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Smaug vs Sauron
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Time Immemorial
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Smaug vs Sauron

Without PIS, CIS or any bullshit about losing his ring.

Sauron full power with TOR.

Could Smaug take him?

Book feats only.

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 02:42 AM
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Time Immemorial
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Also Smaug's exploitable weakness is off as well.

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 03:25 AM
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ares834
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No. Sauron kicks his ass or, more likely, gets a powerful new minion.


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Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 04:14 AM
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Time Immemorial
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Right on

Old Post Apr 14th, 2015 05:16 AM
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AncientPower
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This is a total stomp, the Dark Lord gets a new ride.


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Old Post Apr 15th, 2015 03:59 AM
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Jmanghan
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...Smaug could just fly around and breath fire at him while taunting him.


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Old Post Apr 17th, 2015 05:42 AM
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Jmanghan
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Smaug could also eat him.


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Old Post Apr 17th, 2015 05:42 AM
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Genesis-Soldier
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finally i can use book feats... this is simple, saurons might as a Valar amplified by the one ring VS smaugs will and lust. the dark lord does take the fire drake within minutes even if smaug tries to resist. physically sauron doesnt have to do anything because his powers are magnified, yes sauron can dominate weak minded/ wille creatures automatically and smaug is pretty good against that. Sauron and his magic infiltrate smaugs lust for gold and all that gleams


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Old Post Apr 17th, 2015 09:11 AM
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Jmanghan
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...Again, Smaug can just fly around and burn him to death while calling him a lil *****.

I se absolutely NO reason why this isn't a possibility, and YES, I fully believe he can kill Sauron with just fire before the Dark Rider dragon's show up. (I forgot their name, **** off xD)


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Old Post Apr 17th, 2015 02:33 PM
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AncientPower
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You desperately need to read the Silmarillion. Firstly, Smaug's fire is completely inadequate against the Dark Lord. Secondly, even the breath of Ancalagon the black is said by Gandalf to be ineffective against the One.

The Ring increases Sauron's power and he is already on the tier of Gothmog, chief of the Balrogs in Morgoth's army before he ever creates the rings.
FYI the Balrogs' whips were used to command the dragons in the first place, the Balrogs were considerably more powerful than the mountain crushing, sun blocking Ancalagon, greatest of all dragons.

So essentially, Gothmog & Sauron > other Balrogs > first age Dragons > Smaug.


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Old Post Apr 18th, 2015 12:09 PM
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Jmanghan
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Yes, but why? Smaug could easily kill the Nazgul, since Aragorn also almost did so himself with just a torch.

Now, I know Sauron is at least a tier or two above the Nazgul. But, it doesn't make sense that Smaug could potentially stomp them all at the same time, but then, for some reason, Sauron is completely and totally invulnerable to Smaug's fire.

Not saying I disagree with you, just saying it doesn't make sense.


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Old Post Apr 18th, 2015 01:59 PM
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AncientPower
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The Wraiths aren't even a fraction of Sauron's power, they are nothing more than undead thralls to his will. The sense is there you simply misunderstand the logic. Sauron is a demi-god, Smaug is just another drake from the north.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2015 01:16 AM
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Mindset
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
You desperately need to read the Silmarillion. Firstly, Smaug's fire is completely inadequate against the Dark Lord. Secondly, even the breath of Ancalagon the black is said by Gandalf to be ineffective against the One.

The Ring increases Sauron's power and he is already on the tier of Gothmog, chief of the Balrogs in Morgoth's army before he ever creates the rings.
FYI the Balrogs' whips were used to command the dragons in the first place, the Balrogs were considerably more powerful than the mountain crushing, sun blocking Ancalagon, greatest of all dragons.

So essentially, Gothmog & Sauron > other Balrogs > first age Dragons > Smaug.
That Balrog that took on Gandalf could take Smaug?

That doesn't seem right.

I haven't read the LotR books though.


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Old Post May 1st, 2015 02:22 AM
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StealthRanger
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Sauron's more powerful than Osse who moved a country around

He stomps Smaug into the dust


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Old Post May 1st, 2015 12:32 PM
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Jmanghan
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I can't see Sauron beating Gothmog or Morgoth, though.


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Old Post May 1st, 2015 05:01 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
The Ring increases Sauron's power and he is already on the tier of Gothmog, chief of the Balrogs in Morgoth's army before he ever creates the rings.
FYI the Balrogs' whips were used to command the dragons in the first place, the Balrogs were considerably more powerful than the mountain crushing, sun blocking Ancalagon, greatest of all dragons.

So essentially, Gothmog & Sauron > other Balrogs > first age Dragons > Smaug.


erm

Nah. Glaurung, for example, was commanding Balrogs. And I'd say Anacalgon is well beyond even Gothmog.


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Old Post May 1st, 2015 06:12 PM
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Lord Stark
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AncientPower
The Wraiths aren't even a fraction of Sauron's power, they are nothing more than undead thralls to his will. The sense is there you simply misunderstand the logic. Sauron is a demi-god, Smaug is just another drake from the north.


Pretty much this. If you use movie feats then the Witch King was undoubtedly amped by Saruon's power. The Wraiths are as powerful as Sauron wants them to be.


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Old Post May 9th, 2015 07:15 PM
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Kaldin
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Sauron was weaker in the second age after the drowning, first age Sauron is stronger then Sauron with the ring (besides perhaps Sauron with the ring before the 'drowning').
Gorthaur/Annatar/Sauron in the Third Age was capable of:

- Manipulating whole environments with his evil (Mordor as a whole, but more specifically Mount Doom)

- Generating weather alterations across distances of at least "three hundred leagues" (Tolkien perceived leagues in his 'verse as equivalent to three miles; so at least 900 miles/1448 kilometres); affects the entire Anduin region (the open expanse between the Misty Mountains and the great forest of Mirkwood, easily several hundred miles long) with hailstorms and lightning.

- Seems to have a power known as "shrouding" (also possessed by Morgoth and Ungoliant) that enables Sauron to cast mental darkness across entire regions (Emyn Muil [a mountainous region that measured 75 miles in width and 100 miles in length] was completely affected by this ability) that prevents any form of foresight or long-distance communication from reaching those areas (Gandalf could not summon the Eagles to assist Frodo and Sam when they were trapped in Emyn Muil, while Elrond could not use foresight to read into the Mountains of Shadow)

- Engaged in a battle of mental dominance with Gandalf the Grey from several hundred miles away, and nearly succeeded in corrupting Frodo Baggins with the One Ring's influence.

- The Battle of the Morannon/Black Gates revealed that the only reason for Sauron's hordes of thousands of orcs, Trolls and other "fell" creatures having such determination and will in combat was due to the mental influence of the Dark Lord himself: indicating that he can manipulate the minds of thousands of creatures across several hundred to thousands of miles from Barad-dur.

- Could release a plague that wiped out the entire royal family in Gondor and "great numbers" of the region's population, simply to remove garrisons situated on Mordor's borders and gain access to unmanned fortifications like Cirith Ungol.

Back in the Second Age, he could:

-Tank numerous bolts of lightning cast by Manwe's storm that instantly killed Numenoreans and set the dome of Numenor's chief temple to Morgoth ablaze.

- Could produce sufficient heat from his hands that he immolated and "destroyed" the body of Gil-Galad, a upper mid-tier/lower high-tier Elf Lord, upon immediate touch.

In the First Age, he managed to:

- Be capable of shape-shifting, transforming into the second most-powerful werewolf in existence, a serpent, a "monster" (vague account indeed) and a vampire all in quick succession.

- Fought in a handicap against a Maia/Elf hybrid in Luthien (whose magic was even able to affect Morgoth) and the greatest hound in history Huan: his mere entrance caused Huan to jump back in fear, and the latter only struck when Sauron was swayed by the magical properties of Luthien's cloak when he attempted to kill her immediately. His howls could be heard across the hills of Ered Wethrin, and it is known that similar noises made by Huan and Carcharoth in their battle moved and tore apart boulders.

- Besieged and took the citadel of Tol Sirion single-handedly, forcing Orodreth (a member of the House of Finarfin, his uncle being Finrod Felagund and his great-uncle being Fingolfin himself) to flee the fortress in defeat.

He is comparable in power if not more so then Osse and his wife Uinen, Eonwe the Herald of Manwe, and Melian.
One of Osse's feats is the fact that he lifted Numenor, a island the size of a mid-sized country, out of the sea floor as a reward to the nice humans that had decided to help the Valar in the War of Wrath.
This feat was not taxing, not draining, and it was done effortlessly.
He's stronger than all Maiar but Eonwe.
KaiserWombat on Naruto Forums did a calc for Sauron's Ered Wethrin feat. Check it out if you want. http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=18555

I'd bet even third age Sauron could stomp Smaug (it's a misconception going around because of the movies that he was merely a great 'Eye,' when in fact, he wasn't at all in the books, and he had a physical form).

Old Post Jun 3rd, 2015 03:06 AM
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