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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » The truth behind Jedi vanishing at death!


The truth behind Jedi vanishing at death!
Started by: Darth Heinous

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Darth Heinous
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The truth behind Jedi vanishing at death!


George Lucas was originally going to have Ben "return" in episode 6 shortly before Luke confronted Darth Vader and Darth Sidious/Palpatine. Ben was ghost to appear before Luke, then his ghost form would become "flesh and blood" again. Ben (and Yoda's ghost) was to help Luke battle Darth Sidious during the Force Lightning attack. At the end of the movie Yoda and Anakin Skywalker were to appear as ghosts (which they did), then regain their flesh again. This was in the orignal script of episode 6. The Return Of the Jedi script was rewritten several times as George Lucas threw ideas he didn't like and replaced them with better ones (as he often does). This idea of Jedi returning after being killed is too farfetched. Not that I don't like it, it just takes away too much. George wanted to make the confrontation much more dramatic. He did so completely by dumping the idea of Ben returning "in the flesh" and later dumping the idea of Ben and Yoda's ghost's jumping into the confrontation. It made Luke character more independent and powerful. He triumphed by himself (okay, with the help of the "returned" Anakin Skywalker) and the Sith were totally defeated. Master Qui-Gon Jinn didn't vanish because . . . it wasn't in the script (literally)! Now, if Master Jinn will return as a ghost to guide Ben (and maybe Anakin) I do not know. It depends on George Lucas and how he wants the story.

Old Post Dec 25th, 2000 07:22 PM
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Tom Gon Jinn
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He probably will. Although, maybe Lucas just wanted Qui Gon to say something to Obi Wan before he died, so that was why he didn't dissapear.

Old Post Dec 28th, 2000 01:31 AM
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queeq
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Yoda said something right before he died. No, Lucas definately wants to expand on that disappearing act. He said so in several interviews. We'll find out more about it in the Ep2 and 3.

queeq out


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2000 04:35 AM
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Gundark
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You're right queeq. Yoda said "skywalker" with his dying breath. And I bet that smelled just wonderful. Hehehe. stick out tongue


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Old Post Jan 4th, 2001 05:36 PM
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UnknownBountyHunter
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laughing out loud Gundark your too much. I personally think GL is going to lay some goodies on us for Ep. II. As with the after death thing, the main reason he wouldn't have them come back to life, is (As Dim's Old Sig but it so mildly). He is merely a softie right now, and him allowing Jedi to return to life would make him an Ewok! People would get the impression "What a kids flick" or "He isn't man enough to have someone die" type of deal, so he stuck with his instincts and just had their "Spirit" continue with the epic. Great Job GL, I salute you! smile


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Old Post Jan 6th, 2001 09:52 AM
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Gundark
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Obviously Ben HAD to come back in ghost form in order to explain his "certain point of view" poodoo he laid on Luke in ANH. I don't think any Jedi should ever return to flesh and blood, that's just too incredible, even for SW. Actually a ghost form can explain a lot of things that could otherwise only be explained in a novel...what was actually intended in a situation or what a particular character was thinking.


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Old Post Jan 13th, 2001 03:04 AM
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krado7000
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one theory someone told me was that inorder for a jedi to reapear in a ghost form they had to learn how to do it by using the force, yoda taught kenobi how to do it sometime between episode 2 and 3, also anakin knew how to do it, qui-gon had never learnt how to.

Old Post Feb 7th, 2001 06:56 AM
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Dim
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Yeah I had heard that before..though it would seem like something that more jedi would know..maybe it's only for the most powerful of jedi


BTW welcome to the board, krado smile .


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Old Post Feb 7th, 2001 07:38 AM
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krautrocker
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ben returning in ep 5


I am sure I have read somewhere that the main reason why obi wan returned in ep 5 as a ghost was because guiness was a bit peed he was being killed off and would only agree to do the film if he could come back in ep5 and 6. I also seem to remember the same artical saying this is how alec guiness also negotiated a percentage of the merchadise as payment. Clever clever man.

Old Post Feb 7th, 2001 04:47 PM
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krado7000
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thanks dim, im not sure i believe that theroy either cause as u say surly more jedi must have known.

krautrocker i think guiness instead of being paid up front was offered 10% of the merchandise as payment or something like that, not a bad business move, harrison ford also had a similar deal i think.

Old Post Feb 7th, 2001 09:10 PM
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Ushgarak
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Whoa! I think it is vitally important that Anakin does NOT know of the 'ghost trick'! If he did, then Vader would have known what Obi-Wan did after the duel on the Death Star- hence the "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" line. It is clear that Vader is quite confused by what happened, and by extension the Jedi as a whole don't know.

However- that leaves the question, how did the returned Anakin manage to do it at the end of ROTJ? This is a mystery. Perhaps it will be answerd later, or perhaps it's just a matter of "spiritual strength" or something.

But Vader does NOT know!


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Old Post Feb 8th, 2001 02:39 AM
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finti
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I read someplace that Yoda thaught Obi Wan the trick of dissappering and reappering after death I think you have to be very strong with the force to do this "trick".

Old Post Feb 8th, 2001 09:26 PM
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queeq
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How does one learn that? Sounds like you only have once chance at trying if it works.

queeq abides


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Old Post Feb 9th, 2001 03:27 AM
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Coreworld
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It has been said that it is all about maintaining your identity within the force after your physical being has ended.....No, i don't know what it means either! smile

Old Post Feb 10th, 2001 04:38 AM
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Admiral Kettch
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A jedi twi'lek named Dashara'cor disappears in the NJO series, as well. Although Lucas could easily ignore that.

Old Post Feb 12th, 2001 01:44 AM
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queeq
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I think it has to do with being in tune with the Force. Qui-Gon was defiant, it is clear he made a mistake about Anakin. However noble he was and strong with the Force, he was not really one with it when he died. Fire has to somehow purge Jedi or something.

I think that "one with the Force" idea is what OB1 and Yoda learned during their hermit days.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2001 01:14 AM
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Ushgarak
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I don't think Qui-Gon was wrong. Dying was a big mistake, of course, but his contention that Anakin's future was "uncertain" rather than definitely dangerous was probably true. Qui-Gon was going to make sure that Anakin turned out good. But Obi-Wan, in the promise to his dying master, thought he could do it as well ('as Yoda instructed me...'), but Obi-Wan just wasn't as wise as Qui-Gon (ironically, seeing the faith Qui-Gon has in him)- not until it is too late (becuase he's clearly wise by the OT, of course, but also greatly disillusioned).

George Lucas says that even Yoda was in error in allowing the Anakin thing to happen. Qui-Gon probably planned even less on Yoda getting it wrong than he planned on dying against Maul! But I think it's unfair to say he clearly made a mistake. People just didn't live up to his legacy.


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"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

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Old Post Feb 13th, 2001 02:56 AM
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queeq
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Even Lucas said Qui-Gon was wrong. The fact that he didn't disappear at death makes clear he was not fully one with the Force. We may find that noble Qui-Gon was wrong without even knowing it. But only the next episodes will tell us.


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Old Post Feb 17th, 2001 04:59 AM
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Ushgarak
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That he doesn't disappear has nothing to do with his balance. As we have already established, disappearing into the Force is NOT the norm, and hence it is not a negative statement on him at all.

As for George Lucas saying Qui-Gon was 'wrong', this is a statement he also applies to Obi-Wan and Yoda. Obviously being wrong is in fashion if such unimpeachable people can be mistaken. They seemed to do fine when they died.

Besides, no matter which way you cut it, Anakin IS the Chosen One. If it wasn't for Qui-Gon, there would have been no-one to re-balance the Force, ever. It seems unfair to accuse Qui-Gon of error.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Feb 17th, 2001 05:35 AM
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queeq
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No it isn't. He should have known better to make OB1 swear to train the boy, as impetuous and inexperience as he was. OB1 hadn't even passed the trials yet!! Even Yoda disagreed about Anakin to be trained. So Qui-Gon was in error, so was OB1 but we already knew that from the OT.


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Old Post Feb 17th, 2001 06:54 PM
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