“I regret to announce that -though, as I said, eleventy-one years is far to short a time to spend among you -this is the END. I am going. I am leaving NOW. GOODBYE!” -Bilbo Baginns p30 LOTR
“fly you fools” -Gandalf the Gray. p 322 LOTR
“Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed.” -Boromir p 404 LOTR
“Farewell, Master Hobytla! My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!......Live in blessedness; and when you sit in peace with your pipe think of me!......Where is Eomer? For my eyes darken, and I would see him ere I go. He must be king after me. And I would send word to Eowyn. She, she would not have me leave her, and now I shall not see her again, dearer than daughter. –Theoden p 825 LOTR(note: the book version is dif than the film version...in the book King Theoden never sees his dear Eowyn ever again, and dies not knowing she was just a few yards away from him.)
“...But in this at least thou shalt not defy my will: to rule my own end. Come hither! Come if you are not all recreant!” -Denathor p836 LOTR
PRECIOUS!!!! -Gollum p 925 LOTR
“You do what Sharkey says, always, don’t you, Worm? Well, now he says: follow!” -Saruman p 996 LOTR
“Come now, ride with me!” -Frodo to Sam before riding to the gray havens p 1006 LOTR
“...will thou slay me swiftly?” -Turin Turambar to his sword Gurthang, who did indeed slay him ‘gladly’ after some well spoken words. -p 271 Silmarillion
The last words that were spoken by these people before they departed, never to return to wherever they came from. They indeed meant what they said, and some are more sorrowful than others. But they all had a common theme: “they were leaving”. Some unexpectantly, others died. All will leave eventually, and fade, whether taken by death, or old age, or willingly. Even elves will leave. Departure can be sad, but not always, because goodbyes aren’t always forever.
Discuss what you think about the moving and emotional ‘exits’ made by Tolkien’s Characters...The effects on others, and themselves....Keep it in depth, and interesting. What does it mean to leave? And what does it mean for Frodo Turin Theoden, ect...Why did they have to die/leave/depart/? Why does destiny or fate pick us/them?
For Frodo, He had to leave, staying was not an option, to many things in his life had changed, it wasn’t the same anymore, so he left, ‘some wounds go to deep’ He know has peace in valinor...
"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
I'm not sure about great deaths, but I felt the most stirring demise was the departure of Boromir. His passing & his final speech with Aragorn were touching, & made all the more poignant by the dirge sung by Aragorn & Legolas for the fallen Captain of Gondor. Perhaps it was particularly moving because some of his last thoughts were of failure, & the words "I am sorry. I have paid," indicate that he felt it was to some extent justice served that he had been slain defending his hobbit companions only a while after he himself had attempted to assail Frodo. His final plea to Aragorn, to "go to Minas Tirith and save my people!" was, in my mind at least, an important factor in Aragorn's decision making from that point forth, as it gave him a tangible oath ('Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall.') to fulfill rather than simply a doubtful destiny to look forward to.
Many of the deaths here concern derring do and heroic exploits. But I wonder if we could not step back and ask which death has the most bearing on a central concern of LOTR, the "gift" of man, mortality.
In this context, it seems to me that Arwen's death, recounted in Appendix A, part v, encapsulates most clearly the poignancy of this dilemma of death in man and elves. I would not call it "awesome" but certainly profoundly moving.
Oh, I weep as I read this, for all the unnumbered lives of women who have passed unremarked and unmemorialised in all the ages of history which are devoted to the accolades of men and their petty rivalries and their doings and gettings and spendings.
Concerning the significance of Arwen's death, Tolkien wrote in Letter #181:
It wouldn't take a lot of special effects to film it, but it is one of the most touching moments in all that Tolkien has ever written for us.
There is something about a woman's quiet, lonely passing that highlights how much the priorities of history are skewed. I think Tolkien clearly had a point when he reminded us that she was not be remembered. But, in a sense, it also makes her passing more heroic, evocative of the same emotion that a monument to the Unknown Solider might produce in us.
I was also struck by the fact that she literally had to lose everything before she died, and am wondering whether or not this was highlighted to make her passing easier or more bitter.
I might be stoned to death for saying this, but it seemed to me that a woman's death is quite more sorrowful than a man's. It's just that in all the ages of Middle-Earth, the death of men are given more emphasis, especially in battles. But it is quite unusual to tell of a woman dying, so hearing of it makes me uneasy, not really because I am a female myself.
ah good stuff shadowy, it that second quote from the letters of the "one" himself
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"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
I love the end of Níniel's life... it's a little over-dramatic, but brilliantly told...
Farewell, O twice beloved! Túrin Turambar turun ambartanen: Master of Doom, by Doom mastered! Oh happy to be dead!
Here shall you fail of all your hopes, and here may you yet die the same death as I!
(Eol to Maeglin)
It may be that we shall not meet a second time in death or life
(Finrod to Beren)
Now is the Quest achieved, and my doom full-wrought...
(Beren)
Or Glaurung's nearly-last words -- "Hail Nienor, daughter of Húrin. We meet again ere the end. I give thee joy that thou hast found thy brother at last. And now thou shalt know him: a stabber in the dark, treacherous to foes, faithless to his friends, and a curse unto his kin, Túrin son of Húrin! But the worst of all his deeds thou shalt feel in thyself!"
[about two hours later - *notices that she still hasnt posted* *has no idea for comment* *will post later*]
__________________ Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary components.
exactly. Because of Boromir's 'last words' to aragorn, He did indeed now have somthing to fulfill. And I think Boromir's Words stayed in the back of his mind for sometime, even to the end, The promise Aragorn made, drove him, to do his great deeds, or at least was a great factor in his path to kingship.
yes, because she knew the day would come, when her husband would die, and when he did, I think that she figured she didn't have anything anymore, There was nothing for her, wich makes it to me, one of the most emotionally moving deaths of the trilogy(with the exception of Boromir)
Yes a man's death, can win great renown for all the deeds he's done rather in battle, or his accomplishments...ect(e.g. reagon, Theoden,)but women are rarly mentioned, And to me a women's passing is so deeply wrought with emotianal values, clearly defined by her dedicated Love to her Loved ones...Knowing that, It is clear to me, that a women's Life, (like arwen's)is most def worthy of rememberance, but is sadly, not remembered, and is forgotten, in the works and deeds of Men. And the History books, and Newspapers, and all kinds of media, and publicity, and Paparzi is Not needed for me. Because the greatest women I knew, My Grandma, died with so many accomplishments, and feats, her love to me, and my relatives, her wise sayings she told me, her cookies I will never taste again, are more than enough for ME to remember, and thats all that maters for me...cause I'll never forget her...
OK i'm getting to personal...
It depends on the person, and who it is,(imo) that decides who's death, is more sorrowfull, and their relationship to you. Not their age, race, or gender, although those ARE alot of times important factors for a LOT of people.
"He cannot stand alone!" cried Aragorn suddenly and ran along the bridge. "Elendil" he shouted, "I am with you Gandalf!"
"Gondor!" cried Boromir as he leaped after him.
At that moment Gandalf lifted his staff, and crying aloud he smote the bridge before him. The staff broke asunder and fell from his hand. A blinding sheet of white flame sprang up. The bridge cracked. Right at the Balrog's feet it broke, and the stone upon which it stood crashed into the gulf, while the rest remained, poised, quivering like a tongue of rock thrust into the emptiness.
With a terrible cry the Balrog fell forward, and it's shadow plunged down and vanished. But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizard's knees, dragging him in the brink. He staggared and fell, gasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. "Fly you fools!" he cried and he was gone
ok I know he DID RETURN after falling but it does deserve a mention.
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"In the year of our Lord 1314, patriots of Scotland, starving and outnumbered, charged the fields at Bannockburn. They fought like warrior poets. They fought like Scotsmen. And won their freedom."
wow...such long and intellectual posts, I am not going to say anything as long or important,
But i just wanted to say that I really like those quotes. Death/departure is one of the things Tolkien really goes into deeply. All of those quotes are really deep...and i like them a lot.
The death's seem extreamly real, adn though they are really sad, they are wonderful to read about at the same time.
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Jun 17th, 2004 10:31 PM
