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Glorfindel vs Elrond
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BrandonNguyen42
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Glorfindel vs Elrond

Glorfindel vs Elrond who would win ?

Old Post Sep 2nd, 2009 01:20 AM
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xJLxKing
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Glorfindel. He has seen the Light(I think from the tree), and he has the showings to prove it. He defeated a Maia which is not an easy task. Not only that, but he has beaten the Maia without much trouble (till the end)


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2009 02:50 AM
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Incanus
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Dude, stfu Elrond has never been shown to fight, therefore this thread is irrelevant as no one knows how good he can fight.


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Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Old Post Sep 2nd, 2009 09:58 PM
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ares834
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Glorfindel, he killed a balrog.

Old Post Sep 2nd, 2009 10:06 PM
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xJLxKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Incanus
Dude, stfu Elrond has never been shown to fight, therefore this thread is irrelevant as no one knows how good he can fight.

Doesn't matter. The dude can't kill a Maia


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2009 10:24 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Incanus
Dude, stfu Elrond has never been shown to fight, therefore this thread is irrelevant as no one knows how good he can fight.
Your Thrawn vs. Revan thread is different?


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2009 05:45 AM
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Incanus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Your Thrawn vs. Revan thread is different?
It is due to the fact that both have feats relevant that are canon as to how good of a commander they are.


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Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Old Post Sep 3rd, 2009 08:19 PM
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Lord Lucien
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*going off-topic*

Revan has to his name battles he won and general methods he used. But Thrawn has those plus detailed sources telling us about his personal mentality and small-scale, specific feats. Revan lacks all those little additions that make for a detailed analysis (lack of material on canon's part).


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2009 08:47 PM
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leonheartmm
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id say he loses. he died killing a balrog.

Old Post Sep 4th, 2009 02:58 AM
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xJLxKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonheartmm
id say he loses. he died killing a balrog.

Not really. He had the Balrog at his mercy. One of the weapons that Glorfindel was using already had torn the Balrog's whip hand. A sword was also stuck on his other arm. Even the Balrog's belly was penetrated by a spear.

Glorfindel was clearly killing him. Though, at the last second, the Balrog griped his tight and pulled him down from the mountain together.


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2009 05:12 AM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonheartmm
id say he loses. he died killing a balrog.

And Elrond would done better... Killing a Balrog is an amazing feat, even if you die. Very few entities, either Ainur or Mortal, have a chance against a balrog. Afterall, Tolkien made it that there were no more than 7 balrogs in his later writings.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2009 12:40 AM
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Incanus
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But there were also enough balrogs to have made
A.) A section of Morgoths armies, which were number i the billions at the least
B.) Enough to have them be the front line guys after some orcs die, so they just run around and kill stuff
C.)Feanor was surrounded by more than 8 alone, and then there were far more
D.)They numbered about a thousand


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Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2009 01:07 PM
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xJLxKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Incanus
But there were also enough balrogs to have made
A.) A section of Morgoths armies, which were number i the billions at the least
B.) Enough to have them be the front line guys after some orcs die, so they just run around and kill stuff
C.)Feanor was surrounded by more than 8 alone, and then there were far more
D.)They numbered about a thousand

A Balrog is a Maiar and I doubt it was in billions.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2009 02:40 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Incanus
But there were also enough balrogs to have made
A.) A section of Morgoths armies, which were number i the billions at the least
B.) Enough to have them be the front line guys after some orcs die, so they just run around and kill stuff
C.)Feanor was surrounded by more than 8 alone, and then there were far more
D.)They numbered about a thousand

Tolkien was a retconning...

"The idea that Morgoth disposed of a 'host' of Balrogs endured long, but in a late note my father said that only very few ever existed - 'at most seven'."
BoLT2, The Fall of Gondolin

"There should not be supposed more than say 3 or at most 7 ever existed" HoME 10, Morgoth's Ring

Old Post Sep 5th, 2009 08:07 PM
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xJLxKing
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Even if there were a million of Balrog that does not mean they were weak. The fact that they are Maiar who have the ability to use all their power without becoming corrupt must tell you one thing. Not only that, but one was able to kill Gandalf.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2009 09:08 PM
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Incanus
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Ok, no one is paying any attention, so I wil lrepeat myself:
1.)Morgoths HORDES numbered in the billions, growing so large so that Anfauglith couldnt contain them
2.)Christopher Tolkien is not J.R.R. Tolkien, is he? If the words "at most seven or eight" were in J.R.R. Tolkiens words, then I dont consider them to be right, as in Unfinished Tales the number was a thousand
3.)A thousand is a small number compared to the actual size of the forces of Morgoth
4.)What happened to all the other maiar that joined Morgoth? Did they NOT become balrogs? what did they become then? dragons? orcs? I dont think so.
5.)NOT being corrupt? WTF. They are ALREADY corrupt, hence why they are balrogs, not Maia. A maia is no longer a maia when they become a blarog, because they are then demons not angels. God, get some sense.
6.)One could kill Gandalf when: A.)Gandalf was SEVERLY limited in his powers, B.) Gandalf used a sword and no magic, that movie **** about lightning, no. C.)Gandalf is a maia as well. DEAL WITH IT.
7.)You have yet to prove that Elrond could not kill one, as some could be killed by common soldiers, as happened in numeros battles.


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Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2009 10:42 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Incanus
Ok, no one is paying any attention, so I wil lrepeat myself:
1.)Morgoths HORDES numbered in the billions, growing so large so that Anfauglith couldnt contain them

Retconed
quote:
2.)Christopher Tolkien is not J.R.R. Tolkien, is he? If the words "at most seven or eight" were in J.R.R. Tolkiens words, then I dont consider them to be right, as in Unfinished Tales the number was a thousand

JRR Tolkien said it. And once again retcon.
quote:
3.)A thousand is a small number compared to the actual size of the forces of Morgoth

Your point...
quote:
4.)What happened to all the other maiar that joined Morgoth? Did they NOT become balrogs? what did they become then? dragons? orcs? I dont think so.

Werewolves, vampires, perhaps dragons, perhaps orc kings like Boldog, and all other types of monsters.
quote:
6.)One could kill Gandalf when: A.)Gandalf was SEVERLY limited in his powers

He was not severly limited from his powers he was simply banned from using his full might against Sauron he may have used it all to take down the Balrog.
quote:
B.) Gandalf used a sword and no magic, that movie **** about lightning, no.

He usedd magic... He placed a spell on the door to stop the Balrog advancing and the Balrog counter spelled it. He later on brok the bridge. After that we can't say for certain whether he used magic or not.
quote:
7.)You have yet to prove that Elrond could not kill one, as some could be killed by common soldiers, as happened in numeros battles.

Prove that Elrond could kill one.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2009 02:51 AM
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Incanus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Retconed

JRR Tolkien said it. And once again retcon.



Prove



Your point...

Werewolves, vampires, perhaps dragons, perhaps orc kings like Boldog, and all other types of monsters.





No, they were created by Morgoth, the balrogs, were not, and there is no friggin way a maiar is an orc, since they are all elves.






He was not severly limited from his powers he was simply banned from using his full might against Sauron he may have used it all to take down the Balrog.



No, in taking on the flesh of Arda, they would not be able to bring thewir full strength to bear, as well as Aman only being a vision.


He usedd magic... He placed a spell on the door to stop the Balrog advancing and the Balrog counter spelled it. He later on brok the bridge. After that we can't say for certain whether he used magic or not.



Ok, yes, he did use magic to keep the door shut for a few moments, forgot that, But no, he didnt break the bridge, the balrog stepped on it. Im pretty sure something that BIG, must be heavy enough to break the bridge.

Prove that Elrond could kill one.

God, you idiot, I JUST SAID THAT TO YOU. You are proving you are losing and yet you refuse to admit it to yourself.


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Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2009 03:30 AM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Incanus No, they were created by Morgoth, the balrogs, were not, and there is no friggin way a maiar is an orc, since they are all elves.
"Boldog is a name that occurs many times in the tales of the War. But it is possible that Boldog was not a personal name, and either a title, or else the name of a kind of creature: the Orc-formed Maiar, only less formidable than the Balrogs" "Melkor had corrupted many spirits some great as Sauron, or less as Balrogs. The least could have been primitive Orcs."
Also dragons were said to have a fell spirit inside them now whether this is a maia or essence of Morgoth is unkown but a case can be made either way.
quote:
No, in taking on the flesh of Arda, they would not be able to bring thewir full strength to bear, as well as Aman only being a vision

Perhaps.
quote:
Ok, yes, he did use magic to keep the door shut for a few moments, forgot that, But no, he didnt break the bridge, the balrog stepped on it. Im pretty sure something that BIG, must be heavy enough to break the bridge.

"At that moment Gandalf lifted his staff, and crying aloud he smote the bridge before him. The staff broke
asunder and fell from his hand. A blinding sheet of white flame sprang up. The bridge cracked. Right at
the Balrog's feet it broke"
quote:
God, you idiot, I JUST SAID THAT TO YOU. You are proving you are losing and yet you refuse to admit it to yourself.
Elrond has no feats as a warrior, there is no way he could kill a Balrog.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2009 04:16 PM
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Incanus
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Ah, but who knows the exact circumstances of Glorfindels fight? He also
A.)When confronting the Nine, he was on elvish land, and they were crossing an elvish river.
B.)Spirits is the keyword. I have no doubt that the less corrupted ones were orcs king, but there were never billions of maiar to begin with. There was 1 maiar/orc, and you named him. Dragons and their fell spirit, only Glaurung or Ancalagont the Black would have been powerful enough to be Maiar, and they wernt, they carried the essence of Morgoth.
C.)Dude, you just contradicted yourself,"Right AT THE BALROGS FEET" Meaning the balrog was on it. Sure, there is a little to suggest Gandalf helped it, but no, he didnt break it, the balrog did.
D.)Glorfindel has no feats either, he is like Revan. We know he did something, but we dont know the circumstances. He could have thrown the spear and weapons. Prove he didnt.
E.)No the balrog didnt counter spell it, it had a will greater than Gandalfs and stopped him from keeping the door shut on top of breaking it down.


__________________
Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Last edited by Incanus on Sep 7th, 2009 at 04:08 AM

Old Post Sep 7th, 2009 04:06 AM
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