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for those who have seen matrix 2
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turin
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for those who have seen matrix 2

i thought it would be cool to discuss the issues in matrix 2 as well as what people think will happen in the 3rd film. warning!!! there will probably be a lot of spoilers in this thread so reader be ware!


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and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.

Old Post May 15th, 2003 10:21 PM
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turin
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k to start it off, i loved this film and as may day to day has progressed i have been thinking a lot about the film. first off i love the issue of the right to choose that ran throughout the film. through the film Neo kept getting told that the disicions he was about to be make were already made (particularly by the oricale). originally when i saw the film i thought she meant that Neos individual choices have already been made, but then when he ran into the dude that made the matrix and he told Neo about all the Zions before it dawned on me that perhaps the oricale meant that all the other "the one"s had to make the same decision, so that decission had already been made by others and now it was his turn to make that decision.
also just a hunch i have for the third film is that the dude that made the matrix just told Neo that to deter him. also at the end of the film when the are attacked by the sentinals, and Neo says that he could feel the sentinals, perhaps he now has some kind of connection to the machines that goes beyond the matrix. just a thought.


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and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.

Old Post May 15th, 2003 10:29 PM
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Tevesh
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good ideas. the bit with choice is straight up David Hume, if anyone gets a chance to read him, do it. Everything has been pre-determined, so the main thing about this movie is, why is he making the choices he makes. and techincally, they aren't choices if they have been pre-determined, but he had the opportunity to not choose B, but chose A anyway. This movie is trying to understand why you would choose A over B

The way i though of it, since there have been 6 matrix constructs, and in each one there has been an Anomaly, and in each one, the Anomaly has chosen to save the human species, and have a new matrix constructed. This time, however, Neo chose to save Trinity.

I think the whole bit of programs hacking programs and programs creating new programs is foreshadowing my thoughts. I believe that each of the Matrix constructs is built within one another. In otherwords, there are six "shells" of programming. So even Zion and what they believe is the "real world" is a previous construct of the matrix. the outermost, 7th "shell" is what i belive is the actual real world.

Anyone who's read Magic: The Gathering series knows that this resembles Phyrexia a whole lot.


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Old Post May 16th, 2003 12:32 AM
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DVs_suit
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I think the fact that he had some control over the machines in the 'real' world makes it seem that that is just a second matrix, but I somehow doubt it. If Reloaded and revolutions are but one movie devided in two, taking place over 24 hours, I doubt they could complete the entire story in only one more movie. (Based on the assumption that the wichowski brothers arent (didnt) do a cheap ending where like they find out the real world is a matrix, everythings fake, and there is no hope, and die, or something)


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Last edited by DVs_suit on May 16th, 2003 at 01:45 AM

Old Post May 16th, 2003 01:19 AM
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Jimmy2Fingers
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I saw it, but isn't revolutions the prequel? also is there a preview for it after the credits? I also think that Neo isnt human. He has to be a program, and that program was programed to be human

Old Post May 16th, 2003 02:07 AM
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Thomas H
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just a couple off days for me to wait!!


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Old Post May 16th, 2003 03:23 PM
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turin
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wow, i never thought of it as 6 shells and zion is just part of the outermost matrix. i did think that perhaps Neo was still part of the Matrix when he destroyed the sentinals but considering that when he is in the matrix he sees program script as aposed to what everyone else sees, i would have thought Neo would have quickly determined that he was still in the matrix. i do bet there will somekind of a twist like that though for the final film. thanks a lot tevesh now i am going to be sitting here thinking about that one for awhile, lol.


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and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar.

Old Post May 16th, 2003 04:01 PM
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razorrex10
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ya there is a preview of the matrix revolutions after the matric reloaded just saw it it looked awesome and looks like going to be a good fight between neo and smith but no matrix revolutions is not a prequel i thought u said u saw matrix reloaded jimmy?

Old Post May 16th, 2003 11:35 PM
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Darth Vicious
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well i really loved it and some of the technicalities were cool like when they went to the backdoor, as a computer tech myself i know what a computer backdoor is and seeing how they used it in the matrix it was cool also i did got the feeling that [SPOILER - highlight to read]: the 'real' world was/is another matrix, if not how was Neo able to stop the sentinels and that would explain how agent smith got out to the 'real' world, in Revolutions i wanna see more fights but not only with Neo like Morpheous -vs- The Twins and Trinity -vs- Monica Bellucci(the girl that kissed Neo) and i would like to see more of her because damn she is hot and also i found it kinda weird that as soon as neo finished talking to the Oracle agent smith appear, did she set him up?


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Last edited by Ushgarak on May 19th, 2003 at 03:08 PM

Old Post May 17th, 2003 04:16 PM
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REXXXX
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No, Smith just has a habit of hunting down Neo methinks.

That French guy is a perv. The cake gave that girl a...

*whistles*


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Old Post May 18th, 2003 05:21 AM
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REXXXX
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[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Damn Smiths, they killed the Keymaker! He was awesome! Little old Chinese man that makes keys, he was tight!

Also, it's funny how the room with the creator of the Matrix the TVs relay Neo's emotions. Though Neo says nothing, the TVs started screaming...

"F*** you!"

"Bulls***!"

"You mother****!"

*middle finger*


That was hilarious.


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Last edited by finti on May 18th, 2003 at 07:58 PM

Old Post May 18th, 2003 05:28 AM
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thelotrlovr15
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how does the reloaded end again
tell me the last five minutes


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"I know half of you half as well as I should like... And I like less than half of you half as well as you diserve..."--Bilbo

" That'll be them, will it, Potter?"
He pointed with his thumb over his shoulder; his magical eye was evidently peering through the back of his hand and his bowler hat. Harry leanded and inch or so to the left to see where Mad-Eye was pointing and there, sure enough, were the three Dursleys, who looked positively appallled to see Harry's reception committee.
"Ah, Harry!" said Mr. Weasley, turning from Hermione's parents, whom he had been greeting enthusiastically, and who were taking it in turns to hug Hermione." Well-- shall we do it then?"
" Yeah, I reckon so, Arthur," said Moody.
He and Mr. Weasley took the lead across the station toward the place where the Dursleys stood, apparently rooted to the floor. Hermione disengaged herself gently from her mother to join the group.
" Good afternoon," said Mr. Weasley pleasantly to Uncle Vernon coming to a halt right in front of him. " You might remember me, my name's Arthur Wealey."
As Mr. Weasley had singlehandedly demolished most of the Dursley's living room two years previously, Harry would have been very surprised if Uncle Vernon had forgotten him. Sure enough, Uncle Vernon turned a deeper shade of puce and glared at Mr. Weasley, but chose not to say anything, partly, perhaps, because the Dursley's were outnumbered two to one. Aunt Petunia looked both frightened and embarassed. She kept glancing around, as though terrified somebody she knew would see her in such company. Dudley, meanwhile, seemed to be trying to look small and insignificant, a feat at which he was failing extravagantly.
" We thought we'd just have a few words with you about Harry." said Mr. Weasley, still smiling.
" Yeah," growled Moody." About how he's treated when he's at your place."
Uncle Vernon's mustache seemed to bristle with indignation. Possibly because the bowler hat gave him the entirely mistaken impression that he was dealing with a kindred spirit, he addressed himself to Moody.
" I am not aware that it is any of your business what goes on in my house-"
" I expect what you're not aware of would fill several books, Dursley," growled Moody.
" Anyway, that's not the point," interjected Tonks, whose pink hair seemed to offend Aunt Petunia more than all the rest put together, for she closed her eyes rather than look at her." The point is, if we find out you've been horrible to Harry--"
"-- and make no mistake, we'll hear about it," added Lupiin pleasantly.
" Yes," said Mr. Weasley, " even if you won't let Harry use the felly tone--"
" TELEPHONE," whispered Hermoine.
" Yeah, if we get any hint that Potter's been mistreated in any way, you'll have us to answer to," said Moody.
Uncle Vernon swelled ominously. His sensed of outrage seemed to outweigh even his fear of this bunch of oddballs.
" Are you threatening me ,sir" he said, so loudly that passersby actually turned to stare.
" Yes, I am," said Mad- Eye, who seemed rather pleased that Uncle Vernon had grasped this fact so quickly.
" And do I look like the kind of man who can be intimidated?" barked Uncle Vernon.
" Well..." said Moody, pushing back his bowler hat to reveal his sinisterly revovling magical eye. Uncle Vernon leapt backward in horror and collided painfully with a luggage trolley. " Yes, I'd have to say you do, Dursley."
He turned away from Uncle Vernon to surey Harry. " So, Potter... give us a shout if you need us. If we don't hear from you for three days in a row, we'll send someone along...."
Aunt Petunia whimpered piteously. It could not have been plainer tht she was thinking of what neighbors would say if they caught sight of these people marching up the garden path.
" ' Bye, then, Potter," said Moody, grasping Harry's shoulder for a moent with a gnarled hand.
" Take care, Harry," said Lupin quietly. " Keep in touch."
" Harry, we'll have you away from there as soom as we can," Mrs. Weasley whispered, hugging him again.
" We'll see you soon ,mate," said Ron anxiously, shaking Harry's hand.
" Really soon, Harry," said Hermione earnestly." We promise."
Harry nodded. He somehow could not find words to tell them what it meant to him, to see them all ranged there, on his side. Instead he smiled, raised a hand in farewell, turned around, and led the way out of he station toward the sunlit strret, with Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia, and Dudley hurrying along in his wake.

Old Post May 18th, 2003 05:49 AM
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thelotrlovr15
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can any of you tell me how reloaded ends?
please
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


__________________
Everyone has the previlage of being stupid... but you overdo it...


"I know half of you half as well as I should like... And I like less than half of you half as well as you diserve..."--Bilbo

" That'll be them, will it, Potter?"
He pointed with his thumb over his shoulder; his magical eye was evidently peering through the back of his hand and his bowler hat. Harry leanded and inch or so to the left to see where Mad-Eye was pointing and there, sure enough, were the three Dursleys, who looked positively appallled to see Harry's reception committee.
"Ah, Harry!" said Mr. Weasley, turning from Hermione's parents, whom he had been greeting enthusiastically, and who were taking it in turns to hug Hermione." Well-- shall we do it then?"
" Yeah, I reckon so, Arthur," said Moody.
He and Mr. Weasley took the lead across the station toward the place where the Dursleys stood, apparently rooted to the floor. Hermione disengaged herself gently from her mother to join the group.
" Good afternoon," said Mr. Weasley pleasantly to Uncle Vernon coming to a halt right in front of him. " You might remember me, my name's Arthur Wealey."
As Mr. Weasley had singlehandedly demolished most of the Dursley's living room two years previously, Harry would have been very surprised if Uncle Vernon had forgotten him. Sure enough, Uncle Vernon turned a deeper shade of puce and glared at Mr. Weasley, but chose not to say anything, partly, perhaps, because the Dursley's were outnumbered two to one. Aunt Petunia looked both frightened and embarassed. She kept glancing around, as though terrified somebody she knew would see her in such company. Dudley, meanwhile, seemed to be trying to look small and insignificant, a feat at which he was failing extravagantly.
" We thought we'd just have a few words with you about Harry." said Mr. Weasley, still smiling.
" Yeah," growled Moody." About how he's treated when he's at your place."
Uncle Vernon's mustache seemed to bristle with indignation. Possibly because the bowler hat gave him the entirely mistaken impression that he was dealing with a kindred spirit, he addressed himself to Moody.
" I am not aware that it is any of your business what goes on in my house-"
" I expect what you're not aware of would fill several books, Dursley," growled Moody.
" Anyway, that's not the point," interjected Tonks, whose pink hair seemed to offend Aunt Petunia more than all the rest put together, for she closed her eyes rather than look at her." The point is, if we find out you've been horrible to Harry--"
"-- and make no mistake, we'll hear about it," added Lupiin pleasantly.
" Yes," said Mr. Weasley, " even if you won't let Harry use the felly tone--"
" TELEPHONE," whispered Hermoine.
" Yeah, if we get any hint that Potter's been mistreated in any way, you'll have us to answer to," said Moody.
Uncle Vernon swelled ominously. His sensed of outrage seemed to outweigh even his fear of this bunch of oddballs.
" Are you threatening me ,sir" he said, so loudly that passersby actually turned to stare.
" Yes, I am," said Mad- Eye, who seemed rather pleased that Uncle Vernon had grasped this fact so quickly.
" And do I look like the kind of man who can be intimidated?" barked Uncle Vernon.
" Well..." said Moody, pushing back his bowler hat to reveal his sinisterly revovling magical eye. Uncle Vernon leapt backward in horror and collided painfully with a luggage trolley. " Yes, I'd have to say you do, Dursley."
He turned away from Uncle Vernon to surey Harry. " So, Potter... give us a shout if you need us. If we don't hear from you for three days in a row, we'll send someone along...."
Aunt Petunia whimpered piteously. It could not have been plainer tht she was thinking of what neighbors would say if they caught sight of these people marching up the garden path.
" ' Bye, then, Potter," said Moody, grasping Harry's shoulder for a moent with a gnarled hand.
" Take care, Harry," said Lupin quietly. " Keep in touch."
" Harry, we'll have you away from there as soom as we can," Mrs. Weasley whispered, hugging him again.
" We'll see you soon ,mate," said Ron anxiously, shaking Harry's hand.
" Really soon, Harry," said Hermione earnestly." We promise."
Harry nodded. He somehow could not find words to tell them what it meant to him, to see them all ranged there, on his side. Instead he smiled, raised a hand in farewell, turned around, and led the way out of he station toward the sunlit strret, with Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia, and Dudley hurrying along in his wake.

Old Post May 18th, 2003 05:59 AM
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razorrex10
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[SPOILER - highlight to read]: ok well they are all in morpheus ship then the siren goes off telling there is a sentinel or sentinels in this case are nere by and neo tells they everybody they just threw a bomb so there running off the ship and it explodes and then the machines were coming after them and neo turns around and stops and he says somethings different i can feel them so he puts out his arm and tells the machines to shut down and he goes into a coma and there was a survivor in this big wreck and it's a guy that agent smith infected him

Last edited by finti on May 18th, 2003 at 07:59 PM

Old Post May 18th, 2003 12:36 PM
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finti
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well I dont care what goes on in this movie but for those who havent seen it USE SPOILER TAGS OR THIS ONE WILL GET CLOSED PRETTY QUICKLY

Old Post May 18th, 2003 02:43 PM
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Fire
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hehe nice one finti
well that idea o the real world just being another matrix is a nice concept
but I dont believe neo to be a program, seems a bit far fetched imo,
but I do think that revolutions will hold an amazing ending


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Old Post May 18th, 2003 02:56 PM
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FLIPMODE
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****SPOILER ALERT**** [SPOILER - highlight to read]:
I liked this movie alot. And it gives me more questions this time around.

Ok one thing that comes to mind is, that French dude.
Before they met with him, the oracle, said, that he is a program. She explained
him in accordance to those phenomena that happens like UFO's and such,
as being a result of disgruntal programs, who rebel aginst being Replaced, by other
Programs.

Now from what I gathered, during the fight scene with Neo at the Staircase
in the french dudes house. Earlier the French Dudes girlfriend siad that
Neo reminded her of what her Boyfriend USED to be like. Not only that during the fight scene
on the staircase, I think there were a total of 4 guys fighting Neo at once. I remember the french guy saying, They are your predecessors.
Is he saying they were all Neo's at one point in time?

Well There were about 4 guys, plus the French dude, plus Neo, then that makes,
6 of them. And the Architect said they've done this 5 times before. And being that
the French guy was very synacle, if he was a former Neo, that would explain his attitude.
And it would fit perfectly into what Oracle said about Programs that get replaced.
She allready said he was Replaced, and Im beggining to think, Neo Replaced him.
So if Neo replaced a Program...What does that make Neo?

It could be that the French dude, infact was "the one" at some point.
He thought he was a real person at once, and chose the other door to Save the world.
Once the cycle starts over again, he got replaced by Neo. But still he only exists in the Matrix.


But Im probably wrong, it still interests me.


Other things that seemed important to me, was
the fact that smith, inhabited a Real mans body, and crossing over to the
real world. Also Neo Using his powers outside the Matrix. That to me was the
Most surprising scene of the movie. I mean it comes right off the heels of neo telling
Morpheus there is no Prophecy, it was false..and then Bam that happens.
I think they actually missed the opportunity to show a reaction from Morpheus about that.

And something is telling me that this is not part of the program of the machines. Why would they want
Neo to function outside of their control? This is why I still believe in the prophecy. Things are
happening regardless of the Matrix's influence. Neo did something out of the ordinary, that even changed
Smith. And somehow through all of this I can see smith becoming a good guy, or
somehow part of the solution. Hell HE may save the people of Zion and
the rest of the world.

I also think this movie probably could have done at least one reference showing the Biliions of
people that are enslaved. In the grand scheme of things Zion is so small,
the actual slaves of the matrix are many. To me that's the key, that's the main goal.

There are a couple of things that I was unsure of though. Was the french Dudes girlfriend a Program?
Or is she actually a human enslaved in the Matrix. And the same question for the key maker.
That to me is unclear and can go either way.


****SPOILER END****

I really liked this film though, and will see it again when it comes to Imax.

Last edited by finti on May 18th, 2003 at 07:49 PM

Old Post May 18th, 2003 07:01 PM
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finti
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If you HAVE to use spoilers then please use the [spoiler] tag. i.e. [spoiler]Darth Vader is Lukes father![/spoiler]

This will look like [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Darth Vader is Lukes father



NO MORE OF THIS *** SPOILER ALERT**** WRITINGS, THE EXAMPLE ABOVE IS HOW IT IS DONE MAKE USE OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old Post May 18th, 2003 07:56 PM
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odin
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Cool

Overall i think it was an excelent movie.....cool
Interesting how Morpheus took on even more of a preacher role reguarding the prophecy and "the one"

I think they over did (a bit) the effect used in the previous movie....where they had a dramatic slow motion moment in the middle of fight scenes...

fight fight fight fight fight fight (5 second slo-mo)
fight fight fight fight fight fight (10 second slo-mo)
fight fight fight fight fight fight (5 second slo-mo)
etc...



[SPOILER - highlight to read]: as far as the dude at the end... the survivor... I believe he was basicly one of the agent smith's that(like in Neo's dream) was created... by one of them grabing cloned into a person that had been hacked into the matrix... and transfered into his biological body(the sabature)

One thing i thought interesting.. at the end... was when he stopped the sentinels using the same powers he had in the matrix, indicating that the whole world?? that they live in?? with zion...... is still just another level of the matrix??


oh yeah.... What exactly were the choices did the Architect provide to Neo? And why is there even a choice when one door leads to the destruction of every man AND machine? Why would the Architect even provide that when designing the Matrix?

Mabe everyone has been in The Matrix from the beginning. The repetitive scenario of The One reaching the Architect and making the choice could just be one big program after program, so that the Machines can perfect their strategy of getting to the real Zion (because all of their real attempts to do so have failed).




don't know... thoughts???

ODIN WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE POST PRIOR TO YOURS YOU DIDNT UNDERSTAND????????????


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.... sounds like a rave ;o)

Last edited by finti on May 19th, 2003 at 06:45 AM

Old Post May 18th, 2003 10:05 PM
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FLIPMODE
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Hey sorry Finti I have'nt posted in a while.

Old Post May 18th, 2003 10:17 PM
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