obviously Dooku goes to pieces early on if rumour is to be true in ep3 but it makes an interesing read in the behing the scenes side of things.
Count Dooku: Secret Agenda or Obedient Sith Apprentice?
cGt 2099
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that there is more than meets the eye to Count Dooku?
At a glance, it would seem that his actions are conducted to the wishes of Sidious, as a part of the bigger plan... deceiving different parties all the way.
But I honestly think there is more than meets the eye to this guy.
He speaks with reverence about Qui-Gon to Kenobi. He asks Kenobi to join him, in an almost sincere fashion. He mentions that he could use the assistance of his old padawan, long since passed, to help his cause.
He left the Jedi Order not long after Jinn's death. Why? It's never explained.
After his battle with Kenobi and Skywalker, even though he does some nasty sh!t to them both, he has this look of regret on his face.
Is it possible that Dooku's vision and Force ability was not clouded like the other Jedi around the time of Qui-Gon's fall? Perhaps he saw what the other Jedi did not: that the Dark Side was wrapping its tentacles around control of the galaxy.
It would certainly explain why he left the Order. If he could see something that the revered Jedi Council could not, then he would have come across some strong opposition to voicing his thoughts to what was happening.
Before their confrontation with Dooku, Mundi and Windu speak of the Lost Jedi Knight in a positive manner, and not a negative way. Instead, they call him a "political idealist". Interesting that Lucas chose to use the word IDEALIST to describe him... If Dooku voiced concerns about a possible Sith presence in the Senate, if he could see what the others couldn't, then it would be no surprise if the Jedi Council referred to him as an Idealist at an earlier time as well.
Now I could be wrong of course, but this what I believe. I believe that Dooku has his own agenda. He has decided to take matters into his own hands and destroy the threat that the Jedi are too blinded to see.
The best way to get close enough to stop a Sith Lord that is deceiving the galaxy? Deceive the Sith Lord himself, "befriend" him. Perhaps this is what Dooku has done, to get close enough to Sidious and to be prepared to take action at the right time.
Obviously, Sidious is extremely powerful. If he wasn't (and if this theory is anywhere near truth), Dooku would have had him stopped before the events of Episode II.
So he needs help and assistance. Why else would he ask Kenobi to join him? His request of Obi-Wan to join him is not the same as Vader's to Luke is ESB. Vader promised "RULING THE GALAXY" in that union... Dooku promised the destruction of the Sith. Vader's motivation was blantant greed for power. Dooku's motivation is mysterious... perhaps he was being sincere.
If there is any truth to this, then it will be very interesting to see how the character of Count Dooku is played out in Episode III.
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Yeah, it is a good theory. Maybe this talk between Anakin,Sidius and Dooku during the space battle/ sabre fight Dooku reveals who and what hes really doing and Sidius strapped to the prisoner chair manipulates the fight to make Anakin kill Dooku.
A VERY wild guess there. LOL
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A theory completely negated by GL's own comments about Dooku being an out and out bad guy. He was called an idealist because GL wanted a moral ambiguity about Dooku UNTIL the final scenes.
Sorry- just does not wash. Dooku switched sides and that is about it.
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Last edited by Ushgarak on Mar 30th, 2004 at 04:18 PM
Ush is right, the star wars movies have characters who are either good or bad. we might be wondering what side they will take, like Dooku or Calrissian, but by the end of the movies, their motives become clear. your conclusion is wrong, rustiswordz, but you the idea behind it is correct, and i've brought it up before....
what exactly ARE dooku's motives? there is absolutely nothing in it for him? Why would he "capture" Palpatine when OBVIOUSLY, the plan was for him to be rescued. The success of Palpatine's rescue pretty much REQUIRES Dooku's death, or at the very least, capture. As we know the plot now, there is nothing in it for Dooku. And as much as i hate to say it, I think this is something GL has overlooked, or doesnt think fans care about it enough to explain. Its bad writing, if what we know now holds true when we see EPIII.
actually no ... it's like in ESB, Vader and Palpa are talking about luring Luke, but they know that there can only be two
it's the same now, Palpa wants Anakin to finish his plans, dooku perhaps wants him to throw off palpa and rule the galaxy himself
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Well, I suspect like much of the Prequels, we are left to wonder what the original plan weas. In TPM, we have to come up with our own ideas of what Palpatine would have done if the Queen HAD succumbed- likely Palpatine himself would havw organised the rescue of his own homeworld and been the hero of the hour, but in the end he did fine by adapting to circumstance.
In AOTC, it seems unlikely Dooku's plan was to fight his way through three Jedi- including the top Jedi- in order to escape; I still think Obi-Wan- who they clearly tried to GENUINELY kill- made the Geonosis link too quickly and this time DOoku had to adapt on the spot, again successfully.
On the idea that after the capture of Palatine Dooku is now killed, when we see the film with any luck it will be explainable what the apparent plan was, as far as Dooku was concerned.
But yes- White Hats and Black Hats SW is, morality wise- like the Westerns GL based it on. Things are a bit more murky in the Prequels, but that basic rule still applies.
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I just think Dooku having his own agenda makes things way too murky. And regarding your point yers, it is a good one, but this is my reasoning....
it MUST be common knowledge amongst sith that there can only be two. Palpatine obviously has NOT revealed his plans for Anakin to Dooku, otherwise Dooku would be suicidal to go along with Palpatine. Yers mentioned that in ESB, Vader and Palpatine talk about luring luke.... Vader had (evidently) long since realized how palpatine had used him. He offers Luke the opportunity to rule the galaxy with HIM, as father and son. He knew there could only be two sith, and He knew Luke would destroy the Emperor. Palpatine, on the other hand, had different motivations. He knew vader was probalby growing "disgruntled" and wanted Luke to replace him.
In this sense, the Sidious/Dooku/Anakin situation is quite different from the Sidious/Anakin/Luke situation
not really. why else would vader offer luke to rule the galaxy with him? and he kept his motivations for searching for skywalker secret for some time, didnt he? and palpatine did want to turn luke to the dark side, didnt he? palpatine knew there could be only two, and he certainly planned on being one of them. with luke as the other, its obvious there was no room for vader in the picture.
he wanted to lure Luke to the darkside, hence the discusion with the emperor in the astroide field
"VADER: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.
EMPEROR: Yes. Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?
VADER: He will join us or die, my master."
That Vader had an agenda of his own, maybe but again that would be mere speculation.
I aint including the novel of ESB where it says that Vader do has his own agenda, I talk out of the perspective of the films and fims only.
I am of the belief that people shouldnt cling to novelisations of films cause the info provided in the film should be enough.
And from the films we actually dont know if Vader has his own agenda.
ohh and I guess GL hadnt thought of the Two Sith rule byt he time he made ESB so..............
I think whatever plan Dooku and Palpatine had will be if at all revealed in the duel in which Anakin faces Dooku and the rumor is that Palpatine wil be in a chair speaking like in ROTJ.
Palaptines plan is to rule the galaxy, simple as that. Dooku is just a tool in his plan to make that happen. That he will meet obsticles along the way is just something that happens and probably counted on by Palpatine as well
WE ALL KNOW PALPATINES PLAN. THAT HAS NEVER BEEN THE ISSUE. ITS DOOKU'S PLAN AND APPARENTLY, ALL OF US ARE AT A LOSS TO OFFER A REASONABLE EXPLAINAITION.
The theory of Dooku having his own agenda, or possibly working the inside to defeat Palpatine makes the story much more interesting at least IMHO. It fleshes out the character a bit more, rather than just having him be some domino waiting to be knocked over by Anakin, and another seemingly extraneous character in these movies with little to no motivation for doing anything other than its "good" or "evil."
It seems like it could add to the plot, and maybe move Dooku from a nobody that is just taking up space, to a larger figure in the overall tapestry.
Any idea how old Dooku is supposed to be anyway? I now the actor has been around for a long time and done many, many films, but is Dooku himself actually supposed to be as old as the actor portraying him?
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right on. of course dooku has his own agenda. lies and deception are the ways of the sith.
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Mar 29th, 2004 10:19 PM
