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mrsixer
Junior Member
Registered: May 2001
Location: dc
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the cave scene
i know this is the episode 2 and 3 forum but i didn't want my post to be lost in the other forums.
here's my question: going back to ESB when luke was training w/ yoda and yoda told him to go to the cave where he later saw vader. yoda originally told luke NOT to take his weapons belt, but luke decided to anyway, luckily for him. has there ever been an explanation as to why yoda told luke he wouldnt need any type of weapon?
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May 22nd, 2001 11:14 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Well, this will probably be moved...
Yoda's point was that fighting your way out of it wasn't going to help any. Luke didn't listen, did fight and lost, but from the experience learnt who his true enemy was.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 23rd, 2001 12:02 AM |
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Dim
Creativity
Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Southern California
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I think Yoda told Luke that his weapons wouldn't hellp him because there was noone in the cave for Luke to fight besides himself.
I do have to move this..but I wouldn't worry..RC will take care of you. 
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May 23rd, 2001 01:19 AM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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I agree. When Luke entered the cave, he was basically going to face his own fears. By taking his weapons he showed that he was very fearfull, probably brought on by his doubts in the Force.
If he had left his weapons, it would have represented his true faith in the Force and thus his ability to overcome his fears through the Force.
That's my interpretation of it anyway.
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May 23rd, 2001 06:00 PM |
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mrsixer
Junior Member
Registered: May 2001
Location: dc
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yes but if luke did not take his weapons once vader drew his LS he would have been in serious trouble.
are you all saying if luke did not take his weapons that the vader "ghost" would not have drawn his LS?
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May 23rd, 2001 10:03 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Ah, I see YOU fell for it as well..
Point was, Luke saw what he thought was his greatest enemy, engaged it in a fight and killed it, only to learn his greatest enemy was actually himself.
It wasn't real, after all. Luke, as far as we can gather, could not have actually died in there.
The would have 'passed' if he had not so thoughtlessly attacked the image of Vader. Quite what would have actually happened is up to you to imagine.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 23rd, 2001 10:15 PM |
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Dim
Creativity
Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Southern California
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Yeah...Vader wasn't in that cave. He had nothing to fight..It's like having a nightmare. You're really okay..it's just your subconscious.
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May 23rd, 2001 11:43 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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Exactly! It is highly likely that Luke would not have founf anything in the cave but bugs and snakes had he left his weapons behind.
He took his weapoons because he was fearful, his fear manifested itself in the form of Vader which he struck down. The fact thsat he daw his oen face was that it represented that he was fighting himself.
That was why Yoda called it a failure.
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May 24th, 2001 01:35 AM |
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Gundark
Mayhem
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Skywalker RanchModerator
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When Luke asked what was in the cave Yoda said "only what you take with you". If Luke had left his weapons, he would have still taken his fear with him and I'm sure the "Vader" scenario would have manifested itself in some other way in order teach Luke the lesson about his fears.
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May 24th, 2001 07:58 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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But that line come before the weapons bit?
I feel that in that line Yoda is referring to Lukes fear. By taking his fears with him, he was only going to find them with him in the cave. Luke then took his weapons because of his fear.
If we jump back to TPM, Yoda says that Fear is the path to the Darkside, Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the suffering. In short Fear can lead to the Darkside.
Lukes vision of himself as Vader is his fear pointing to the Darkside?
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May 25th, 2001 04:48 AM |
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darth fester
jay & silent bobs friend
Registered: Apr 2001
Location: geordie in milton keynes
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did you also notice that luke lit his light sabre first
and when he confronted vader at cloud city
he was also the first to light his light sabre
__________________
Go Go Power Rangers
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May 26th, 2001 01:47 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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Yes, I think that is key to what Luke is. He was also the first to go for his weapon in ROTJ, though Vaders may have been fats enough to get his b;ade lit first.
Basically, Luke always initiated the attacks.
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May 26th, 2001 02:46 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Touching, in a way, becuase it was Vader who drew on Obi-Wan...
Of course, Luke's aggressive nature tells us a lot about him, though only as part of the overall picutre. It is difficult to criticse Qui-Gon for drawing on Maul, for example. The difference there was that Luke was being impetuous whereas Qui-Gon simply knew there was no other option.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 26th, 2001 03:52 PM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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ACtually, have we ever had a scene where the good side didn't draw their saber first?
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May 26th, 2001 05:07 PM |
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Darth Pants
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: England
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Vader had his lit as Obi Wan saw him. I'll bet Anakin draws before Dooku too (if that battle actually happens). He'll probably be the most reckless and impatient Jedi we will see, with Dooku scolding and patronising him to make him even madder.
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May 27th, 2001 01:49 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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It was a simultaneous thing with Qui-on and Maul on Tatooine, though Maul was clearly the initiator there...
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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May 27th, 2001 01:57 AM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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Year, I was border line on the desert fight but I'd forgotten about the DS fight.
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May 27th, 2001 02:37 PM |
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Darth Pants
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: England
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Vader probably had his sabre already ignited because it was a real pain doing the extending effect back then. How DO they do it now? I know they can do clean passes over the backgrounds and paint out the sabres, but how do they get rid of sabres covering the actors' bodies?
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May 28th, 2001 01:08 AM |
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Ratcat
Senior Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
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I think it's all done on computer now. They just pain in or out what they don't want.
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May 28th, 2001 01:13 AM |
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Darth Pants
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: England
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The thing is, though, how do they know what was 'beneath' the object filmed, to add back into the shot behind the painted out object?
It's easy on a background, they get the camera to perform an exact repetition of the shot, and use the necessary bits of frames to fill in behind the missing object. It's different on an actor, painting out a sabre cannot account for the parts of the actor it covered up.
Hollow Man has some of the best 'painting out' you can see, but the director said it was impossible to remove an object covering up an actor.
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May 28th, 2001 01:39 AM |
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