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The Oracle
Started by: JediHDM

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JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

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Location: United States

The Oracle

OKay, correct me if i'm wrong (as always), but i don't think the Oracle was the mother of the Matrix.

Okay, first of all, i have to make an assumption: The Oracle does care about what happens to the Humans and Neo, and will therefore try to help them in any way she can. Theoretically, this would mean that she tell Neo what she knows, including, we assume, that there were other anomalies. now, since she either didn't know, or knew and didn't tell Neo, i am going to assume she Doesn't know. This would mean that she didn't come into Existence until after Anomaly five had his code rewritten, aka gone to the source. Meaning that the Oracle is either killed or destroyed every reboot, and the Oracle could not be the mother, meaning it would have to be someone else entirely.

I know that i had to assume a bit, but it seems as if she truly wants to help Neo, doesn't it? Its a suggestion, reply so we can accept or reject this theory. Tell me if you think good idea or not.


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2003 03:54 PM
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theprophecy123
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im might not agree now
i forgot about at all that ! (tshirt)


i supose the most obvious question is how can i trust you
...bad news is you can never really know whether im here to help you or not...


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Last edited by theprophecy123 on Sep 4th, 2003 at 04:57 PM

Old Post Sep 4th, 2003 04:22 PM
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tshirt
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I disagree.

Clearly several programs survive the rebooting. The architect, Merogovian (sp?) and Smith all made references to previous "Ones". So they have survived and reloads, reboots or new versions.

The Oracle hasn't told us she knows about the previous Ones, but then again, she speaks cyptically and never tells us everything we want to know.

The Architect stated that the Oracle was the Mother of the Matrix. He had no reason to lie. Doing so doesn't help the movie or the plot. In fact, I don't think there has been any outright lies by any character. Some misinterpretations, someone may have been a little short on details, but no outright lies.

If the Architect wanted to lie about the Oracle, he would probably be better served to lie and say she is evil and is using Neo as a pawn to take over the Matrix and harm the humans. This may get Neo to try and attack the Oracle.


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2003 04:50 PM
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JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

Gender: Male
Location: United States

no actually, the exchange was:

Architect: "Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another. An intuitive program, Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human Psyche. If i am the father of the Matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother."
Neo: "The Oracle"
Architect: "Please. As i was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly ninety-nine percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconcious level."

If you watch this part again, you will see that the Architect grimaces when Neo says "the Oracle", meaning, to me at least, that it isn't the Oracle that was the mother, meaning she is not necessarily been around the entire time. If Neo had been correct in his assumption, then, if the Architect were telling the truth, the Architect would have continued, or acknowledged that he was right, not respond to make one think that he was hurt by the assumption. Also, when does Smith make references to previous ones? i don't remember that part, but i don't think Smith knows about the others.


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2003 05:16 PM
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Vim
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Smith says, "Its happening again."
Then copied smith says, "Yes, but not exactly." or something similar.
I think the Architect says please as in why call her the Oracle. Like I would say Neo is the Savior, well in a way he is, but someone would say please like that's a strong word to describe the person. The architect never says yes or no, he was in disgust of the way humans have made her out to be an Oracle.


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2003 05:28 PM
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JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

Gender: Male
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I disagree. She goes by nothing other than the Oracle, in fact the priestess calls her the Oracle in M1.

Also, i believe that Smith himself is the "cataclysmic system crash", which means that if Smith was the same agent, he would know what the other agent had become, and thereofre he wouldn't say not exactly to himself.


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2003 06:49 PM
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theprophecy123
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as the prophecy was just another form of control the architect wouldnt appreciate her being called an oracle. the architect of course knows all the truth, the priestess and rebels wouldnt.
merovingian taking the mick calls her their fortune teller


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Old Post Sep 4th, 2003 07:05 PM
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-=Urot=-
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quote:
This is what I wrote in the thread called "the Bodyguard" Its about Seraph protecting the Oracle.



Seraph is short for Seraphim The highest ranking angel in God's kingdom.

quote:
According to the dictionary an Angel is "a celestial attendant of God; one of a class of Spiritual Beings who, in Medieval Angelology, were the lowest of the nine celestial orders: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels and Angels." However for most people, an Angel is an Angel, regardless of their so called 'rank'.


Remember what Seraph said the Neo," I protect what matters most".

Seraph is protecting the Oracle, which is also GOD. Thats why he's Gold and not green.

quote:
In the bible the two most precious metals are gold and silver. These noble metals are very enduring, not liable to the rust which destroys baser metals. In many respects they are nearly alike, but gold is more rare and precious than silver.


So I guess this answers the question of who created the Matrix. It was the Oracle not Persephone.

If Persephone were the creator, Seraph would be guarding her because she would be what matters most.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 02:06 AM
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The Omega
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The Oracle doesn’t have to be the “Mother”. I’m referring to the theory, that one of the two programs that sold the terminations code to the Oracles old shell is the Architect, and the “important child” may be the Matrix. IF that is the case, then the Oracle cannot be the “Mother” of that “child”.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 02:13 AM
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-=Urot=-
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Ahh I see where you are coming from.


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"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 02:16 AM
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Korri
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Urot> like the signature

Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 04:04 PM
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JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

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Thats a very good argument, Omega, I hadn't thought of that. Well said.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 04:21 PM
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Sifer

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Well the mother would know the majority of things about their child right? As usual, the father would keep the closest eye on it, checking up on its every detail and making sure it's child is doing something it's not supposed to be. The mother would also be the one usually who guides her children on the path to becoming grown (I know this isn't true in all cases...it's just what people expect from a motherly character on screen....usually). Well the Oracle fits that role rather well as does the Architect for the father.

Then we have the Intuitive program, originally designed to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. Now correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Oracle do just that as well.

Then we have her name which could take a few different meanings:

A shrine consecrated to the worship and consultation of a prophetic deity, as that of Apollo at Delphi.

A person, such as a priestess, through whom a deity is held to respond when consulted.

The response given through such a medium, often in the form of an enigmatic statement or allegory.

A person considered to be a source of wise counsel or prophetic opinions.

An authoritative or wise statement or prediction.
(all above meanings taken from Dictionary.com)

But it can also mean Oracle database. I am sure some of you have heard of this. Oracle uses a computer language called SQL (Server Query Language) which communicates with the server and the database (Oracle being the database). Think about how thats relevant to the Oracle in the movies - very, if you ask me smile

But long story short, I do believe she is the mother.


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Sifer

Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 04:44 PM
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The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
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Sifer> I agree with you that “The Oracle” fits the description of “Mother of the Matrix” perfectly. I’ve also usually adhere to the belief that she is said “Mother.”

It’s the statement made BY the Oracle in EtM, that her termination code was sold, that made me wonder about “the child”. Since Revolutions is a conclusion, the W-brothers probably won’t introduce entirely new CONCEPTS in the third movie, since it should reveal all the answers. We should, in principle, be able to figure everything out which has been hinted at.
That means, that we have MET “the child” in question. We just don’t know that “it” is the child, whom the Oracle is talking about.

Oracle: ”The Merovingian warned me, that If I made a certain choice it would cost me. He is, among other things, a man of his word.”

This means, that the Mero has HAD the Oracles termination code for a long time. The two programs the Oracle once trusted, sold the code a long time ago then.
The only mothers and fathers we’ve met, are the mother and father of the Matrix. Now, it COULD be the creators of the first, perfect VR world, but it seems the Architect was the sole creator. There are hints, that perhaps Matrix 1.0 still exists somewhere. We have all this old programs, that “are doing what they’re not supposed to”.
Perhaps Persephone (who’s connected to LOVE), helped create the first Matrix. So we may essentially have two “mothers”.


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 05:14 PM
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JediHDM
Jedi of the Matrix

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Omega, you are a genius...
What if, and just ponder this for a few minutes before replying, but what if Zion HAD BEEN Matrix v1.0. The world was perfect, man created AI, but was against the belief that AI is human ("Bits and Pieces" by Larry Wachowski and somebosy else), and they poisoned the skiesto kill the machines. (This is just a brief synopsis of Second Revolution, so don't yell at me, cause i know i left stuff out.) Thus, the "Machines" in ZION Forced the humans into slavery, creating Matrix v2.0. People are still born into the real world, and the Machines, the real ones, still have control over the humans, but in a amazingly different way than before. The monumental failure was the fact that the humans could not get along with the machines, and the "near subconcious" level is actually a dream of a dream. This seems to fit with everything we know so far, please reply.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 07:39 PM
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-=Urot=-
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quote:
Originally posted by Korri
Urot> like the signature


Thx Korri. big grin


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"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2003 07:41 PM
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Sifer

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Matrix 2.0. Hrmmm!

The Architect says he created the perfect world. But he was frustrated by failure. He then says he redesigned it, based upon our grotesueries. But again, he was frustrated by failure. He then came to understand that the problem eluded him because it required a lesser mind.......

From that I would say we are in something closer to Matrix version 3.6 smile


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Sifer

Old Post Sep 6th, 2003 08:00 AM
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Korri
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quote:
Originally posted by -=Urot=-
Thx Korri. big grin



looks kewl smile

Old Post Sep 6th, 2003 02:52 PM
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The Omega
Z10N0101

Gender: Female
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JediHDM> So you mean to say, that the entire “real world” (the one we meet in Second Renaissance) was the 1st Matrix? Or rather, a machine attempt at getting the humans to try and accept the machines? Sort of like a real-world simulation? (Like the last Animatrix story reversed?)
The concept it good. I’ve always wondered how the Zion database has been able to survive 5 machine attacks, so that man could see the story of Second Renaissance.
However there are a few points that I don’t think work: If Second Renaissance portrays Matrix 1.0, the machines could’ve programmed it, so that man and machine world get along. In the first attempt there was NO choice by the pod-humans. It does not portray a world of perfection. At least not seen from a human perspective.
Your theory is, however, quite interesting. A theme of Reloaded is man and machines mutual dependencies. Another is CHOICE.

I think, that if Matrix 1.0 still exists, it exists somewhere else. As a “brain-child” of two programs, whom the Oracle once trusted, who then sold her code (they wrote the Oracle too), to the Mero, to protect their child. Maybe that is what makes the Mero so dangerous? He has access to two VR worlds, and that is how he can protect exiles? For some reason I just got to think of the biblical myth of the Tower of Babel, languages and the Mero. What that means still eludes me smile


__________________
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."


"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."

Old Post Sep 6th, 2003 04:25 PM
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icon
New meaning to Free Agent

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quote:
Originally posted by -=Urot=-
Seraph is short for Seraphim The highest ranking angel in God's kingdom.



Remember what Seraph said the Neo," I protect what matters most".

Seraph is protecting the Oracle, which is also GOD. Thats why he's Gold and not green.



So I guess this answers the question of who created the Matrix. It was the Oracle not Persephone.

If Persephone were the creator, Seraph would be guarding her because she would be what matters most.


Sorry My Friend, but Seraph protects that which matters most, and what the Oracle values most as well. The Future. In the game movie, the oracle says "Even I cannot see past the End."
Niobe "Are you saying the world is going to end?"
Oracle "Yes, if we cannot stop it."

Seraph is the Time Keeper, or something along that line. He is not protecting the oracle, or as you think "God"

But as for why he is Gold, I'm still working that out.

Old Post Sep 6th, 2003 04:55 PM
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