Please tell me if I missed something but at the end of episode II, we can
see holographic plans for the DEATH STAR. But in the Jedi Academy trilogy, we learn that the death star has been designed at the Maw
Installation which was created by Grand Moff Tarkin during Imperial
times.
Since the Jedi Academy trilogy was written years before, the death star
shouden't appear in Episode II.
Could this be a mistake by George Lucas or is this meant to be?
before you go around saying Lucas makes stupid mistakes,
get your facts straight Darth Revan!
Books, games, comics, etc. mean NOTHING, it's bull, it's rubbish, pure crap... ... well, when it comes to the movies
the only 100% canon source there is, is the movie,
if it contradicts a book, so be it, the book is wrong, the movie never is
the only OTHER +/- canon sources around are the novelisations of the movies (unless it contradicts the movie) and the radio dramas
Yeah but if Lucasfilm knew the movies will contradict anything that has been written, theirs no point in licensing the books, games and comics
especially when the stories they tell stick together.
Its as if the fans dont count.
__________________ I know what you're thinking punk. You're thinking: "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya punk?
so? books, games, ... are just to make money, they are just situated in the sw galaxy and that's it, they hold zero credibility
they are made to entertain us while we wait for the new movies, that's it
I am asking this as a star wars fan.
If I follow the star wars saga, do I follow the stories that the movies
tell or all the other stories from the books, comics or video games?
__________________ I know what you're thinking punk. You're thinking: "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya punk?
don't listen to them Dirty Vader. They're part of a breed of anti-EU people. The Star Wars community is pretty split on whether or not its worth anything. Everything New Jedi Order on, has had to meet Lucas' personal approval, this includes all major plot points that intersect the movies. Most of the time it doesn't really matter because it either will barely impact the film, or simply expand on an idea. this also goes for the Republic and Empire comics (but not Tales, even the darkhorse site says its essentially fan fiction). BUT, all books before that met with limited Lucas contact and as such, I'm sorry to agree with Finiti and Yerssot, means nothing. BUT since you asked an EU question I'll give you and EU answer that shouldn't anger Yerssot or Finiti too much (although I'm sure they'll find something wrong with it anyway ). The Death Star's initial creation, even in the EU, is somewhat mysterious. The general idea seems to be that Tarkin took the idea from an engineer from Sinear Fleet Systems who also designed the TIE engine between episodes I and II (whether or not this is used is still up in the air movie wise). This was finally shown in the novel Rogue Planet, which was written after Lucas books launched the New Jedi Order, except it takes place between I and II, is about Anakin and Obi-wan, and eventually intersects the NJO series. this idea does connect to the Maw instillation you mentioned. Now, whether or not Rogue Planet is "canon" remains to be seen. If any of it is used in III, then it is. If its not used in III but isn't contradicted either, than its canon for those who follow and accept the EU. If it is contradicted, then its crap. But since Lucas had to personally approve it, i don't think he will contradict it. Now, Lucas is making up the details for the prequels as he writes them. Listen to the EpII commentary on DVD to hear what he initially wanted Boba to be. he changes his mind while he writes it based on what he thinks the film needs. Most of AOTC was from Pickups, like most of the beginning and the Droid Factory Chase. So, if GL has actually come up with the idea the Tarkin is credited with the Death Star, and that Tarkin in fact stole the idea for his own, then it might get a quick mention in III. If GL doesn't address this at all, then this fight could go on until we are all old and grey. My timeline for the Death, pieced from books and film goes as follows, first that guy designed it (whose name I can't remember) during the decade between TPM and AOTC. Also during this time Tarkin, who's in command of a Republic security squad, meets this guy and takes the plans from him. He then must have given them to Palpatine for whatever reason. he may even be in on helping Sidious rise to power, as the suggestion seems to be that Sidious has much influence in government and many orginizations that are willing to help his cause for power later. Sidious then planned to have the geonosians build it, since the obviously are quite the little engineers cranking out all those droids. But with what happened there, he would not want them involved anymore. So as we saw, Dooku takes them. Sidious and Dooku are conning everyone helping them right now, they may have never actually intended for the Geonosians to help, but merely wanted them to feel important and earn their trust. the plans go back to Coruscant, and as far as I can tell, become Imperial plans, with the Empire being the only credited creator and Tarkin, for his initial assistance, is given control of its construction. But again, this is all from EU, and we'll have to wait and see in III if any of it is used or explained. the fact that the same idea occurs so often, and has been a part of SW lore for so long, I think pieces of it must have come from Lucas, but I'm not sure how much of it will actually be used, if any.
sorry that was so long, just wanted to give him a good answer and include things that might placate yerssot and finiti into not tearing it apart later. Have at it, please, not in the face!
I'm not anti-EU, I have lots of books and comics and such, just that if you discuss something about the movies, then the books and such mean nothing, that's how it is, and that's how everyone knows it works.
Well, meph, they do have to be careful about the comics, they can't kill someone in the republic series if that jedi, ie, has a small role in EpIII!
And don't say EU is canon simply because a book doesn't contradict the movies, EU IS canon!
Lots of people think that Lucas himself personally approves everything, that's not the case! He doesn't read them nor comment on them, in just SOME cases he vetos like, when someone wanted to kill of Ackbar, he vetoed, that's about everything he does, he doesn't read them all!
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
Sorry, mephisto, but we keep having to repeat this. You say whether Rogue Planet is canon 'remains to be seen'.
Incorrect, it is Lucasfilm's policy that it is NOT canon- and your opinion, and anyone else's opinion, will never, ever, ever change that. It is not a matter of opinion but of fact. If any of it is used in the films, even then, only that part seen in the films is canon.
I am not anti-Eu and whether anyone else is or not is not the issue. The only issue is that EU is NOT canon.
Therefore there is no contradiction- do not compare EU plotlines with the films, the EU does not occupy the same continuity.
As for a split, that is not relevant here either- the fan base is not, at all, split on wherther the EU IS canon. That cannot be debated so there is no split. What it is split on is whether the EU SHOULD be canon- a whole different concept. And an argument I do not want repeated here- tiresome and pointless and not releavnt to this section.
The argument of whether the EU has any value is even less relevant in a section about the films only. But yerssot is a good example here of a fan who likes the EU just fine- at least parts of it- but simply acknowledges the facts; this is not EU-bashing but facing reality. This is no statement on its value at all.
If Lucasfilm's policy changes then other things change but as it stands, EU is not canon, there is no contradiction.
Dirty Vader- as a fan, follow whatever you like. Just remember that the EU has its OWN continuity removed from that of the films. That doesn't make the EU less valid or worthwhile- simply different. A difference we must acknowledge here.
That being the case, if there is no more comment RELEVANT TO THE SUBJECT (argument on whether EU is or is not canon, or should be, is not relevant- it is NOT canon and the argument of 'should' has no bearing), this question is answered and the thread will close.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Oct 30th, 2003 at 12:19 AM
The mere fact that you guys are having a discussion whether the licensed books have any continuity with the movies, tells a lot about how George Lucas handles his Star Wars licensing. GL sucks in it.
And if what Yerssot says about GL not reading all of the materials his company licensed has any truth in it; GL sucks even more!
I mean, this is his universe, he created it. He should at least have half of the passion of a Star Wars Fan to read all of the materials. I know I would.
I guess he has truly sucumb to the dark side of money making.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
No, he is just happy for people to expand upon the ideas he created so long as it is acknowledged that such expansion does not impinge upon his own plot line and continuity. This, of course, directly contrasts with The Matrix, where all the 'EU' is VERY canon, as confirmed by the makers. It is just a different approach; either way it is justified marketing. And a lot of die hard SW fans- like Finti- don't read any of the books.
Anyway, the thread is done then. Answer is:
Films do not maintain continuity with EU. Hence no contradiction.
Closing.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Oct 29th, 2003 04:39 AM
). The Death Star's initial creation, even in the EU, is somewhat mysterious. The general idea seems to be that Tarkin took the idea from an engineer from Sinear Fleet Systems who also designed the TIE engine between episodes I and II (whether or not this is used is still up in the air movie wise). This was finally shown in the novel Rogue Planet, which was written after Lucas books launched the New Jedi Order, except it takes place between I and II, is about Anakin and Obi-wan, and eventually intersects the NJO series. this idea does connect to the Maw instillation you mentioned. Now, whether or not Rogue Planet is "canon" remains to be seen. If any of it is used in III, then it is. If its not used in III but isn't contradicted either, than its canon for those who follow and accept the EU. If it is contradicted, then its crap. But since Lucas had to personally approve it, i don't think he will contradict it. Now, Lucas is making up the details for the prequels as he writes them. Listen to the EpII commentary on DVD to hear what he initially wanted Boba to be. he changes his mind while he writes it based on what he thinks the film needs. Most of AOTC was from Pickups, like most of the beginning and the Droid Factory Chase. So, if GL has actually come up with the idea the Tarkin is credited with the Death Star, and that Tarkin in fact stole the idea for his own, then it might get a quick mention in III. If GL doesn't address this at all, then this fight could go on until we are all old and grey. My timeline for the Death, pieced from books and film goes as follows, first that guy designed it (whose name I can't remember) during the decade between TPM and AOTC. Also during this time Tarkin, who's in command of a Republic security squad, meets this guy and takes the plans from him. He then must have given them to Palpatine for whatever reason. he may even be in on helping Sidious rise to power, as the suggestion seems to be that Sidious has much influence in government and many orginizations that are willing to help his cause for power later. Sidious then planned to have the geonosians build it, since the obviously are quite the little engineers cranking out all those droids. But with what happened there, he would not want them involved anymore. So as we saw, Dooku takes them. Sidious and Dooku are conning everyone helping them right now, they may have never actually intended for the Geonosians to help, but merely wanted them to feel important and earn their trust. the plans go back to Coruscant, and as far as I can tell, become Imperial plans, with the Empire being the only credited creator and Tarkin, for his initial assistance, is given control of its construction. But again, this is all from EU, and we'll have to wait and see in III if any of it is used or explained. the fact that the same idea occurs so often, and has been a part of SW lore for so long, I think pieces of it must have come from Lucas, but I'm not sure how much of it will actually be used, if any.
