Here comes the man-spider 2: the reasons on a new betrayal(spoilers)
Hello, yesterday i saw man spider 2: the betrayal strikes back, and here is my review of the movie. First of all, i hated the first movie as all the true spiderman fans did because it was a total betrayal for the character that we loved from the comics, for the reasons that we have talked many times, and my expectations about the movie werent too good, and yesterday, i discover that i wasnt wrong. I have heard some ridiculous things like "best comic movie ever" , " best sequel ever" , etc, etc. I wonder if those guys have seen the same crap movie than me, because this piece of crap is almost as bad as the first one. Lets go with my review:
The movie starts with the same crap that the first one, tobeys voice as the narrator of the story, and sounded as bad as the first one. But lets resume it in the good and bad points.
The good points:
The special efects: althought maybe looked a little bit unrealistc sometimes, too videogame, but in general the special efects of spidey swinging in the city, spidey fighting doc ock, doc ocks tentacles, etc, were the best part in the movie. Great, great fight in the train and in the bank and in the tower, but i think in the end the battle should be longer and more brutal.
Some supporting characters: as in the first part, Rosemary Harris and J K Simmons stole the show. Donna Murphy as Rosalie Octavious, otto's wife, was good too.
Tobey Maguire as peter parker: He was really very good as Peter, although his voice doesnt work again.
The bad points:
The old ones: Spidey again with organics, the story (althought is better than the first one) is wrong again. Too many focus in peter parker and too little in spider man and doc ock. Not enough wisecrackings again , spidey not talking himself like in the comics.
A copycat from superman: the obession of Raimi with copy superman as in the first one, see the scenes with the shirt and the spider simbol or the loss of powers like in superman 2.
Loss of powers: so, peter loses his powers because he cant concentrate in his work? just dumb and non sense. It sound an excuse to me to see spidey rating out webing in some scenes.
The people in the train seeing who spidey is: That was stupid too, please, how on hell could you believe that none of those people wont tell anybody who spidey is,? that was stupid. So, all the people in a train see that peter is spidey and nobody wont tell it? Raimi, you must be joking.
Spidey powers: So if doc ock is a normal guy and spidy has superhuman strenght, how on hell he cant beat him with even pouching him 5 or 6 times, that was also stupid. So , spidey could stop a train and lift a car and he cant beat a normal guy with several punches?.
Mary jane as gwen again: i have included it in the new ones because in even she has her hair more blondish to look more as gwen. Stupid and unnecesary again. Again, Kirsten Dunst was terrible as Mary Jane. I dont know that if its Kirsten's fault or the scripters fault, but it happened again. Gwen stacey with red hair.
James Franco: again, Franco was too weak as Harry, his role is even worse in this part because he doesnt add anything to the story.
Bad developing of the supporting characters: Again, they go screen time to that stupid character of Hoffmam( played by Raimi's brother) and who add anything to the story , Robbie Robertson and Betty Brant are just cameos.
and lets go with the worst part of this terrible film:
Doctor Octopus: Lets see, Alfred Molina is a very good actor and he is a very good choice for the role, but with the atrocity of the script, he couldnt do more. Its really ashamed and stupid and pathetic and sad that sam raimi has one of the best villains in comic story ever and he and the scripters ruined him totally. So , the real villains of the movie are the tentacles? Lets see.
Myopic: I know that it is a minor change, but why doc is wearing graduated glasses as in the comics?
Matrix style: why he is wearing that sunglasses and that coat as morheus in the matrixx? why not a lab coat? that is the lack of imagination of the scripters?
A good guy: In the comics, Otto Octavious is really bad guy before the accident, not a villain, but yes a real arrogant and pompous prick, and in the movie he is mr right; mr nice guy who wants to save the world. That was pretty stupid. So , he is a good guy controled by the tentacles who talk with him? Please, give me a break. What is the problem with doc ock being bad by himself? why not developing him as in the comics ? and even the lack of the imagination of Raimi and the scripters is so big that they go and copy batman and robin: doc ock turned good ( or better said, scapes from the control of the tentacles) and saves the world as a hero. What a blafesmy. They dont have enought with ruined spiderman and the green goblin, they have to ruin doctor octopus too. Why change the things that work on the comics? why change one of the best villains in comics ever and turned him in the nice man of science corrupted by the evil tentacles ? what is the problem with the old doc ock that we have knowed and loved all the life? But sonny, Sam Raimi and Hollywod have to do it again, have to ruin the characters again, they have to do their own and precious vertion again.
To resume it, this piece of crap should be called man spider 2 vs the tentacles. Those movies wont never acepted by the true spiderman fans who could see what a betrayal are them.
And please, i hope that the thin blonde chick who is living in Peter's buliding wont be gwen stacey, because it would be one of the best worst casting choices with Michael Keaton as batman.
And i wonder, if in the third part the villain is the lizard, will be the real villain the tail? With sonny and Sam Raimi, everthing is possible.
__________________ The beatles, best group ever.
John Lennon, Musical genius of all time
Helen Mirren and Julie Christie , most lovely british actresses of all time.
if ur a true fan then why did u just see the movie yesterday? now im not sure when spidey2 came out in spain.( if it came out recently then i apoligize) but i think it was awesome, and iam a huge fan. of course the organics part is messed up but i disagree with most of ur other statements. it most be doin something right cuz its brakein all kinds of records. and out of curiousity what ur favorite comic film?
First,why he warned people before they read it that there are spoilers
Here comes the man-spider 2: the reasons on a new betrayal(spoilers)
(spoilers) !!!!!!!!!!
Its not his fault if people didnt see it.
Second, bakerboy is right the movie is a joke, and i saw the movies but i was hesitent because i didnt want to be dissapointed by Sam changing the origanal storyline and chaninging there personalities like in the first movie.
__________________ Formally known as "spider-venom".
Last edited by Stevie on Jul 17th, 2004 at 11:54 PM
its a MOVIE, not a fricking comic book. i would die of laughter if they simply Cookie cutter copied the plot from the comics. that thing has more plot holes than swiss cheese. I much rather would put up with spiderman in a new setting, from scratch then worry about al sorts of non relevant crap. i mean look at ultimate spiderman. he was bitten by a geneticly enhanced spider, does that ruin it? no. i mean i see the movies just like ultiamte spiderman, same basic stuff , new modern setting.
First of all, if the people, as spidervenom has said very well, didnt see my spoilers alert, isnt my problem. The word is very clear in the tittle, i think.
Second, it isnt babysh whinning or bitching , is a a review and a negative critic to what i think that is a betrayal to the true spider man fans, and a bad movie too.
And who has said that the movie should be exactly as in the comics? Superman isnt exactly as in the comics and 100 better that those stupid man spider movies. I want to see a spiderman movies that respects the origins and the concepts of the characters and stories from the comics, but with a new and original story with good acting and correct developing of the characters, and the man spider movies arent in that way. Only in the betrayal non sense way.
And the ultimate spiderman comics are a betrayal as great as the man spider movies and the stupid 70s tv series. That isnt an excuse, they are the same evil.
__________________ The beatles, best group ever.
John Lennon, Musical genius of all time
Helen Mirren and Julie Christie , most lovely british actresses of all time.
And i saw the movie only for curiosity to see what new betrayals are capable sonny and Sam Raimi, and i wanst wrong, there are a lot of them in the movie. And the fact that the movie is breaking the box office isnt a proove of its quality. There are many bad movies with incredible box offices and many good movies with poor box offices that it doesnt prooves anything. And my favourite comic boock movie is superman: the movie. A true classic.
__________________ The beatles, best group ever.
John Lennon, Musical genius of all time
Helen Mirren and Julie Christie , most lovely british actresses of all time.
ok first off i have too say that robo chocobobo (or what ever the hell his name is), put it best. its impossible to make a movie that is intirey true to the comics. there is no where enuff time to intruduce all the characters and fit them into the plot in 2hrs. if there is one thing that the spidey films do best is character development, and there relationships with each other. if u want to hate on these films then u can but id rather watch the movies then sit around all day readin the comics. take these films for what they are worth, ask ppl who have never picked up a comic and then ask them if they liked the movies, ill bet u a million dollars 99.9% will say they liked them...... and by the way u dont have to be a comic book junkie to actually be a fan of spiderman.
and secondly i personally dont find a alien from outer space ( superman) that realistic, especially that he can fly, hes faster then a speedin bullet, man of steel, has x ray vision, and is practically invincepal.
It's being really unfair - you should count the fact that Raimi focussed more on Peter Parker, the chemistry and relationship with him and Harry and MJ, more than Spider-Man. Peter Parker, for me anyway, is just as good a reason to watch a Spider-Man movie than Spidey himself is. If you know what I mean.
You have to admit - the movies have done a sterling job with Harry's descent into madness - especially since the comics royally screwed it up and made it into a farce.
The comics are guilty of some awful crimes themselves, a heckuva lot more than the movies.
For me, the movie should be seen more like a drama, because that what it is. It tells a brilliant story about brilliant characters.
I have to agree I don't really understand why Doc Ock was Mr. Nice Guy - but it didn't bother me at all - it at least made the story more involving.
Lets see, i want to anwser in this thread only for not awsering in two threads about the same thing.
Manowar: as i have said before, create two threads was my mistake, for that reason i want only to talk in this one because here is the my total review. And this isnt a thread of whinning, is a negative review of the movie. And its false that all the people are disagree with me, there are a lot of people who is agree with me. And if it wouldnt be in this way, it dont care about it. so, shutup you.
Carnage 713: as i have posted before, i want a movie 100% exactly as in the comics, i want a new story who respects the characters and the stories created by stan lee and steve ditko and this movie isnt it. Its only a bad movie that betrayls the character and the spirit of spiderman. Sure that there are enough time to developed more the characters, why not developed more the characters of robbie and betty and erase that stupid character of hoffman who doesnt add anything to the story? Only knows more about them, their names and another things. In superman , all the supporting characters are corectly developed, pa kent, ma kent, perry white, jimmy olsen, lex luthor, lois lane, jor el, etc. But in those movies, robbie and betty are only cameos. And i only want movies who are loyal to the characters, and those stupid man spider movies arent it.
And i have said that superman is realistic, none is realistic. An alien from outer space with superpowers and a boy with the powers of a spider aren realistic, but the superman movies are much better developed and with a much better script that the man spider movies ( specially the first two). Chris Reeve was clark Kent and Superman, Tobey Maguire was only Peter Parker, not spiderman.
Black cat: you are the one who is acting like a 1 year old baby because you are defending your precious movie like a toy, without reasons or explanations, only for you liked it, that is just childish. Beasides you are insulting me only for critize your precious man spider movie. Typical in a man spider fan. Lets see:
To compare to anwser a question with the spider man powers is just ridiculous and non sense. There arent not reason to loos his powers only for feel sad or for not concentrate in it. Its really dumb. Come on, the comic scripters has many much better reasons to the lose of powers, not that stupid thing from the movie.
Yes, the comics are about peter parker, but always spidey has his time . Same focus on both of them, peter real problems and spideys figthing criminals. In the movie, it was all about peter parker , with spidey as a guest star. If you put all the focus in peter , it is nothing more than a soap opera. That is one of the great mistakes of the movie.
I have said many and many times that the organics are a big change because peter is a freak with them, there arent any good explantion for not use the webshooters , a thing that has worked in 40 years of spiderman story, and it explains Peter Parker's genious, something that is missing in both man spider movies. Because the organics, he is now man spider , not spider man.
Your excuse about mary jane being more as gwen is the more lamest excuse that i have heard, so if the girls want a hero , lets go to change mary jane into gwen? are you drunk or something? If the girls want a hero, why not use the original mary jane from the comics. What is the problem with her?
James Franco is a very bad actor and his character is as important as a table in the man spider 2 movie.
This is good, Alfred Molina rocked and he is a great actor and doc ock was brillaint in the movie because i liked it. Well, a very wel made argument. If you were a true spider man fan, you know that to make of doc ock a nice man of science and a hero who redimes himself and saves the city, is a total betrayal to the character, in the same way that the power ranger goblin.
I was talking about doc wearing graduated glasses as in the comics, not only sunglasses. He is myopic in the comics. But they turned him in a white clone of morpehous from matrix, not the nerd and arrogant science man from the comics.
Surely, and if some of those people of the train could win millions of dolars for reveals his identity to the press, they are so good soul that will pass of it. You have nailed the point.
And insulting me only for critize that stupid movie only shows the arrogant and rude and childish man spider fan that you are. I can distinguish a good movie when i see it, and those man spider movies are just bad movies. Your problem, as a man spider fan as you are, is that you cant distinguish a man spider from spider man because you are only kissing the ass of sony and their crap movies. And dont put the lamest excuse of the money again, money in the box office doesnt mean talent and quality.
And i saw this crap movie only to see if it was as bad as the first one, and i wasnt wrong.
__________________ The beatles, best group ever.
John Lennon, Musical genius of all time
Helen Mirren and Julie Christie , most lovely british actresses of all time.
I thought James Franco was pretty good in this one, and I hear he's won awards in the past show it shows that those who know their acting think he's pretty good too.
The loss of the powers thing was great - it truly showed how bad Petes mental state was. His life was being run by being Spider-Man, and when he realises he IS Spider-Man, he gets them back, and carries on the burden as a stronger, more heroic figure, having made that choice very clear to the audience.
This was the first superhero movie that makes the audience understand why Spider-Man is so heroic. Superman never put this across, because he always seemed to powerful, and he had a million and one ways in which to overcome his troubles, and made the duty seem too glamourous, and therefore unbelieveable. Batman in his movies comes across as arrogant some times. Daredevil was Ben Affleck. Spider-Man was the first superhero on-screen that truly personified "superhero" in every sense of the word. That, to me, is more important than a silly dispute over webshooters and whether or not Doc Ock was bad or not to begin with.
Red superfly: Surely that peter parker is a reason for himself to see a movie. I want to see his relationships with mary jane, harry, aunt may, j j jameson and the others, but spidey is as important as peter is. I could acept that peter has a little more focus than spidey as it has hapened in the comics too, but not 85% peter parker and 15% spiderman. That is just wrong because they are making spidey only an excuse to tell the peter parker story, a minor thing in the story, and that is just wrong.
Some things about harry were good in the script, there are some good ideas, but the acting of james franco was too weak that ruined the character for me. Maybe with another actor playing the character and more screen time for him it could work better.
Im not agree, the movies has the bigest crimes agaisnt the characters that the comics never did, except in the ultimate spider man comics.
I preffer to see a right balance between drama and action, the movie was too about drama and too little about action.
Sorry, but made of doc ock mr nice guy was unreasonable and idiotic. Why on hell not use the original doc ock from the comics. What is the problem with him? And they go and copy one the worst comic book movies of all time, batman and robin, and made of ock the new mister freeze, he redimes himself and saves the world sacrificing his life like a hero. What an stupid thing. Raimi and the scripters ruined a great character once again.
__________________ The beatles, best group ever.
John Lennon, Musical genius of all time
Helen Mirren and Julie Christie , most lovely british actresses of all time.
robo-chocobobo....lol i am so putting that in my sig....
like i said, copying a movie completely, and faithfully is impossible, swiss cheese plot holes abound.
and 4 superman...i dont like him...i never could relate to him or other dc char's like i could with spiderman, and marvel peeps. i just cant relate to a alien demi god, that nothing except a pissed off grey alien can kill. i mean, i just find spiderman so much more human, and down to earth. someone on my level, with the same problems, instead of some guy who wears glasses as his only disguise, and his main problem is finding a phone booth to change in. I mean COME ON, HIS MAIN WEAKNESS IS TO A PIECE OF ROCK!!!!!!!
that and i really liked the scene in Spiderman(yes LIVE ON manspider) damn u - marks) were hes doing the laundry and his suit bleaches his clothes.
Red superfly: Im not agree with you. for me, james franco is a bad actor, his weak acting made the character of harry too fragile and nothing important to the story. I dont know if he is good in some movie, but for the work that i have seen from him, he isnt very talented.
But in the lose of powers issue, ok, i know that he wasnt too convinced to be spidey etc, but, what is the reason for the loss of powers? there arent any explanation. So, if he was afected for the radiation in octavious experiment, it could be right. But loose the powers for not being concentrate and when he is concentrate, hooss, magic, the powers again. That is a joke for me. It is just a dumb argument.
And what about make of the villain of the story a good guy turned bad only for his evil tentacles and becoming good again in the end? It is stupid and an atrocity for the character for me. And the webshooters is so important because it shows how a genious is peter parker and his way to superate all his problems. Both things are very important.
__________________ The beatles, best group ever.
John Lennon, Musical genius of all time
Helen Mirren and Julie Christie , most lovely british actresses of all time.
About superman and spiderman, i was comparing the movies , not the characters. Surely i preffer spidey over supes too, he is a more interesting character, someone to relate with him, with more real problems, someone more real. But the movie of superman was much better than the man spider movies and the script and the dialogue were much better and realistic.
And surely Molina is 100 times a better actor than arnold, but the end of both characters were the same, both becoming a hero.Same betrayal in both cases.
__________________ The beatles, best group ever.
John Lennon, Musical genius of all time
Helen Mirren and Julie Christie , most lovely british actresses of all time.
but him running ou of webbing is adds to the character also. i mean, its not so much of his genious, but his spirit, and mentality that makes him shine on the screen. his perserverance, his emotion, whatching as spiderman destroys his life, never to enjoy the fruits ofa life without this responsibility weighing him down.
when he was telling aunt may how he could have stopped the guy who killed uncle ben, it made my eyes all wet, and i felt that on the train(despite all you naysayers...you all know who you are) it only added to the film...and then, when all the people make a human shield to stop octavious he just goes BAM AND SHOVES THEM ALL TO THE SIDE.
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Jul 17th, 2004 10:46 PM
