Glorfindel. He has seen the Light(I think from the tree), and he has the showings to prove it. He defeated a Maia which is not an easy task. Not only that, but he has beaten the Maia without much trouble (till the end)
Dude, stfu Elrond has never been shown to fight, therefore this thread is irrelevant as no one knows how good he can fight.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
It is due to the fact that both have feats relevant that are canon as to how good of a commander they are.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
Revan has to his name battles he won and general methods he used. But Thrawn has those plus detailed sources telling us about his personal mentality and small-scale, specific feats. Revan lacks all those little additions that make for a detailed analysis (lack of material on canon's part).
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Not really. He had the Balrog at his mercy. One of the weapons that Glorfindel was using already had torn the Balrog's whip hand. A sword was also stuck on his other arm. Even the Balrog's belly was penetrated by a spear.
Glorfindel was clearly killing him. Though, at the last second, the Balrog griped his tight and pulled him down from the mountain together.
And Elrond would done better... Killing a Balrog is an amazing feat, even if you die. Very few entities, either Ainur or Mortal, have a chance against a balrog. Afterall, Tolkien made it that there were no more than 7 balrogs in his later writings.
But there were also enough balrogs to have made
A.) A section of Morgoths armies, which were number i the billions at the least
B.) Enough to have them be the front line guys after some orcs die, so they just run around and kill stuff
C.)Feanor was surrounded by more than 8 alone, and then there were far more
D.)They numbered about a thousand
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
"The idea that Morgoth disposed of a 'host' of Balrogs endured long, but in a late note my father said that only very few ever existed - 'at most seven'."
BoLT2, The Fall of Gondolin
"There should not be supposed more than say 3 or at most 7 ever existed" HoME 10, Morgoth's Ring
Even if there were a million of Balrog that does not mean they were weak. The fact that they are Maiar who have the ability to use all their power without becoming corrupt must tell you one thing. Not only that, but one was able to kill Gandalf.
Ok, no one is paying any attention, so I wil lrepeat myself:
1.)Morgoths HORDES numbered in the billions, growing so large so that Anfauglith couldnt contain them
2.)Christopher Tolkien is not J.R.R. Tolkien, is he? If the words "at most seven or eight" were in J.R.R. Tolkiens words, then I dont consider them to be right, as in Unfinished Tales the number was a thousand
3.)A thousand is a small number compared to the actual size of the forces of Morgoth
4.)What happened to all the other maiar that joined Morgoth? Did they NOT become balrogs? what did they become then? dragons? orcs? I dont think so.
5.)NOT being corrupt? WTF. They are ALREADY corrupt, hence why they are balrogs, not Maia. A maia is no longer a maia when they become a blarog, because they are then demons not angels. God, get some sense.
6.)One could kill Gandalf when: A.)Gandalf was SEVERLY limited in his powers, B.) Gandalf used a sword and no magic, that movie **** about lightning, no. C.)Gandalf is a maia as well. DEAL WITH IT.
7.)You have yet to prove that Elrond could not kill one, as some could be killed by common soldiers, as happened in numeros battles.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
Werewolves, vampires, perhaps dragons, perhaps orc kings like Boldog, and all other types of monsters.
He was not severly limited from his powers he was simply banned from using his full might against Sauron he may have used it all to take down the Balrog.
He usedd magic... He placed a spell on the door to stop the Balrog advancing and the Balrog counter spelled it. He later on brok the bridge. After that we can't say for certain whether he used magic or not.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
"Boldog is a name that occurs many times in the tales of the War. But it is possible that Boldog was not a personal name, and either a title, or else the name of a kind of creature: the Orc-formed Maiar, only less formidable than the Balrogs" "Melkor had corrupted many spirits — some great as Sauron, or less as Balrogs. The least could have been primitive Orcs."
Also dragons were said to have a fell spirit inside them now whether this is a maia or essence of Morgoth is unkown but a case can be made either way.
Perhaps.
"At that moment Gandalf lifted his staff, and crying aloud he smote the bridge before him. The staff broke
asunder and fell from his hand. A blinding sheet of white flame sprang up. The bridge cracked. Right at
the Balrog's feet it broke"
Elrond has no feats as a warrior, there is no way he could kill a Balrog.
Ah, but who knows the exact circumstances of Glorfindels fight? He also
A.)When confronting the Nine, he was on elvish land, and they were crossing an elvish river.
B.)Spirits is the keyword. I have no doubt that the less corrupted ones were orcs king, but there were never billions of maiar to begin with. There was 1 maiar/orc, and you named him. Dragons and their fell spirit, only Glaurung or Ancalagont the Black would have been powerful enough to be Maiar, and they wernt, they carried the essence of Morgoth.
C.)Dude, you just contradicted yourself,"Right AT THE BALROGS FEET" Meaning the balrog was on it. Sure, there is a little to suggest Gandalf helped it, but no, he didnt break it, the balrog did.
D.)Glorfindel has no feats either, he is like Revan. We know he did something, but we dont know the circumstances. He could have thrown the spear and weapons. Prove he didnt.
E.)No the balrog didnt counter spell it, it had a will greater than Gandalfs and stopped him from keeping the door shut on top of breaking it down.
__________________ Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.
Last edited by Incanus on Sep 7th, 2009 at 04:08 AM
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Sep 2nd, 2009 01:20 AM
