Wonder Woman. They're both pretty close in power- magic champions empowered by the gods and all, so conventionally it's been a close fight, but Diana has a cheat. If she gets her lasso on him, she can make him say "Shazam," which puts the odds well in her favor.
Agreed, I'd place Diana a notch above Billy because of experience, age and comic apperances. Billy might be considered Superman's equal, but to me Diana is the female version of Superman. Sure she doesn't have xray vision, or superbreath, but what she lacks in that department she makes up with the wonder bra.
Captain Marvel. He has the physical edge, and his wisdom of solomon trumps her experience. Not to mention resistance to magic.
Cap and Superman always seem to be relative equals. WW and Superman when not being written by Byrne do not. So I'd probably give Cap the edge since I would guess he's her physical superior all around. He is basically Superman without his weakness to magic. Meaning Wondy gets:
Point of order, she has more wins against Superman than CM does
The first scan was an alternate timeline where everyone not Superman or Batman seemed super-weak (I mean, compare to Sacrifice put out in that same era, by Greg Rucka in a major DC event, where she comes out on top. Or For Tomorrow, by Brian Azzarello, where they stalemate without really hurting each other until a distraction comes up) and on other occasions she's taken Zeus's lightning without an issue, Storm's really shouldn't do much.
She and CM are physically near, their powers often come from the same beings or direct analogies often (speed of mercury/speed of hermes), and they've both been called to hold off mind controlled Superman occasionally. They're pretty much the only two who are tapped for that role regularly, and they're both pantheon champions. It's no surprise they're similar in many respects with some advantages and disadvantages.
If anything, they've got different advantages (next to each other at least; both'd beat almost anyone else in DC and personally I rate them as rounding out the top-three herald level physical heroes on DC Earth. To most others, they're both "Magic punch KO" ). Marvel's tougher and more suited to back-and-forth pounding, but WW's more skilled in hand to hand, and unlike Billy, has additional non-strength/toughness related powers and weapons. Marvel can stand his ground against Supes well, but he's also got a harder time seizing the initiative.
Quanchi is known for chronically severely downplaying WW and may safely be ignored entirely, btw.
The situation was Superman was trying to get to the plot item, which had made Lois vanish, presumed dead, and Wonder Woman is trying to stop him because she thinks he'll die too, while Superman wants to take the risk that it does something other than kill people.
So all she was trying to do was stop him from getting to it, and all he had to do was get past her. So they slammed each other around for a bit with no real damage (which, I think, makes sense- they're each strong enough to hurt each other, but in order to cause real damage they have to *mean* it).
Then, finally, a nearby helicopter gets into danger, and Wonder Woman has to go rescue it, finally giving him the opening to get to the plot item and get vanished too.
Neither going for the kill, but all Superman had to do was get past her, and WW was trying to restrain him. Both could be described as just wanting the other to 'back off'- WW wanting Superman to back off from the plot item, and Superman wanting her to cease stopping him.
The real funny bit is if she was doing for restraint, why'd she leave her lasso behind and bring a knife instead? (Answer: Because it's easier on the writer that way!)
What's wrong with Sacrifice? It has him using his powers pretty much ideally as KMC would want, aggressively and in combination in a way better than he does in 98% of his fights, with maybe the Elite fight and OWAW being better. It's pretty much everything you could hope for in a battle between two of DC's best, with both of them using every power in their arsenals and pulling out all the stops to try and win.
The writer's one of DC's big guns too, Greg Rucka who was a key writer in the event and with a consistent writing track record (52, Checkmate, etc.).
And it is just one of many- even the infamous 'kludd' panel is from a comic where the vampire-controlled Superman couldn't beat Wonder Woman, and the vampire controlling him had to help out and double-team to win. Then there's the Circe-Superman one where he was actually physically enhanced (but also less controlled or smart, so there's arguments either way with that one). Not many non-mind controlled ones, just For Tomorrow and League of One that I know of, FT as discussed has no injury to other side, and League of One is pretty much just her jumping him and bruising him up enough so that he'll be slowed down in saving the Justice League letting her do her thing, namely taking on a foe that'd probably kill her.
So, ironically, both have proven if they want to get past the other, they won't actually be able to fight past, but will instead rely on some other factor to draw them off, and then they'll go do something probably suicidal on their own.
The way it's presented, Superman holds something of an edge against her, but if he makes a mistake she has the ability to exploit it and turn things around. CM's able to stand toe to toe a little better, but he has less way to make him make a mistake or exploit one.
I don't think CM has ever fought Superman who's going all-out and using his powers in combination.
These aren't exactly subjective things. What's there to disagree with? Those were Superman's and Wonder Woman's motives and objectives in the For Tomorrow fight, Superman and WW used all those powers in Sacrifice, etc. etc..
Seriously, what is it about "proven track record and outright in-character statements and events" that gives people such trouble with WW's power?
War of the Gods even had two pantheons choosing CM and WW as direct champion/rivals, similarly empowered and in the opinions of each pantheon, capable of winning. The gods themselves think they're on the same level.
Well, let's clear it up then. In For Tomorrow, what do you disagree about?
You've stated that you disagree, but not what part you actually interpret differently or how. It's not like it's in question that he only had to get past her to win, that was the plot point.
And with Sacrifice, you just said 'ugh.' Just don't like the story? If you don't have a problem with it being used as a feat, but just don't like it, that's fine with me, but it'd be one of the hardest things to discount when talking source for a fight.
Well, I never stated they were even, so ok. Not really a disagreement there...
Superman is trying to save Lois and willing to throw his life away trying, so I wouldn't call him unmotivated to be sure...
One, outright stated to be not holding back, as well as visually using his powers in some of the most aggressive ways he's ever done so (combination speed, strength, and heat vision to try and toss a target into the sun?! That's strait CIS off type stuff), and two, utterly vulnerable with his throat cut just sitting there.
You can not like it, but the former is directly stated, and the latter is pretty obvious. If someone can't try and defend themselves without bleeding out, they've lost.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 10th, 2010 01:33 AM
