on trends I see in the research, you'd probably see better outcomes for the "golden standard" but the homosexual life-partners would probably have better outcomes for the children than single parent homes, if I remember the research correctly.
For me, this is simple: I support the idea of raising children in same-sex relationships. Or any. Adoption should have the same standards for the parents regardless of the parents.
I covered a lot. I hope I busted up a lot of myths. The main purpose was the show you how crappy those studies are regarding same-sex couples. When better research is done, it shows clear negative outcomes for the children that come from same-sex homes. This is not what many want to be heard or known because many homosexual couples want to have children and would be kickass parents. So I understand why they would try to fudge research to support the cause.
Double D, here's the conclusion of the first study you linked:
The reason there's lower mental health isn't because of the reasons peterson outlines, but because of the "social stigma" around same sex couples. Otherwise, they fared better on parent reported health. That's hardly the conclusive "Yes, the best possible outcome is one father, one mother, where both are the biological parents of the children being raised in one home. "
For your second study:
Fair enough, but i'd like to see more than one study here.
In the mean time,i'll try and look deeper at the multiple studies i linked to see if they have the issues you say.
Last edited by Rockydonovang on Jun 5th, 2018 at 01:12 AM
I'd want to add a second opinion to the psychological evaluation. And proof if income and stable residence. I'd also want them to have "referrals" stating that they keep relationships for long periods of time (years). And that their current marriage or coupling is going to last a long time.
I question the practicality. Are there enough eligible willing parents? Is it economically practical? I've also seen the idea floated of having adoption as an alternative to abortion which would add to the number of kids who need parents.
Well I mean, he is saying that, or rather, he's saying that on average this is the case, and that the ideal situation is one mother, one father.
I don't take any particular issue with his statements in that video (it's one of the ones I've actually seen), but that is what he says. I think that, given that perspective, what he brought up was both fairly reasonable and respectful of prospective homophag parents.