"Too sure of themselves they are, even the older more experience ones"
In episode II Yoda makes this comment about how the younger Jedi's are to arrogant, but also referring to the older ones. If you tie it all together Yoda was right the Jedi's where all too sure of themselves. In EP.1 Qui-Gon was sure that young anakin wasn't dangerous and his future wasn't cloudy(he was wrong). In EP.VI Obi-Wan told Luke that he was sure he could instruct Anakin better then Yoda(he was wrong). Anakin was way to sure of himself in EP.II believing he was already ahead of every Jedi(he was wrong). Luke was sure in EP.V he could save Han and Lea despite Yoda and Obi-Wan comments(he was wrong). So I ask what Jedi or Jedi's are going to be to full of themselves in EP.III?
My money's on Windu, he's gonna be way to sure that he can take out sidious by himself and is gonna pay big time
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: the bad side of the moon
"Anakin was way to sure of himself in EP.II believing he was already ahead of every Jedi(he was wrong). Luke was sure in EP.V he could save Han and Lea despite Yoda and Obi-Wan comments(he was wrong). So I ask what Jedi or Jedi's are going to be to full of themselves in EP.III?"
they both were right... ani is ahead of alot of the jedi because he is more powerful, and luke did save han and leia, well not han , but leia and then payed the price by getting his hand whaked off.
but i would imagine mace being a little over confident and then getting his black ass whooped. i dont understand how and why the jedi have survived for millenia being this stupid.
I think your on the right track. Although I don't think he could have been referring to any future mistakes, ie. Luke. I know nothing about Mace or how is taken out. But I would say that he already appears over confident. I see that he will die not because of his over confidence but because he is just flat out beating by skill.
I think your right Space. Although we need to separate confidence and cockiness. I think it's OK to have confidence, but with that should come humbleness. It causes problems if you get cocky, which is how I see some of the Jedi.
OK first off, when Yoda said that he was talking very specifically about OB1. He was referring to how "sure" OB1 was that Ani couldnt handle his own mission. Basically it was Yoda's way of saying, "STFU and know your place in the pecking order." And that he should give his padawan some just dues and the respect that he deserves.
Secondly, Leia, Lando, and Chewie, saved Luke...not the other way around. I remember Leia saying go back and Lando catching Luke as his powerless body fell to the Falcon.
Mace is also clouded by anger, which is why he goes after Palpatine. I mean if you found out the head of the governement was the sworn enemy of the Jedi, would you not rush into battle and trust the force would be with you?
__________________ "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the force."
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: The Unknown Regions
Yeah, Luke did nothing in Cloud City except learn that Vader was his father and get his hand chopped off. Like Spear said, he didn't save Leia or anyone else, that was Lando's doing. Everything would've been fine had Luke not run off chasing visions. Perhaps you need to watch the movie again?
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Utah of Australia ~haermm~
i dont think mace is angry. look at his face in the trailer. the shot where he lifts his saber up, he looks determined, not angry. the other shot where he swings his saber, hes just caught up in the battle.
__________________
Some things money can't buy... ...for everything else, there's Barkercard.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Moderator
"Qui-Gon was sure that young anakin wasn't dangerous and his future wasn't cloudy(he was wrong)."
Untrue! When making theory it is as well to be accurate. Qui-Gon did NOT say his future was not cloudy. On the contrary, Qui-Gon said it WAS cloudy, as opposed to definitely dangerous. As GL says, Qui-Gon was ultimately right.
" Luke was sure in EP.V he could save Han and Lea despite Yoda and Obi-Wan comments(he was wrong)."
His going was not the 100% smart thing to do- but people often forget something VERY important. If Luke had not gone, R2 would not have gone, and without R2, no escape. So in fact, Luke did achieve- simply at personal cost.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
having no real enemy to fight against, they would get too sure of themselves. if you actually think about it, spending hundreds of years without battling it out, except in training, the Jedi never really had a proper enemy and thus it slackened their humble self and enforced their mentality into thinking that they were actually better.
but better than what ? what sort of peacekeeping did the Jedi do in those years they thought they had extnguished the sith ? Mind tricks on people not to sell death sticks or not to steal ?
in those years they had forgotten who their real enemy was by underestimating it , and they had forgotten what the force meant.
In the clone wars i would expect them to have brushed up their techniques.
i heard Mace gets a surprise in the office of sidious, and doesnt die cause of a weaker mind.
__________________
Deferrals get you nowhere - Just Do It.........Or Ineptitude will consume your life like a Cancer
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: The Unknown Regions
The Jedi didn't just fight against the Sith, they kept disputes and stuff from breaking out in the various star systems and acting as diplomats and ambassadors. Think about Episode 1 when Vallorum sent Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to negotiate with the Trade Federation, they were ambassadors. They weren't intending to fight the Sith.
But I get what you mean about the whole "having no one to fight" theory.
The bottom line is the Revenge of The Sith that has seen their downfall. Peace and Justice involves defence. They did not see to sharpen offensive manouvres (and maintain them) by assuming greater dangers for the galaxy.
__________________
Deferrals get you nowhere - Just Do It.........Or Ineptitude will consume your life like a Cancer
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Moderator
Your assumption there is that the Jedi fail purely because they are somehow incompetent. Whilst some failure is inevitable in the given scenario, the important bit is that the Sith really did their job right. But there can be no grounds for complaint, from what I see, of the Jedi's conduct in the intervening time.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Dec 7th, 2004 08:42 PM
