__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
Think about this. What if switch, Apoc and the others are not dead.
Now we know that there is a hierarchy in the Matrix.
1. Programs
2. Humans.
Now ask yourself this, are the humans in the Matrix really human? Or are they lower level Programs?
In the real world the hierarchy would be.
1. Machines.
2.Humans.
As burlyman has stated that the Humans need hardlines to get in and out of the Matrix. The lines are used to separate the body from the mind.
While they are separated the Human mind becomes a digital repersentation of the physical self.
That digital representaion is PROGRAM. It may be a low lever one, but a program none the less.
Now Morpheus told Neo that the body can't live with out the mind. Was that the truth?
The better question would be can the mind live without the body?
True self-knowlege is the key.
A good example of this would be Agent Smith/Bane.
Agent smith was a program that had full knowlege of self. He didn't need a body inorder to survive, but he needed a body to crossover into the real world.
So as we all know Smith used the hardlines inorder to pour his digital image into a physical body.
Now that Smith is in the real world he is subject to our weaknesses. If his body is killed he will die because his digital self has nowhere to go, unless he reloaded himself back into the Matrix before his last breath.
Remember he has self knowlege, so he would live on (in the Matrix) with out Bane's body.
The samething would also apply to Neo.
At the end of Reloaded Neo noticed something different. He knew he was still connected to the Matrix.
In M3 we find out that Neo is still connected to the Matrix because his life signs still show him to be jacked in, even though he was still in the real world.
Before Neo passed out at the end of Reloaded He knew he was still jacked in.
True self-knowlege is the difference.
I guess that's why on the ship Trinity's light is Blue while Neo's is red?
Anyway getting back on point.
If Switch, Apoc and the others had true self-knowlege they may not have died when they were unplugged.
The Orcale stated that when programs are done their jobs they are to be deleted. Now keeping this in mind. The body can't live without the mind, but the mind can live without the body. The digital representaions of Switch and Apoc were deleted, because their digital images were in a way a lower level programs. Had they known, they could have resisted they might have lived. Who knows they might be saved on a huge digital database somewhere in the martix (That was speculation... Well all of it is Speculation ).
Remember what Neo said at the end of M1.
They all can't be the One so IMO self-knowlege is the key to this puzzle.
Even the main Cast is still oblivious to the truth. Neo will learn the full truth. Even now his knowlege of self has surpassed even Trinity or Morpheus's Self-knowlege.
Neo will teach the world the truth through his last actions.
Who knows he may disperse his code through out the whole of the Matrix. In essence making everyone the one. They would have his knowlege and abilities.
Its not impossible because everyone who is still jacked in, is stll a program as stated before. So speading his code is not so far feched.
__________________
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Last edited by -=Urot=- on Oct 28th, 2003 at 01:47 AM
Yeah I know its long. I've kinda stopped talking about the Matrix until the new movie comes out.
I was just sitting here thinking about the first movie so I had to post my thoughts.
__________________
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
If Neo spread his code Through out the Matrix then everyone would be like him. Its kinda a reverse Smith Virus. They would have Neo's knowlege and skill, but they kept their own self-image. His code would become one with the Matrix, so even if someone was in the real world and jacked in. They would get an instant upgrade to the new version of the Matrix. Or Should I say Neo version .01.
__________________
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Rather overcomplex. And no, as a default, the mind cannot live without the body. Apoc and Switch are VERY dead. Complications caused by Smith and Neo are irrelevant.
As soon as the connection is cut your existence is terminated. Remember that the bodies are not empty shells during your time in the Matrix. A connection is still there- you can have things downloaded into you and so on. Just you cannot seem to perform the full consciousness transfer without a hardline- and it is not safe, in fact instantly fatal, to disconnect whilst your consciousness and senses are so transferred. To put it another way, to disconnect whilst dreaming is fatal. Only at a hardline can the process be initiated that makes you wake up.
So effectively your mind is still broadcasting into the Matrix FROM your body. You cannot exist in the Matrix without your body hooked up and that signal being given. Your mind is not floating solo, in that sense. In fact, it is technically as much in your body as it ever was, just your senses are altered and mixing with a sub-world of billions of other such minds, subject to alteration as much there as in the real world. Neo's mind might be more flexible, but that is different.
So you haven't left, there are not two 'yous'. So when the connection is cut, the very FIRST thing that happens is that you cease to exist in the Matrix because the channel your mind uses to access it has gone. THEN, presumably due to shock, you die in the physical world. Yes, a programmed representation of you remains in the Matrix. But it is just so much dead code- with no mind. Hence the dead body in the Matrix, no more sentient than a table. Without that connection there can be no question of that representation doing anything at all. All it was was a vessel for your transmitted mind, and the transmission is gone.
So the idea that you could still be in the Matrix is very void. Even if you did not die when disconnected your mind just wouldn't be there any more. No matter how 'self aware' you were, that would be so.
This talk about 'Smith's digital self having nowhere to go' if Bane is killed strikes me as fuzzy as well. Bane (en-Smithed or otherwise), whilst not connected, has no digital self to go anywhere any more than anyone else does. What Bane is is a human with an overwritten mind, that is all. His mind was irrevocably altered whilst connected to the Matrix. All there is to it.
So I am sorry, but I reject most of the foundation of this idea.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Oct 28th, 2003 at 01:40 PM
That ok Ushgarak. That why I stated that it was all speculation. The idea ran into my mind, so I posted what I was thinking about, inorder to get some feedback.
I was talking to one of my friends today and he brought up the same points you did.
__________________
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Imagination is more important than knowledge.
Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
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Oct 27th, 2003 08:18 PM
