I don't know about any other true LOTR fans here but I am so so so sick of seeing posts about magic in Middle Earth. The big one is the possibility of some sort of epic battle between the Gandalf and Witch King.
A lot of people who are creating these posts or commenting on these post seem to me ignorant of Tolkiens intentions.
Gandalf, along with the four other Istari (the five wizards) weren't in Middle Earth to shoot fireballs from their staffs and cast spells all day long (as some of you like to think). They were sent to Middle Earth by Illuvatar and the Valar on a mission to persuade the free people of Middle Earth to resist Saurons growing evil influence in the world.
The Istari were all actually forbiden by the Valar not to show their true form and abilities openly (this meaning displays of great power - this would include spells, charms, enchantments), as they were supposed to also keep their identities and origin secret (e.g: Gandalf's true identity was Olorin, his origin was the near beginning of time).
The Istari were commanded by the higher powers that sent them to only counsel men, elves and dwarves and to not use force like Sauron did (and Saruman also later on as well). This again is a command straight from their authorities not to openly use their power to win over the forces of evil. Why do you think they were sent in the form of old men? Because of course they were not supposed to be forceable in their endeavours to guide and teach the free people of Middle Earth to resist Sauron and his servants, and they would be limited physically as old fagile men and their wisdom respected the more for their age.
This was what Tolkien wanted. In fact, Tolkien didn't even like to call Gandalf's abilities 'magic' and he even denies that magic is very important in his world at all (thus why there is very little in the book along with the above reason that the Isari were not permitted to show open forms of power). He made a point of saying (and I'm quoting the man himself here...) that he uses the word "wizard" to mean something "utterly distinct from sorcerer or magician" (from The Letters Of J.R.R. Tolkien edited by H. Carpenter with Christopher Tolkien, 159).
I think posts like those are mainly for fun. The large majority of people here love tolkein (or at least, used to. That may have changed). And its often fun to say, "who would beat who" Just for the sake of argument and entertainment.
It's no different than in the Harry Potter forum going, "Would kreacher beat griphoook?" Or what not. It's FUN no one is being hardcore-serious about it, and it's not a insult to tolkein's memory to talk about stuff like that.
I think one of the best part of these forums (or what used to be, when I came here more) was the fact that we could have friendly debates/arguments about stuff like that, or other things, that really weren't realistic or in the books, and just discuss "what if"s for our enjoyment.
((And as an off-topic note, If you have a lot to say, put it all in one post. Posting back-to-back withyour self is obnoxious, rude, and most people here won't bother to listen to you if you continue to do it.And if you forgot something, you can edit your post for 15 minutes to put more into it if you need to. And Polls going, "Do you agree with me" are rather annoying as well.))
Last edited by Elessea on Oct 19th, 2007 at 08:02 PM
Well it wouldn't let me put it all in one post so I had to divide it up into 3.
I didn't think "Hey I know what I'll do, I'll divide it up JUST TO ANNOY people". I'm not obnoxious or rude, I just think it's stupid to argue about something that would never happen and obviously wasn't supposed to.
I do understand that the people that post them are doing them for fun though, I'm not a complete joy-killer. I just think that a forum about LOTR could be talking about more interesting things like the many battles of Tolkiens books, the missing wizards or how the Witch King controlled the weather while the fellowship were on Caradhras.
Also, I put that post up there to see what kind of people were on here. And if I managed to change anyone's opinion about this. I wasn't doing it with the intent to be annoying.
Well if you look through the threads on here, we discuss those things as well (or at least we did at one point). And if you really wanted to discuss something else, then why not add to one of those threads, or make one with a discussion you think is worth having, instead of complaining about the discussions other people find worth having.
As for it "not letting" you put everything in one post, try using the regular reply function instead of he quick response at the bottom of the page.
You know what, I don't think you did used to discuss those sorts of things, because if you did there would be been some replies to this thread that agreed with me, discussed the topic, or offered a relevant opinion. That hasn't happened so far. One positive feedback and two complaints.
I don't care if you don't believe me that it didn't let me put my posts into one. If you want to believe that I did it just to rub you up the wrong way that's your decision and your assumption, even though it's false.
Last edited by The Secret Fire on Oct 20th, 2007 at 09:04 AM
I said "used to" That would imply in the past, not now, before, once, etc. In case you hadn't noticed, the forum isn't exactly the liveliest place anymore, and chances are the few of us who've been here for ages have already discussed it. And if we haven't, then perhaps the fact that your post started out with a poll asking if we agreed with your opinions, is probably a turn off to reading the rest of your thread. And then the multiple-postings in a row probably don't help either.
Also, Anyone who's ever posted in the "Voldemore Vs. Gandalf!!" or whatever threads (which is most everyone here) would probably feel unwelcome to post in this thread, seeing as you kind of insult them and what they enjoy doing.
And as for my "not believing you". I simply was offering you a suggestion. If you hit the "Add REPLY" Button down in the corner, if may help solve your problem.
Honestly, if you want intelligant, polite, thought-provoking discussion, perhaps you should do the same, and make your post polite, and thought-provoking. Just a suggestion.
Whatever, a bit of controversy never hurt anyone. If I came on here with the same opinion as everyone else how bland would discussions be.
I didn't come to win any popularity contests, Melcórë. I came to discuss interesting things about the LOTR movies, I thought people on here wanted the same...
The reply button down the bottom and top still doesn't let me post long posts, Elessea. You said "we discuss those things as well (or at least we did at one point)" meaning that you still do or did and THAT's what I "noticed". You never said "used to" at any point.
I never said you didn't believe me Elessea, I said "IF you don't believe me". The reason I assumed you didn't believe me is because you said "As for it "not letting" you put everything in one post". You quoting me like that seems like you don't. Speak it out to yourself and put emphasis on the "not letting" me part. Now can you see it from my POV?
Thanks for your suggestions people. I can actually see how I come across as "standoffish" and "unpolite", although I'm still very new to this forum, it was never my intention. I never knew that multiple posting and polls that asks for people's positions in a debate would set them off. Now I do and won't post like that again.
Diversity is always "moderated" these days Melcórë, so don't feel bad.
Last edited by The Secret Fire on Oct 21st, 2007 at 03:29 AM
It isn't so much having a poll, perhaps I should have worded that differently. What i meant was instead of saying "Do you agree with my first three posts?" You should try putting actual choices of opinion in there. Like, "What's your opinion of Magic in the Lord of the Rings Series?" with choices like "I think it's really cool", "We shouldn't call it magic, because Gandalf wasn't just some sorceror", "OMG! Like, Voldemort is so much cooler cuz he's from harry potter yo!" and "I don't care. This is dumb." ((Not those exactly, but something along those lines. That way people know what it is they're discussing and voting for, and it makes it seem friendlier and more open then Hey! Do you agree with me? Again, just a suggestion.
And as for it not letting you put everything in one post, I'm out of ideas. You can try asking about it to one of the global mods, or I think there's a questions forum around here somewhere...
Again, I apologize if I come off unplesantly, that wasn't my intention, but I do get irritated easily sometimes. But Welcome of the Forum! It's always nice to see new faces around here, especailly when they're people who are really interested in discussing Lord of the Rings, as you seem to be. So, Welcome!
LOL - that's not what I meant at all, but I s'pose it is true.
I didn't mean to come off as restrictive in any manner, Sacred Fire. Yet, again, it seems that you are attacking us with your words. I am not bothered by your multiple posting, but by your apparent distaste for the opinions of others - this is what makes you appear standoffish.
All that being said, I actually agree with what you've said - if in a slightly less offensive manner.
Elessea, I didn't do a opinion-type poll as I figured people have such a range of opinions, there would be too many choices, and even then I might not get someones in there. Plus if they wanted to give their opnion about it they could just do a reply post.
Thanks for the welcome
Haha! Ok Melcórë, I'll try to be less offensive in my grammer
Thanks for your views guys. You can't always see things from your own position, sometimes you need others POV's. Thanks again