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I was disappointed with Mandarin in IM3 *spoilers*
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steverules_2
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I was disappointed with Mandarin in IM3 *spoilers*

Really?!? An [SPOILER - highlight to read]: actor...was the Mandarin, and don't give me that crap that Killian is Mandarin because he wasn't. I honestly liked Kingsley being the guy to play Mandarin although the idea of him NOT using magic was disappointing I still didn't think they'd just make Mandarin as an idea or decoy for Killian and Extremis. I dunno if other people thought this was a genius idea but it in my opinion it was an awful and idea. The movie itself was good, but that left a bad taste in my mouth.

I coulda posted this in the Iron Man 3 thread sure but I thought I'd make a seperate thread for it because...well because


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Old Post May 1st, 2013 09:22 PM
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Darth Thor
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Re: I was disappointed with Mandarin in IM3 *spoilers*

quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: The movie itself was good, but that left a bad taste in my mouth.



Same.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: There's really no issue in having magic when you have people breathing fire. Even still I always imagined movie Mandarin's rings being technologically powered.

Old Post May 1st, 2013 10:43 PM
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steverules_2
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They coulda easily done that in the movie, something to do with some test weapons that Stark Industries tried but never got fully under way...see...right there, I just came up with a storyline


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Old Post May 2nd, 2013 12:03 AM
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Kazenji
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*Shrugs*

i liked the twist personally.


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Old Post May 2nd, 2013 03:18 AM
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steverules_2
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Like I said, some people will like it but it didn't showcase what the Mandarin can do really...people who don't read the comics don't realise what he's truly capable of


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Old Post May 2nd, 2013 12:15 PM
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Sixth_Winged
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There's just no way you can have both Ironman 3 satisfying both Extremis and Mandarin stories for fans IMO. Focusing on one would certainly decrease the attention given to the other. In this case, [SPOILER - highlight to read]: if they went with the techno/magical sorcerer/scientist mandarin, the threat from extremis and AIM would have drastically decreased. The extremis would have probably ended up being some sort of technology Mandarin wants to covet or unleash but ends up being rather redundant cause that would either make him a)not a threat enough to stark by himself b) stupid for relying on that while he has rings that could easily put it to shame. They would've really pulled the extremis storyline to the side in that case.

While I really would've preferred the big bad villain Mandarin wielding powers to pose a severe threat to Tony cause my familiarity with the IM lore, the angle they took ain't that bad. At least the stories focus didn't drift and the reveal on Mandarin was entertaining.


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Old Post May 2nd, 2013 01:24 PM
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juggerman
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Re: Re: I was disappointed with Mandarin in IM3 *spoilers*

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Same.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: There's really no issue in having magic when you have people breathing fire. Even still I always imagined movie Mandarin's rings being technologically powered.


[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Idk. "Magic" was already introduced with Thor and since this is the same universe having magic could easily work. Maybe he pulled a Red Skull and discovered some ancient Asgardian crap and harnessed it's power ala Red Skull.


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Old Post May 2nd, 2013 03:27 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
There's just no way you can have both Ironman 3 satisfying both Extremis and Mandarin stories for fans IMO.


In that case would have definitely preferred Mandarin. Seen as [SPOILER - highlight to read]: IM's control over the Mark 42 and other armours had nothing to do with Extremis anyway.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by juggerman
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Idk. "Magic" was already introduced with Thor and since this is the same universe having magic could easily work. Maybe he pulled a Red Skull and discovered some ancient Asgardian crap and harnessed it's power ala Red Skull.


Could have done it that way as well. Remember Movie Thor says Technology and Magic are related anyway.

Old Post May 2nd, 2013 04:29 PM
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juggerman
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Could have done it that way as well. Remember Movie Thor says Technology and Magic are related anyway.


Yeah that's what i was thinking plus it could tie in something we'd see in the next Thor or Avengers.


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Old Post May 2nd, 2013 06:10 PM
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Darth Thor
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Yeah really not sure why they did the Mandarin thing the way they did. Seems like it was just to have one big [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Joke in the middle of the film. Which I didn't like tbh. I don't like Villains being a big joke. You can be funny in different ways. Like Joker in TDK. Very funny whilst very intimidating.

Old Post May 2nd, 2013 06:50 PM
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Sixth_Winged
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah really not sure why they did the Mandarin thing the way they did. Seems like it was just to have one big [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Joke in the middle of the film. Which I didn't like tbh. I don't like Villains being a big joke. You can be funny in different ways. Like Joker in TDK. Very funny whilst very intimidating.


Well they could have done that but might risk people will claiming him as a joker ripoff and besides, Mandarin's personality isn't the one for jokes. However I do prefer the main plot centered on him rather than the extremis plot and they could have have done just as good as a job. They went the other way of course but the attempt they did was fine so long as you dont expect too much IM lore accuraccy.


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Old Post May 3rd, 2013 05:13 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
They went the other way of course but the attempt they did was fine so long as you dont expect too much IM lore accuraccy.


Problem is it wasn't even close to being accurate (in terms of the villains.)

And the route they took was a big risk Imo, which many people are not going to like. In fact I've hardly seen anyone say they liked that part of the film.

Old Post May 3rd, 2013 10:03 AM
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roughrider
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I knew some twist was coming with Mandarin, and I was trying my best to stay out of stories and threads revealing what it was. I was wondering, since they seemed to be going all in on the outfit and everything. Having seen the movie yesterday...the twist was humourous and didn't bother me. Because the Mandarin is still at heart a Fu Manchu caricature, and so they went all the way with that only to reveal he's all show. No terrorist could be that much of a cartoon character and really be operating. In the comics the Mandarin still doesn't even have a name, yet runs a criminal business empire of his own? He IS comic booky. The reason they haven't been able to put him in the movies yet is because they hadn't found a way to do him realistically, leaving behind the cliche that he is. So they inverted it, going all in only to reveal him as an empty shell. I think this just leaves opportunity in a future film, for someone more realistic to eventually get the Ten Rings to use against Tony. Think they are sitting in the weapons vault in Asgard...?


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Old Post May 5th, 2013 03:16 PM
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WhiteWitchKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
I knew some twist was coming with Mandarin, and I was trying my best to stay out of stories and threads revealing what it was. I was wondering, since they seemed to be going all in on the outfit and everything. Having seen the movie yesterday...the twist was humourous and didn't bother me. Because the Mandarin is still at heart a Fu Manchu caricature, and so they went all the way with that only to reveal he's all show. No terrorist could be that much of a cartoon character and really be operating. In the comics the Mandarin still doesn't even have a name, yet runs a criminal business empire of his own? He IS comic booky. The reason they haven't been able to put him in the movies yet is because they hadn't found a way to do him realistically, leaving behind the cliche that he is. So they inverted it, going all in only to reveal him as an empty shell. I think this just leaves opportunity in a future film, for someone more realistic to eventually get the Ten Rings to use against Tony. Think they are sitting in the weapons vault in Asgard...?


I disagree though. Up to the point of reveal, Mandarin was a force to be reckoned with. He bombed multiple sites on American soil, hacked into U.S. news feds and the presidents phone line, killed a guy without remorse, had Killian working for him, and blew up Tony's mansion after be verbally threatened. I was expecting an all out war between the two then it turned into a joke and became another I'm pissed off at Tony Stark revenge story. Yet another mad scientist/business man who wants to get back at Tony. Boring.

Seems like Marvel and Black doesn't have the balls to do Mandarin justice because they were afraid of stereotypes. So what? Wasn't the Ten Ring terrorist group Middle Easterners?


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the ninjak
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I am as big as a Ironman fan as one can get.
I read the original comics at the age of 4.
And witnessed the Mandarin throughout the years.

And this choice was fine by me. I couldn't imagine a man with 10 rings of incredible power not destroying this version of Ironman. I was worried.

When a friend told me all the spoilers I was as shocked as you all were.
I wanted an epic Mandarin.

But in the end when I watched the film I realized that they made the right choice. The Mandarin was always a mess to begin with.
The Modern representation of the character was shown to be a madman with overwhelming power and didn't really know how to use it.
I can't blame the scriptwriters for heading down their path.

I want my other posters to grow up a little. And realize that a man with rings that can do what they do should defeat even the best of comic heroes.

They made the best choice in regards to such an insane and erratic character. And the Movies will always be separate from the comic medium for there isn't time to establish such an insane character as the comicbook version of the Mandarin.


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Old Post May 5th, 2013 08:24 PM
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WhiteWitchKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by the ninjak
I am as big as a Ironman fan as one can get.
I read the original comics at the age of 4.
And witnessed the Mandarin throughout the years.

And this choice was fine by me. I couldn't imagine a man with 10 rings of incredible power not destroying this version of Ironman. I was worried.

When a friend told me all the spoilers I was as shocked as you all were.
I wanted an epic Mandarin.

But in the end when I watched the film I realized that they made the right choice. The Mandarin was always a mess to begin with.
The Modern representation of the character was shown to be a madman with overwhelming power and didn't really know how to use it.
I can't blame the scriptwriters for heading down their path.

I want my other posters to grow up a little. And realize that a man with rings that can do what they do should defeat even the best of comic heroes.

They made the best choice in regards to such an insane and erratic character. And the Movies will always be separate from the comic medium for there isn't time to establish such an insane character as the comicbook version of the Mandarin.


But they didn't even need to give him power rings. The rings can be symbolic. I was fine with the mastermind who hates America that accidentally harmed IM's friend and IM wanting vengeance. It would be like watching a Ras/Joker type burning America down with IM and all his tech having a hard time finding the shadowy figure. It was heading in that direction until the reveal then it was hey another pissed off businessman wants Tony's head. Lol. They had a badass mofo Kingsley's Mandarin who was going to teach Stark and America a lesson, but no no, Mandarin is too hard to portray so we'll have another revenge story.


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Old Post May 6th, 2013 01:22 AM
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WhiteWitchKing
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The mofo would have been more than enough without rings. He doesn't have to fight IM. They can just have his Extremis henchmen do the job of tearing the armor off and then Mandarin wrecks Tony in hand to hand battle in the final fight.

What could have been if Marvel weren't such pussies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQhE...eature=youtu.be


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Last edited by WhiteWitchKing on May 6th, 2013 at 01:34 AM

Old Post May 6th, 2013 01:31 AM
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roughrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
I disagree though. Up to the point of reveal, Mandarin was a force to be reckoned with. He bombed multiple sites on American soil, hacked into U.S. news feds and the presidents phone line, killed a guy without remorse, had Killian working for him, and blew up Tony's mansion after be verbally threatened. I was expecting an all out war between the two then it turned into a joke and became another I'm pissed off at Tony Stark revenge story. Yet another mad scientist/business man who wants to get back at Tony. Boring.

Seems like Marvel and Black doesn't have the balls to do Mandarin justice because they were afraid of stereotypes. So what? Wasn't the Ten Ring terrorist group Middle Easterners?


It is tricky, since China is a huge market for movies like this one. They would have had to be explicit that Mandarin's history was of a Chinese national who stood against the revolution, so China's government wouldn't see him as a yellowface villain representing China as a whole.

There's some parallels here between this and The Dark Knight Rises from last year. I was mildly disappointed to find Bane wasn't the mastermind in charge after all; it felt like it took some edge off the final confrontation, seeing as Bruce was willing himself out of that prison the same way he thought Bane did (and only after that, could he defeat him.) So I understand a bit.

Right now, introducing any magic elements in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is a challenge. You would have to have Thor & Asgard involved in the story, bringing the worlds of science and magic (yes yes, one and the same in Asgard.) Because it worked in Thor, it worked in Captain America. You can't just have the Mandarin as a man who achieved immortality through self will and concentrating his chi; and has also been sitting on ten 'magic' rings of power all this time and not used them already to further his goals. Comic book logic and movie logic aren't the same.

Now perhaps they could have gone and just made him a triad kingpin with some access to tech and given him a name other than Mandarin - that's more realistic. But I'm sure fans would have complained about that, too.


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Old Post May 6th, 2013 03:12 AM
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BruceSkywalker
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i had no problem with the reveal.. it actually fit into the story that was told


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Old Post May 6th, 2013 03:24 AM
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WhiteWitchKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
It is tricky, since China is a huge market for movies like this one. They would have had to be explicit that Mandarin's history was of a Chinese national who stood against the revolution, so China's government wouldn't see him as a yellowface villain representing China as a whole.

There's some parallels here between this and The Dark Knight Rises from last year. I was mildly disappointed to find Bane wasn't the mastermind in charge after all; it felt like it took some edge off the final confrontation, seeing as Bruce was willing himself out of that prison the same way he thought Bane did (and only after that, could he defeat him.) So I understand a bit.

Right now, introducing any magic elements in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is a challenge. You would have to have Thor & Asgard involved in the story, bringing the worlds of science and magic (yes yes, one and the same in Asgard.) Because it worked in Thor, it worked in Captain America. You can't just have the Mandarin as a man who achieved immortality through self will and concentrating his chi; and has also been sitting on ten 'magic' rings of power all this time and not used them already to further his goals. Comic book logic and movie logic aren't the same.

Now perhaps they could have gone and just made him a triad kingpin with some access to tech and given him a name other than Mandarin - that's more realistic. But I'm sure fans would have complained about that, too.


From the portrayal in the trailer and movie up to the reveal, his 10 rings were merely symbolic and he was like a Bin Laden type shadowy villain. They just need to play up his mix parentage and that he's a villain who just happens to be part Chinese. That his attacks are global and even the Chinese government wanted his head. Mandarin was a Bin Laden/Ra's Al Ghul and I was fine with that. His attacks and terrorist group made him a threat even without mystical rings. Instead of what the trailer and following through on the build up, we get a cop out with another revenge story.


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Old Post May 6th, 2013 03:29 AM
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