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How or why...
Started by: Ushgarak

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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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How or why...


The 'Han at Mos Eisley' thread got me thinking... there are always parts in films that make less sense the more you think about them. So, I thought I'd get your opinions on a few- to kick us off, one for each film:

ANH: Why didn't Han hyperspace away from the TIEs pursuing him as he escaped the Death Star?

ESB: How exactly did the Millenium Falcon make it to Bespin?

ROTJ: Where the heck did that AT-AT go at Endor (and, on a persoanl note, why weren't there four dozen of them? THAT would have been an unbeatable force)?

TPM: How did Sidious and Maul track Qui-Gon and co to Tatooine?

Some of this stuff has been covered before, I know, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say now.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

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Old Post Mar 24th, 2001 03:05 AM
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JediOasis
Better Man

Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Born on a Different Cloud


 


I'll try to answer some as best as I can....

ANH-My best guess for him not going into hyperspace was because perhaps they(TIE's) were blocking his path. In ROTJ Piett says they are only to prevent the Rebels from escaping, meaning they were blocking them from going into hyperspace.

ESB-They made it to Bespin just by flying, no hyperspace. For all we know it could have taken days to get there because they had to fly at normal speed. Han knew it was far away but thought they would make it eventually without the hyperdrive working.

ROTJ-That one I can't answer, just one of the many flaws of that movie.

TPM-The only thing I can muster is that they have some sort of Sith technology unavailable to everyone else. Palpatine tells the Viceroy its not out of range for a Sith, they must have their own ways of finding people. Perhaps there is some way using the Force, just guessing.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2001 10:47 AM
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Ushgarak
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Thanks, JO. Of course, the TIES in ANH were doijg a pretty rubbish job of blocking the MFs path, to look at it.

And while we have to accept that Han somehow got to Bespin at sub-light, it would have takn him years or more, rather than days... still, gives time for Luke to become a Jedi, doesn't it? And then there's the question of what the Avenger was doing at Anoat in the first place,not to mention how it managed to rendezvous with Slave I without Han noticing...

That 'out of range for a Sith' line was just left dangling, sadly. Fact is, it was very bad from a filmmaking point of view that TPM failed to expalin how Maul found them. Still, gives us more to talk about.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 24th, 2001 06:35 PM
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queeq
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ANH: well, they did do a bad job, but then again having a couple of TIE's firing at you and having them in your flight path the moment you make the jump is a a tad risky.

ESB: The trip to Bespin probably took a few weeks or months. That gives Luke the time to train. Otherwise he would have had his training for only a few days, that's not very credible. Nevertheless, I think this was great movie making: they cleverly covered up this timespan.

TPM: Yeah, that was weak. Very weak. A TF with all that technology at their disposal and the financial means to get anything they wanted couldn't track them, but a Sith could. Bweeeerk, a hole in the story one could drive a truck through.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2001 06:49 PM
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jedi212guy
Sith Warrior

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Danville, Kentucky


 



Both ANH and ESB have been adequately answered. In ROTJ, the AT-AT could have been anywhere on the planet. After all, the commander said he wanted to search the planet for more rebels after Luke surrendered.

For TPM, I seem to remember something in the book about when the Governor was forced to send the message to their ship on Tatooine, Maul was able to figure out where the signal had gone. With that, he travelled to Tatooine and waited.

Feel free to demolish my ideas when you find something wrong with them.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2001 09:18 PM
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Gundark
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I don't think the empire would have sent a large AT-AT force down on Endor because of the heavy forests on the planet. They probably couldn't manuever as well with all the trees, and there are thousand of places to hide in those heavy forests, not economical to use AT's to hunt out small groups of rebels. The AT's had much better success on the open ground on Hoth.

As far as Maul finding our heroes on Tatooine, I agree that the message sent from Bibble was the only was Maul could have traced them the whole way to an obscure planet on the outer rim. AND the lack of explanation was poor. (Sorry Ush). smile


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2001 10:55 PM
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Ushgarak
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Err... guys. Why was Bibble's message sent to Tatooine, for god's sake? They didn't know where they were! That is a nonsense explanation.

The idea that Han's flight path was blocked is odd; he hyperspaces out of combat situations at other times(and tries to at other points when TIES are pursuing him) and at no point during the fight does a TIE fly in his flight path... all they needed to do was press a button.

The AT-AT is clearly seen at the generator during the film. And as for it being blocked by fotrest... what the hell does All Terrain mean? The forest didn't stop them deploying one, did it? There should have been more, because then they would never have GOT to the shield generator. And they should have levelled the forest.

Never mind though, that's just personal and away from the point. The Han to Bespin bit makes no sense, but it will have to be left like that. The others are just...mad.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 25th, 2001 02:04 AM
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Gundark
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Guess I've been in the asylum too long, Ush, I have gone mad. I know AT means All Terrain, I was just offering a possible explanation. Not going into hyperspace in ANH after they got off the death star made absolutely no sense from our point of view (hmmm....where have I heard that before..) but from the general movie-going popluation standpoint (of which we here are obviously not a part of) the Falcon/Tie fight scene made good cinema. Just a short space battle to whet the audience's appetite for the big one at the end. As far as Bibble, he sent the communication to the SHIP which just happened to be sitting on TATOOINE. Couldn't a connection be established by Maul ? Your comments, please. smile


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2001 03:53 AM
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queeq
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Yes, the Bibble message was sent to the ship. But the tracing is still poor storytelling.

Ush, explain why you think the Bespin trip still doesn't get to you. You have a problem with a longer time span of several weeks or months?

As for the AT-AT's, I think they ARE less suitable for a forest. Of course they could be used there, since we saw one. But remember that the Empire didn't expect a large band of flying teddy bears, only a small group of revel commando's. Why send in a squad of AT's if you have ST's that get there quicker. Even if they deployed AT's they might not have been there in time. From ESB we know that the ST's were quicker than the AT. And that was on flat terrain.


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2001 04:25 AM
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Ushgarak
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I would have imagined that the EMpire would have deployed maximum force on Endor; it's not as if capacity was a problem. Mind you, that's perosnal again. The trick is wondering where the AT-AT went.

Han's trip to Bespin would have taken years, not motnhs, but we have to let that go for storytelling. Oddly enough, I'm having the exact reverse argument on the Australian guy's site; where I'm saying that we have to accept the trip WAS possible, and the others... oh, you don't want to know.

How exactly do you send to the ship without knowing where it is? That's just too far...


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 25th, 2001 04:53 AM
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queeq
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Exactly my point, USh. That is pretty weird.


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2001 02:01 AM
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Zareil
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Right matey in answring your dilemma here is what I think.
QANH: Why didn't Han hyperspace away from the TIEs pursuing him as he escaped the Death Star?
AANH: You know that it is always wisest to calculate your way into hyperspace at that speed of flying out of the Death Stars back side I think he had better things to think about with the Ties on their tale.

QESB: How exactly did the Millenium Falcon make it to Bespin? Everyone seems agreed on that one, just go as fast as can on what littel you got.

ROTJ: Where the heck did that AT-AT go at Endor (and, on a persoanl note, why weren't there four dozen of them? THAT would have been an unbeatable force)? Ever think about these three things - one being that there are limited resources and even with the power of the empire they cant keep turning them out unless hugely necessary, which point 2 there wasn't an AT AT may not have much of a turning circle and so they would just get in each others way and knock another set of resources by damaging the plant life of the moon straight away whih to the empire may be of use later on. 3) It was meant to be a hidden moon ase and they were meant to let the rebels think it would be relatively simple, not simple if they sit there with 60 At Ats waiting for you fairly obviously on the planet surface

TPM: How did Sidious and Maul track Qui-Gon and co to Tatooine? Maybe the plantary telemetry works on a form of E-mail type system even over vast distances a communication is sent to the address of the ship as it were and this got Maul to find out... Whatha think...

Some of this stuff has been covered before, I know, but I'd like to hear what you
guys have to say now.

Old Post Mar 28th, 2001 03:03 AM
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Ushgarak
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Ok, buddy...

1. It takes him all of thirty seconds to jump out in ANH when he escapes Tatooine, or three times when they attempt to escape in ESB- in each instnace, they are under fire. He deosn't seem hassled then, why should he in ANH when the TIEs are pursuing?

2. Yeah... but it's still nonsense...

3. Those AT-ATs aren't even close to the size of a Star Destroyer, of which the Empire had loads. So there should be plenty of them. And as for their unmaneuvrability... that's a bit irrelevant, really. Mass armoured formations work fine. And if they had 60, a trap would have been unnecessary becuase the Rebels would not have even got close to the Generator... But NEVER MIND all that, becuase as I said, that's just personal. The QUESTION was where did the one THAT WE SAW go to?

4. If it worked like that, the Ship would have to log on to receive the message. Not only would Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon have not allowed them to do this, telling them not to reply would have been irrelevant by then because they would have already blown their position. The fact is, the only way they could have been found is if they replied- which they didn't.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 28th, 2001 03:17 AM
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Zareil
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Lets start again, geez this is fun...

ANH - yep it may just take him thirty seconds but maybe he wanted a bit of vengence, he is a scoundrel after all and you know maybe at this point he felt liking pulling the wings off the great big gnat

ESB - yeah but harmless nonsense

ROJ - OK you wanna go there, Ok I see the possibilities in your answer but as to where the At AT went, it went for a refit and rearmament and in between they took down the empire. I dont know maybe some ewoks took it for a joy ride

TPM - different technology - Besides which I said it was like an E-mail I didn't say it was one.

YOur still on my tale meet in the bar or Mikes. OK?

Old Post Mar 28th, 2001 03:33 AM
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Ushgarak
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Hmm, the Force is Strong with This One... I'm monitoring Mike's constantly for your presence.

Thanks for yout input,people. More questions soon!


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 28th, 2001 03:38 AM
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queeq
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ANH: the difference between Tatooine and the TIE's is that the SD's were always BEHIND the Falcon. Making the jump to hyperspace with these gnat-like Tie's buzzing around you is a different story, when you make the jump and one flies in front ouf you and "this trip would be over pretty quick, wouldn't it?"

ESB- great way of movie making, covering up that time frame. It only become a problem when you start thinking about it logically, but, in the spirit of the great late Sir Alfred Hitchcock, logic is irrelevant to good storytelling as long as you get your audience to experience the ordeals of the main characters. And we did or we wouldn't be here.

ROTJ - I go for the joyride theory

TPM - still flawed, so be it. Not TM only flaw after all.

Back to the bar!


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Old Post Mar 28th, 2001 02:22 PM
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Zareil
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Right with the joyride theory I produced do you tihnk it really was the ewoks or do you tihnk some of the empire got a bit bored and thought as nothing seemed to be happening that no one would notice if they took it out for a bit of a spin around the moon? Personnally I reckon thats a tricky one...

Old Post Mar 29th, 2001 03:16 AM
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Edna Witch
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...


He couldnt jump to hyperspace to get away from the tie fighters as he needed time to plot a course before he could jump or he would go sailing inot a star or something.


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2001 11:40 PM
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Ushgarak
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Re: ...


I'll say it again... if he thouight he could do it in ESB, then he could do it in ANH... the idea he was worried about a TIE in his flight path makes no sense at all, really... besides which he had plenty of time to programme to co-ords before the TIES'arrived (he had time to brag, after all)


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 30th, 2001 12:41 AM
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Edna Witch
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...


Yes but in ESB they had been trying to fix the hyperdrive for ages before they had actually tried to jump so they had had plenty of time to plot a course where as in ANH they had only just lifted off out of mos Eisley and needed a few more minutes to plot a course.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2001 03:34 AM
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