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Captain REX
28:6:42:12
 Gender: Male
Location: Middlesex Moderator |
What would have happened...
While Elrond and Gandalf were strongly against using the Ring, they could have used it against Sauron. Here's a short paragraph out of my big red book with all of the LOTR books in it (not including The Hobbit and The Silmarillion). I found this in the Foreword. The paragraph before was talking about WWII when JRR Tolkien wrote the books.
The real war (WWII) does not resemble the legendary war (War of the Ring) in its process or its conclusion. If it had inspired or directed the development of the legend, then certainly the Ring would ahve been seized and used against Sauron; he would ot have been annihilated but enslaved, and Barad-dur would not have been destroyed but occupied. Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-Earth. In that conflict both sides would have held hobbits in hatred and contempt: they would not long have survived even as slaves.
What I'm guessing it means that if Tolkien had based it upon WWII a little more, Sauron (Germany and Hitler) would not have been destroyed, but put under the order of the conquerors (USA and Roosevelt). They refer to the hobbits not surviving as the Jews did not survive in the concentration camps in WWII.
Very interesting...
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May 20th, 2002 01:01 AM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
 Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
many still say Tolkien was influenced by WWII, even though he denied it. impossible to know for sure though.
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Last edited by mah on May 20th, 2002 at 05:44 PM
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May 20th, 2002 10:06 AM |
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Captain REX
28:6:42:12
Gender: Male
Location: Middlesex Moderator |
If he wanted to write it like WWII, he would have made the Ring an atom bomb and bow and arrows would be machine guns. Swords would be throwing knives. Sauron would be wearing a green suit with a red band on his arm and would have a neat little mustache. Gandalf would have polo, Frodo and Sam would be secret agents, and Aragorn would have some high rank in the army. 
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May 20th, 2002 10:53 PM |
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mah
J-type 327 Nubian
Gender: Male
Location: Florø, Norway |
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May 21st, 2002 02:23 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
 Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
what 'bout gollum...
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~ "Beyond the senses is the mind, and beyond the mind is reason. it's essence.
beyond reason is the Spirit in man, and beyond this is the Spirit of the universe. the evolver of all.
When the five senses and the mind are still, and reason itself rests in silence, then begins the Path supreme"
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May 21st, 2002 06:15 PM |
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Fitch
Free
 Gender: Male
Location: Where I belong |
what about Legolas and Gimli ? 
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May 21st, 2002 07:10 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
oh...those were medium skill American soldiers
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~ "Beyond the senses is the mind, and beyond the mind is reason. it's essence.
beyond reason is the Spirit in man, and beyond this is the Spirit of the universe. the evolver of all.
When the five senses and the mind are still, and reason itself rests in silence, then begins the Path supreme"
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May 21st, 2002 08:16 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
 Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Moderator |
Hobbits being Jews does not pan. Tolkien is saying that BOTH sides would have hated them
His point is that the side using the Ring would have become as evil as the side they defeated. This is the angle he was coming from.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 21st, 2002 08:21 PM |
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Fitch
Free
Gender: Male
Location: Where I belong |
and gollum was probably a dead recon
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May 22nd, 2002 09:01 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
Well...dead he is anyway
Important his role was
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~ "Beyond the senses is the mind, and beyond the mind is reason. it's essence.
beyond reason is the Spirit in man, and beyond this is the Spirit of the universe. the evolver of all.
When the five senses and the mind are still, and reason itself rests in silence, then begins the Path supreme"
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May 22nd, 2002 09:03 PM |
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Mujaffa
Lift a Mullah
 Gender: Male
Location: In Norway .. God damitt |
maybe gollum=Dexx
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May 27th, 2002 04:32 PM |
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Dexx
wingless
Gender: Male
Location: Bucharest, Romania |
hehe...or maybe not!
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~ "Beyond the senses is the mind, and beyond the mind is reason. it's essence.
beyond reason is the Spirit in man, and beyond this is the Spirit of the universe. the evolver of all.
When the five senses and the mind are still, and reason itself rests in silence, then begins the Path supreme"
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May 27th, 2002 07:05 PM |
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FINGOLFIN
Harry who?
Gender: Unspecified
Location: Maryland |
Well.....
I just watched "Origin of the Rings" and I will take Tolkiens word for it when he says WWII had very little to do with his War of the Ring.
He was actually in WWI...and that certainly shaped his view of things...but he says don't look for parallels in any such thing. He just wanted to write a story that people would like...
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Sean
webmaster @ www.CollectTolkien.com
The Petition Has Begun........
Okay people....I am counting on some support!!
Sign the petition to make "The Hobbit" into a live-action movie!!
http://www.petitiononline.com/Hobbit/petition.html
Please sign it!
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Jul 18th, 2002 03:37 AM |
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FreeMason
Member
Gender:
Location: Russia |
Ugh...no, Hobbits are HUMANITY!
That's all they are.
They are the dude who tills his farm, who loves his wife, who raises his family. THEY ARE ORDINARY EVERY DAY JOES.
That is why they would not long survive...and infact, they haven't.
After Hitler, Communism took over, and much of the world today is Socialist.
Gigantic monstrous governments that rule the every aspects of the common man.
And that's what Tolkein was stating.
That if lord of the rings were the real world...Evil would not be destroyed, power would shift from one "Dark Lord" to another...and the common ordinary human would be constantly caught in the crossfires...
because in a war-zone, everyone must take a side.
The most jewish character in the book is the Dwarves, and Tolkein even wrote to Hitler once saying that there is NO reference in his books to jews against or for, and that such a noble people shouldn't be pounced upon by ignoramouses like you (only he said it much better than that...as he is a god of english lol).
Anyways, when he's saying both sides hold hobbits in contempt he is stating Sauron and Saruman...which are representative in his statements of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
Both of which shunned individuality, everything was for some "cause".
When everything is for a cause other than liberty to live free, then evil will pass from one hand to the next.
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Sep 28th, 2003 05:03 AM |
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