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queeq
Chaos
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: JP's bed |
The Gollem Issue
One thing bothered me after seeing LOTR yesterday. I can't remember the book very well so perhaps one of you can resolve this issue.
In the film we see Bilbo aged rapidly after he gave the ring to Frodo (in the book there's perhaps a year between his departure and them meeting again in Rivendel). So I was wondering, shouldn't Gollem be dead by the time of FOTR? I mean, some 30-40 years have past since Gollem lost the ring, and he was over 300 years old by then.... Any ideas?
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Jan 21st, 2002 02:07 PM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
 Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
it's not like bilbo aged rapidly, this might be a bit unclear in the movie. the fact is that after gandalf left frodo after bilbos birthday it took quite a while befor he returned, many years.
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Jan 21st, 2002 04:29 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
 Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Moderator |
Actually, Mah, it looks like they changed that for the film so it WASN'T a number of years... which is odd, because they still had Bilbo finish his book, which was nowhere near finished earlier.
In the books, of course, he had finished his book because it HAD been many years before Frodo came to Rivendell. In the film, I guess he was just suddenly inspired...
Anyway. Gollum is no normal Hobbit any more. He had the ring for FAR too long. Longevity is inevitable, even though he doesn't have it any more. He'll be fine so long as the Ring is there.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 21st, 2002 07:12 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Gender: Unspecified
Location: JP's bed |
Hold on, not a normal Hobbit anymore? If aging goes more rapidly after you lose the ring or if it kicks in after the ring in gone, Gollum must STILL have aged immensely, since LOTR takes place some 30-40 years AFTER Gollum lost the ring. Then add the years between the time when Bilbo gave the ring to Frodo and even more ringless years have past.
So what does the ring do then? Is that documented anywhere? I thought the longevity was caused by having the ring in your possession... but then I'm not an expert on LOTR.
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Jan 22nd, 2002 11:36 AM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
I don't know. If what you say is right, ush, why is bilbo as old-looking as in the book?
gollum though has had it for so long that he is not normal anymore, so how he is reacting to losing the ring is a different matter.
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Jan 22nd, 2002 01:06 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Gender: Unspecified
Location: JP's bed |
Even his aging?
Where do you base your conclusion on?
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Jan 22nd, 2002 04:16 PM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
it is half a year since I read the book the last time, so I don't remember everything excactly, but I base my conclusions on what I remember, and what I think.
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Jan 22nd, 2002 04:42 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Moderator |
Right, look, in the film Bilbo DOES suffer rapid aging because he has lost the ring and his years are catching up with him. This is a change from the book in which, simply, time passes.
But Gollum had the ring for TOO LONG. It has a consuming effect on those who wear it, all to do with that 'Land of Shadow' you find yourslef in when you put it on. This effect has changed Gollum, and as I say, he will probably live so long as the Ring exists.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 22nd, 2002 06:21 PM |
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Raz
Meister
 Gender: Male
Location: UK Admin |
If Gollum wore the ring, then shouldn't Sauron have noticed? Thus Ring Wraths would have been after him.
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Jan 22nd, 2002 08:08 PM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
yes, in the film you see gollum being tortured by saurons men, to tell who he lost the ring to.
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Jan 22nd, 2002 08:10 PM |
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Raz
Meister
Gender: Male
Location: UK Admin |
It took them 500 years to find him??? Or did he wear it after 500 years?
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Jan 22nd, 2002 08:17 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Moderator |
If Sauron always knew the location of the Ringbearer then he would have gotten it back ages ago.
Aside from anything else, he has only recently returned to power. But on the whole, he has to use detective work to discover the Ringbearer.
Sauron, like everyone else on the bad side, completely ignores the Hobbits. So not until Gollum is captured does he get the lead he needs to sent the Ringwraiths out.
Only in close proximity can the Nazgul sense usage of the Ring.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 22nd, 2002 08:24 PM |
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Raz
Meister
Gender: Male
Location: UK Admin |
When Frodo put the ring on near the end, after he ran away from Bromir, he could see the eye - prusmbaly the eye could see him, and he wasn't close to the eye. Why?
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Jan 22nd, 2002 08:27 PM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
gollum hated the West and all its people. and he believed that the citizens of Mordor would help him get revenge. but, eventually as he strode along the border, he got caught and because of him the Enemy got to know all about which ring this was, where the ring was at that time and so on.
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Jan 22nd, 2002 08:28 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Moderator |
Frodo was right next to Mordor when he put the Ring on there! Besides, there is no guarantee that Sauron then actually knew Frodo's location.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 22nd, 2002 08:33 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Gender: Unspecified
Location: JP's bed |
Okay, I still would like to know where it is documented that if you keep the ring for as long as Gollum did, that you don't age anymore.
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Jan 23rd, 2002 08:33 AM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
he's all stretched, he has had the ring for so long that he has been more and more invulnerable to aging, yet more and more cripled.
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Jan 23rd, 2002 12:41 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Moderator |
A quote from FOTR (the book)
"'Yes, alas! through him the Enemy has learned that the One has been found again. He knows where Isildur fell. He knows where Gollum found his ring. He knows that it is a Great Ring, for it gave long life. He knows that it is not one of the Three, for they have never been lost, and they endure no evil. He knows that it is not one of the Seven, or the Nine, for they are accounted for. He knows that it is the One. And he has at last heard, I think, of hobbits and the Shire."
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 23rd, 2002 06:23 PM |
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queeq
Chaos
Gender: Unspecified
Location: JP's bed |
Yes, so? "It gave long life".... GAVE, while having it in possession yes. What does that prove?
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Jan 23rd, 2002 08:20 PM |
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Raz
Meister
Gender: Male
Location: UK Admin |
From what I've read about Gollum, it said that he had the ring for so long that it mutated him. He is meant to be like a hobbit, but now looks completly different.
BTW, I thought, in the film, that when we saw Bilbo in Rivendel he had gained his true age because he didn't have the ring anymore...
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Jan 23rd, 2002 11:08 PM |
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