I would really love to see these two in a scene together just to see what they'll think of each other. They kinda act similar in terms of having that icy cold and nonchalant demeanor but who do you think is worse or more despicable?
Far as the show has shown, Tywin. Roose is a betrayer, but given the context, that doesn't stand out much. Tywin has ordered the butcher of children.
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Well, Roose has more enjoyment in distasteful matters. With Tywin, he just does what he believes is logical. He doesn't enjoy any of the acts. Roose also happens to be restrained more (usually by Winterfell). Given the freedom to do so, he and his house would do some pretty ****ed up things. His house takes pride in torture after all. I'd say Roose is more despicable. The Red Wedding is just a taste of the shit he's capable of when he's unshackled (Tywin being the one to unshackle him in this case).
Tywin is a worse enemy to have though, because he is damn smart and will do whatever he has to to get the job done. I wouldn't say he's vile. He even has some admirable qualities. That said, he's not a good guy either. He seems like a Chaotic Neutral (or a Lawful Evil) type character. Roose and his house just seem Chaotic Evil.
Tywin commits atrocities for the good of his family.
Roose is more restrained than his animalistic son or inhuman rape tornadoes like Gregor Clegane, but he drops hints every now and then that he commits atrocities not merely because he feels he has to, but also because he enjoys it.
Think back to when Jaime and Brienne stayed at Harrenhal under his care. When he brought them to eat with him, he gave Jaime, who now only had one hand, a hard to cut steak and took personal glee in watching the once proud and powerful warrior struggle to so much as eat his ****ing food. And with Brienne, a very tall, and brawny woman whose occupation is typically filled by men, she is given a very garish, unflattering dress. Simply to mock her. By contrast, Tywin's only truly needlessly cruel acts concern his son Tyrion, but Tywin has a reason for these actions. Not a good reason mind you, but a more humanizing one. Speaking of humanizing, recall Tywin's rather cordial interactions with Arya in the show. Can anyone here picture Roose doing as much?
Plus there's this:
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Look at that creepy as **** smile.
Tywin is a bad man. Roose is possibly a sociopath.
I've spoken with a buddy of mine on this topic, concerning some similar characters.
Tywin gravitates between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil. Roose is firmly planted in Lawful Evil. He abides by certain rules placed on him only because he is intelligent and wise enough to know that his own monstrous nature would not be tolerated in Westeros (This is the defining difference between him and his son).
On another note, in the book at least, Gregor Clegane is worse than all of them.
I agree. A simple way to put it is that Tywin is ruthless. Utterly ruthless. However, he approaches everything but Tyrion in a detached, cold, logical demeanor.
House Lannister wiped out House Reyne(Rains of Castamere fame) because they'd rebelled against his father and his father was a weak man. So he wiped them out to not only save his family, but to prove a point and he wiped them completely out so there wouldn't be any Rob Starks. No Reyne's coming back for revenge.
Everything he's done has been for a good reason, at least from his standpoint. And from any standpoint, it's always been a cold sort of tactical reasoning.
Roose on the other hand is just a sadistic guy who enjoys seeing others suffer.
Tywin is the guy who'd order your torture because it served a purpose like gaining information or demoralizing your friends when they found you.
Roose is the guy who would personally torture because it rustles his jimmies.
Well said! Thats all pretty much my thoughts except articulated better.
Except for Ser Gregor. From what I've read so far, Gregor is pretty terrible. I'm not sure if he's as bad as Roose or his bastard but I haven't seen everything yet. I just get the impression that he's a restrained psycho, kind of like Roose and his family. Then again, I'm not caught up so maybe he does worse. So far, I know of what he's done to the Martells, and the random bar wench he raped while her father watched. That, and the villages he's reduced to ash and corpses. Nothing I cant see Roose or Ramsey doing. Roose raped Ramsey's mother after all. Still not as much as The Mountain, but being Lord the Dreadfort has more restrictions than being a lap dog. Ramsey, on the other hand, is a step above Roose (and Gregor, I think) on both murder and rape, and the glee he finds in those matters.
From what I've read online, it's implied that Gregor has a tumor/growth in his head that makes him crazy/sadistic and unable to feel empathy. Ramsey just enjoys it because his definition of fun. Roose is probably in the same category as Ramsey, except more restricted.
Though of them all, the main characters seem to fear Roose more than anyone. Just look at the quotes on Rooses wiki page. Everyone feared Roose. Jamie, Robb, Theon, Cat, (etc...). Even after everything Ramsey did to Theon, Theon considered Ramsey nothing more than a shadow of Roose. I think Roose may actually be the worse of them all, though he keeps it well hidden.
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Last edited by Arachnid1 on Feb 21st, 2014 at 05:57 PM
I rank Gregor above Roose and Ramsay on the "evilness" meter simply because, at the end of the day, they're more human.
Gregor is an inhuman beast in human skin who does hilarious things like smash babies into walls and rape and kill the mother with the child's brains lathered into his hands, and then has to be reminded that he did it. Forgetting something like this would be understandable considering how many people Gregor kills and rapes, except these particular victims were Elia of Dorne and Aegon Targaryen, wife of the prince and the heir to the throne after Rhaegar, respectively.
An interesting thing about Roose is [SPOILER - highlight to read]: that he knows full well that Ramsay can't actually succeed him, because he's far too obviously unstable and ****ed-up. He has a big speech in the books about how his house is probably going to die out because of it.
And yet he still betrayed Robb and usurped his position just for the hell of it. Even though he knows the Boltons won't hold it. Arachnids quotes have the right of it, Roose is just a well concealed sociopath who likes to burn ants for his mild amusement.
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Feb 21st, 2014 12:21 AM
