A Phoenix avatar is stated on panel to be the ultimate mutation. There is no greater mutant power than telekinetic godhood. Forget all of this talk of potential, all we can go by is on panel feats.
Rubbish. The Phoenix is stated to be the ultimate mutation. As a mutant you cant get past the Phoenix stage.
Wanda can manipulate the laws of causality to create realities of her choosing however the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang which makes reality possible in the 1st place.
The White Crown Phoenix materialized the entire 616 universe within her palm atom by atom. It was nothing to her and yet someone who changes the face of reality within that little globe Phoenix casually has in her hand is somehow greater? Come on now
Phoenix would just atomize reality leaving Wanda in a void and therefore powerless with no reality to manipulate.
Thats assuming Wanda could manipulate something so fundamental as the sentient Big Bang which brought reality into place.
Wandas House of M warp was brought into place with the aid of Pietro for moral support and Professor Xavier whose telepathy enabled Wanda to find out what peoples innermost desires were and try and recreate them in her HOM reality. So she didnt do it alone.
Furthermore her reality warp was paper thin, because as Layla Miller showed on panel, 616 could still be seen through the veil of House Of M.
So not only is Phoenix more powerful, with stronger on panel feats. But her empowered avatars could react at superhuman rates, faster than the very human reaction times of Wanda. Wanda gets decimated straight up, or as aforementioned Phoenix places Wanda in a void leaving her powerless
You are dreaming, abstracts far more powerful than PF were nothing more than playthings to Wanda. Her powers extended to an omniversial scale, treathening even ascension.
(Which is a joke next to SG`s agility and wits ofc)
I think you need to do a bit of research into what the Phoenix Force is and what the abstracts are my friend
The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang made sentient. The abstracts such as Eternity, Infinity, Order, Chaos, Love, Hate etc are derivative of the Big Bang.
Do not let low showings by avatars fool you into under-estimating the Force.
The most powerful avatar held 616 in the palm of her hand after materializing it there atom by atom. The abstracts are just mere aspects of 616. Unless we're talking LT here, they are no comparison.
Wanda warped the 616 universe with the aid of Pietro and Professor Xavier to co-ordinate her efforts.
As shown by Layla Miller it was an amateur and incomplete job because it was just a thin veil through which 616 could still be seen.
The warping of 616 and the subsequent "No More Mutants" spell are Wandas feats. Impressive but merely universe scale feats and nothing in comparison to Jean Grey materializing the universes in the palm of her hand. Wanda and the abstracts in relation to that would just be ants in a sandbox.
As for this so called omniversal talk and threatening the ascension, what you are referring to is the Chaos Wave. The Chaos Wave as stated in Uncanny X-men 462 was TRIGGERED by Wandas warping of 616. It was not a direct creation of Wandas, it was not created, maintained and directed by Wanda. Therefore all the damage it did cannot be categorized as feats for Wanda. It was merely the leakover of Wandas reality warping through a tear in the dimensional wall of 616. There was no mention of it in the main title, it featured in a side story as it had nothing directly to do with Wanda.
Also the Chaos Wave only caused so much damage not because of any sheer power inherent to itself, but because the dimensional tear it leaked through was a doorway to Otherworld located at Excaliburs lighthouse as shown on panel. Otherworld is thanks to the Phoenix Force is connected to all realities through an energy matrix that the Phoenix established throughout the multiverse. It is a keystone of reality. So when the Chaos Wave leaked through the tear at Excaliburs lighthouse and collided with Otherworld, its compromised the structural integrity of the energy matrix causing a number of realities to collapse. If i hammered at a bridges keystone i could make the bridge collapse. Could i with as small an effort make the bridge collapse by striking it in other areas?
Furthermore the Chaos Wave was only a big threat if left unchecked. Much in the same way Jubilee could go around unchecked blowing stuff up and eventually blow up the whole of the States after a time, however we know as shown Jubilee is not unstoppable. Meggan and Excalibur some pretty insignificant characters on the cosmic scale quite easily put an end to the Wave. Just to reiterate, when confronted, it was no big deal, it was only when left to run loose it was a concern.
So just to summarise:
The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang, the firebird avatar is a sentient manifestation of the Big Bang.
The abstracts as stated are derived from the Big Bang whose power brought everything into existence. Including the abstracts.
Wandas greatest feats are an amateur warping of 616 that Layla Miller could see through and the No More Mutants spell.
The Chaos Wave was the leakover of Wandas reality warp through a dimensional weakpoint at Excaliburs Lighthouse.
The Wave was triggered by Wanda unwittingly. It and all it did are not attributable to Wanda in as much as the damage caused by an avalanche my big mouth created could be attributed to me.
The Chaos Wave hit a keystone of reality which was why so much damage was caused.
The Wave was stopped by the sub herald level Meggan from Excalibur.
Pitty, i would have liked to hear what was so wrong about GS's "delusions" iyo, 'cause i didn't really find a thing i could righteously label as false. Everything he spoke about, i did see on panel:
- the PF was labeled the living Big Bang (by Reed Richards, if i'm not mistaken)
- the Abstracts are just embodyments of their respective domain in 616 (not counting LT ofcourse)
- PotWC did rewrite 616, holding it in her hands
- Wanda did only warped 616, and that she did superficial
- the Chaos Wave was a side-effect of Wanda's warp, it's been triggered, not been controlled by Wanda (the avalanche comparison was quite fitting)
- etc. etc. etc.
The facts are just that - FACTS. What you make out of it may be written on another page, but GS's reasoning is far from being "delusional".
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I suggest you familiarize yourself with current continuity my friend. I can show you numerous on panel references to:
The Phoenix Force being called the Big Bang
The abstracts stemming from the Big Bang
The Phoenix Force Force being both the end end and the beginning of the the universal life cycle.
I can also show you on panel where its stated plain as day that the Chaos Wave was merely triggered by Wandas reality warp.
That Chaos Wave did so much damage because it hit a keystone of reality, not because of any massive inherent power.
If you would like i can also highlight the scenes where Meggan stopped it
You either have not read enough on the characters youre debating about, youre suffering from poor recollection, or you have misinterpreted. Dont make that my problem. Read again.
I think, White Phoenix of the Crown Jean Grey is not being an omega level mutant, though she is the most powerful among mentioned.
The Phoenix is a cosmic entity and did not make Jean omega in the first place. Please do correct me if i'm wrong with my opinion.
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MOst Powerful Mutant
Jul 17th, 2010 06:41 AM
