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Should Superman Kill?
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Yes! Kill them and torture them!!! 1 5.00%
No! Superman should NEVER, EVER KILL, no matter what! 3 15.00%
Yes, but only as the last resort 16 80.00%
Total: 20 votes 100%
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Should Superman Kill?
Started by: Rao Kal El

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Rao Kal El
DJ FrostByte

Gender: Male
Location: The Fortress of Solitude in Venus

Should Superman Kill?

Should Superman Kill?

Back in the Golden Age or in the Silver Age this might sound like blasphemy, because there is this general idea that "Superman does not kill"

Where did We got this idea from?

Superman DOES KILL and He has done it in the mainstream media as well as in the comics.

Superman killed (or it seem so he did) General Zod on the second Donner movie

He surely did not saved Non or Ursa from falling into the fortress of soltitude pits

So apparently He did executed 3 Kryptonians right in front of our face and He got away with it.

He did kill again 3 kryptonians in the pocket universe saga and this was what it actually strengthen his moral code against killing, He will not try to kill again until He faced Doomsday.

I don't want Superman to become the Punisher and kill characters left and right, but given the level of threat He might be facing, I think He should do what He must.

What do you think?


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 07:41 PM
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-Pr-
...

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

No more or less than he does right now.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 07:54 PM
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Mindship
Snap out of it.

Gender: Male
Location: Supersurfing

Zod was like a Kryptonian Terminator: he never would've stopped. I think Kal did the right thing in this instance (good thing Kryptonians don't have excessive healing factors ... stick out tongue).

It may well be that MOS Kal was so repulsed by his own action, that this may be the basis for a No-Kill philosophy for future conflicts.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 08:08 PM
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roughrider
Thunderer

Gender: Male
Location: Canada

His policy should be just like Captain America's - not the first club out of the bag, show respect for the law and setting an example, but if you're out of options, don't risk the lives of others and do what's necessary.

Interestingly, Cap keeps to this stance even though he's sanctioned in some form by the U.S. Government; they would back him up. And when he's not working with the Avengers he's working with SHIELD agents, who all have licenses to kill. But he doesn't judge them. Just as Superman shouldn't judge or freeze out any friend of his, who uses lethal force to save his life and the lives of others (Cough *Wonder Woman* Cough.) wink


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 08:14 PM
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xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

Of course he should. This movie got some Superman readers upset as if he doesn't kill. Superman HAS killed before and still Is doing so. People are overacting about Man of Steel.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: it became evident that Zod was not going to stop, it was predetermined because of his genes. They destroyed nearly the entire city with no end in sight. It was justified and it was whati expected Superman to do. His reaction over doing so was also superb


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 08:17 PM
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Wei Phoenix
One-Eyed Dragon Of Oshu

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Southern Cross

I think Superman should do whatever he feels is right in his own heart so long as he is ready for whatever may come afterwards.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 08:32 PM
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JakeTheBank
Return of the King

Gender: Male
Location: Doomstadt

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
No more or less than he does right now.


thumb up

Honestly, the more and more I watch Man of Steel and think upon it, the more I appreciate the ending and Synder's reasoning behind it.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 09:22 PM
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Zack Fair
Fanboy

Gender: Male
Location: Under Satsuki's heel

I do not agree with death penalty. i think he should not kill.

Having said that I have no problem with him killing if no other option is available to him. I don't like him or Batman being hypocrites who will put people in jail only for them to break free and keep killing and torturing innocent civilians.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2013 10:53 PM
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roughrider
Thunderer

Gender: Male
Location: Canada

Mark Waid makes some valid arguments about this, regarding the movie.

http://collider.com/man-of-steel-en...olan-mark-waid/

You could make a case about there not being enough of a buildup to that moment, perhaps. But I don't disagree with the end result. It's extra significant because Zod represented the last link to his people. So to me it is understandable. Doesn't mean I want to see this all the time from Superman, in future movies.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 02:08 AM
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Zack M
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

I chose Yes, only at the last resort. I don't mind, really.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 02:21 AM
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xJLxKing
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

SPOILERSSS

As much I like Mark Waid, he seems to see Superman his way and his way only. He says and i quote, "Full-stop, Superman doesn’t kill.", but did he forget Doomsday, Superman 2, Zod, and countless others Superman killed?

I also dislike this thing that not only Mark Waid but countless other people claim and I hate it when I see it.

"show me that he’s going out of his way to save people from getting caught in the middle."

Are you kidding me? I can understand this reaction if it was against Lex Luthor or something other then Zod who is his equal if not his Superior. Their entire fight was portrayed that they were pretty equal and Superman did not have the time to just start flying and picking up people. Sure it works in cartoons and comics, but realistically, it's impossible to do that. We have seen against his fight with Foara that he attempts to save those he can and even guide them. Yet it also showed how hopeless Superman is when he is fighting someone near his equal. For all his efforts, all those soldier got killing in matter of seconds and there was nothing he can do.

Mark Waid even says
" show me, without doubt, that Superman has no other out and do a better job of convincing me that it’s a hard decision to make". Common, like seriously? Did he even watch the movie? Did the pre-determined role of Kryptonians not set in? Does he not understand that Zod himself explained his role in Kryptonian society? Did Zod not only say that he will kill all Humans, but say he would never stop? Can someone explain to me what other way method existed?

It seems he is just butt-hurt that MoS didn't go the same way Birthright did


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 02:33 AM
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JakeTheBank
Return of the King

Gender: Male
Location: Doomstadt

I like Mark Waid a lot, too, but yeah, he has a very specific idea of who and what Superman is. Which isn't a bad thing, but writers, a lot more so than fans, should know that the characters (especially Superman) thrive on differing portrayals and origin stories. Heck, this Superman was visibly far more shaken after killing the last connection he had to his race and home world than Reeve was, who actually seemed pretty pleasant by comparison.

The anguish from Superman was evident through the whole movie. He wanted Krypton and Earth to co-exist, but Zod refused. Even though he exclaimed that "Krypton had its chance!" earlier, it was obvious that the whole fight troubled Superman, let alone its conclusion. I personally have no doubt that we'll see Superman still at odds with his actions in the sequel, especially if we see any other elements of Krypton brought in.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 02:38 AM
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Zack Fair
Fanboy

Gender: Male
Location: Under Satsuki's heel

Waid was let the fanboy in him take over.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 02:40 AM
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-Pr-
...

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

I like Waid, but I think he's going overboard.

I'm not saying Man of Steel was a masterpiece, or the perfect Superman movie. It wasn't. It was, however, a good Superman movie, and actually laid the groundwork for us seeing a more familiar incarnation in the sequels.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 03:03 AM
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jedi90
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Re: Should Superman Kill?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Should Superman Kill?

Back in the Golden Age or in the Silver Age this might sound like blasphemy, because there is this general idea that "Superman does not kill"

Where did We got this idea from?

Superman DOES KILL and He has done it in the mainstream media as well as in the comics.

Superman killed (or it seem so he did) General Zod on the second Donner movie

He surely did not saved Non or Ursa from falling into the fortress of soltitude pits

So apparently He did executed 3 Kryptonians right in front of our face and He got away with it.

He did kill again 3 kryptonians in the pocket universe saga and this was what it actually strengthen his moral code against killing, He will not try to kill again until He faced Doomsday.

I don't want Superman to become the Punisher and kill characters left and right, but given the level of threat He might be facing, I think He should do what He must.

What do you think?


well, superman killed quite a bit back in the golden age. they never showed gore or explicitly stated it, but you have to assume he did kill when golden age supes flung a gangster into the horizon that he (gangster) was probably dead.

silver age supes didn't kill but sometimes left folks in situations where they were better off dead.

i don't understand what the big deal is, supes has killed at least 2 times post crisis.


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Last edited by jedi90 on Jun 19th, 2013 at 03:37 AM

Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 03:30 AM
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jedi90
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
Mark Waid makes some valid arguments about this, regarding the movie.

http://collider.com/man-of-steel-en...olan-mark-waid/

You could make a case about there not being enough of a buildup to that moment, perhaps. But I don't disagree with the end result. It's extra significant because Zod represented the last link to his people. So to me it is understandable. Doesn't mean I want to see this all the time from Superman, in future movies.


The problem is is that Waid didn't make a valid argument. I mean really, what else was supes going to do with zod within the context of that movie? the movie demonstrated the level of destruction and death that would occur if they just kept fighting.


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"I don't give them hell, I just tell them the truth and they think it's hell."

Old Post Jun 19th, 2013 03:36 AM
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bluewaterrider
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Mark Waid was one of my favorite writers.

Still is.



He's wrong on this particular point, though.


Zod had gone murderously insane; in the scenario the movie writers gave us, there WAS no viable alternative for Clark. He did what he had to.

Old Post Jun 27th, 2013 03:15 PM
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quanchi112
Unavoidable

Gender: Male
Location: Ohio

I don't think he should. I think you don't put Superman in that situation. Was too cold for Superman.


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Old Post Jun 27th, 2013 03:24 PM
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Endless Mike
Sqirrel Girl fanboy

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Actually in the Golden Age he killed people like every issue. He was practically the Punisher with superpowers.


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Old Post Jun 27th, 2013 04:20 PM
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juggerman
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

I don't think he should but in the situation in MoS he had no other real option imo


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Old Post Jun 27th, 2013 04:22 PM
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