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Kylo Ren is a better villain than Darth Vader
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quanchi112
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Kylo Ren is a better villain than Darth Vader

I called this years ago. Posters such as Darth Thor, Robtard, etc. resisted because they love Darth Vader but it's painfully obvious while I'm not alone with my predictions from years back. I am going to start rubbing in my predictions turned reality here so expect to be triggered.



https://screenrant.com/kylo-ren-bet...in-darth-vader/


laughing out loud


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 03:50 PM
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No, he isn't.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:02 PM
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juggerman
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I wonder if there are completely subjective articles that would say the opposite....

reading


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:04 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
No, he isn't.
Based on what ?


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:04 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by juggerman
I wonder if there are completely subjective articles that would say the opposite....

reading


I would imagine so.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what ?


I'd imagine the fact that he doesn't need a clickbaity, strangely written article on screenrant to make his case for him, for starters.

Otherwise? The only thing Kylo really has over him is that Adam Driver has more room to actually flex his acting ability.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:08 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
I would imagine so.



I'd imagine the fact that he doesn't need a clickbaity, strangely written article on screenrant to make his case for him, for starters.

Otherwise? The only thing Kylo really has over him is that Adam Driver has more room to actually flex his acting ability.
Its an opinion just as you have an opinion. If you can't make a case for Vader then just say you like him more. He doesn't really possess a wide range of emotions in the Ot. Kylo is quite nuanced and he's constantly evolving in the films throughout multiple scenes unlike Vader.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:11 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Its an opinion just as you have an opinion. If you can't make a case for Vader then just say you like him more. He doesn't really possess a wide range of emotions in the Ot. Kylo is quite nuanced and he's constantly evolving in the films throughout multiple scenes unlike Vader.


What case would I make that hasn't been made a thousand times before? Better written, more intimidating, better screen-presence. Better character arc. Better characters to play off of. More emotionally resonant. I can give you more to just blindly ignore if you wish.

I do like Vader more, but unlike some people, that doesn't influence all my opinions.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:22 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
What case would I make that hasn't been made a thousand times before? Better written, more intimidating, better screen-presence. Better character arc. Better characters to play off of. More emotionally resonant. I can give you more to just blindly ignore if you wish.

I do like Vader more, but unlike some people, that doesn't influence all my opinions.
So you basically like him more and the Ot films more. There isn't much to him in the Ot's save a quick hero turn. We see every experience Kylo has and the effect it has as he evolves. Vader didn't have that journey in the Ot. He just jumped ship in one scene. I also see Ren's impulsivity as a more interesting turn since you can't really predict what he's going to do. Vader was more impulsive in rots.

I find everything about Kylo from his look, to his saber, to his unpredictability, to his greatest trait over Vader the selfishness in him. He is doing what's right for him. Vader did what's right for Luke. Kylo is a much better villain since he's a villain choosing his own way whereas Vader was always just a broken sycophant strung along by Sidious. Vader is a truly tragic victim.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:27 PM
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dadudemon
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Re: Kylo Ren is a better villain than Darth Vader

quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
I called this years ago. Posters such as Darth Thor, Robtard, etc. resisted because they love Darth Vader but it's painfully obvious while I'm not alone with my predictions from years back. I am going to start rubbing in my predictions turned reality here so expect to be triggered.



https://screenrant.com/kylo-ren-bet...in-darth-vader/


laughing out loud


The only way to prove this point would be to poll the masses and ensure your population sample is representative.

Edit - Personally, I don't really see Kylo as a Villain. He will be one in the third movie, I think. He has been flipping all around and has not been a solid villain, just yet. The author of the article seems to miss that point which should come off as insulting to the writers of Ren's character.


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Last edited by dadudemon on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 04:44 PM

Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:42 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you basically like him more and the Ot films more. There isn't much to him in the Ot's save a quick hero turn. We see every experience Kylo has and the effect it has as he evolves. Vader didn't have that journey in the Ot. He just jumped ship in one scene. I also see Ren's impulsivity as a more interesting turn since you can't really predict what he's going to do. Vader was more impulsive in rots.

I find everything about Kylo from his look, to his saber, to his unpredictability, to his greatest trait over Vader the selfishness in him. He is doing what's right for him. Vader did what's right for Luke. Kylo is a much better villain since he's a villain choosing his own way whereas Vader was always just a broken sycophant strung along by Sidious. Vader is a truly tragic victim.


That's not what I said, but it was considerate of you to get the whole dismissive thing done early in the thread so that you've removed any impulse I'd have to respond to you after this.

You like Kylo. That's cool. He's an interesting character.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:44 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
The only way to prove this point would be to poll the masses and ensure your population sample is representative.

Edit - Personally, I don't really see Kylo as a Villain. He will be one in the third movie, I think. He has been flipping all around and has not been a solid villain, just yet. The author of the article seems to miss that point which should come off as insulting to the writers of Ren's character.
One can't ever prove a subjective subject IMO. I'm just saying another site agrees with me. I called this years back. I would venture to guess most Star Wars fans prefer Vader. To deny Kylo is more nuanced is serious folly though. I'm in the minority in favoring the new trilogy over the originals.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 04:45 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
One can't ever prove a subjective subject IMO. I'm just saying another site agrees with me. I called this years back. I would venture to guess most Star Wars fans prefer Vader. To deny Kylo is more nuanced is serious folly though. I'm in the minority in favoring the new trilogy over the originals.


And your opinion is nuanced, imo. I think you and Firefly do a very good job of defending your positions.

And this is what is great about the writing in the new Star Wars movie, TLJ: it has us talking about it and anticipating the third movie. From that point, TFA and TLJ have been a success. The business keeps moving and we get more movies. That's got to make the Star Wars fans, happy, right?





To not take us off topic and to stay on the thread...I gotta say, I think Kylo's character is better done/written in TLJ than TFA. It was a step up. His acting was better, too. Rian IS a good writer and director.


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Bentley
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Depends a lot on what you expect from a villain. Darth Vader despite the iconic status of the OT is a rather inexpressive character for most of it. But when you insert him into the whole narrative of the series you realize this shrouded personality still remains mysterious and that details end up eluding the viewer.

For example, Vader seems to respect Peter Cushing's character over the entirety of the first film and largely treats him at his equal. As more knowledge about Vader comes afloat the viewer starts to realize that this goes unexplained and open to interpretation. This is not some sort of trait that is meant to suggest future progress of the character, be relevant to the plot nor anything ilke that, there seems to be something about how Vader functions that mostly escapes us.

In my opinion Kylo Ren is indirectly hurt by the focus in his character progression, given him too many traits that are plot relevant and very little depth as far as gratuitous things go. We get to see where Kylo fits exactly in each of these films, with too much hand holding, too little second hand information, too many emotions and personal development and too little of how he fits in the universe. This makes him less satisfying somehow for me, I even surprise myself caring more about Commander Hux as he is clearly flawed and petty, but he rises to the occasion at times and seemingly learns from the mistakes of others.

I think what I mean is... That both Hux and Moff Tarkin are better than these darkside villains wannabes


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Impediment
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Darth Vader has 100 times the presence of Kylo Ren.

Vader is a cultural icon.


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juggernaut74
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Impediment
Darth Vader has 100 times the presence of Kylo Ren.

Vader is a cultural icon.
Exactly.

Kylo Ren is a wannabe.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 06:03 PM
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Flyattractor
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Buy Kylo is so Bad Arse that He didn't even need to get that Gut Wound he got in TFA fixed in TLJ. He only needed to put some electric tape on his cheek scratch.


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BruceSkywalker
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I actually see Kylo/Ben more as an antihero than a villain


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 07:38 PM
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Flyattractor
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Yeah cause helping to MURDER a few BILLION PEOPLE is what Anti heroes do.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 07:41 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Impediment
Darth Vader has 100 times the presence of Kylo Ren.

Vader is a cultural icon.
Iyo not mine. Vader has always been overrated and as I said he doesn't have the nuance of Kylo Ren nor did he ever butcher a family member. Vader is more popular I agree but I never went with the masses for the most part. I blaze my own trail.


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Old Post Jan 2nd, 2018 07:56 PM
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Flyattractor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by quanchi112
Iyo not mine. Vader has always been overrated and as I said he doesn't have the nuance of Kylo Ren nor did he ever butcher a family member. Vader is more popular I agree but I never went with the masses for the most part. I blaze my own trail.


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