Would the Galactic Empire still have been formed and Anakin Skywalker still becoming Darth Vader? The question is not a "could", which expresses a possibility either way, its a "would", a definite yes or no question!
I say no!
If Padme was never pregnant, Anakin possibly never would have been driven to the darkside by desperation. He would have stayed on the lightside.
Yoda and Kenobi were Order 66 survivors, and both were exceptionally strong, which was what helped them survive Order 66. With being such a powerful Force User such as Anakin being on the Jedi's side, he most certainly could/would have survived Order 66 alongside his fellow Jedi compains yoda and kenobi.
And a young (without the suit) Anakin could have most certainly killed Sidious in a fight.
If Anakin in ROTJ, killed Sidious as a middle aged man stuck within a robot suit, with less than half of his potential force power, then a young and agile anakin without the suit could have done that. On Youtube, they show some ROTS video games where Anakin kills Sidious in the Chancellor's office, as early as ROTS, young, agile, and without the suit.
While I believe that without Anakin being found by Qui Gon, the Galactic Empire still would have been definitley formed anyways, in the other hypothethical situation, that Anakin still becomes a Jedi but doesn't meet Padme, it's quite possible that the Empire/him becoming Vader never would have happened.
Now, without Padme's pregnancy (sidious's plan never could have been dependent on something such as that), Sidious had some backup plans such as poisoning her with Sith alchemy or making Anakin think her political enemies would kill her, so Anakin would turn to the darkside to save her, (a millenia old plan obviously had some back ups, there were other ways to put Padme in danger!)
However, if Anakin never met Padme, Sidious would never use her life being in danger to lure Anakin towards the darkside, and thus Anakin stays light and kills Sidious in ROTS, after order 66 presumably, preventing the Empier and it's atrocities, such as the death star blowing up alderaan, from ever happening.
To quote Lucasboy himself!
"Their love is complicated - pure yet forbidden, personal but with profound ramifications for an entire galaxy. Somehow, John has managed to convey all of that complexity in a simple, hauntingly beautiful theme."
Their love has profound ramifications for the entire galaxy, which goes along with my theory.
its not just their marriage. from ep1 its been a love story....a very poor dry shallow blunt sham of a love story, but still the attachment was obvious (yet devoid). your hypothetical negates the whole PT. what if palpatine slipped in the shower and broke his hip in ep2, spent days alone screaming for help and died in a tub of his own filth?
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
What if the hyperdrive on the Naboo cruiser didn't spring a leak? What if Qui-Gon went to one of the other "smaller dealers"? What if Grievous rigged his ship to explode after he fled? What if Anakin had pulled out?
What ifs in a fictional universe are kinda boring and pointless. Let's talk about what ifs during World War II. That's a neat trick.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
hypthethicals do not negate the whole PT, ironically, and actually, they help me to understand it better. For example, a hypothethical is a what if scenario. What if scenariors help me to understand the actual storyline better.
What ifs may be boring to you, but even if we just agree to disagree on the interesting-ness of hypothethicals, I can tell you, as I wrote in a previous post, that hypothethicals help me to understand the actual story a lot better, ironically.
For example, if the hypothethical that what if anakin never met padme , then the empire and darth vader never would have happened is true (which is the question that i'm asking in this paticular thread), then, how does that help me to understand the actual storyline a lot better. Here's how?
If that hypothethical is true, then I can conclude that Anakin metting Padme caused him to become darth vader and it caused the galactic empire to formed, and that anakin probably shouldn't have done what he did.
And, now, for that reason and others, I'm interesting in debating this paticular hypothethical.
if anakin had never met padme he would likely have never met any jedi. its a tale of fate and you're trying to write that off by fallaciously assuming that anakin would have been just fine if he never met padme. when his mom was murdered he would have been like "oh i need to confront my grief in a nondestructive manner".
despite your contrary statements, it seems you have your mind made up about these characters and feel no need to understand them better.
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
Mods, please lock this thread, as, while this thread topic does have some potential for discussion, the way I worded the thread question as a what if thread and whatnot is making productive discussion not work, I'm just going to start over with a new thread, very similar to this one
no, this discussion (as well as the others) is not productive because you only seem to want to lead the conversation into your unique and often baseless proposals, while remaining solidly obstinate to even the most blatant lack of evidence to support your claims. its exhausting, the rate at which you do this.
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
Frankly, Anakin was on the Dark Side even before he started dreaming about Padme's death. He was already a violent, murderous, psychopath in Attack of the Clones; Palpatine just made the official declaration in Episode III.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
I'm not denying what you said, but here's some evidence to support my claim that Anakin may very well have NOT turned to the darkside without getting involved in a relationship with padme. Quoted straight from wookipedia and george lucas.
"Their love is complicated - pure yet forbidden, personal but with profound ramifications for an entire galaxy. Somehow, John has managed to convey all of that complexity in a simple, hauntingly beautiful theme."
A.) If you're not denying what I said, then how can you argue for the opposite of what I said?
B.) That quote you provided does not detail anything about the characters.
C.) You have a learning disability, don't you?
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
The quote stated that Anakin and padme's love had negative and exterme effects on the entire galaxy, and please read my original post that explains my theory
Your quote neither established Anakin's fall nor the reasons for it. Only that two people's relationship will have consequences. Honestly, learn to identify context.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Their relationship had negative consequences for the ENTIRE GALAXY, which goes along with how Anakin turns to the darkside and saved Palpatine from the Jedi (thereby being responsible for the galactic empire's creation), all just to save Padme, not to mention him becoming darth vader and doing the evil imperial atrocity stuff after turning to the DS
I genuinely can't follow the thread of your posts anymore, it's like you're reading different words than we're writing or responding to people who aren't there.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
__________________ "Your Lord knows very well what is in your heart. Your soul suffices this day as a reckoner against you. I need no witnesses. You do not listen to your soul, but listen instead to your anger and your rage."
Feb 28th, 2013 02:06 AM
