This has been done many times. Perhaps only Batman vs Captain America has been discussed more. I tried to respond but was led here so I'll start my post.
First: A few overlooked facts about each.
Magic: Magic is NOT a GUARENTEED victory over Superman. He's just as vulnerable as the average guy. Superman can beat magic based beings if he can work around the magic. It all depends on the weilder. Dr. Strange will give him fits, before losing. Some of the rest can be formidable but will still lose.
Magic, in the way THOR uses it, can be used to beat Superman, however, it all depends on what's at stake and how Superman fights.
Advantage: THOR
SPEED: THOR DOES NOT HAVE SUPERSPEED. I have heard this ridiculous claim before. He's never been written that way and it doesn't hold true here. It can used for travel but that's it. .......................Superman uses it for travel and for fighting, though not as often as he should. Still
Advantage: Superman
STRENGTH: Superman has the clear edge here. FORGET all that garbage about "10 TIMES Berserker Rage (chalk that up to POOR 89--96 writing. That was the WORST era in comics. During that time, Wolverine---could take on Galactus------and win).
ALSO---------Rule out the "Belt of Strength", as that was used only at times when THOR was otherwise weakened by other means.
Neither is used on a regular basis for THOR. I rule this out, just as I rule out anything that concerns "Pre-Crisis Superman"
Advantage: Superman
POWERS: THOR has the Mjolnir, and all it is capable of. Superman has his various powers. THOR has the edge here. He would have a bigger edge if we were talking a fight to the death, which I will not even discuss about heroes.
Thunder God vs Super Alien: Again, no guarenteed win for THOR here. If that were the case, he'd be Undefeated in the MU, another thing the "Guniesses" at WIZARD overlooked. THOR HAS A FEW LOSSES TO MORTALS UNDER HIS BELT, though, to his credit, NOT MANY.
In my view, "Superhero fights are fun to discuss but I do so from a "Win by KO" perspective, not a "Kill" perspective.
THE FIGHT
Thor would take a pounding after gaining an early lead with the attack of Mjolnir. People often speak as if Superman would simply stand there and take each attack. WIZARD MAG (very Pro-Marvel) once stated that THOR would win after the "143rd" blast. SO SUPERMAN WOULD JUST STAND THERE? WHat is he doing from 1--to--142. ------------AND These same clowns had Wolverine beating Green Lantern. RIIIIGHT.
The Power of Mjolnir would trouble Superman early. THOR CAN NOT WIN UNLESS HE USES MJOLNIR. IT's That Simple.
Superman will eventually figure a way to avoid further attack from Mjolnir. He will learn, quickly, that it's not a healthy thing to take too much from the hammer.
Superman will try his various vision attacks but non would really hurt THOR. Some might pose a distraction for further attacks but none would stop him.
The fight would boil down to a SUPER_SLUG FEST, with Superman, not totally relying on Speed, but landing punches about 3--to--1. THOR would still use Mjolnir and move a lot of earth in the process. He would surely do some damage with it.
Superman would avoid enough of Mjolnir's attacks to gain an edge later in the fight. I don't see Superman winning by KO as easily as he did in the Crossover. However, he wins in much the same way. There just isn't enough pages (or money to pay the artists) to do it the way it should be done.
There are ways THOR could win. However, I'm talking about ONE battle with the most likely victor. That would be.................
Between the DCU and MU , the only two comic companies that matter, IMO, THOR and Silver Surfer are the only two who stand between Superman and Captain Marve.
You override a certain time thats in continuity just because you dont like it. Thats not good, sir. Unless Marvel had a crisis that overrided those, anyone can use them.
Second. Thor doesnt NEED that (hyperbolic or not) berserker upgrade. He has planetary level strength feats without any boost whatsoever, even beyond if taken some boosts. Hes in the same level, take it or leave. Wich is the reason SM in Jla/Avengers didnt defeated him, via a direct slugfest.
Thor doesnt need the hammer to perform magical attacks. He just loses the over the top versability and speed. He can still call magical ligthing and perform at least one of his uber attacks. He has killed Durok (the guy who broke Surfers Board with just strength) in a mano a mano, using just that.
Yes, you read it well. With the hammer, Thor does have superspeed. Thats how he flies around the galaxy in just moments.
Superman has lost against mortals before, and gods too for that matter.
About using your brains, Thor has deflected and absorsed HV atacks from Gladiator to no harm. If both use theyr heads, the match is going to complicate, but SM will lose the effectiveness of his long range attack, while Thor (if using the hammer) has more at his disposal.
And lastly, Wizard is as much of a fan magazine as you can get. Its hardly "oficiall" when it comes to these discussions. Altho i sense you got this "SM is way stronger than Thor", from Wizard itself, than his comics.
Lifting Jormungand is a suspect feat at best. Seeing as Thor was on a flying ship at the time when he pulled (not using his owh limbs) the snake off the world. It could well be a feat of invulnerability. As he may not of been his muscle power lifting the serpent more the giant ship he was standing on. It's like how pulling the moon isn't a feet of strength for Superman more one of speed.
You must of read a Different JLA/Avengers I distinctly remember Superman beating Thor in close combat.
Flight speed does not equal combat speed. Give an example of Thor showing reaction speeds even on par with quicksilver.
1- The ship was where Thor was standing on. It wasent what made the force behind the line. It wasent what it pulled it. Obviously it had to -somehow- stay in course and not break. But hey, top tier lift stuf without breaking it apart, its comics.
Thor alone was the one doing the forcework. And sure its suspectfull, like 90% of the feats out here, no reason to pretend that SM`s feats are any more reasonable.
And no. He did moved the moon when he had help. Fligth alone, doesnt make it. You need the force to move such a thing.
2- Wich wasent a direct slugfest. Im sure of that because the version of the book i read didnt had them just punching.
3- No one is saying it does. However hes not going to just stop and let SM hit him all the time without reacting either. Ask Moongoose.
And he has been showed as a blur to the human eye before and also stated to be fast as such on ocassions. Hes not SLOW. Because even if he was, slower characters can always tag faster characters. WW-Zoom. Hercules-Quicksilver.
Both can beat the other. Its that simple. And neither is less stronger than the other.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 30th, 2006 08:16 PM
