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religious ties
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HyperDream
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Question religious ties

lets see, looking at the matrix in whole, i think theres about 4 religious ties to the stroyline

first of all-christianity A BIG ONE, neo is the jesus christ character for saving the unbelievers of the matrix, morpheus is the john the baptist character because hes awaiting the second coming, trinity the god like character, ressurecting the jesus character, cypher is the judas iscariot character for betraying the chosen one.

then theres hinduism- the rebirth into another life.

i know some of these topics have been discussed before, but i think we can go a little bit further with

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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:04 PM
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forumcrew
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there are lots more specifics with referneces to parts of the bible


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:05 PM
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furryman
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what about judaism and gnosticism


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:06 PM
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HyperDream
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shoot! eek!


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:07 PM
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furryman
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well, i dont actually know, but i know there is some..

sifer, jedi, ush, omega ??


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:07 PM
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HyperDream
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gnosticism.... hmmm, iv never heard of that one before.


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:09 PM
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EyeMakeMovies
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i forget exactly where it is in reloaded, but neo is wlking through a marketplace... the camera pans over several items, a picture of jesus being one of them


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:13 PM
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furryman
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yeh on his way to seraph


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 09:14 PM
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JediHDM
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I really can't think of any for Judaism, except for the obvious Zion and "Look for the savior; he's coming soon" ideas...And i haven't studied Gnosticism hardly at all, so i'm gonna have to leave that to Sifer or someone else...


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 11:23 PM
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audioheem
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There's a ship called the Gnosis stick out tongue


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2003 11:25 PM
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sum1butno1
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Is that ship in one of the movies? If so, which one?

Old Post Nov 13th, 2003 04:55 AM
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JediHDM
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no, its not, but it is mentioned in Reloaded. "i have a son, Jacob, on the Gnosis..."


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Old Post Nov 13th, 2003 01:21 PM
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Ímmes
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Well Judaism seems to me to have the biggest influence on the script. Apart from the Zion - Sion similarity, Neo doesn't look like Jesus, he is rather the expected messiah. People believe in him, in his rebirth, and treat him just as the Jews would likely treat the messiah.

There are two other things though, even though I am no expert on this film, and this might be quite obvious; the first is the location where Zero-One is founded, the middle east, where probably Zion dwells underground. One can say that all three celestial religions are founded there, but it seems to me more to be connected with Judaism, rather than Christianity or Muslim. I can't explain why.

The second is the reference given by the name of the Nebuchadnezzar hoovercraft, which is, to my understanding, the most powerful reference to Judaism. As you might already know, Nebuchadnezzar used to be a king in the ancient Sumer, who conquered Judea and brought them in masses to Babylon, his Capital. Now, the ship with the same name, takes the people from their oppressors and brings them back to Zion (Sion). Quite a powerful reference I think.

Old Post Nov 13th, 2003 04:07 PM
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HyperDream
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you set a good point, although....... i really don tthink that neo LOOKING like jesus has to do anything with it, but its a thought.


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Old Post Nov 14th, 2003 12:28 AM
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neo_dragon
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how can anyone say what christ looked like? all the portraits of him look like he is of the same ethnic group as the artist, if he were painted by an italian artist, he looks italian, and so on. the truth is we don't know. so why even bring up the statement that neo doesn't look like christ? think people, the resemblances to christ were personality attributes and abilities, not physical features.

Old Post Nov 14th, 2003 12:38 AM
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HyperDream
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exactly.


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Old Post Nov 14th, 2003 12:43 AM
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Ímmes
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I'm sorry, that was a misexpression because of my poor English I suppose. By the statement of "looking like Christ" I obviously didn't refer to his physical appearance. I refered to his social role.

Christians are in no expectation of a messiah, but Judeans are. They expect his return, just as Zioners expect the return of the one, that's what I meant.

Old Post Nov 14th, 2003 02:30 AM
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TOH
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When Jesus Christ was crucified he said "It's finished"
At the end of the SuperBrawl Deus Ex Machina says: "It's Done".


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Old Post Nov 14th, 2003 02:49 AM
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Ímmes
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I had to post another message, sorry for this, but I don't think the religious message in this film is as strong as in Star Wars and the Lord of the Rings.

In Star Wars, the "The Force" is a definitive celestial religious target, there's no wonder some Australians choose to baptize their children as Jedi Knights. And in Lord of the Rings, Gandalf is a druidic / shamanic figure. This is a broad category of similar religions, at pre-celestial ages, that worship natural powers. I don't mean to offend, on the contrary, if I find a Gandalf religion I might join it myself.

There's no religion in the Matrix, it isn't even interested in a religious message, its purpose is beyond that. There's a very ... very strong argument, and it calls to all people, without splitting them into good ones and bad ones. Many people think that they may actually be the prisoners of a Matrix, and in fact we are. Not as in the same analogy in the film of course. But all civilized men are slaves of causality. We are given a purpose, we are shown a path which leads there. We learn not to depart from the path at unwanted crossroads, if we do, we are punished by uncertainty and mostly failure. If we obey we are rewarded with satisfaction. And in time we become defenders of a system, of which true nature and purpose we are ignorant.

This is one piece of damn courageous message. I'm telling you, in more than 99% of the states that exist and have existed throughout history, the delivery of such a message would require a death penalty.

Old Post Nov 14th, 2003 03:15 AM
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JediHDM
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Ommes> yes, the purpose was not to show that one religion is more correct than another, but that Religion, Philosophy, etc are integral parts of humanity, and perhaps your beliefs will come to fruition, perhaps not, but if you work to achieve your beliefs, then good things can happen...


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Old Post Nov 14th, 2003 04:51 AM
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