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CAn super-man be beaten?
Is it possible for anybody in any form of fiction to beat superman? I'll touch of a few subjects here.
Superman vs. a Jedi
would Superman win in a fight against a Jedi Knight? Would a Jedi be fast enough to sense Superman's approach? Could the Jedi manipulate Superman in mid-air? Could a lightsaber be made from kryptonite?
Jedi are fast, and part of their training involves fighting without using their sight or other senses. But they don't quite reach Superman's speeding-bullet status. Physically, Superman has the upper hand.
Because of Superman's strength and speed, using the Force to manipulate him mid-flight would be a lot like manipulating a starship. If the Force could manipulate starships in flight, Darth Vader could have crashed all the X-wings during the Battle of Yavin. Or, Luke Skywalker could have destroyed all of the Star Destroyers during the Battle of Hoth. The logical conclusion is that Jedi are not capable of stopping something as strong and fast as a speeding starship. Some portrayals, like the "Clone Wars" series, do show Jedi performing extreme feats with the Force, but those feats come with a price. To even attempt to stop Superman in mid-flight could seriously injure or kill a Jedi.
Finally, there are two reasons why a Jedi wouldn't have a lightsaber made from kryptonite:
* A lightsaber uses crystals to focus the blade, and gathering these crystals from the planet Ilum is a rite of passage for a Jedi. Under certain conditions, the crystals emit light and energy. Kryptonite is not typically crystalline; it's usually a metal or a rock. The crystalline versions of Kryptonite that have existed have emitted radiation, just like Green Kryptonite, rather than light or energy.
* Kryptonite affects Superman because of its radioactive properties. Adding kryptonite would only make a lightsaber more deadly to him if the resulting weapon emitted the same radiation.
However, a lightsaber may be useful against Superman even without the presence of kryptonite, since magical weapons can harm him. If the Ilum crystals are by nature magical, then the blade might slice through Superman just like it can slice through Vader's arm. With these points in mind, it seems unlikely that a Jedi could defeat Superman, regardless of who has the high ground unless lightsabers are magical.
A Sith Lord, on the other hand, could be a formidable opponent for Superman. Unlike Jedi, Sith Lords don't hold themselves to a code of balance or fair play. They give in to powerful emotions like passion and rage, and they use the Force with a vengeance. Sith Lords also use synthetic crystals and make other adjustments to their lightsabers. They may be more likely to entertain the idea of making a kryptonite or magical lightsaber. Failing that, a Sith Lord may tune his lightsaber in such a way that it bypasses Superman's protective field
A Sith Lord's no-holds-barred approach to wielding the Force also provides a potential advantage. So while he might not be able to stop Superman in midair, a Sith Lord could act first, unleashing the Force while Superman was on the ground. The ensuing fight between a Sith Lord and Superman has the potential to be long and brutal, especially as the Force weakens Superman. A Sith Lord could win, depending on:
* How effectively and repeatedly he can strike Superman with a lightsaber or Force lightning
* Whether these weapons have an effect on Superman If the Force and lightsabers can affect Superman, they could allow a Sith Lord to overcome the natural advantage Superman seems to gain when fighting evil.
Superman vs. Superheroes
The most logical people to pit against Superman are other superheroes. Even though they can't all beat Superman, many can at least hold him off for a while. Most of the superheroes we'd like to see go head-to-head against him are from Marvel Comics rather than D.C. Comics. The barrier between those worlds would have to fall for a while to let these brawls take place.
Some of the X-Men might be able to take on Superman without a lot of help. A fight between Wolverine and Superman, for example, would be like an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. Superman is stronger and faster, but Wolverine has his adamantium skeleton and claws. Ultimately, the outcome depends on how strong and sharp adamantium really is and whether it can stand up to Superman's strength and heat vision. Wolverine's healing factor might give him a slight edge, but not if Superman hurls him into the sun. The outcome of their fight would depend on luck, chance and cunning.
While Wolverine might hold his own while fighting Superman physically, Professor X and Jean Grey -- even pre-Phoenix Jean Grey -- are ideally suited to fighting him telepathically. Both are powerful psychics, and Superman has no defense against psychic attacks. Either character could defeat him by entering and destroying his mind, especially if they caught Superman by surprise.
Another good opponent from the X-Men is Rogue, whose mutant abilities allow her to absorb ordinary people's strength and memories as well as mutants' superpowers. With a little luck, Rogue could touch Superman and absorb his powers. If she held on long enough, she could kill him, but it's unlikely that Superman would allow her to do so.
However, the power Rogue absorbs may be the ability to gain strength from the Earth's yellow sun rather than the physical manifestations of that strength. If that's the case, she would lose the ability she absorbed long before becoming strong enough to fight Superman. In addition, Superman is much faster than Rogue is, so she'd need perfect timing or the assistance of other X-Men to distract him while she made her move.
With members like Rogue, Professor X and Wolverine, it seems obvious that a team of X-Men could overpower Superman with ease. However, his speed, hearing and physical invulnerability could make the battle difficult -- the mission would require extensive planning and careful execution.
Superman vs. Magic
In some ways, magic is the new kryptonite. Superman has no defense against it, and it can affect him greatly. He's fought many powerful magicians, many of whom have been difficult to defeat. The outcome of these battles depends on strategy and exactly what kind of magical powers he's facing.
At first glance, Gandalf the Grey, a wizard from "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring," is no match for Superman. After all, he seems to be an elderly gentleman with a staff and a pointy hat who can make fireworks. But the important thing to remember is that Gandalf single-handedly defeated the Balrog known as Durin's Bane, an enormous, fiery demon inadvertently unearthed in the Mines of Moria.
Gandalf and the Balrog are both of the Maiar -- powerful spirits present from the beginning of the world. The Maiar are second only to the Valar, the godlike beings who sang the world into existence. Gandalf isn't just an old man with a stick, and the Balrog isn't just a monster made of fire. They're both essentially demigods.
If you don't remember Gandalf's fight with the Balrog, here's how it went down. The foes met on the bridge of Khazad-dùm in the Mines of Moria. Gandalf stood between it and the rest of the Fellowship. He broke the bridge, and he and the Balrog both fell. Gandalf chased the Balrog for eight days, then fought it for two days and nights. Finally, he threw the Balrog from the top of a mountain, and its fall broke the mountainside. After the Balrog fell, Gandalf died.
The Balrog succeeded in killing Gandalf for one reason; when their battle began, Gandalf was already weary. If he faced Superman rested and refreshed, their battle would resemble his fight with the Balrog or Superman's first fight with Doomsday. Doomsday is the only being that has ever managed to kill Superman.
In fact, Gandalf and the Balrog are similar in much the same way that Superman and Doomsday are. Gandalf and the Balrog are both Maiar, and Superman and Doomsday are both super-powered beings from Krypton. Both pairs are like two sides of the same coin. Buildings crumbled around the brawling Superman and Doomsday, and a mountain peak turned into lava and rock as Gandalf and the Balrog fought.
A fight between Superman and Gandalf would be similar -- the landscape around them would shatter from its impact. But, in the end, Gandalf is immortal, and he's nearly a god. Even though he doesn't have the youthful appearance or visually stunning powers that Superman does, he has the divine power to outlast and eventually overpower him. In addition, although he doesn't wield fireballs, Gandalf has power that most people would call magical and which can affect Superman.
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Currently: Eating chicken?
Superman vs. Harry Potter
Gandalf doesn't create many visual displays of magic, but Harry Potter does. Even though he's just a teenager and hasn't completed his magical training, Harry Potter has plenty of ammunition against Superman. Whether it's something as silly as the Bat-Bogey Hex or as devastating as Avada Kedavra, Superman has no defense against magic.
The real question is whether Harry would stoop to using one of the Unforgivable Curses on Superman. With the Imperius Curse, Harry could force Superman to do something deadly, like walk into a room full of kryptonite. He could also debilitate Superman with the Cruciatus Curse, which causes pain so intense that it can drive victims insane. Or, he could kill Superman directly with the Killing Curse.
However, the three curses that could bring a swift and deadly end to a fight with Superman are also the three that Harry is least likely to use. All three are forbidden in the wizarding community. The only wizards who use them are Dark wizards, aligned with Voldemort. However, Harry has a Batman-like desire to avenge the killing of his parents. If Harry were convinced that Superman killed Lily and James Potter, he might react with the Unforgivable Curses.
Superman has beaten Hulk three times in crossovers.
Many characters can beat Superman, of course. I won't make a long list now. Of your list, Gandalf has the best chance.
Wolverine as an irresistable object? God, fans love to overestimate Logan. He has virtually no chance against Superman.
__________________
"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
Gender: Male Location: US
Currently: Eating chicken?
Well, with Wolverine, it really all depends on his claws, and if they can peirce Superman. If they can't, he's ****ed one on noe. But with some of the other X-men, Logan could get some free hits. But Still, Wolverine can't beat Superman, unless his claws can peirce his skin. Otherwise, as I said, he's ****.
Gender: Male Location: US
Currently: Eating chicken?
Ok, rather than just saying "They can't" why don't you rpove how. I actually came up with reason as to who and how some people could/couldn't beat Superman. Prove me wrong, don't just say I am.
Regardless of whether adamantium claws can penetrate supes' skin, Wolverine probably can't apply the force required to do it. Supes is supposed to be virtually invulnerable and adamantium virtually indestructable.
(1) The first DC vs. Marvel, Superman won by knockout. (fan voted.)
(2) The second Superman/Spider Man crossover - by Jim Shooter & John Buscema - Superman would stand still and take every punch the Hulk threw, so to pluck the transmitter (driving Hulk mad) out of his ear. It worked, and Hulk just changed back to Banner with Supes calming him down.
(3) Hulk vs. Superman, by Roger Stern & Steve Rude. Superman would take a lot from the Hulk but eventually show him who's top dog.
__________________
"I'm not smart so much as I am not dumb." - Harlan Ellison
Fine, I'll take the bait. For one, Superman has a biological force field around his body, which adds on extra durability to his body. Two, you have to be pretty strong to even scratch Superman, which Wolverine is not. He can barely cut Hulk, you think he's gonna cut Superman?
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Yeah, Yoda could hang with Supes.
If he can stop large pods that way several tons being pushed down at him with the force, stop them in mid-air and send them back no less, he might have a shot at stopping supes flight.
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Jul 28th, 2006 04:35 AM
